I just got done reading what 4E has planned for Forgotten Realms and all I can say is: I'm out. I buy every FR novel every month. Last time I counted I have over 150. I have three trilogies that I will finish reading, then I will never buy another novel again. Screw up the game mechaninc, fine. trash FR, Ok what ever. jump the story a hundred years and kill off every @#%$ing character that isn't an elf from every author? Bull $#!+! If I was one of these authors I'd be pissed! My wife and I figured it up and we were spending over $500 a year on WoTC products. We're out.
I had this same initial reaction to Dragonlance when the removed the Pantheons. It was such a slog trying to get through the books as they callously murdered character after character.
isn't Drizz't from every author?
Fixed.
Y'know I really wonder if the authors are even going to do the timewarp, or if they will split the setting Star Wars style into eras of play--with the Year of Rogue Dragons era and the Year of Crazy Crap Falling Out of the Freakin' Sky era.
I think something like that would be fun for a lot of reasons. Foremost of which is that there are a LOT of fun eras in Forgotten Realms--thousands of years and tons of Empires past and present. It might be fun to break it open and start getting some love for parts of the setting long neglected.
That said, yeah it's weird that all the signature characters are going the way of the dinosaur. Weird stuff.
I agree that a few aspects of the FR setting (such as the chosen and mystra) needed to be slapped around and down a bit, but I think their passing could have been better handled over time.
The mass slaughter of deities, the cosmological revision, the revamp of magic, the effective extinction of duregar, tyr and helm dueling to helm's death, half the drow pantheon slain by mortal hands, etc etc... (I mean, one fallen deity here and there is fine and has happened before, but when it coincides with the entire above list... ) ...the word coincidence doesn't even begin to describe it.
I would have also liked them to put out a manual or two (along with more novels) for Kara-Tur, Zakhara and Maztica... before they decided to distort and rehash the realms to make it the ideal fit for their new version of the game, instead of just creating a new setting for it. But alas, that would have taken resources away from the MMORPG conversion, and making a new setting is more difficult than mining a previous one.
I would have enjoyed the opportunity to purchase new regional books as 3.5 fleshed out all of Toril... instead of buying the "same but different now" regional books all over again. (Before I am again denied the oportunity to see Kara-tur, Zakhara and Maztica vamped up in 4th edition clothing.)
...Although they could still put out more timeline history books with maps for the rest of Toril and the wider spaces in time left open.
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From novels and short stories:
Character's that we know are still around: Drizzt and Elminster.
Character's that might still be around: The Seven Sisters, Everis Cale, Manshoon, elves from the Last Mythal trilogy (can't remember specific character's), Szass Tam, Jarlaxle, Fzoul Chembryl, the various members of the ruling family of Shade Enclave, various and sundry drow.
Character's who are more than likely dead: Cattie-Brie, Wulfgar, Regis, Bruenor, Mirt, Durnan, Artemis Entreri, Jherek & friends (from The Threat from the Sea Trilogy), the Uskevren Family (from Sembia books).
That's all I can think of for now.
Oh yeah - Happy Mardi Gras!
I'll miss Danilo and Arilyn the most, I think. Competency w/o superhuman powers can be SO hard to find . . . and the Reclamation novel is coming out in November according to Amazon to finish things up with them.
I will also mourn the passing of Bruenor Battlehammer. Not too many of the others, though.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Character's who are more than likely dead: Cattie-Brie, Wulfgar, Regis, Bruenor, Mirt, Durnan, Artemis Entreri, Jherek & friends (from The Threat from the Sea Trilogy), the Uskevren Family (from Sembia books).
Oh gods, so we've 5 years (until the next rules revision/RSE) to listen to Drizzt whine 'Poor Catie Brie, if only I'd confessed how I felt to her before she became all corpsified..." *Blech*
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Oh gods, so we've 5 years (until the next rules revision/RSE) to listen to Drizzt whine 'Poor Catie Brie, if only I'd confessed how I felt to her before she became all corpsified..." *Blech*
But, and that is one of the few good things of the time jump: We are spared 100 years of Drizzts' ramblings about life, love and the ret of it. :-)
Disclaimer: I still read R.A. Salavatore Books with Drizzt in.
Character's that might still be around: The Seven Sisters, Everis Cale, Manshoon, elves from the Last Mythal trilogy (can't remember specific character's), Szass Tam,
I think it was confirmed that Szass Tam is still around, though I can't remember where I saw it.
I don't know how any lich could survive something like the Spellplague, though...relying as they do on magic for their very existence. Don't know how any Chosen of Mystra could survive it, either. But then, the Spellplague is a Plot Hammer, and Plot Hammers always work exactly as their authors itend, regardless of logic.
One thing I find interesting: the "current year" in FR is 1376 DR (I think). According to Grand History of the Realms, the Spellplague doesn't happen until 1385 DR. Why would the designers set this event a decade in the future instead of just saying "it happens right now?"
I suspect it's to allow a bit of leeway for pre-Spellplague novel series that are still in progress, so they have time to wrap up before the world blows up. It's interesting, though, that there's still a decade of potential game time left to adventure in the old-school Realms without breaking official continuity. Could this be a concession to gamers who still want to play in the pre-Spellplague Realms, or could it be a bit of bet-hedging on WotC's part in case fans resoundingly reject the 100-year leap (giving room to retcon it out of existence if necessary)?
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-snip- or could it be a bit of bet-hedging on WotC's part in case fans resoundingly reject the 100-year leap (giving room to retcon it out of existence if necessary)?
Could be the DALLAS effect for 5th edition: Elminster wakes up from a particulary bad dream to see that it is the year 1386 and no spellplague happened. What happened was one ale to much. But he just had to order it from the buxom wench in his favorite pub...
Coul be the DALLAS effect for 5th edition: Elminster wakes up from a particulary bad dream to see that it is the year 1386 and no spellplague happened. What happened was one ale to much. But he just had to order it from the buxom wench in his favorite pub...
Then El looks out the window and sees Storm Silverhand chopping wood in the nude. He heaves a happy sigh of relief.
Has ANYONE heard any comments by Ed Greenwood since they announced the changes to FR? I've been looking, but haven't found anything. I mean, my understanding is that he holds some sort of creative control or input, so maybe he was a part of the revision and if so that's cool. But if it wasn't... my god, it must be like they're ripping out a piece of his soul....
Has ANYONE heard any comments by Ed Greenwood since they announced the changes to FR? I've been looking, but haven't found anything. I mean, my understanding is that he holds some sort of creative control or input, so maybe he was a part of the revision and if so that's cool. But if it wasn't... my god, it must be like they're ripping out a piece of his soul....
He's really worried about the future of the Realms, he says, but he won't jump ship yet. He wants to see where it goes and he will try to salvage what he can when he writes his contracted 50,000 words for the 4E Setting book. He will be writing about other continents not yet explored in past editions.
Unfortunately, Maztica is gone. Subsumed by this sudden "New World" called Abeir. Apparently, Forgotten Realms always had TWO worlds and now they both melded together, it seems. Makes no damn sense to me. Just some stupid plot to throw in to explain the crap they're doing to the setting.
I loved the Mesoamerican/Aztec-styled setting. It showed the diversity of the Realms and gave a nod towards people who wanted to campaign in that sort of "New World" setting. Too bad they never embellishes on it.
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"He's really worried about the future of the Realms"
Hmm...that's not the impression I got from the interview he had with Wolfgang Baur in Kobold Quarterly #3, which is a great place to look for what Ed Greenwood actually has to say.
This isn't to say that I thought he was tremendously excited about the changes, but he didn't seem worried either.
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J K Rowling couldn't fatally kill off Harry Potter. It will be interesting to see if R A Salvatore, even with the theoretical 'out' of old-age (theoretical given that the FR is hardly short of ways to ignore ageing effects), can part company with Catti-Brie. Writers can get very attached to their favourite characters, and I would imagine that the same can hold true for professional fantasy authors. Especially if they have stories that they still want to tell about characters/their relationships with one another.
Yeah it would be fun if Ed and R.A. would combine their effords and tell a story of Drizzt and Elminster in the nursing home. Elminster constantly pinching nurses' backsides while Drizzt uses his two crutches to give effect in the fight for the best seats at the fireplace.
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Of Drizzt and Cattie-Brie, I read the latest book and
Ed Greenwood has always been diplomatic about TSR/WotC's changes to the Realms. His philosophy is that the published Realms stopped being his when he sold it to TSR in 1985. He still has his home campaign version, which differs greatly from the published version (he never even implemented the Time of Troubles in his home game).
He's always just rolled with the punches and done his job.
Still, although he'd never say it in so many words, I'm sure he's not best pleased about the 100-year-jump or the Spellplague, unless he's a lot more zen than I give him credit for.. He'll be disappointed to not be able to write about most of his favorite characters anymore (the Seven Sisters, Mystra, Mirt, Vangerdahast, etc.), and will be annoyed that his lifetime's worth of copious Realms notes (the source of all his columns from Polyhedron, Dragon, and the WotC website) will now be irrelevant ancient history.
Ultimately, though, he's probably made his peace that it's just a matter of doing more work-for-hire for another variant of his Realms.
You probably won't see much more from him in the Elminster's Everwinking Eye/Realmslore column format...that stuff was all based on his own existing notes. I doubt Ed knows much more than we do about the minutiae of the 1479 DR Realms.
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He's really worried about the future of the Realms, he says, but he won't jump ship yet. He wants to see where it goes and he will try to salvage what he can when he writes his contracted 50,000 words for the 4E Setting book. He will be writing about other continents not yet explored in past editions.
Where did he say that?
I never realised he saw himself as Admiral Adama.
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From novels and short stories:
Character's that we know are still around: Drizzt and Elminster.
Character's who are more than likely dead: Cattie-Brie, Wulfgar, Regis, Bruenor, Mirt, Durnan, Artemis Entreri, Jherek & friends (from The Threat from the Sea Trilogy), the Uskevren Family (from Sembia books).
That's all I can think of for now.
Oh yeah - Happy Mardi Gras!
MWAHAhAHAHAHA ! you fools are underestimating the new greatest 4e power source of them all : Marketing !
Let's say that conveniently all those characters were held for some unexplainable reason locked out of time by the spellplague, and they have just been released into the world again, shall we ?
MWAHAHAHAHAHA ?
What ? makes no sense ? Whatever, given the rest...
Hey, Okay, I AM making this up, but you know, there is a pattern.
I just got done reading what 4E has planned for Forgotten Realms and all I can say is: I'm out.
Ah, you are now where I was a couple of months ago.
I buy every FR novel every month. Last time I counted I have over 150.
I was the same. I had them all. Every. Single. Novel.
I have three trilogies that I will finish reading, then I will never buy another novel again.
Neither will I (well, I will buy novels, but not from wizards of the cost). And I won't buy miniatures any more, either (I have complete sets up to the next-to-latest, and nothing after that). Or anything else.
And I won't finish reading the trilogies I've started. In fact, I have three books I ordered and won't read.
I just completely lost interest in the Realms.
Screw up the game mechaninc, fine. trash FR, Ok what ever. jump the story a hundred years and kill off every @#%$ing character that isn't an elf from every author?
They had me out with the "trash the realms" part. The worst thing you can do is adapt a setting to a set of rules. The story should not be enslaved by the rules. And any ruleset that requires it is useless. Any company who does something like that shows their incompetence.
Bull $#!+! If I was one of these authors I'd be pissed! My wife and I figured it up and we were spending over $500 a year on WoTC products. We're out.
It 2-3 times the amount here.
I think something like that would be fun for a lot of reasons. Foremost of which is that there are a LOT of fun eras in Forgotten Realms--thousands of years and tons of Empires past and present. It might be fun to break it open and start getting some love for parts of the setting long neglected.
But only the authors can play in those eras. Since they had to mess up the realms to make it work with the new rules (since they were too incompetent to do it the other way around), the rules don't apply to those eras (and before anyone mentions: "But you can just go and use the rules like that" consider this: wizards seems to be convinced that you may not, and discourages it by inventing this sorry excuse for an explanation why the rules are different)
In the end, the change like that is either incompetence (not able to make the rules work with the story) or lying greed (doing away with a setting, making a new setting, but giving it the name of the old so they can cash in on the brand name).
As a customer, I accept neither.
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From novels and short stories:
Character's that we know are still around: Drizzt and Elminster.
Character's who are more than likely dead: Cattie-Brie, Wulfgar, Regis, Bruenor, Mirt, Durnan, Artemis Entreri, Jherek & friends (from The Threat from the Sea Trilogy), the Uskevren Family (from Sembia books).
That's all I can think of for now.
Oh yeah - Happy Mardi Gras!
MWAHAhAHAHAHA ! you fools are underestimating the new greatest 4e power source of them all : Marketing !
Let's say that conveniently all those characters were held for some unexplainable reason locked out of time by the spellplague, and they have just been released into the world again, shall we ?
MWAHAHAHAHAHA ?
What ? makes no sense ? Whatever, given the rest...
Hey, Okay, I AM making this up, but you know, there is a pattern.
Yay! Chronomancy fixes everything!
Could be the DALLAS effect for 5th edition: Elminster wakes up from a particulary bad dream to see that it is the year 1386 and no spellplague happened. What happened was one ale to much. But he just had to order it from the buxom wench in his favorite pub...
How’s this for something to do once 5E comes out - a “prevent the spellplague” campaign using 3.5. If the PCs succeed, they get to play in 5E, if they fail, 4E.
"He's really worried about the future of the Realms"
Hmm...that's not the impression I got from the interview he had with Wolfgang Baur in Kobold Quarterly #3, which is a great place to look for what Ed Greenwood actually has to say.
This isn't to say that I thought he was tremendously excited about the changes, but he didn't seem worried either.
You have to see his reply on Candlekeep.com, the place he frequently visits and shares more of his feelings than a mere interview. It's not hard to find on Candlekeep's forums. In it, he states his dismay and worries, and the fact he spoke his mind to WotC about these changes. They nodded, thanked him for his valuable input, and just sent him on his merry way back to the drawing board with his words going in one ear and out the other, the dollar signs shining in their eyes too brightly.
He admits to not saying much more because he doesn't want to affect the sales and he's under that damned NDA.
Artemis Entrerie has the wierd shade-touched thing going on which may extend his life long enough to survive into this era. Unfortunatly the end of the sellswords trilogy shot him out of the water as his old self and ended with him essentially walking away from ever being an assassin again. =(
MWAHAhAHAHAHA ! you fools are underestimating the new greatest 4e power source of them all : Marketing !
From what I've seen of 4E's marketing, I would call it less of a power and more of a form or retardation. Good marketing doesn't spend alot of time telling it's base how bad their old product sucks.
If Paizo switches editions with Pathfinder and Golarion I will still buy APs, adventures and supplements.
If, however, Paizo pulled a huge retcon or world change so that Golarion was beaten into a form that fits with a new edition of the game, that would kill my interest.
I would rather have the rules tweaked to fit the world than the world tweaked to fit the rules.
I fully intend to continue to support Paizo and Pathfinder, they have done nothing but good things for D&D as a whole. Wizards and Hasbro are the one's that I have issues with.
MWAHAhAHAHAHA ! you fools are underestimating the new greatest 4e power source of them all : Marketing !
Dude, seriously, lay off the acid. You're hallucinating. Their marketting department appears to be made up of two bards, one a 1st level playing inspire confidence on a kazoo and the other an epic level playing countersong with a grand piano.
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"He's really worried about the future of the Realms"
Hmm...that's not the impression I got from the interview he had with Wolfgang Baur in Kobold Quarterly #3, which is a great place to look for what Ed Greenwood actually has to say.
This isn't to say that I thought he was tremendously excited about the changes, but he didn't seem worried either.
You have to see his reply on Candlekeep.com, the place he frequently visits and shares more of his feelings than a mere interview. It's not hard to find on Candlekeep's forums. In it, he states his dismay and worries, and the fact he spoke his mind to WotC about these changes. They nodded, thanked him for his valuable input, and just sent him on his merry way back to the drawing board with his words going in one ear and out the other, the dollar signs shining in their eyes too brightly.
He admits to not saying much more because he doesn't want to affect the sales and he's under that damned NDA.
Personaly the more i read about 4ed and the spellplague crapi have pretty moch lost all interest in the books and the novels.
The books a will keep for my games the novel are going the the use bookstore pretty soon or the trash can.the same for the comic book
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