Domain / school abilities diminishing in usefulness


Races & Classes


Some SLAs granted by domains and schools remain useful a whole adventuring life, while others lose any real effectiveness very quickly.

Examples:

- Cause Fear, Death Domain, gained at level 2, useless at about level 5, when CR appropriate creatues break the 5 HD limit.

and

- Magic Weapon, War Domain, gained at level 2, useless at level 4 or 5, when fighting adventurers typically posess magic weapons.

vs.

- Protection from Law/Chaos/Evil/Good, gained at level 2, but ever more useful, as the number of mind controlling and summoned creatures increases and will saves of fighters/rogues tend to fail more and more often.

and

Divine Favor, Nobility Domain, starts as a very mediocre buff (spending one round to gain a +1 bonus...), but really shines in mid- to high-level, when the clerics ability to outshine the fighter is limiting by... the number of available Divine Favors!

I'd be happy to see more SLAs with a more or less equivalent usefulness while gaining levels. Change Cause Fear to Doom or Detect Undead, Magic Weapon to Bane or Entropic Shield.

The Wizard School often suffer from the same problem. Summon Monster I (Conjuration) starts out as a mediocre, but useful combat spell, but later is useful only to disarm traps (which can even be seen as an abuse of the ability). Ray of Enfeeblement (Necromancy) however starts useful and gets even better, especially with the new Power Attack limits.

Shadow Lodge

The way I see it almost all of the 'at will' abilities and 2nd level abilities are fairly weak and limited after about 8th-10th level. The damage dealt by touch attacks is too small to significantly anything but the weakest creatures. However once you get past 8th to 10th level a wizard or cleric should have enough spells that these abilities are superfluous. They are useful for small encounters or for their utility functions. Keep in mind these abilities are not meant to supplant spells but to give a little extra staying power to the casters. At higher levels staying power isn't as much of a problem.

As an example if a higher level wizard encounters a couple Kobolds who don't know enough to run away he can dispatch them without using any spells. I do agree that the SLAs should all be roughly equivalent. But you have to consider the whole package, not just the individual powers.

The Wizard School often suffer from the same problem. Summon Monster I (Conjuration) starts out as a mediocre, but useful combat spell, but later is useful only to disarm traps (which can even be seen as an abuse of the ability). Ray of Enfeeblement (Necromancy) however starts useful and gets even better, especially with the new Power Attack limits.

I have to disagree a little on Summon Monster I, overall not stellar but sometimes it's nice to have an extra pair of hands or an extra flanker. Once I used a pink poodle (hey it's celestial!) to trip up the BBEG who was about to escape. DM was not happy about that.

The low level powers don't need to be super useful throughout but roughly balanced from one school to the next (or if one because really worthless maybe a slightly better higher power.


0gre wrote:
The way I see it almost all of the 'at will' abilities and 2nd level abilities are fairly weak and limited after about 8th-10th level.

That's mostly true, but some keep getting better and better -- notably the ones that give a +1 bonus per class level (Diviner's Fortune, Touch of Good). A +20 bonus on skill checks/saving throws/attack rolls is nothing to sneeze at; you're basically getting the effect of the 8th level spell Moment of Prescience.


@ Ogre
Yes, even the lowly Summon Monster I can be useful occasionally - if only for disarming traps. And Scare can be useful to get rid of a city guard without killing him or using valuable resources.

But compare these uses to Cure Light Wounds or Divine Favor. How often will these go unused compared to Summon Monster I?

I don't say that the 2nd level SLAs should be increased in power, only that they should be checked against each other with respect to usefulness at mid- to high levels.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Evil-Wizards wrote:
- Cause Fear, Death Domain, gained at level 2, useless at about level 5, when CR appropriate creatues break the 5 HD limit.

Unless they remove the HD limit.

Evil-Wizards wrote:
- Magic Weapon, War Domain, gained at level 2, useless at level 4 or 5, when fighting adventurers typically posess magic weapons.

Unless they change Magic Weapon to stack with existing enchantment bonuses.

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