Acrobatics - Jumping

[Robert Brambley]

This Alpha rules document has been fabulous and I'm looking forward to more releases. I've put together a group of friends and we begin playtesting what we have already using GameMastery Modules next week.

Something I recently noticed in this skill, and I'm sorry if this was already discussed and answered:

Is there a specific reason or just an oversight that the jumping feature of the Acrobatics skill no longer included a modifer based on base movement of the creature?

I'm hoping they are not doing away with this; furthermore, it makes perfect sense to have a negative modifier for slower creatures and a bonus for faster.

Robert

[Lady Melo]

I also noticed that seemed rather off, but I included it anyways. Also it seemed rather odd that acrobatics should have the combination of jump, tumble, and balance. What we did originally was separate tumble out as its own skill. It seemed too over powered combining all three. They are constantly used skills for my group. What I am thinking about doing now is making Acrobatics - tumble and balance, and then also make Athletics - jump and climb. I am going to give rogue both, and give fighter athletics. It seemed a little unfair that the rogue got to combine three skills for the price of one, and the fighter lost the ability to jump.

[Forever Man]

Frankly I'm hoping that Acrobatics gets reduced to just covering the old Balance & Tumble skillsets, whereas Jump, joins Climb and Swim in the Athletics skillset.

[Anry]

I don't beleive there will be a combining of Climb and Swim into other skills mainly because of Fly. Swim and Climb were the basis for the fly skill afterall. (at least that's what I gathered)

Honestly, I think Fighters should just have acrobatics added to their skill list. Balance and Tumble are important for them. Tumble's importance is obvious. But Balance now balance is only an obvious skill to be given to fighters after you've tried to charge across anything other than a perfectly level floor.

[Robert Brambley]

Anry wrote:

I don't beleive there will be a combining of Climb and Swim into other skills mainly because of Fly. Swim and Climb were the basis for the fly skill afterall. (at least that's what I gathered)

Honestly, I think Fighters should just have acrobatics added to their skill list. Balance and Tumble are important for them. Tumble's importance is obvious. But Balance now balance is only an obvious skill to be given to fighters after you've tried to charge across anything other than a perfectly level floor.

I think it's important not to simply include a skill as a class skill just because it's important.

Technically tumble is important to all classes - it helps reduce damage when falling, and it help prevent AOO from people.

So Balance is indeed important to fighters, and is important to all classes when needed to traverse dangerous cliffs/bridges etc.

But it isn't necessarily a skill that a fighter would have sage-like knowledge and training in (as opposed to a rogue).

That being said - Jump needs to be on the fighters list. I think balance and Tumble can be together, but Jump needs to be available to fighters without a doubt.

Robert

[Melissa Litwin]

I also agree that Jump needs to be broken out of Acrobatics and probably combined with Climb and maybe Swim in a new Athletics skill. The big reason I have is Jump is a strength-based skill for a reason- no matter how agile you are, you won't be able to jump very far if you don't have good muscle power behind it. Combining it with Dex-based skills just doesn't make sense to me, while combining it with other Str-based skills does.

Also, putting Jump, Tumble, and Balance all in one skill makes that skill really way too powerful, as has been pointed out previously. Tumble is really good, and Balance is not generally useful but when you need it, you really need it. Jump, Climb, and Swim checks are less useful in general; obviously it depends on the DM, but I've noticed they just come up less. Combining those three wouldn't make an overpowered skill.

[Roman]

I am completely opposed to combining Climb and Swim into some kind of Athletics skill. They are completely different modes of movement and it makes no sense whatsoever to combine them. Indeed, I like how they have added Flight as a new form of movement.

On the other hand, I do like combining balance and tumble into a single acrobatics skill. Adding jump in the mix, is not so great, but is OKish.

[n30t3h1]

I think they are going to leave Climb and Swim alone. Mainly because they are very specific modes of movement. My fish has a high athletics skill, which means he can climb really well? What? I realize they could have a disclaimer stating that fish can't climb and blah, blah, blah. But I think that is their intention in leaving those skills by themselves.

[Mosaic]

Here's my suggestion-

* Acrobatics = Balance + Tumble + Fly (if applicable). All are Dex-based maneuverability skills.

* Athletics = Jump + Climb + anything having to do with running. All are Str-based skills.

* Swim = just Swim. It is a different mode of movement. I do think it should be trained only; you gotta give it at least one point to know how to swim.

[Robert Brambley]

Mosaic wrote:

Here's my suggestion-

* Acrobatics = Balance + Tumble + Fly (if applicable). All are Dex-based maneuverability skills.

* Athletics = Jump + Climb + anything having to do with running. All are Str-based skills.

* Swim = just Swim. It is a different mode of movement. I do think it should be trained only; you gotta give it at least one point to know how to swim.

I agree for the most part - fly should be its own skill however.

Swim should able to be done untrained. Even a baby who has never before been in water has a natural abilty to try to stay afloat. It might not get him very far - especially in moving water - but still the ability to try should be apparent.

Ultimately your idea for Athletics and Acrobatics (minus Fly) are spot on. My logic says if swim is its own skill; so too should fly.

Robert

[Mosaic]

Robert Brambley wrote:

My logic says if swim is its own skill; so too should fly.

I can absolutely see your point. I just figured that a lot more PCs are going to swim than fly. Some people seem to hate the idea of a Fly skill. I was thinking that maybe by rolling it in with Acrobatics we could retain the ability to get better at flying without making it a skill all by itself.