Perhaps we could assemble a list of spells / items that might need revision? I propose keeping it short and free of discussion; if there's a topic worth discussing, a new thread should be opened for that.
Planar Binding (+variants)
Possible problems:
- HD =/= CR =/= usefulness (e. g. Lantern Archon, Efreet)
- abuse of templates (summon a half-fiend-half-dragon-paragon ogre)
- body source for undead creation (animate aforementioned ogre)
Possible fixes:
- limit to CR
- only creatures from Summon Monster can be called
- make Binding a variant use of Summon Monster (calling for 24 h instead of summoning for some rounds)
- costly material component
[b]Planar Ally (+variants)[b]
- pretty much as Planar Binding
[b]Animate Dead / Necromancy[b]
Possible problems:
- Limitation to HD has little relation to usefulness of Undead (e. g.: Necromancer 5 animates Pit Fiend Skeleton)
- High-level necromancers have little use for Skeletons/Zombies and no practical mean of controlling other undead
Possible fix:
- give Skeleton/Zombie template non-fixes CRs, then tie limits of Animate Dead to CR
- make undead created with Create (Greater) Undead fall under the animation control limit
- limit HD of creatable undead to Caster Level for skeletons, Caster Level x 2 for zombies; remove limit of 20 HD for skeletons/zombies
[b]Rope Trick[b]
Possible problems:
- very powerful for 2nd level spell (compare to Leomund's huts)
Possible fix:
- reduce duration to 10 min./level
- raise to level 5
- costly material component or focus
---
[b]Animated Shield[b]
Possible problems:
- screws balance between one- and two-handed weapons/two-weapon-fighting
Possible fix:
- remove item
[b]Bag of Holding & Teleport[b]
Possible problems:
- Bag of Holding can be used to practically increase capacity of Teleport spells (army climbs into bag, wizard takes bag, teleports, army climbs out of bag)
Possible fix:
- Creatures cannot enter Bag of Holding
- Teleport limit counts creatures inside carried equipment
---
That's all from me for now. What can you think of?
First time poster on these boards, so first of all: Hello, everyone! :-)
I've read the Pathfinder Alpha releases 1 and 2 with great excitement, as they seem to fix exactly those balancing and gameplay issues my group has had with D&D3.5 so far. However...
I'm concerned with the current mechanic of controlling undead via Channelling Negativ Energy (p. 60).
The undead receives a saving throw against the control, which IMHO is a great improvement to the unnecessarily complex and weird HD-check of D&D3.5.
Hit dice are, as has been stated over and over again, not a good criterium for any mechanism, as HD - especially with undead - are no indication of challenge rating. E. g.: an Ettin Zombie (20 HD) is near impossible to turn at levels appropriate to its challenge rating.
Half the problem has been fixed by Pathfinder Alpha 2. However, the number of undead controlled still refers to hit dice. This indirectly makes undead with more HD than the cleric immune to controlling.
A Shadow (3 HD) or Spectre (7 HD) is much, much more powerful and useful for the adventurer / villain cleric than even the mentioned 20-HD-zombie.
Therefore, I propose changing the HD limit to a challenge rating limit.
---
In a related matter, undead are now allowed a daily check to break free of the control. This is a serious hindrance in comparison to D&D3.5, where an undead, once controlled, remained under the clerics control until released. With the 20-always-saves mechanic, even a 1 HD skeleton will have broken free after a month.
From a balance perspective, I see a problem in this. Clerics channeling positive energy receive buckets of "free" healing in comparison to D&D3.5, while those channeling negative energy get a mediocre damage dealing effect - undead clerics with strictly undead companions / minions excluded.
In addition, "evil" clerics get a serious new flaw in their signature ability, and can hardly rely on controlled undead anymore.
I'd suggest simply removing the automatically renewed saves, and only keeping those caused by positive energy. This keeps a little excitement in controlling undead without crippling the ability.
Edit: Repost due to hungry internet locusts who devoured the first one.
@ Ogre
Yes, even the lowly Summon Monster I can be useful occasionally - if only for disarming traps. And Scare can be useful to get rid of a city guard without killing him or using valuable resources.
But compare these uses to Cure Light Wounds or Divine Favor. How often will these go unused compared to Summon Monster I?
I don't say that the 2nd level SLAs should be increased in power, only that they should be checked against each other with respect to usefulness at mid- to high levels.
The idea behind the change in Pathfinder is very good - get rid of the variable bonus. I've scratched at least 2 mm of wood from our game table while the fighter's player pondered the pros and cons of a Power Attack+3 versus a Power Attack+8, then struggled (and failed over and over again) to correctly calculate his new attack bonus and damage. Appears easy enough, but hey, even easier is even better.
However...
Why take strength bonus as the limit? Why not a fixed amount, e. g. 5?
Strength can change during the adventuring day, a combat, even a single round. Enlarge Person, strength damage, Dispel on the Belt of Giant Strength, Bull's Strength - each time, you don't only have to re-calculate attack and damage, but also the effect of Power Attack.
With a fixed number, it's always (e. g.) -5 to hit, +5 to damage (+10 for two-handed), regardless what happens to your strength score.
I'd prefer that. And our game table, too, if it can feel pain. ;-)
Some SLAs granted by domains and schools remain useful a whole adventuring life, while others lose any real effectiveness very quickly.
Examples:
- Cause Fear, Death Domain, gained at level 2, useless at about level 5, when CR appropriate creatues break the 5 HD limit.
and
- Magic Weapon, War Domain, gained at level 2, useless at level 4 or 5, when fighting adventurers typically posess magic weapons.
vs.
- Protection from Law/Chaos/Evil/Good, gained at level 2, but ever more useful, as the number of mind controlling and summoned creatures increases and will saves of fighters/rogues tend to fail more and more often.
and
Divine Favor, Nobility Domain, starts as a very mediocre buff (spending one round to gain a +1 bonus...), but really shines in mid- to high-level, when the clerics ability to outshine the fighter is limiting by... the number of available Divine Favors!
I'd be happy to see more SLAs with a more or less equivalent usefulness while gaining levels. Change Cause Fear to Doom or Detect Undead, Magic Weapon to Bane or Entropic Shield.
The Wizard School often suffer from the same problem. Summon Monster I (Conjuration) starts out as a mediocre, but useful combat spell, but later is useful only to disarm traps (which can even be seen as an abuse of the ability). Ray of Enfeeblement (Necromancy) however starts useful and gets even better, especially with the new Power Attack limits.
First time poster on these boards, so first of all: Hello, everyone! :-)
I've read the Pathfinder Alpha releases 1 and 2 with great excitement, as they seem to fix exactly those balancing and gameplay issues my group has had with D&D3.5 so far. However...
I'm concerned with the current mechanic of controlling undead via Channelling Negativ Energy (p. 60).
The undead receives a saving throw against the control, which IMHO is a great improvement to the unnecessarily complex and weird HD-check of D&D3.5.
Hit dice are, as has been stated over and over again, not a good criterium for any mechanism, as HD - especially with undead - are no indication of challenge rating. E. g.: an Ettin Zombie (20 HD) is near impossible to turn at levels appropriate to its challenge rating.
Half the problem has been fixed by Pathfinder Alpha 2. However, the number of undead controlled still refers to hit dice. This indirectly makes undead with more HD than the cleric immune to controlling.
A Shadow (3 HD) or Spectre (7 HD) is much, much more powerful and useful for the adventurer / villain cleric than even the mentioned 20-HD-zombie.
Therefore, I propose changing the HD limit to a challenge rating limit.
---
In a related matter, undead are now allowed a daily check to break free of the control. This is a serious hindrance in comparison to D&D3.5, where an undead, once controlled, remained under the clerics control until released. With the 20-always-saves mechanic, even a 1 HD skeleton will have broken free after a month.
From a balance perspective, I see a problem in this. Clerics channeling positive energy receive buckets of "free" healing in comparison to D&D3.5, while those channeling negative energy get a mediocre damage dealing effect - undead clerics with strictly undead companions / minions excluded.
In addition, "evil" clerics get a serious new flaw in their signature ability, and can hardly rely on controlled undead anymore.
I'd suggest simply removing the automatically renewed saves, and only keeping those caused by positive energy. This keeps a little excitement in controlling undead without crippling the ability.
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