Paizo,
I am quite confused and frustrated.
I live in Australia and I am having a lot of difficulty trying to support my Local Gaming Stores.
Thing is, I cannot seem to get any Pathfinder after issue #4.
I have tried 3 local retailers and 1 mail order retailer. Up until today, I have had some fairly consistent information, but the last answer has me angry that I have missed the boat:
1. Tin Soldier/Walrus and Carpenter (25th March 2008): Has not been shipped to Australia yet. No one has it.
2. Games Paradise, Sydney (25th March 2008): I don't know where the order is; it looks like it has not been shipped from the US.
3. Napoleon's Bookstore (25th March 2008): It has not arrived from the US.
4a. Military Simulations, Damien's version (17th Jan 2008 & 29th Feb 2008): We are still waiting on the first shipment.
4b. Military Simulations, Andrew's and Peter Stone's version (25th March 2008): We sold out on the 19th Feb 2008, sorry we didn't ring you when we had it, but you should have preordered.
NOT ONE SINGLE RETAILER has been able to give me any information on:
a) If they can even get Pathfinder regularly, if at all.
b) What month they can roughly expect it.
And it seems to be too late to order from anyone now. I repeatedly ask 'Can you get it in?'
I get 'Uhh, if it comes in with the next shipment, maybe.'
'When's that?' I ask.
'Maybe next week.' Was Andrew's reply from Mil Sims.
What sort of comment is that? Would you buy from this person?
Tin Soldier, Napoleon's Bookstore and Games Paradise are similar:
'Can. You. Order. In. Pathfinder. #5. Please?'
'I can give you a call once it reaches the store.'
'That is not what I asked. Could you order it from Paizo, or do I have to buy it from Paizo myself?'
'All I can do is call you when it reaches our store.'
'So that is a....No? A Yes?'
'We are expecting it in next week'
'Uh huh. Okay thanks. I will talk to you next week.'
Am I speaking a foreign language or not asking the right way?
I have a game to run, but it has stalled completly because of this. But I suppose that is my fault because it seems I cannot just pick one off the shelf. I never had this problem with Dungeon and I fail to understand why it is different all of a sudden.
Paizo, I want to get to the bottom of this. I figure it is either the retailers cannot be bothered to make small orders (for various reasons), or PAIZO cannot guarantee a retailer if they will get the product they have asked for (on behalf of a customer).
I liked Dungeon and Dragon, and I have liked Pathfinder, but if I have to indulge in some saga-lengthed excuses from retailers and distributors about every single cotton-picking issue, I am going to lose interest very fast.
Your comments are welcome. My conclusion-jumping may be incorrect, but the bottom line is that I still only see Pathfinder #4 as the latest issue in any RPG store I have access to.
Our primary distributor in Australia recently went through a staffing shakeup and that caused them to cease ordering Paizo products entirely. Very recently, things were finally sorted out between them and us and they put in an order for all manner of Paizo product, including every volume of Pathfinder they had yet to order. That order shipped in recent weeks, so I'd expect Pathfinders post-#4 to appear in Australian hobby stores soon.
For any future issues with getting our product in OZ, don't hesitate to email me: josh@paizo.com.
Am I speaking a foreign language or not asking the right way?
I...
For what it is worth I spoke to my FLGS today. They told me that they recently got an Email asking them to reconfirm their order, so it should be on its way.
I also asked when Pathfinder was normally shipped and they said "Dunno, pathfinder stuff just comes when it comes, it don't have set shipping dates"
The Troll
Chief Technical Officer
|
I also asked when Pathfinder was normally shipped and they said "Dunno, pathfinder stuff just comes when it comes, it don't have set shipping dates"
To be fair, that's probably true—for them. Pathfinder comes to us on a boat from China, and we usually get an estimated arrival date for our warehouse about three weeks before it arrives. We use that date to set a release date, usually 2-3 weeks after we get it in our warehouse (that window covers us shipping to our distributors, and those distributors shipping it to retail). So we *do* set release dates, about 4-6 weeks in advance.
I'd expect that transit and customs add some variability to the date that our Australian distributor receives the product, so they can probably only estimate their arrival date within a week or two. Whether they pass that on to their retailers, I don't know.
I live in the Uk and decided that while keeping the middleman in business they tend to do more CC games and comics than rpg's, at least where i live.
Long live Paizo, so what if shipping is upto 36days
Shakor, I live in the Southern Highlands and we decided to just subscribe to the adventure path. I know it can be a little hairier on your bank account, but there's a substantial discount, the adventures usually arrive only a week or two after the pdf copy, and you get a nice Christmas card at the appropriate time of the year.
I have RotRL #1-6 and am anticipating our copy of CoCT#1 soon (as long as my wife remembers to bring it home from her workplace when it arrives).
Shakor, I live in the Southern Highlands and we decided to just subscribe to the adventure path. I know it can be a little hairier on your bank account, but there's a substantial discount, the adventures usually arrive only a week or two after the pdf copy, and you get a nice Christmas card at the appropriate time of the year.
I have RotRL #1-6 and am anticipating our copy of CoCT#1 soon (as long as my wife remembers to bring it home from her workplace when it arrives).
I think that Shakor may be trying to support his local gaming stores, which is why he is persisting with getting it locally, rather than just ordering directly from Paizo.
Olaf the Stout
|
Shakor, I live in Sydney, I like to support my FLGS, and I have experienced exactly the same thing. It’s a real pity.
Thanks Josh and Vic for shedding some light on the situation – I’m not sure how much Paizo can do about it, but as long as you’re aware of it …
The pity is, that the stores (or at least the guys at the counter) seem to have no idea when Pathfinder is going to come in, or what the hold up is. I was told about 4 weeks ago (and then again 2 weeks ago) that PF5 would be in “in the next few days”. Worse is that the guys at the stores are quite blaze about the delays: “we expect that with Paizo stuff, we never know when its coming in.”
At my FLGS, PF1 and 2 sold like hotcakes, PF3 did ok, PF4 is basically sitting on the shelves – apparently people stopped coming in to ask for it as it was quite late. I don’t think that’s a good situation for Paizo.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
|
Shakor, I live in the Southern Highlands and we decided to just subscribe to the adventure path. I know it can be a little hairier on your bank account, but there's a substantial discount, the adventures usually arrive only a week or two after the pdf copy, and you get a nice Christmas card at the appropriate time of the year.
I have RotRL #1-6 and am anticipating our copy of CoCT#1 soon (as long as my wife remembers to bring it home from her workplace when it arrives).
I think that Shakor may be trying to support his local gaming stores, which is why he is persisting with getting it locally, rather than just ordering directly from Paizo.
Olaf the Stout
I live in Newcastle and our one Games Store (not including Maitland) doesn't get any Paizo stuff. I still support my FLGS for WotC products, but for all of my Paizo stuff I have just ended up subscribing. As BEP said, it is generally there within 1-2 weeks (best I had was 5 days, worst I had (once) was 3 weeks).
I just got my Package containing PF#7, CotCT Player's Guide, RotRL Map Folio, Guide to Korvosa, J3: Crucible of Chaos, Harrow Deck & Northwest Smith today (about 1hr ago to be precise) which is 2 weeks, which is good considering Easter.As an aside, I was also in my FLGS (The Games Shop @ Charlestown for those of you interested) today trying to hunt up my copy of City of Stormreach that I pre-ordered at the end of January. A month after it released and they tell me that it has only just been shipped to them from WotC (should arrive tomorrow??). Apparently WotC just save up their orders down there until they hit a certain $$ value, then send them all at once. I have last month's and this month's products arriving with this shipment. Not FLGS's fault, but very annoying!!
I also rang the one FLGS in Maitland (SF Nexus) and they have not even ordered WotC products in the last couple of months due to the sharp decline in interest pre-4e. They did carry Paizo products too, but I think they stopped a while ago.
|
I started my D&D Gaming with Millitary Simulations, then moved off to...(blast dont remember them)...then had to settle for my Games Workshop Warhammer local shop.
They were all veryhard to get D&D stuff from. One even had the audacity to send me stuff I didnt order to make up for what they were supposed to send me.
Pathfinder need to market their Adventure Magazine for Newsagents like Dragon/Dungeon and Warhammer in Australia.
Living in Adelaide, I'm a little short on an FLGS. I used to pick up Dungeon and Dragon from my local newsagent, but once they'd been axed, I worked out that it actually cost less to subscribe to Pathfinder than to get Dungeon & Dragon (including delivery!) and I receive it about a month earlier than I would be able to get the other two. In fact, Pathfinder #7 arrived on the doorstep yesterday.
In short, the subscription has been worth it.
Reggie
|
I'm sorry to hear of retailer hold-ups regarding Pathfinder.
I have always supported my FLGS, but when Dragon/Dungeon magazines ceased, I wanted to guarantee 100% that I would receive every issue of Pathfinder, so for the first time ever, I subscribed online (I still have a sour memory of collecting EVERY issue of Dungeon magazine, EXCEPT ONE early issue that never seemed to hit Australian stores).
I regret not supporting my FLGS, particularly as pre-4E WotC product seems to have dried up too, but I don't regret the excellent service I have recieved from Paizo subscriptions.
To be fair, it's not only Paizo products that can be difficult to source locally. I never found Arcanis Psionics Unbound hardcover locally, but saw it in Paizo's online store, so I added it to my Paizo order, and will continue to do so whenever local stores are unable to stock good product. FLGS loss is Paizo's gain.
For the record, I hope to run Pathfinder Society organised play adventures when they become available. Hopefully, that will help give the game more visibility at local game stores and conventions, and help spread the word.
Cheers,
DarkWhite
Melbourne, Australia
|
|
Military Simulations Melbourne has had all Pathfinder books in stock and still have all six on shelf. Problem is each book arrives about two months after the US release and the store didn't know what I was talking about when ordering book one. They are pretty good with ongoing orders though.
Mind Games Melbourne is better, with books in stock usually two weeks before Military Simulations and have the books in stock presently but provide garbage service and ordinary ordering.
Supporting my FLGS has never been this difficult before.
Then again, being Australian means having a crap time getting any RPG that wasn't WotC or White Wolf distributed, so why would Pathfinder - best thing in RPG publication today all be it - and Paizo publications in general be any different?
Not Paizo's fault but it still sucks.
What is a little odd is that the product ships from China to North America and then from North America to the Australian Distributors. It'd make more sense to have the printers ship straight to the Australian Distributors and ... ahhh... I just figured out the problem with this. Distributors like to order product in one at a time (I'm exaggerating not not by much) just in case the product does not sell. Still might be possible to ship some copies to distributors straight from China but they'd probably be pretty conservative in their ordering for fear that the FLGS don't place enough orders to move the product out of the warehouse.
|
|
Our primary distributor in Australia recently went through a staffing shakeup and that caused them to cease ordering Paizo products entirely. Very recently, things were finally sorted out between them and us and they put in an order for all manner of Paizo product, including every volume of Pathfinder they had yet to order. That order shipped in recent weeks, so I'd expect Pathfinders post-#4 to appear in Australian hobby stores soon.
For any future issues with getting our product in OZ, don't hesitate to email me: josh@paizo.com.
I talked to these guys (the primary Australian distributor) today. They confirmed what Josh said about a staffing change causing some problems, although it seems it was very much accidental – the new staff member had apparently not correctly understood the ordering / payment process, which I believe left them with an outstanding account with Paizo
What seemed to really frustrate the guys (here in Australia) is that they never had any intention to cease their orders of Paizo stuff, and they were not aware of what the problem was, why they were not receiving their orders, until about two weeks ago. Once made aware of it, they acknowledged it was their mistake and moved to rectify the problem. (The guys said that a big shipment arrived in their warehouse yesterday or today and will be hitting the shelves over the next few days).
Now, I’m not looking to aim the blamethrower – I don’t know who’s miscommunication it was, but the fact is a miscommunication meant that most Aussie Paizo fans were left without any new products on shelves here for almost three months, which is pretty disappointing.
As can be seen from this thread (and from talking to the staff at the gaming stores) the delays are causing some people to either stop buying or go to subscriptions. Now, if we stop buying, that’s not much good for anyone. If we subscribe instead of purchasing from stores, it’s not great for the stores, but it’s good for Paizo at least (and possibly good for us – it may work out cheaper, even with postage, and we’ll probably get the volumes sooner).
Paizo has certainly encouraged subscriptions, and I don’t fault them for that – it gives them a more certain stream of income, which in turn allows them to plan their business better. The problem I see with more and more people going to subscriptions (or worse still, not buying at all due to unavailability in stores) is that the stores will stock less of Paizo’s products, and with less display that possibly means less new customers – and in the long run (especially launching a new game to compete to some degree with 4E) they need new customers.
I’m glad that this current situation has been sorted out, and hopefully things will be smooth from here in … but if future problems arise, and the primary distributor for a whole country (even if it’s a probably relatively small market like Australia) seems to entirely cease ordering your products, I would hope the guys at Paizo would be on the phone ASAP to try to work out what the problem is, and prevent shelves here being empty of Pathfinder for 3 months.
Thanks for listening,
Moth.
I certainly don't want to aim the blamethrower, so I will say only that we fully support the distribution channel and encourage sales of our products at retail to the same extent that we encourage them via direct sales. All of our distributors are on a mailing list wherein they receive weekly updates from me personally about product announcements, when orders are due, when products ship, etc. All of our distributors are informed equally. :-)
Living in Adelaide, I'm a little short on an FLGS. I used to pick up Dungeon and Dragon from my local newsagent, but once they'd been axed, I worked out that it actually cost less to subscribe to Pathfinder than to get Dungeon & Dragon (including delivery!) and I receive it about a month earlier than I would be able to get the other two. In fact, Pathfinder #7 arrived on the doorstep yesterday.
In short, the subscription has been worth it.
Reggie
Whereabouts in Adelaide are you Reggie?
Game Quest in town (near the railway station) carry a large range of Paizo stuff. I've seen Pathfinder, GameMastery Modules, Map Packs, Flip-Mats and Compleat Encounters all available there. I subscribed to Paizo for the RotR AP so I don't know how soon the got the latest issue after it was released.
Olaf the Stout
|
|
most Aussie Paizo fans were left without any new products on shelves here for almost three months, which is pretty disappointing.
As can be seen from this thread (and from talking to the staff at the gaming stores) the delays are causing some people to either stop buying or go to subscriptions.
The problem I see with more and more people going to subscriptions (or worse still, not buying at all due to unavailability in stores) is that the stores will stock less of Paizo’s products, and with less display that possibly means less new customers – and in the long run (especially launching a new game to compete to some degree with 4E) they need new customers.
I mentioned Pathfinder to several GMs and players at Arcanacon, one of Melbourne's biggest game conventions, a couple of weekends ago. I was shocked at how few people (outside of my own gaming group) had heard of Pathfinder. Visibility in stores could certainly be a contributing factor.
Once product starts flowing and appearing on shelves again, this should help. Though I think Pathfinder Society organised play will also increase visibility, personal experience and word-of-mouth, in a big way, particularly if posters and flyers become available to advertise Pathfinder Socitey in stores, so customers stop to ask about it.
I encourage everyone to get behind Pathfinder Society and support this initiative locally, or at least spread the word by talking about your Pathfinder game experiences, Pathfinder RPG alpha, etc with anyone who will listen.
Cheers,
DarkWhite
|
|
I had a little chat to my FLGS. They are getting so discouraged with the unreliability of the Paizo deliveries that they are talking about not stocking Paizo anymore. As these guys are one of the major Sydney stores I think that this issue has become something that could effect sales, as the Pathfinder products will not be getting out there for the general gaming public to look at, admire and hopefully buy.
I am a Pathfinder subscriber so haven't been effected by the gap for my main fix, but getting the pathfinder modules that I want has been a nightmare (for both me and the shop I ordered them from). It took 3 months to get Seven Swords of Sin.
As I tend to do with rants, I made it then left the messageboards for a few days to cool off. Coming back here, I am relieved to see that the distribution process has been laid bare (thanks Paizo and others) and the insights from a wide spectrum of the RPG community has been most welcome.
To be clear about my initiating post: My stance is to support my FLGS at every possible point and to divine why it seems to be increasingly hard to 'just buy something from the shelf' anymore.
However....
Today is a bright and sunny 5th April 2008 here in Australia, the weather is warm and clear, yet not too hot: Definitely shorts weather if you take a jumper. April 5th also marks the first day where I own Pathfinder #5, #6 and #7, though not without a hidden price.
I bought them yesterday afternoon and I quit shopping from Tin Soldier altogether.
I got into the store at about 4:30pm Friday and (yet again) saw that PF#4 was the latest on the shelves. I asked the clerk if PF was in and I espy the clerk filling out subscription orders. In his hands are PF #5, #6, #7 and the Players Guide to Crimson Throne.
Cool: I have a subscription at Tin Soldier, surely they have them put aside for me?
Glee!
No.
No, I am not on the Tin Soldier subscriber list. He will not sell me one until the has fulfilled the subscriber list as they get first priority. I wait and I wait as he puts them into manilla folders with peoples name on them. He supplies dwindle, then.....
He has a few copies left of each, so I meekly buy those, missing out on the CT Players Guide. He them blames the warehouse, then Drew, then Richard for not putting me back on and shrugs his shoulders when I asked him to do it for them; apparently he doesn't know how to 'work the system.'
To have waited this long because I wanted to support them is one thing (and I greatly appreciate the transparency that Paizo has shown for their distribution process), but to find out that I did not matter enough to Tin Soldier for them to even bother entering my PF subscription to my account is another thing entirely.
Straw. Camel's back. You know the deal.
Tin Soldier is definitely not an FLGS. Their staff show laughable customer service and are only interested in discussing shop politics by way of an "we don't stock it yet" excuse. I will not shop there again. I wholeheartedly stand by this and I suggest that anyone visiting Sydney for RPG needs not shop there either. They are an absolute joke and were they to go out of business have only themselves to blame for their poor performance and management.
Having said that, I am going to browse the other few when I have time to kill, but I am going to order from Paizo directly from now on.
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
|
However....
April 5th marks the first day where I own Pathfinder #5, #6 and #7, though not without a hidden price.I bought them yesterday afternoon and I quit shopping from Tin Soldier altogether.
I got into the store at about 4:30pm Friday and (yet again) saw that PF#4 was the latest on the shelves. I asked the clerk if PF was in and I espy the clerk filling out subscription orders. In his hands are PF #5, #6, #7 and the Players Guide to Crimson Throne.
Cool: I have a subscription at Tin Soldier, surely they have them put aside for me?
No, I am not on the Tin Soldier subscriber list. He will not sell me one until the has fulfilled the subscriber list as they get first priority. I wait and I wait as he puts them into manilla folders with peoples name on them. His supplies dwindle, then.....
He has a few copies left of each, so I meekly buy those, missing out on the CT Players Guide. He them blames the warehouse, then Drew, then Richard for not putting me back on and shrugs his shoulders when I asked him to do it for them; apparently he doesn't know how to 'work the system.'
To have waited this long because I wanted to support them is one thing (and I greatly appreciate the transparency that Paizo has shown for their distribution process), but to find out that I did not matter enough to Tin Soldier for them to even bother...
I have been into Tin Soldier in the City once and yes, there was a distinct lack of Customer Service. I have also been into TS Penrith once and they were slightly better, but not by much.
Good Games on Broadway was pretty good. I was in there last October for the VteS Nationals and they seemed pretty cool. It's at the big crossroads at Central (opposite the Bus Stop where Broadway starts). Just a short way up from Maccas towards CUB, blink and you'll miss it (I did).Another good place that I have found is Unlimited Hobbies/Grey Matter Games at Blacktown. Michael is pretty good there.
I wouldn't bother with Games Parasite... err... Paradise either. They are just a bunch of money hungry so and so's.
MilSims isn't too bad and shipping is fair, but they have stuffed me around before and it's always good to have a FLGS to go in to.
One thing I have found about Sydney though is they are always more expensive than my FLGS here in Newcastle (The Games Shop at Charlestown Square). I'm talking $5-$10 difference here too, not just a couple of bucks.
Where do you guys buy from?
Moth, Sanwah?
|
|
Tin Soldier city usually. The guy I most often deal with /talk to / buy from there (Drew) I have nothing but praise for. Never had any dramas with him, or most of the other staff. However, there are one or two people there who are not the most customer service-friendly. In my experience they are the exception not the rule. Unfortunately, I do share Shakor’s experience of mysteriously falling of their subscriber list a couple of times (during the Dragon/Dungeon mag days). However, they always managed to find me a copy of what I was after, even if they hadn’t reserved it for me.
I’ll go to Games Paradise occasionally if TS doesn’t have something, or its closed. I only just found Good Games at Broadway at the end of last year (shame on me too – its about two blocks from where I work) – they seem pretty cool, but their RPG section is pretty tiny. They do stock Pathfinder though.
|
|
As for me...Tin Soldier (both City and Penrith) for Minis, I have never had any issues with their customer service (Drew is even making some broken characters for me and mine to use in a deliberately broken one-off). They are actually going to be starting a forum on their website soon, it will enable people to find others with similiar interests (this replaces a forum that Penrith was running that got hacked to bits).
However, as I am good friends with TC from Napoleons, it is there I go for general RPG stuff....unless it is on 'crazy special' at Milsims.
I try to aviod Games Paradise as I find their customer service...frankly...appalling.
As you see by my byline, I subscribe for most of my Pathfinder needs (mainly for the free PDFs). I wanted to support my FLGS but finance is something that has to be considered, and subscribing was cheaper and meant I didn't miss anything.