Hello,
i´m curios if anybody can tell me if in the finalversion of the Pathfinder RPG everything (Playershandbook,Dungeon Master Manuel and Monster Manuel)will be included in that book?
If so how are they going to do it?The MM already consists of 416 pages (german version) and so on......
Or will there be a standalone MM from Paizo someday? I mean the Pathfinder RPG already doesn´t work with Monsters in MMx because the classes are way to strong!
I think this is a question everybody wants to know here.
Greetings,
Julien
PHB and DMG MM will be a diff book
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PHB and MM in PRPG. Monsters will come later.
As far as the original MMs not working, they work fine. If you find your players are tearing through the original monsters then just give the monsters some additional hitpoints, +1/2 hp usually works well and when they're in the bonus HP range they can die anytime you want them too.
If extra HP doesn't work for you, just increase the CR by 1 or 2 with more minions.
CEO
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PHB and MM in the first round.
As far as the original MMs not working, they work fine. If you find your players are tearing through the original monsters then just give the monsters some additional hitpoints, +1/2 hp usually works well.
Actually, that should be the PHB and DMG that we are going to be combining into one book. We have always planned to release a MM-type book separately.
-Lisa
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PHB and MM in the first round.
As far as the original MMs not working, they work fine. If you find your players are tearing through the original monsters then just give the monsters some additional hitpoints, +1/2 hp usually works well.
Actually, that should be the PHB and DMG that we are going to be combining into one book. We have always planned to release a MM-type book separately.
-Lisa
PLEASE tell me you're going to include at least some of the monsters from the APs & Modules in it (I could see leaving the heralds of the various deities out, but things like the Nosferatu, Shining Child of Thassilon, and faceless stalker the like should be in there. Paizo's original stuff is of exceedingly high quality and deserves to be in a core book, previous edition presence be damned.
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PLEASE tell me you're going to include at least some of the monsters from the APs & Modules in it (I could see leaving the heralds of the various deities out, but things like the Nosferatu, Shining Child of Thassilon, and faceless stalker the like should be in there. Paizo's original stuff is of exceedingly high quality and deserves to be in a core book, previous edition presence be damned.
Considering not every 3.5 MM monster is OGC, there might be some extra space...
I dont mind some new monsters thrown in..But Id like to see every monster from the SRD appear in the pathfinder version of the MM.
PLEASE dont leave anything out.
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PLEASE tell me you're going to include at least some of the monsters from the APs & Modules in it (I could see leaving the heralds of the various deities out, but things like the Nosferatu, Shining Child of Thassilon, and faceless stalker the like should be in there. Paizo's original stuff is of exceedingly high quality and deserves to be in a core book, previous edition presence be damned.Considering not every 3.5 MM monster is OGC, there might be some extra space...
Let's hope so. I can do without beholders (never used them), gith (never used them), and mind flayers (have the book already).
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I dont mind some new monsters thrown in..But Id like to see every monster from the SRD appear in the pathfinder version of the MM.
PLEASE dont leave anything out.
See, as far as I'm concerned, you could cut:
Achaierai
Athatch
Behir
Darkmantle
Delver
Shocker Lizard
The Tarrasque
Tojanida
Triton
and all of the "bigger" versions of everything (the advanced barghest, nightmare, lammasu, mummy, etc.) and the book would still be just fine. I don't mind if those monsters above stay in, but aside from the darkmantle I've never used any of them, and a couple of them are so utterly ridiculous that I can't envision under what circumstances I would. The same goes for a number of monsters from the Tome of Horrors. I can see why they reprinted everything, but I'm never going to USE a flumph for anything. A dracolisk, however is effing scary. Fire breath, wings, AND a petrifying gaze? Which way were the hills again? I like my monsters more serious in tone and dangerous-seeming rather than ridiculous (with the notable exception of goblins, who in my homebrew setting act like a huge, bickering family from Brooklyn with squeaky voices.) This is one of the reasons why I've liked so many of the paizo monsters; Carrionswarms, Hounds of Tindalos, and Shining Children of Thassilon are all scary for reasons that have nothing to do with their CR.
As far as the original MMs not working, they work fine.
The Pathfinder Critter Compendium is still necessary, since PF RPG is supposed to be playable even if you don't have any of the old books.
By the way: Alpha 2 is supposed to have a monster conversion and creation guide in it.
See, as far as I'm concerned, you could cut:
Achaierai
Athatch
Behir
Darkmantle
Delver
Shocker Lizard
The Tarrasque
Tojanida
Tritonand all of the "bigger" versions of everything (the advanced barghest, nightmare, lammasu, mummy, etc.) and the book would still be just fine.
No, it wouldn't, since it could not replace the monster section of the SRD due to being incomplete.
I'm hunting my players through Hook Mountain Massacre, and it often uses Ogre Barbarians - and I'm quite sure it's not the only instance where the advanced versions were used in some adventure module.
And the Tarrasque needs to stay in, too, if only to let Keyra Palin's ship have a name that makes sense ;-P
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CEO
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And the Tarrasque needs to stay in, too, if only to let Keyra Palin's ship have a name that makes sense ;-P
The Tarrasque plays a role in Golarion's history, based on the preview copy of the Pathfinder Gazetteer that I just finished. So you can rest assured that it is going to remain a part of Golarion's lore.
-Lisa
And the Tarrasque needs to stay in, too, if only to let Keyra Palin's ship have a name that makes sense ;-PThe Tarrasque plays a role in Golarion's history, based on the preview copy of the Pathfinder Gazetteer that I just finished. So you can rest assured that it is going to remain a part of Golarion's lore.
-Lisa
I bet it ate Aroden.
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And the Tarrasque needs to stay in, too, if only to let Keyra Palin's ship have a name that makes sense ;-PThe Tarrasque plays a role in Golarion's history, based on the preview copy of the Pathfinder Gazetteer that I just finished. So you can rest assured that it is going to remain a part of Golarion's lore.
-Lisa
Can you make sure it's bigger than it is in the MM? I've always hated how the Red dragon is bigger than it.
Can you make sure it's bigger than it is in the MM? I've always hated how the Red dragon is bigger than it.
Well, the red dragon has a higher CR, so it's allowed to be bigger ;-)
See, as far as I'm concerned, you could cut:
Achaierai
Athatch
Behir
Darkmantle
Delver
Shocker Lizard
The Tarrasque
Tojanida
Triton
I love all these monsters and would hate to see them cut (OK maybe the Delver would be ok).
I dont understand wanting to cut the Tojanida. The Tojanida, Salamander, Arrowhawk and Xorn are the 4 elemental beasts.
They seem to be counterpoints to each other.
All 4 have small, medium and large versions and all have the same challenge rating.
If you cut Tojanida it would just make sence to cut the other 3...and I like them all.
...
See, as far as I'm concerned, you could cut:Achaierai
Athatch
Behir
Darkmantle
Delver
Shocker Lizard
The Tarrasque
Tojanida
Triton...
You leave those wonky monsters alone! They're not bad they're just ... misunderstood ! Yeah that's it, misunderstood!
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Where would I find heralds of gods that have been sent out already. I think i have all the modules and pathfinder stuff. Which heralds do I have?
jamie
PLEASE tell me you're going to include at least some of the monsters from the APs & Modules in it (I could see leaving the heralds of the various deities out, but things like the Nosferatu, Shining Child of Thassilon, and faceless stalker the like should be in there. Paizo's original stuff is of exceedingly high quality and deserves to be in a core book, previous edition presence be damned.PHB and MM in the first round.
As far as the original MMs not working, they work fine. If you find your players are tearing through the original monsters then just give the monsters some additional hitpoints, +1/2 hp usually works well.
Actually, that should be the PHB and DMG that we are going to be combining into one book. We have always planned to release a MM-type book separately.
-Lisa
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but things like the Nosferatu, Shining Child of Thassilon, and faceless stalker the like should be in there.
No they shouldn't. It doesn't matter how "exceedingly high quality" they are, they're a WASTE OF SPACE. Take a look at the monsters, aside from a giant gecko... which doesn't scream D&D classic to me.. NONE of them are appropriate for starting an adventure.
They should NOT start converting monsters until they're ready to start thinking about doing them all. If they do 10 monsters now for PRPG book they set themselves up for incompatibility or other issue when they sit down to do a book of monster.
I don't want ANYTHING that can't be used in it's original form in any of the books Paizo puts out from Pathfinder RPG forward. Wizards did that 4 freaking times.
Forgotten Realms Campaign Settings (Epic Rules)
Epic Level Handbook
Forgotten Realms Faiths & Pantheons
Deities & Demigods
Wizards of the Coast created 4 rulesets of level 20+ gaming, 2 for epic, 2 for gods, because they couldn't wait until until one was done. So you have some stuff that works but a lot of stuff that's just down right incompatible. Forget the fact that the gods are technically epic characters but their stats are build using any of those rules... because they weren't done yet.
Starting to up convert original monsters before they're ready to do them all is setting themselves up for the same issues.
Personally, I'd rather see Orcs, Goblins, Gnolls, and Hobgoblins converted to 3P before their original monsters. There are a dozen more monster, not including dragons, that deserve treatment before Paizo originals. I need these creatures tougher and more balanced for PCs then I need original creatures that in most cases aren't even part of the Adventure Paths they're featured in... or any other product for that matter.
That soooo doesn't make sense. The Tarasque is supposed to be the most powerful being in the multiverse that no one can kill!!!
I think you got it mixed up with the gods :P
Seriously, when you hear that another deity bites the dust and some adventuring party is running around with deific bling now, no one bats an eye, but mention that you finished off the Tarrasque and people go to the beach to watch the seas boil.
Where would I find heralds of gods that have been sent out already. I think i have all the modules and pathfinder stuff. Which heralds do I have?
I know about the Heralds of Desna (Night Monarch, from Sins of the Saviors p.88) and Lamashtu (Ythazmari, also from SotS, p.90).
And Seven Days to the Grave (p.86) has Abadar's Herald, the Lawgiver.
All of them are CR15, so it seems that this is going to be the norm for heralds.
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PHB and MM in the first round.
As far as the original MMs not working, they work fine. If you find your players are tearing through the original monsters then just give the monsters some additional hitpoints, +1/2 hp usually works well.
Actually, that should be the PHB and DMG that we are going to be combining into one book. We have always planned to release a MM-type book separately.
-Lisa
Oh dear God!
Its the D&D Expert manual all over again..."Please do not read this section if you are not the DM." Oh No. That would require a section in the DMG with a Monster Manual...
I Do love the Paizo Pathfinder stuff, but there are days when I think you should have gone back to the D&D they used for the Mystaran/Known World Setting. You know: The Whole "D&D Cyclopedia" thing.
Oh dear God!
Its the D&D Expert manual all over again..."Please do not read this section if you are not the DM."
No it should be fine.
Honestly..What is in the DMG that players should not read?
A little confuced here.
I thought the point of the 3.75 Pathfinder RPG was that it would ude the core 3.5 books so as not to facilitate the purchase of a who new set of books. If I'm going to have to buy a whole new PHB, MM, and DMG, then I might as well go with 4e and the obvious money grab it is designed as.
WotC did research that determined that people would be willing to buy all new books every 7-8 years, hence 4e.
I thought that Paizo with The Pathfinder RPG was bucking that assumption and rolling with a game that let everyone use their current books.
I don't see how needing to have all new core books is conducive to being backward compatible with 3.5.
ASEO out
Personally, I'd think the monster manual should be off limits to players... I have one player with his own MM and he always is looking up the stats of whatever we fight... very annoying. This is one of the reasons why I'm glad the monsters won't be in the main book of Pathfinder.
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A little confuced here.
I thought the point of the 3.75 Pathfinder RPG was that it would ude the core 3.5 books so as not to facilitate the purchase of a who new set of books. If I'm going to have to buy a whole new PHB, MM, and DMG, then I might as well go with 4e and the obvious money grab it is designed as.
WotC did research that determined that people would be willing to buy all new books every 7-8 years, hence 4e.
I thought that Paizo with The Pathfinder RPG was bucking that assumption and rolling with a game that let everyone use their current books.
I don't see how needing to have all new core books is conducive to being backward compatible with 3.5.
ASEO out
The point of what they are doing is to provide us with a DMG and PHB in the Pathfinder RPG book. You will still be able to use, with very little modifications to skills and feats, all your current suppliment books like the Complete series, the Races of series, and that sort of stuff so you won't need to re-buy all that stuff. You can even still use the existing Monster Manual with very minor, on-the-fly mostly, conversions to skills, CMB, and feats, although it looks like Paizo is gonna have a Pathfinder Beastiary also that won't need any conversion.
The main complaint most people have is that they are gonna be tossing out a library of 3.5 splat books. Now you don't have to. Just pick up the Pathfinder RPG and you are done unless you want to buy more Golorian goodness.
No it should be fine.
Honestly..What is in the DMG that players should not read?
Not that much. Traps and their (standard) DCs? Poisons and Diseases? That's about the only things I can think of. And they're not exactly a big state secret, either.
Who knows: vulnerable points on the monster they are facing?
If they'd do something like this, you'd probably find it in the monster manual, together with the monsters they're facing.
I thought that Paizo with The Pathfinder RPG was bucking that assumption and rolling with a game that let everyone use their current books.I don't see how needing to have all new core books is conducive to being backward compatible with 3.5.
You don't need the books if you have the old ones. But if you do have those old books, they're there for you.
Personally, I'd think the monster manual should be off limits to players... I have one player with his own MM and he always is looking up the stats of whatever we fight... very annoying.
Uh, what? And you don't smack him over the head with a rolled up steel girder? Tell him to get his damn nose out of that book or else.
You need a firm hand as DM. Not cruel - cruelty's not necessary but very satisfactory ;-)) - but you don't have to let them look at those books.
My personal practise if players look at stuff they're not supposed to is double all numeric values in the stats.
"So you *know* that an erinyes has 85hp, AC23 and attacks for +14/+9 (1d8+5/19-20/x2)? Well, they just got the "nosy player bonus" and they now have 170hp, AC46, attacks for +28/+18 (2d8+10/17-20/x4)"
Of course, I don't double all numbers. That would be stupid. XP and treasure are halved, of course }>
Seriously: He's not supposed to look at monster stats, and you can stop him.
A little confuced here.
I thought the point of the 3.75 Pathfinder RPG was that it would ude the core 3.5 books so as not to facilitate the purchase of a who new set of books. If I'm going to have to buy a whole new PHB, MM, and DMG, then I might as well go with 4e and the obvious money grab it is designed as.
In August on 2009 the 3.5 core rulebooks will have been out of print for over a year.
Yes you can probably stil get them very easily on ebay or something..but for Pathfinder to be successful the core rulebooks still need to be on bookstore and gaming store shelves.So the solution is for Paizo to print their own 3.5 core rulebooks after the WotC ones are all gone.
Paizo has decided that if they are going to be printing their own versions of the PHB and DMG, this it is the perfect oppertunity to fix up some of the rules....So instead of a direct conversion, the Pathfinder RPG will be 3.75 edition.
Pathfinder RPG, or 3.75, or whatever-you-want-to-call-it will be backward compatable with 3.5. So you dont really have to buy the Pathfinder RPG book if you dont want. You can keep on playing Pathfinder adventures using the 3.5 core rulebooks with very little converting (and that exactly what a lot of people plan on doing).
Another great thing about 3.75 over 4th edition is that all your 3.0 and 3.5 books are still usuable with very little converting. Those of us with bookshelves full of 3rd editon stuff can apreciate that.
So no...Paizo will not be reprinting a ton of 3rd edition books. They just need to keep the core rulebooks on the shelves for new generations of players. And since the Pathfinder RPG book will be only the PHB and DMG combined....It was pointed out that the 3rd corebook kind of needs to be re-printed eventually as well. Otherwise every simple monster needs to be statted out and take up room in an adventure.
So thats it...just the 3 necessities will be reprinted in the form of 2 books. And you technicly dont even need to buy them to be able to play Pathfinder for years to come.