Broken weapons / armor / items

[Skeld]

I just read the sidebar on broken weapons and items. It foes without saying that their needs to be some stated DM discretion here: a broken bow would likely be patently unusable.

The -2 to attacks with a broken weapons seems too low a penalty to me. For example, an improvised weapon or non-proficient user takes a -4 to attacks. I would suggest changing the broken weapon penalty to -4 to keep it "in family" with these other penalties.

The broken armor penalty seems fine; half the bonus but double the check penalty.

The broken item penalty might also change to -4. I don't have strong feelings about this one.

Thoughts?

-Skeld

[Rhavin]

The "broken" condition only applies to damaged items, items that still have hit points. Weapons that are reduced below 0 hp are destroyed, a "broken" bow might simply have a large gash that requires a lesser pull to fire without breaking, thereby imposing the penalties to attack.

[Spyderz]

I like the broken condition...and your comment that the bow might have to be pulled a lesser amount to avoid breaking it. I have an idea for an optional rule for weapons (because it involves math) as follows: What if I went ahead and used the bow at full strength...it could break...so how about it automatically takes some damage (bypassing Hardness...it is damaged after all) maybe 1d4 or something each time you use it at full after it's gotten the broken state?

[Neithan]

"Damaged" might be a more exact term, as a really completely broken weapon is "destroyed" .

[Joey Virtue]

I think this is "Broken" mechanic is very powerful Sunder becomes one of the best combat manuver and it might be on the side of broken

[Alzrius]

Without having seen how much hardness and hit points the Pathfinder RPG will assign to items, I can already see the rules regarding broken items being problematic.

Specifically, it seems too easy to inflict these penalties on various items. All you have to do is deal more damage to them than they have hardness (which is to say, deal at least 1 hp of damage to the item), and they take pretty intense penalties.

Is your enemy wielding a +1 keen scythe? No problem! So long as you have Improved Sunder (no AoO, and a +2 bonus on the attack (?) roll), you can hit it just once out of your full attack action, and its crit range and multiplier will be busted down to almost nothing (and it's attack and damage rolls will be cut down, too)! Is your opponent's full plate too hard to get through? Don't worry! Just one quick hit and it's now no better than a chain shirt.

Seriously, the broken condition needs to be toned down, because it's going to become much too easy to put hefty penalties on weapons and armor; I can already see combat-oriented PCs doing that at the start of each battle when facing a foe.

My personal fix would be something along these lines: an item is "broken" only when reduced to half hit points or less. Broken weapons take a -1 penalty to attack and damage rolls, and broken armor grants 1 (maybe 2) less point of AC bonus than normal, and increases the armor check penalties by 1. Presuming the "broken" threshold was lowered to half hit points for everything, the current penalties to magic items, tools, etc. seem fine.