Not sure if I am the only person of this opinion but I would like to see these spells removed entirely. This sort of thing should be relegate to deities, djinn and other such beings as supernatural abilties instead of appearing on spell lists. Inlcuded in this is removing them from the school powers of the Universal School in Pathfinder RPG.
-Weylin
Wish is a great temptation spell. "Do I do something safe, or try to see if I can push it with the wording." And they have been a part of D&D for a long time. Personally, I want to see them stay in. As far as the universal school power, I think it just needs to be stipulated that while its a spell like ability, it still has an XP cost.
I just want them off the universal school list.
If for the second, then where on earth would you put them and why?
IF you remove them from the Universal School, the only ones that tend to make sense are Conjuration or Evocation depending on if you feel the Wish spells create from nothing, or summon from elsewhere. A far stretch might be Transmutation...
I do not advocate that, because that would give those schools a bit more power than they really need.
As in off the universalist's powers list or out of the school entirely?
If the first, then many people have felt the same.
If for the second, then where on earth would you put them and why?
Sorry, I should have been clearer. I want them of the School Powers list.
If not removed entirely from the spell list i would also agree they should be removed from the school powers for universal. They are just to much to me for a supernatural or spell-like ability, especially if they dont require the same components (though i seem to recall something in the monster manual about still needing costly items even for spell-like and supernatural abilities).
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Wish is a great temptation spell. "Do I do something safe, or try to see if I can push it with the wording." And they have been a part of D&D for a long time. Personally, I want to see them stay in. As far as the universal school power, I think it just needs to be stipulated that while its a spell like ability, it still has an XP cost.
Like KnightErrantJR, I also like Wish for tradition's sake--and for the temptation that it presents in play.
As far as Wish as a Universalist power, it presents a dilemma. If the Wish spell-like ability doesn't have an experience cost, it'll be over-used. To take just one example, with 25,000 gp/day available from non-magical item creation, the Universalist would soon be able to buy or commission nearly anything.
On the other hand, if Wish has a 5000 xp cost, it'll be rarely used. That doesn't seem fun to me: It's too much like having no ability, but keeping a scroll of Wish in your magical haversack for emergencies. I think that the Universalist deserves a better ability than that.
As a possible solution that others have posted before (my apologies for forgetting where), perhaps the Wish ability could be replaced by some version of an "Anyspell" ability like that of the current Wish spell, but without its experience cost.
Maybe another possible solution is to change Wish so that using it in some, clearly defined ways (e.g., "Anyspell" for lower-level mage spells) costs less or no experience, while using it to make cash, to grant inherent bonuses, or to "push it with the wording" will cost the full 5000 xp.
Perhaps something along the lines of Monte Cook's Undo spell?
Its one of many spells I would get rid of (Most of the 7 and level spells).
Perhaps something along the lines of Monte Cook's Undo spell?Sorry, I'm not familiar with that one.
Undo was a 9th (originally, before the Book of Experimental Might) level spell, I think, that basically just does the "reverse something bad" option of Wish, that lets you undo one recent event, but still keeps everything else the same, i.e. you could reverse your party member being killed by a Power Word: Kill, but the wizard that cast it would still have cast the spell and doesn't get it back.
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Undo was a 9th (originally, before the Book of Experimental Might) level spell, I think, that basically just does the "reverse something bad" option of Wish, that lets you undo one recent event, but still keeps everything else the same, i.e. you could reverse your party member being killed by a Power Word: Kill, but the wizard that cast it would still have cast the spell and doesn't get it back.
I like the flexibility of the spell, which seems thematically appropriate for a Universalist. One disadvantage of Undo would be that it allows a mage to react, but not initiate action.
An aside, not intended to thread-jack: What about having a version of Undo as a Protection domain cleric spell?
Wish is a great temptation spell. "Do I do something safe, or try to see if I can push it with the wording." And they have been a part of D&D for a long time. Personally, I want to see them stay in. As far as the universal school power, I think it just needs to be stipulated that while its a spell like ability, it still has an XP cost.
I, also, like to see it stay in. I think the 3rd Edition reincarnation of the spell is the best it can get while being balance and still being the traditional Wish spell.
I wouldn't want to see more D&D Sacred Cows slaughtered. Too many Gygaxian D&D material has already been killed by WotC, let's not have Paizo doing it too.
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I too want Wish as part of the game. It is the ultimate DM temptation effect as KnighErrant points out. I also agree that it is overpowered on the Universalists Power list if it doesn't require the XP cost. The Anyspell option as the Universalist Power makes a TON of sense. Universalists are about versatility. Whats more versatile than having a power that lets you cast any 1 spell you know once per day.
I also agree that if you keep Wish on the Power list but just add in the XP cost, it will never be used which really sucks for the Universalists Powers list. In any event, I think Wish should be kept, but the power list for the Universalist reworked with regards to Wish and Limited Wish.
