If you have been following this thread An Exciting Time A Great Time you'll know that I've been trying to get some answers to some questions.
1. What is the status of the GSL? What is a realistic date that it might be available to 3rd party companies?
2. Will 3rd Party Companies be able to create aspects of the game that are not available at the new Edition's launch? For example, if a setting is ripe with bards, but WOTC plans on releasing their official bard in a future work in 2009, will those companies be able to create their own version? This goes to the question of an existing setting's continuity.
3. Will publishing under the GSL prohibit publication of older material under the OGL?
4. This is a fluff question (so it is the least priority of the three)- but does WOTC realize that the fans and the customers are very much in tune with the process, and have their own vested interests in the GSL. That is, do they understand that this is not something just between Wizard's and the Third Parties, but that the customers are involved too. We're the ones that make decisions on our purchasing habits, not the 3rd parties themselves.
I haven't expected much, simply because of the NDA and no other reason...
However, there has been a response. I'm grateful for it, and take it as an act of good faith.
Hi All,I haven't forgotten about the questions. I chatted with people about it internally to see what information we could provide, and while I could give you some quoted answers right now, they'd be kinda lame because there are still so many unanswered questions.
I'm going to be out of the office for the next week or so, but when I am back, we'll hopefully have more information available so we can give some better answers.
Thanks,
-Mike
__________________
Gamer Zer0 (aka Mike Lescault)
Online Communities Manager
Wizards of the Coast
Let's adhere to the new policy and not say anything uncivilized. He did check in, and that is something. Here's hoping for news next week.
Yeah, but he makes it all sound several weeks off still. I've been checking every few hours, sometimes, because I thought this was something they were working on as a priority and that we could expect something soon (as in, very soon).
Thanks for all the hard work, Watcher, but I can't help but be a little discouraged. Hopefully it's for nothing.
A nice, polite stall. One would suspect that in a few weeks answers were already going to be official. But then I AM a madman...
I would hope that WoTC would tell the game companies who signed the NDA points 1-3 first.
It may be that they realize they screwed up by not getting it out to 3rd parties sooner, and having already missed the window where people were willing to pay the $5,000 they're taking the time to try and fix some of the issues.
If I had to guess what the delay was, I'd assume legal is trying to make it more restrictive, and the D&D group is trying to make it less. Because if it's held up, it's held up by corporate/legal, and I've never seen a lawyer argue against making a license more restrictive.
...I'd assume legal is trying to make it more restrictive, and the D&D group is trying to make it less...
That would explain a lot.
|
Because if it's held up, it's held up by corporate/legal, and I've never seen a lawyer argue against making a license more restrictive.
Just for the record, looking out for your client's interest is a lawyer's job. If that means making sure they don't give away what they don't want to give away [legally], then so be it.
But you may be right, it may be the legal department that's holding this up. Out of curiosity, has anyone heard anything about Hasbro being involved in major deals/lawsuits, the type of things that would displace priority of a "mere license?"
I would hope that WoTC would tell the game companies who signed the NDA points 1-3 first.
What you've said makes complete and total sense, but lacks any sense of finesse or understanding.
Of course they should. And of course they will. That's not why I asked them. And that's not why they answered.
An interesting point (the lawyers arguing for more restriction and the R&D people arguing for less). If that's the case, I'll offer up a full apology for some of the negativity this delay has fostered in me.
Just for the sake of discussion, I could see this as happening. The lawyers, naturally, want to protect their client (Hasbro? or WotC?), while the R&D people have to try and convince them that loosing a bit of their control over 3rd parties may seem foolish in the short term but is really wise in the long term. It's something that, if handled poorly, could really generate some unneeded hatred of the game that the best rules system on earth couldn't fix. Having quality 3rd party publishers on board producing 4E material will be very important.
If someone from WotC happens to be reading this I'd like to add that I really, really can't stress enough how important it is for 3rd party publishers to be allowed to:
1. Create new and original Classes.
2. Create new and original Races.
3. Create new and original feats and abilities.
4. Create new and original Monsters.
5. Publish material under the old OGL if they should so choose.
6. Create new and original "tack-on" rules systems that they can add for the benefit of their setting, or just to please those people who will miss some of the rules being cut from the game.
|
If I had to guess what the delay was, I'd assume legal is trying to make it more restrictive, and the D&D group is trying to make it less. Because if it's held up, it's held up by corporate/legal, and I've never seen a lawyer argue against making a license more restrictive.
Unfortunately, your guess is logical and fits all the facts. The follow up question, of course, is guess who is going to win in a conflict between designers and the legal team? Not too promising.
The longer the gsl is delayed, the more concerned I become.
Just for the record, looking out for your client's interest is a lawyer's job. If that means making sure they don't give away what they don't want to give away [legally], then so be it.
It's interesting that in this matter the legal decision are particularly intertwined with marketing strategies. I can't imagine what the meetings between the different departments must be like over there at WotC.
Trying to imagine this makes me a lot more sympathetic toward the designers, who are simultaneously getting blasted for their crappy PR.
Imagining this makes me a lot more sympathetic toward the designers, who are simultaneously getting blasted for their crappy PR.
I don't think the parent company really provided any resources for PR, meaning that regular WotC people were probably trying to do it in spare moments around drafting the new core books and put together DDI.
Not an enviable task, and partly explains why so many things have gone so wrong in the marketing/PR area.
What you've said makes complete and total sense, but lacks any sense of finesse or understanding.
Of course they should. And of course they will. That's not why I asked them. And that's not why they answered.
Sorry, I didn't mean to come off so brusque. Keep fighting the good fight!
Sorry, I didn't mean to come off so brusque. Keep fighting the good fight!
God I'm a jerk. :(
I'm sorry Shroomy, that was uncalled for.
This crud is wearing me out. I wish it was over with.
|
|
I wish it was over with, as well. I appreciate your patience, Watcher. But this is crazy. I really thought it was going to be sooner than this latest reply implies.
Which is fine. If the 3rd AP is 3.5, Paizo will get a whole lot more of my money as I continue to buy all their products. Still, if this is half as important to WotC as they claim (or they feel half as bad about it as they claim) then it should have been dealt with already. If there is a good excuse for not doing so, I'd love to hear it.
If there is not, own up and fix it.
If I close my eyes and pretend it's not happening will it make it go faster?
Let's pretend we're in a movie.
You can be this young guy with this dream to win some national DnD championship in order to impress some improbably hot chick (played by Mandy Moore), and maybe even force WOTC to give up the GSL.
I can be your annoying friend who helps you cross the country to get to the Convention, who is mostly a hinderance except when it's really important. Along the way we'll be beset by jerks, who we'll foil with wit and trickery.
In the course of our adventures we'll have cameos by everyone on the board... They will cheer you on. DeadDM, Kruelaid, Lilith, Sebastian, Vomit Guy, Mothman, Charles Evans, Pygon.. hell there's too many to name.
It'll be like the original Muppet Movie. We'll have walk on parts for everybody, like Wolfgang Baur, Nick Logue, and Steve Greer.
James Jacobs and Erik Mona can have a brief bit where they're analogs of Jay and Silent Bob (we'll let them sort out which is which).
Hmmm... need more bad guys to make it exciting. And a catchy title..
Okay! That killed about three minutes of waiting! Your turn Daigle!
|
|
If I close my eyes and pretend it's not happening will it make it go faster?Let's pretend we're in a movie.
You can be this young guy with this dream to win some national DnD championship in order to impress some improbably hot chick (played by Mandy Moore), and maybe even force WOTC to give up the GSL.
I can be your annoying friend who helps you cross the country to get to the Convention, who is mostly a hinderance except when it's really important. Along the way we'll be beset by jerks, who we'll foil with wit and trickery.
In the course of our adventures we'll have cameos by everyone on the board... They will cheer you on. DeadDM, Kruelaid, Lilith, Sebastian, Vomit Guy, Mothman, Charles Evans, Pygon.. hell there's too many to name.
It'll be like the original Muppet Movie. We'll have walk on parts for everybody, like Wolfgang Baur, Nick Logue, and Steve Greer.
James Jacobs and Erik Mona can have a brief bit where they're analogs of Jay and Silent Bob (we'll let them sort out which is which).
Hmmm... need more bad guys to make it exciting. And a catchy title..
Okay! That killed about three minutes of waiting! Your turn Daigle!
haha
you guys are great!
If I close my eyes and pretend it's not happening will it make it go faster?Let's pretend we're in a movie.
You can be this young guy with this dream to win some national DnD championship in order to impress some improbably hot chick (played by Mandy Moore), and maybe even force WOTC to give up the GSL.
I can be your annoying friend who helps you cross the country to get to the Convention, who is mostly a hinderance except when it's really important. Along the way we'll be beset by jerks, who we'll foil with wit and trickery.
Hmmm... need more bad guys to make it exciting. And a catchy title..
If it's not already taken, can I be the insufferable preppy jerk who is supposedly unstoppable at the new rules (fixed, naturally) and mocks your and Daigle's arrogance to think you could even compete with me, only to be utterly and resoundingly defeated after a suitably climactic round of competition?
Hey, at least it's not one of those movies where I would try to kill you and fail, resulting in my life being in peril, and end up finishing myself off because when you tried to save me, I went for the kill and misjudged the force required to do so.
Because that would be less fun.
|
If I close my eyes and pretend it's not happening will it make it go faster?Let's pretend we're in a movie.
It'll be like the original Muppet Movie.
Sounds more like Borat, D&D style. Can I play the dumb frat guy who sticks his foot in his mouth? If not, what about the prostitute on the mechanical bull?
Watcher:
You seemed at a bit of a low point last night in the Chatroom, but I'm pleased to learn that you've picked yourself up to cary on. Keep up the good work! Even slow progress is nevertheless progress.
Thanks. :)
It's been hard lately. I really had to step back from the 4E boards the last two days. My posting slowed down.
I'm doing well though. It's Friday and next week will be here soon, and the chance of seeing the GSL will rise.
|
Watcher:
You seemed at a bit of a low point last night in the Chatroom, but I'm pleased to learn that you've picked yourself up to cary on. Keep up the good work! Even slow progress is nevertheless progress.Thanks. :)
It's been hard lately. I really had to step back from the 4E boards the last two days. My posting slowed down.
I'm doing well though. It's Friday and next week will be here soon, and the chance of seeing the GSL will rise.
Please keep at it. I'm looking forward to seeing answers to your questions.
|
|
OOOOH.
Maybe we could do a more suspense/thriller.
Watcher is the wise man who actually knows whats going on, but he can't say, because someone is watching him. But one of the young guys is trying to find out all about the GSL.
And we can have all the WotC staff serving as the people who try to stop the investigation at every step, but all the board members can help him out in little ways.
And then at the end, he can go running out saying 'The GSL...It's PEOPLE!!!!'
Imagining this makes me a lot more sympathetic toward the designers, who are simultaneously getting blasted for their crappy PR.
I don't think the parent company really provided any resources for PR, meaning that regular WotC people were probably trying to do it in spare moments around drafting the new core books and put together DDI.Not an enviable task, and partly explains why so many things have gone so wrong in the marketing/PR area.
Yes, exactly. I mean the WotC guys are meeting with the lawyers and it's a s!%*storm.
Meanwhile the same WotC guys are getting the s++#storm from gamers and from above about PR.
That's what I meant.
Trying to imagine this makes me a lot more sympathetic toward the designers, who are simultaneously getting blasted for their crappy PR.
Read, Trey, read.
;)
Read, Trey, read.
;)
I did. I was agreeing with you, you contentious...
*<Trey's heart becomes gripped with terror at the thought that Joshua might appear and ask him to be polite.>*
... uh, fellow message-board poster.
;) right back atcha. :)
Because if it's held up, it's held up by corporate/legal, and I've never seen a lawyer argue against making a license more restrictive.Just for the record, looking out for your client's interest is a lawyer's job. If that means making sure they don't give away what they don't want to give away [legally], then so be it.
But you may be right, it may be the legal department that's holding this up. Out of curiosity, has anyone heard anything about Hasbro being involved in major deals/lawsuits, the type of things that would displace priority of a "mere license?"
Could it have something to do with the toy recalls (Toys made in China had lead paint)?
I did. I was agreeing with you, you contentious...
Oops.
lol.
Sorry.
Could it have something to do with the toy recalls (Toys made in China had lead paint)?
Maybe there are some legal problems with them printing the GSL on the skins of dead Chinese babies.
This post is made entirely in jest and is intended to make light of the radical horror expressed by 4E protestors.
I am definitely Jay, and James is definitely Silent Bob.
BERSERKER!
This ... makes sense. :)
I am definitely Jay, and James is definitely Silent Bob.
BERSERKER!
The clit commander?