Turn undead abuse - and why do all clerics do it?

[BM]

Mary Yamato wrote:

I like the "give a token to your allies" idea; that would help a lot, though in the last party it would lead to intense theological arguments (as, indeed, the rebuking did--every time he used it he ended up in an argument with Shensen).

Mary

In-game? Anything that leads to more RP is good to me, so long as it is the type of RP the group wants. Was there something that (would have) made it bad?

[Archer]

Rob Bastard wrote:
Saves: All clerics get 2 good saves. Those who chose Trickery or Luck would have the option of using Reflex as a good save rather than Fortitude.

Armor proficiencies: As written, all clerics have the following 5 feats--Simple Weapon Proficiency, Shield Proficiency, & Light, Medium, & Heavy Armor Proficiency. As most gods with the Magic, Knowledge, Luck, & Trickery domains would be unlikely to wear full plate or carry a shield themselves, those these domains would not grant proficiency with shields or the heavier armors, but other abilities instead.

I'm not any good with adding links but I suggest you look at the Non Generic Cleric thread in the archives for some great ideas on balanced yet different cleric ideas. The authors added a PDF of their work. It's a great starting point to add some of the new ideas on this thread

Mike

[Rob Bastard]

Archer wrote:

Rob Bastard wrote:

Saves: All clerics get 2 good saves. Those who chose Trickery or Luck would have the option of using Reflex as a good save rather than Fortitude.

Armor proficiencies: As written, all clerics have the following 5 feats--Simple Weapon Proficiency, Shield Proficiency, & Light, Medium, & Heavy Armor Proficiency. As most gods with the Magic, Knowledge, Luck, & Trickery domains would be unlikely to wear full plate or carry a shield themselves, those these domains would not grant proficiency with shields or the heavier armors, but other abilities instead.

I'm not any good with adding links but I suggest you look at the Non Generic Cleric thread in the archives for some great ideas on balanced yet different cleric ideas. The authors added a PDF of their work. It's a great starting point to add some of the new ideas on this thread

Mike

Thanks--very interesting. Here's the link (not to the thread, but the final product): http://grindorsgoods.googlepages.com/nongenericcleric

[KnightErrantJR]

I have no problem with clerics getting to turn undead. One of the reasons I'm glad that Pathfinder will be backwards compatible is that if you want another type of "priestly" spellcaster, there are a few available in the rules. I know this isn't satisfying if you only want to use the Pathfinder rules, but at the same time, one of the cleric's signature abilities has always been turning, and the fact that clerics can turn is part of encounter design in a lot of 3.5 product.

We were already using the "turning damage" rule from Complete Divine, since the cleric in the party wanted to turn undead, but just felt helpless. If it worked, they ran away, fine, but if not, he didn't really do anything that round.

I was worried that he had become happy with the turning damage variant when I showed him the PF cleric, but when he read that he would still be doing damage, potentially still scaring them off, and healing his party, he loved it.

So I like that all clerics can do it, I like the PF version of it, but we'll see how it works in play. I like that even if the adventure never has anything to do with undead, the cleric's turning ability still helps out, but its less useful in combat unless you are indeed fighting undead, or else you will be healing your enemies as well.

As an aside, a feat that allows a cleric to target just his allies might not be a bad idea. I think the conundrum should exist at first (worrying about healing enemies), but there should be ways to mitigate it, as there are to mitigate other issues like this in 3.5.

[tallforadwarf]

The following bolds are mine:

elnopintan wrote:

I think that clerics must turn undead o rebuke them (or harm or domain them) if we want that the system remain backwards compatible.

So, I like this power as it is in this alpha release.
It gives to the party another source of healing, and remain giving a power like in 3.5

Here here!

FeranEldritchKnight wrote:

Something like turning and rebuking undead is something that is intrinsic to the D&D game. It is one of those things that (to me) makes the game feel like D&D. What we need to decide as a whole is wether we want Pathfinder to feel like D&D or to feel like something else. Part of the reason I want to play 3.5 (and thus Pathfinder) is to retain the feel of D&D, which I feel 4e does not have. Moving too far from the true feeling of D&D could potentially turn customers rather than undead. :)

Yes!

Thanks to everyone who helps me cut down on typing by saying what I was going to, but sooner!

Peace,

tfad