Feedback on Core rules I: Classes, Combat, Skills


Alpha Release 1 General Discussion


Below is a few of the concerns and problems I have with the Core system and Pathfinder RPG.

Classes:

XP Tables (page 9): Please do not change the XP tables from the Core rules. Instead of changing the table by inflating the XP needed per level (500.000 xp!!) just make a sidebar or a more detailed chapter for the DM to adjust the XP granted per play session through the use of various XP Reward systems. The XP in 3.5 works great and the speed of levels really is completely in the hands of the DM. No need to give yourself extra work on something that's working well.

Skill Gain (pages 20-21): "You do not receive
additional skill choices by selecting another class at
later levels aside from those provided as a part of the
normal advancement process. Any class skills of the new
class, however, are automatically added to your list."

Concerns:
1) In 3.5 you were penalized if you wanted to go Rogue/Fighter multiclass if you chose fighter first over rogue. In Pathfinder RPG you are even more penalized (losing 6 trained skills is really really rough since it's 6x20 skill points). Is it intended that skill-wise you HAVE to minmax and take Rogue levels first in this scenario?
2) Why wouldn't everyone just choose 1 level of rogue for all those skill groups?

Fighter (page 9-11): This class needs a complete rehaul. The fighter is too weak, uninteresting and the additional weapon and armor training of +5 AC or +5 Shield needs to be reworked. Rather than giving the fighter more flexibility it restricts the class to certain weapons and armors, and leads to forcing the DM to tailor item-rewards to the fighter rather than what fits the campaign and what is "cool".
A suggestion could be to design the fighter with various abilities along the lines of the 3 archtypes of fighters: Two-handed fighter (high damage low survivability), sword'n'board (shield fighting tank), one-handed specialist (swordmaster type working with tricks and agility).
The fighter then choose (like the Core ranger) between which style fits his character.

The basic problem of both the Core Fighter and the Barbarian is the amount of damage they do is completely random. To compete with a wizard/sorcerer/cleric(!) you need to pump up strength to the max and either equip a Falchion with loads of bonuses for multipliers (magic enhancement bonuses, powerattack, weapon spec) and take Improved Critical Feat. Or use an Axe and pray for a critical hit in which case combat is over (90-120dmg in one hit at level 7-15 really ends the fight).

The problem of the fighter rests with how combat and spells work (I'll return to that concern later.) but also that other classes overshadows him; barbarian as 2-hander damage class, paladin/cleric for sword'n'board and rogue/ranger for one-handed mastery. He's a sort of jack of no trade and master of none.

Here's a few suggestions for each fighter type to get a general idea of what I mean:

Twohander Burst:
Role: Damage class. Charges into melee doing considerable damage with moderate defensive abilities and limited debuffing.
Power Source: Melee damage. This type can do very high damage on one target, or moderate damage on multiple targets.
Key Ability: Strength.
Secondary Ability: Dexterity.
Suggested 1st level abilities: 1) Once per day as an intermediate action you can grant an attack a damage bonus equal to its maximum weapon base damage (i.e.: +12 for a Greatsword). 2) As a full-round action you can make a sweeping attack with a -2 attack penalty that hits one additional foe that you threaten. You can use this ability together with Cleave (to attack 3 targets). If you have Great Cleave you instead add +4 damage to opponents you hit (you still take -2 to hit).

Sword'n'Board:
Role: Tank class. A frontline fighter that obstructs the paths of opponents towards softer targets and protects his party members through debuffing.
Power Source: Protection. This type of fighter does modest damage but the key ability lies in debuffing targets and protecting friends. This character works great in 1v1 opponent but excels when facing a crowd.
Key Ability: Dexterity.
Secondary Ability: Constitution.
Suggested 1st level abilities: 1) Everytime you hit a moving opponent through an attack of opportunity that opponent must stop its movement. Taking a 5-foot step out of a square you threaten provokes an attack of opportunity from you. 2) As a free action you can harrass an opponent you threaten giving it a -2 attack penalty to attack targets other than you. You can only harrass one creature at a time.

One-handed Mastery:
Role: Damage/debuff class. A frontline fighter that does high damage on one target but excel in surviving through defense and debuffing.
Power Source: Martial mastery. Through combinations of debuffs and self-buffs the class is highly versatile in melee combat. This character excels in 1v1 but has nothing to offer against multiple opponents.
Key Ability: Dexterity.
Secondary Ability: Intelligence.
Suggested 1st level abilities: 1) If you successfully feint an opponent for the rest of the encounter once per round a successful attack on that opponent gains a damage bonus equal to your dexterity modifier. 2) Once per encounter, as a standard action, you may analyze an opponent. Make a perception skill check (DC 10 + target's base attack modifier or Deception skill check modifier whichever is highest). If successful you may add your intelligence modifier as a Dodge bonus against attacks from that opponent until the end of the encounter (stacks with combat expertise).

I realize these abilities can also be achieved by adding feats that does the same but like the Paladin's smite or the rogue's many abilities the fighter too should have unique abilities that cannot be replicated by feats - These abilities should be designed to work well with feats and they definitely needs to scale with levels.

Rogue
Trap Sense: This is a perfect time to kill off the Trap Sense. Rogues are not stereotypical burglars. Get rid of this ability already. Instead add it as a perception skill bonus if it must be there or broaden its use to all dangers. I say just get rid of it. It's redundant.

Spellcasters:
Overall problem: Glasscanons with limited ammo at low levels, at high levels they are uberpowered with tons of options compared to other classes yet still run out of use after a few encounters. Give the class fewer "daily" spells and more "at will" spells. The 4th edition magic changes looks promising - might be worthwhile to be influenced by that.

Combat

Combat Maneuvers: Works really really well. Fantastic design.

Critical Hits: Game breaking. With feats like Devastating Blow (Combat) (page 36-37) and an axe (x3 damage) how a powerattacking 18 strength fighter can do so much damage you can't design opponents to him. Example, 12th level fighter, 18 strength, masterwork greataxe, +5 powerattack, weapon specialization, greater weapon specialization, weapon focus, greater weapon focus, part of charge or flank: +16 to hit, 6d6+45 damage. This is even completely unbuffed.
Personally I chose to lessen the impact of critical hits by going with the WotC 4th edition critical hit system (I had a houserule somewhat like it before, their's is a bit more streamlined).

Skills:

Fly: Why? The simple system in the Core rules worked great. And the feats related to fly could be worked into your model.

Otherwise the skills are nicely detailed and the system seems great. The only problem I see is that the bard/ranger greatly encroaches on the rogue's territory. Beside of that you will be massively tempted to take that one level of skilljuice from starting as rogue/bard/ranger no matter what class you are.

Sovereign Court

Christian Yde wrote:


XP Tables (page 9): Please do not change the XP tables from the Core rules. Instead of changing the table by inflating the XP needed per level (500.000 xp!!)

I think they HAVE to make a new XP Table. There isn't one in the SRD.

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