Problem I see is an entangling attack doesnt really work like a grapple. Hard to pin someone with a lasso. I would actually say entangle should be a seperate maneuver.
As for Strength, it should still be a factor along with Size. If you lasso an ogre, it is more an advantage to him than you. Unless you have several friends using the same tactic, he is going to sling you around like a paddleball.
-Weylin Stormcrowe
I think that factor of STR would come in if you're dragging some around (or trying to), but whether or not they can bust out of whatever you entangle them with doesn't depend on your strength. If I toss a lasso around someone and they try to break free of it, it's the rope's tensile strength that's going to stop them, not my arm strength.
But yeah, I can see your point about making it a whole new manoeuvre. I just like to use existing rules whenever I can.
I agree we should modify existing rules where possible, but at a certain point modification becomes a new rule unto itself. At that point it needs to be a new maneuver. I personally see a lot of possibility for new maneuvers with this system that would have been too cumbersom in 3 or 3.5
-Weylin Stormcrowe
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How about creating a 'Capturing' maneuver. It would prevent the victim of leaving a certain radius around you. I would also add harpoons and maybe webs to the list of usable weapons. It would also be nice to have the options of forcing the enemy to move toward you, either by pulling back the weapon or by moving away from the enemy. The enemy could either try to resist (which would result in a CMB roll), use his action to move toward you or do something else and be moved toward you while taking some kind of damage (for being dragged on the floor or from barbed weapons like harpoons.)
Well, what about BOLA'S? They seemed to have been missed in this post and they also seem to be a unique weapon unto themselves in many ways (closest similarity being perhaps a Net?)
Once they are released obviously the strength of the attacker is of no import whatsoever (but could it be important in how hard they are thrown?)
And although Pathfinder Beta seems to make many Combat Maneuvers difficult to impossible, I think this weapon deserves some attention still. If there was a weapon bonus to CMB to trip with a Bola, what might it be? +3, +5?
Also, once someone hits with a Bola shouldn't the victim then become Entangled as well? This only seems to make complete sense to me based on the nature of the weapon.
Opinions?
This is the DM's ruling in one of his games I'm in. Sounds perfect to me:
Bolas: 1d4dam (plus Trip: CMB=BAB+Str+Dex)-Can't be thrown into melee and must have line of sight unobstructed view to target. A DC12 escape artist to work it loose,takes victim 1d3+1 rounds of full round actions to unwrap from around them and whilst entangled they can move only 5'/round(hopping or crawling)
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This is the DM's ruling in one of his games I'm in. Sounds perfect to me:
Bolas: 1d4dam (plus Trip: CMB=BAB+Str+Dex)-Can't be thrown into melee and must have line of sight unobstructed view to target. A DC12 escape artist to work it loose,takes victim 1d3+1 rounds of full round actions to unwrap from around them and whilst entangled they can move only 5'/round(hopping or crawling)
I like the idea of the Escape Artist check to get out of the Bolas. It makes more sense than using the grapple rules and you can base the DC on the weapon used. Plus it could default to a base Str check.
Perhaps the specific weapons should have a modifier to the escape artist DC? Bolas are specifically meant for this purpose, tossing a spiked chain at someone is close but not quite. Maybe the DC is the combat manuver modifier+10? Standard or full round action to get free? Bolas add +2 or +4? This could represent the extra time mechanic.
Just a thought.
Perhaps the specific weapons should have a modifier to the escape artist DC?
All the ROPE-LIKE weapons (Spiked chain, Chain, Whip, Bolas, Net) have been needing some love in this area for a long time. No one particularly takes one of these weapons because they're cool, they usually take them for the UTILITY they are SUPPOSE to provide; Trip, Disarm, Grapple, Entangle, etc.
E.N. Arsenal put out a pretty good series of netbooks covering most of the weapons. I purchased three of them... Whips, Spiked Chains, & Flails/Maces/Morningstars. One of the feats I remember from the Whips book was something like "3RD HAND" in which it allowed you to do Indiana Jones type stunts, Snatching, Grappling, Swinging, etc. with a whip after a few prerequisites. If the weapons are going to have damage restrictions or lack of damage at all, they should do more minor utility at least.
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All the ROPE-LIKE weapons (Spiked chain, Chain, Whip, Bolas, Net) have been needing some love in this area for a long time. No one particularly takes one of these weapons because they're cool, they usually take them for the UTILITY they are SUPPOSE to provide; Trip, Disarm, Grapple, Entangle, etc.E.N. Arsenal put out a pretty good series of netbooks covering most of the weapons. I purchased three of them... Whips, Spiked Chains, & Flails/Maces/Morningstars. One of the feats I remember from the Whips book was something like "3RD HAND" in which it allowed you to do Indiana Jones type stunts, Snatching, Grappling, Swinging, etc. with a whip after a few prerequisites. If the weapons are going to have damage restrictions or lack of damage at all, they should do more minor utility at least.
I have the netbooks for Spiked Chain, Whips and Shields, and they are pretty good.