I understand that not everyone can be pleased with what's being done BUT really hope that the modifiers to ability scores get tweaked a bit.
Dwarves: The CON bonus and WIS bonus are fine. They are tough and strong-willed.
The CHA penalty, in the face of the 1/2 Orcs not taking a CHA penalty, doesn't make sense. Gruff and surly do not equate with a weak personality. Since they are short and stocky, please replace this with a DEX penalty.
Elves: No problems here.
Gnomes: The bonus to CON and penalty to STR are fine. They are short and, as such, lack the raw strength of taller races. They are also hardy folk.
The CHA bonus doesn't gel with me. Sure they are likeable or agreeable BUT that doesn't make them better leaders, commanders, inquisitors, orators or seducers. Since they are small and nimble-fingered (with their love of gemcraft, alchemy and other technical pursuits), a DEX bonus would make much more sense.
Half-Elves: No problems here.
Half-Orcs: No problems here (except in relation to Dwarves... see above).
Halfings: I have no problems with the DEX bonus or STR penalty as both have a long association with halflings.
My problem lies with the INT bonus. Halflings, in Tolkien (please don't flame me yet) and in AD&D, were surprisingly resilient in mind and body. In AD&D halflings got bonuses versus magic and poison. With this in mind, I'd rather halflings received a +2 to CON or WIS in place of intelligence. Based on the Pathfinder write-up, I'd lean towards WIS, as it would help them with perception checks and make them more intuitive.
Humans: No problems here.
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I understand that not everyone can be pleased with what's being done BUT really hope that the modifiers to ability scores get tweaked a bit.
Dwarves: The CON bonus and WIS bonus are fine. They are tough and strong-willed.
The CHA penalty, in the face of the 1/2 Orcs not taking a CHA penalty, doesn't make sense. Gruff and surly do not equate with a weak personality. Since they are short and stocky, please replace this with a DEX penalty.Elves: No problems here.
Gnomes: The bonus to CON and penalty to STR are fine. They are short and, as such, lack the raw strength of taller races. They are also hardy folk.
The CHA bonus doesn't gel with me. Sure they are likeable or agreeable BUT that doesn't make them better leaders, commanders, inquisitors, orators or seducers. Since they are small and nimble-fingered (with their love of gemcraft, alchemy and other technical pursuits), a DEX bonus would make much more sense.Half-Elves: No problems here.
Half-Orcs: No problems here (except in relation to Dwarves... see above).
Halfings: I have no problems with the DEX bonus or STR penalty as both have a long association with halflings.
My problem lies with the INT bonus. Halflings, in Tolkien (please don't flame me yet) and in AD&D, were surprisingly resilient in mind and body. In AD&D halflings got bonuses versus magic and poison. With this in mind, I'd rather halflings received a +2 to CON or WIS in place of intelligence. Based on the Pathfinder write-up, I'd lean towards WIS, as it would help them with perception checks and make them more intuitive.Humans: No problems here.
You have to look at the synergy of the favored class with some of the things you are saying here.
If you change Gnomes and remove thier chr. benefit then your going to make being a Bard a tough row to hoe.
You have to look at the synergy of the favored class with some of the things you are saying here.If you change Gnomes and remove thier chr. benefit then your going to make being a Bard a tough row to hoe.
I don't think that racial mods should be driven by favored class choices and visa versa.
Racial mods to ability scores should make sense in the context of that race's write-up and in relation to the other races' bonuses and penalties.
Besides, getting rid of a CHR bonus doesn't make gnome bards any less viable. A bonus to DEX will help with REF, AC, finesse and ranged attacks and DEX-related skills.
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You have to look at the synergy of the favored class with some of the things you are saying here.If you change Gnomes and remove thier chr. benefit then your going to make being a Bard a tough row to hoe.
I don't think that racial mods should be driven by favored class choices and visa versa.
Racial mods to ability scores should make sense in the context of that race's write-up and in relation to the other races' bonuses and penalties.
Besides, getting rid of a CHR bonus doesn't make gnome bards any less viable. A bonus to DEX will help with REF, AC, finesse and ranged attacks and DEX-related skills.
I do think that favored class should be taken into consideration. There should be natural reasons that the race has a specific favored class. That said I think I agree with what you said about Dwarves but I am not sure about Halflings - Intelligence makes some sense to me. I think rogues in general and to be good at their crafts should be intelligent (boosts those skills). I think I will remake my Halfling Rogue today to Pathfinder RPG as a test case.
Gnomes I am not sure I have an opinion on having never played one and only had one in any group I have played with. I never liked the whole Gnome Illusionist thing. I have no opinion on the Gnome Bard thing at this point.
I do think that favored class should be taken into consideration. There should be natural reasons that the race has a specific favored class. That said I think I agree with what you said about Dwarves but I am not sure about Halflings - Intelligence makes some sense to me. I think rogues in general and to be good at their crafts should be intelligent (boosts those skills). I think I will remake my Halfling Rogue today to Pathfinder RPG as a test case.Gnomes I am not sure I have an opinion on having never played one and only had one in any group I have played with. I never liked the whole Gnome Illusionist thing. I have no opinion on the Gnome Bard thing at this point.
I think it should be taken into consideration too... but shouldn't be the chief basis for ability score mods that don't really make sense.
I don't see gnomes as having a stronger presence/ability to influence other than any other race.
As for halflings... I guess I'm in the minority here. I like old-school halflings and would like to see Paizo return them to their roots (or move them closer to those roots).
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You have to look at the synergy of the favored class with some of the things you are saying here.If you change Gnomes and remove thier chr. benefit then your going to make being a Bard a tough row to hoe.
I don't think that racial mods should be driven by favored class choices and visa versa.
Racial mods to ability scores should make sense in the context of that race's write-up and in relation to the other races' bonuses and penalties.
Besides, getting rid of a CHR bonus doesn't make gnome bards any less viable. A bonus to DEX will help with REF, AC, finesse and ranged attacks and DEX-related skills.
I do think that favored class should be taken into consideration. There should be natural reasons that the race has a specific favored class. That said I think I agree with what you said about Dwarves but I am not sure about Halflings - Intelligence makes some sense to me. I think rogues in general and to be good at their crafts should be intelligent (boosts those skills). I think I will remake my Halfling Rogue today to Pathfinder RPG as a test case.
Gnomes I am not sure I have an opinion on having never played one and only had one in any group I have played with. I never liked the whole Gnome Illusionist thing. I have no opinion on the Gnome Bard thing at this point.
I think you make a valid point but then you run aground with backwards compatability. I'm just pointing out the risks, not nocking any one for opinion.
But this is what you should consider. Why have a favored class at all if your race doesn't give you any advantage with it or as strong of advantage as other races. IMHO there should be a ballance there, so far I have liked what I have seen.
I have said in the past that I would handle the stats and favored classes differnatly if I was doing it all over, however I'm not the one in the drivers seat on this one so I'm going with the current flow.
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I understand that not everyone can be pleased with what's being done BUT really hope that the modifiers to ability scores get tweaked a bit.
Dwarves: The CON bonus and WIS bonus are fine. They are tough and strong-willed.
The CHA penalty, in the face of the 1/2 Orcs not taking a CHA penalty, doesn't make sense. Gruff and surly do not equate with a weak personality. Since they are short and stocky, please replace this with a DEX penalty.Elves: No problems here.
Gnomes: The bonus to CON and penalty to STR are fine. They are short and, as such, lack the raw strength of taller races. They are also hardy folk.
The CHA bonus doesn't gel with me. Sure they are likeable or agreeable BUT that doesn't make them better leaders, commanders, inquisitors, orators or seducers. Since they are small and nimble-fingered (with their love of gemcraft, alchemy and other technical pursuits), a DEX bonus would make much more sense.Half-Elves: No problems here.
Half-Orcs: No problems here (except in relation to Dwarves... see above).
Halfings: I have no problems with the DEX bonus or STR penalty as both have a long association with halflings.
My problem lies with the INT bonus. Halflings, in Tolkien (please don't flame me yet) and in AD&D, were surprisingly resilient in mind and body. In AD&D halflings got bonuses versus magic and poison. With this in mind, I'd rather halflings received a +2 to CON or WIS in place of intelligence. Based on the Pathfinder write-up, I'd lean towards WIS, as it would help them with perception checks and make them more intuitive.Humans: No problems here.
Agree, agree and agree.
Favored Class should NOT give a character more hit points! On the other hand, what Chris mentions makes a lot of sense.
Here's what I think:
Dwarves: I concur, a Dex penalty may make more sense that a Cha one.
Elves: Intelligence does fit maybe, but I think Wisdom may be an even better fit. Elves are in tune with the world around them and perceptive.
Gnomes: I think Gnomes should get a bonus to Intelligence due to they're
cleverness and cunning.
I always have houseruled dwarves to get a Dex penalty, the Cha penalty never sat well with me. As for the gnomes, I don't have much of a problem with that, they are very fey-like and thus have a natural "presence" about them. I've always seen halflings (not hobbits) as being very clever and mischievous and thus are normally rogues. As for the favored class debate, I think that they should follow from the ability scores, its what they are naturally good at so it makes sense and the bonus HP is small, but still a nice perk for following your natural tendencies.
I like most of the ability score mods but the two I strongly disagree with are
Halfling: Bonus to Dex/Int, should be Dex/Wis
Now, halflings have often been portrayed as clever (Wisdom), but not book smart. And halflings have also usually been low on the list for a wizard choice, but this makes them perfect wizards - they're not super in combat anyway, and I think this combo will cause an unpredecented explosion of halfling wizards. Now, halfling clerics, I've seen more of. Even if half of them are clerics of Brandobaris!
Plus, it's exactly the same as elf stat bonuses, which is lame.
Half-orc: Bonus to Str/Wis, should be Str/Con
I know it's doubling up on physical stats, but that's all half-orcs have going for them. And they're half human (average stats) and half orc, and in 3.5 SRD orc stats are Str 17, Dex 11, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 7, Cha 6. The words "orc" and "wise" have seldom been used in the same sentence throughout history. In addition, though half-orc clerics aren't unknown, I certainly haven't seen bunches.
Half-orc: Bonus to Str/Wis, should be Str/Con
I know it's doubling up on physical stats, but that's all half-orcs have going for them. And they're half human (average stats) and half orc, and in 3.5 SRD orc stats are Str 17, Dex 11, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 7, Cha 6. The words "orc" and "wise" have seldom been used in the same sentence throughout history. In addition, though half-orc clerics aren't unknown, I certainly haven't seen bunches.
I agree the bonus to Str/Con makes more sense than Str/Wis (though I assume the rationale behind the Wisdom bonus is due to them growing up having to look out for themselves and spot prejudice coming).
Slightly off topic, I definitely don't agree with Half-Orcs getting no penalties to Charisma while Dwarves do. Dwarves may be dour, but does this make them less likable and less trusted than a half-orc?? I have trouble swallowing that.
I kinda get that you are looking for balance in the character classes, but it really does make sense for half-orcs to have penalties to both intelligence & charisma. If this is not an option (or even if it is), I would agree with a suggestion above to change the dwarf penalty from Cha to Dex. Their love of armour and their high constiution makes them less focused on getting out of harms way, and more focused on absorbing damage and then dealing more back.
I agree the bonus to Str/Con makes more sense than Str/Wis (though I assume the rationale behind the Wisdom bonus is due to them growing up having to look out for themselves and spot prejudice coming).
Slightly off topic, I definitely don't agree with Half-Orcs getting no penalties to Charisma while Dwarves do. Dwarves may be dour, but does this make them less likable and less trusted than a half-orc?? I have trouble swallowing that.
I kinda get that you are looking for balance in the character classes, but it really does make sense for half-orcs to have penalties to both intelligence & charisma. If this is not an option (or even if it is), I would agree with a suggestion above to change the dwarf penalty from Cha to Dex. Their love of armour and their high constiution makes them less focused on getting out of harms way, and more focused on absorbing damage and then dealing more back.
Exactly why dwarves should take a hit to DEX rather than CHR!
I also agree that Half-Orcs would be better off with a bonus to STR and CON.
I can accept gnomes getting a bonus to CHA (I think) but dwarves, 1/2orcs and halflings should be changed... please.
I'm surprised I can't find a thread about this, but isn't anyone concerned about the two +2s for every race? Ability score inflation seems to have led to everyone having at least one 18, then usually a 19 or 20, but at least you couldn't have two 20s without cheating.
(I suppose it's not a new problem, many more than 1% of fighters had 18/100 STR in AD&D.)
Of course, the rules don't say how to build characters yet, so I'm assuming something as close to a 3d6 method as intellectual property law will allow. If it's 4d4 then nevermind.
If it's point buy then it seems kinda pointless especially for humans except for the aforementioned two 20s thing, which I consider a problem with the system.
I agree on halflings and gnomes. I don't know why gnomes would get cha instead of int or while halflings would get int instead of wis. I guess They're trying to differentiate them from the stereotype gnomes and halflings, but I kind of like those stereotypes.
I'm surprised I can't find a thread about this, but isn't anyone concerned about the two +2s for every race? Ability score inflation seems to have led to everyone having at least one 18, then usually a 19 or 20, but at least you couldn't have two 20s without cheating.
(I suppose it's not a new problem, many more than 1% of fighters had 18/100 STR in AD&D.)
Of course, the rules don't say how to build characters yet, so I'm assuming something as close to a 3d6 method as intellectual property law will allow. If it's 4d4 then nevermind.
If it's point buy then it seems kinda pointless especially for humans except for the aforementioned two 20s thing, which I consider a problem with the system.
I know what you mean, but I'm actually not concerned about it. One problem with 3rd edition was that everything got to be better than the core races. That and building a caster or multiple attribute character was really difficult without a ridiculous amount of magical items. I think this fixes that (as I'm part of the low magic item crowd)