Assuming that we get a CHA-based arcane-casting Sorceror class, is there any hope of replacing the INT increase of Elves with CHA? It would satisfy three notions:
1. Elves are naturally magical; therefore, their magic should be innate. What better way to affect that than with a CHA-based Sorceror?
2. Elves are exceptionally long-lived. If elven mages are INT-based Wizards, then they should improve their magic through research and experimentation. However, if elven wizards live a long time, then their research should have a distinct advantage over any other race of wizards, because the elves should have access to more spells from their masters.
In the case of CHA-based Sorcerors, more time does not necessarily help you advance your spell powers.
3. To be cliche "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder." I'm luke warm on their Unnatural Beauty ability. In my campaigns dwarves are age-old rivals with elves, so their starting attitude would be Indifferent. I don't agree that an Indifferent dwarf would be more inclined toward an elf, because they find them unnaturally beautiful. It just seems too weird to me.
In conclusion, I would suggest that elves are very often described as 'graceful.' Without pulling out the dictionary, grace can be attributable to dexterity and social skills, which is Charisma. Replacing the elven +2 INT with +2 CHA is much more elegant game mechanic.
|
3. To be cliche "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder." I'm luke warm on their Unnatural Beauty ability. In my campaigns dwarves are age-old rivals with elves, so their starting attitude would be Indifferent. I don't agree that an Indifferent dwarf would be more inclined toward an elf, because they find them unnaturally beautiful. It just seems too weird to me.
Actually, from a mechanical standpoint, this unnatural beauty ability gives elves a +5 to Diplomacy checks. It's a little broken. If you wan to give them a +2 racial bonus to Diplomacy, I wouldn't squawk too much, but I'd still like the Diplomacy ruleset to be revisited.
so remove their favored class's main stat bonus for another classes?
Why not just add a +2 to all mental stats then.
I think the point was to make Elves' favored class be sorcerer and make their bonus in line with that.
I think the point was to make Elves' favored class be sorcerer and make their bonus in line with that.
I can see that. The idea of magic coming naturally to elves seems to fit their nature quite well, while the idea of learning it from arcane tomes seems like more of a human concept to me.
|
|
I think the point was to make Elves' favored class be sorcerer and make their bonus in line with that.so remove their favored class's main stat bonus for another classes?
Why not just add a +2 to all mental stats then.
Or, there could be Elven subraces, as I suggested on another thread. For example, Moon/Grey Elves would get +2 DEX and +2 INT (Favored Class: Wizard), Sun/High Elves +2 DEX and +2 CHA (Favored Class: Sorcerer), and Wood/Green Elves +2 DEX and +2 WIS (Favored Class: Ranger). Any thoughts?
|
Why not have a stat and skill base that will grow with levels.
Have it to where to be an elf can only add their +1 Stat bonus that can only be added to a stat it had a racial bonus at the beginning. Also give skill bonus like a +2 at every 4 levels to a racial skill.
These might make the races different in higher levels.
Personally, I'm all for scrapping the idea of elves being wizards entirely; relegate them to bards, and move gnomes to wizards.
However, I hadn't noticed the severity of the Diplomacy bonus from Unearthly Beauty; that is rather disturbing. While I like the concept, it also raises an interesting image of a city full of elves, where everyone is either nice to each other, or stabbing each other in the back (since no one, no one can have in indifferent attitude... they're either Friendly or Unfriendly)
|
The words Elven High Wizard means nothing then, elves are wizards, the original mage. I think sorcerer should not be their favored class. Gnomes should be kept as bard since bard spells have mainly illusions. Turning them into sorcerers is kinda stupid since sorcerers are very restricted in spell selection, but not as restricted as psions, psychic warriors, and wilders are in there powers.
I have always associated elves with wizards.
The words Elven High Wizard means nothing then, elves are wizards, the original mage. I think sorcerer should not be their favored class. Gnomes should be kept as bard since bard spells have mainly illusions. Turning them into sorcerers is kinda stupid since sorcerers are very restricted in spell selection, but not as restricted as psions, psychic warriors, and wilders are in there powers.
I disagree that making an elf's favored class bard would make Elven High Wizards meaningless. Elves would still have high wizards, but the class they are best at, the class they are naturally inclined towards, would be bard. The wizards would be the ones with the drive to know, the ones with the drive to excel in the magical arts beyond the relatively sedate path and safe magics of the bard. The bards would be the ones who reveled in songs and the joy of life, as the stereotypical elf does.
That most bardic spells are illusions, and therefore gnomes should be bards is, IMO, a poor argument. What else about bards screams gnome? Certainly not musicality... gnomes have never been noted for their music. The 1st edition gnomes were known for being doughty fighters with a knack for illusions. The 2nd edition gnomes were known for being illusionists with a fascination for machines. The 3rd edition gnomes became illusionists who studied and cataloged the world so efficiently that scholars learned gnomish to read their works. Pathfinder seems to be pushing them more towards creatures who are half-fey, both in the technical sense, and the sense of being somewhat removed from reality by the intensity of their focus on their chosen endeavor.
Who are gnomes? Who are elves? While elves have long been associated with magic, how they are connected is variable.
I think the point was to make Elves' favored class be sorcerer and make their bonus in line with that.
That sounds reasonable. I wonder if it is worth considering having TWO favored classes for each race (elves = wiz or sorc, gnome = bard or wiz, dwarf = fighter or cleric, etc.). I know we're used to racial stereotyping in fantasy/sci-fi settings but wouldn't it be novel (and still compatible) to expand the profile a little?
In my homebrews, Elves gain a +2 Cha and Dex and are most often sorcerers . . .at least when one dabbles in the arcane. I agree with the OP that it fits better with my interpretation of the elf.
I'm going to disagree with this. Elves have always been the original wizards with 1000's of years to perfect their art. Magic is an art form to them to show string them into the bard or sorceror role doesn't real fit that ideal.
How does moving the majority of elves to sorcerer or bard prevent elven wizards from spending hundreds or thousands of years perfecting their art? Do sorcerers not perfect their art? Do bards? Do the elven wizards suddenly disappear in a puff of logic?
When you think of elves, do you think of towering intellect, or grace and beauty? That should set the racial modifier. The favoured class, I think, follows naturally once that decision is made.
...I'd still like the Diplomacy ruleset to be revisited.
Urm... it was. Check page 24.
I think the point was to make Elves' favored class be sorcerer and make their bonus in line with that.That sounds reasonable. I wonder if it is worth considering having TWO favored classes for each race (elves = wiz or sorc, gnome = bard or wiz, dwarf = fighter or cleric, etc.). I know we're used to racial stereotyping in fantasy/sci-fi settings but wouldn't it be novel (and still compatible) to expand the profile a little?
Alternatively, we could get rid of favored classes all together. Then there is no need to discuss what class any race favors.