...can spoil a whole barrel.
The last time that our D&D group met, a long time irritant came to the forefront. There is one player who I don't care for, as a person or as a player, who seems to lessen the experience of it for everyone else (although my own opinions of the player in question may be coloring that opinion).
When we play she often spends a great deal of time either engaging in pointless sidetracks, that often send the rest of the group off into the weeds or insulting the DM for their DMing style, the campaign for it's story, NPCs and writing, and the othe players on their roleplaying.
She complains when we spend an entire session roleplaing our characters (not necassarily advancing the story much, just having fun with our characters and telling their story and displaying their personalities) but then when we spend most of a session in combat she also complains that we never do any roleplaying. Needless to say, this gets very annoying. Sometimes she says that she never gets a chance to roleplay and has asked to take 'turns' roleplaying the way we do with combat. This wouldn't work, as most of our roleplaying is spontaneous and putting an artificial and arbitrary rules system on it would pretty much kill it. I don't even know why she plays as she doesn't seem to really enjoy any facet of our games.
It's somewhat discouraging when one of your players vocally and repeatedly b%#*%es about every element of your campaign but gives few specifics other than laughing at your NPCs, giving you a hard time about how you DM, and makes fun of your logic and storylines. It's also hard as a player when this other player makes constant fun of your character and your RPing (not good natured fun either, we spend a lot of time teasing each other and each other's characters but what she does is always more along the lines of "Your character is stupid. How you roleplay that character is stupid. Everything about it is stupid").
Then when I try to make the campaign more suitable to her tastes she just keeps on b%$&+ing about it.
She's also the kind of person who will b*~*+ and whine about something, worrying an issue and going over something (often arguing about it) for a long time after it's happened.
The real problem is that I can't ask her to leave. She is the youngest member of the group (our group ranges from 11-18 years of age) and is also friends with at least one other member of the group (also a friend of mine). I know that at least one other member of the group doesn't like her, but I still can't just ask her to leave, especially since that would probably put our mutual friends in the difficult spot of choosing one friend over the other. In addition, it would make certain political issues come up, such as the fact that then I would become the villian in the eyes of the parental units (since that is how she would tell it) and it might make it so that her brother (a player who I value) might not be able to come, in addition to making the whole group uncomfortable.
I try not to let real life issues cloud my judgement at the table, although it may be corrupting my objectivity.
Some of the dynamics in the group really suck, although I really like the rest of the group and treasure their friendship so I'd like to resolve this as peacefully as possible.
Alright, I'm stopping now. I'm rambling and probably sounding a little whiny/pathetic. Advice appreciated.
I'm open to any suggestions on how to absolve this/make it tolerable, since it has gotten to the point where I fantasize about making this player leave the group. If anyone out there has dealt with something similiar please let me know how you dealt with it; it may help me resolve this.
Ah, the diva.
Easy fix: Make her DM.
Unfortunately we don't get together often so that would be distasteful. I also doubt that I could actually convince her to DM (although suggestions on how that would be accomplihed would be appreciated).
Well you can either talk with her about it or you can keep suffering your little fantasies. ;)
And in the end, if she's being disruptive to the fun of the rest, she has got to go, the greater good means more then a single individual.
Apathy just means you're going to break first.
If I understand correctly, this is an 11 year old you are dealing with. Here is my advice.
Set some ground rules with the group about what criticism may or may not be voiced at a session. If she complains, ask her to give her complaints in writing. (A sure deterrent.). Give ultimatums. Make sure that you are not alone in your opinions. Be fair.
let each character be the centre of attention at least once a session. When her character is roleplaying, reward it. When she b****es and moans and it makes no sense, ask her to save it for after the game.
Lastly, if you can't stand her, ask her to leave, but give her a warning first.
If her brother leaves too, so be it. Perhaps you will need a new group. Unlike me, you live in a country that shares your language, so you should have few problems finding other gamers.
Don't let things slide. If she is playing metagames, put a stop to it. You should spend your time on the characters, not the players.
Well you can either talk with her about it or you can keep suffering your little fantasies. ;)
And in the end, if she's being disruptive to the fun of the rest, she has got to go, the greater good means more then a single individual.Apathy just means you're going to break first.
That's what's been suggested before, talking to her. Unfortunately I have a very hard time seeing that ending very well, and I'm not sure what I'd actually say (something other than "Get the hell away from me!). I'm also not actually sure if the rest of the group has a similiar problem or if it's just me.
If I understand correctly, this is an 11 year old you are dealing with. Here is my advice.
Set some ground rules with the group about what criticism may or may not be voiced at a session. If she complains, ask her to give her complaints in writing. (A sure deterrent.). Give ultimatums. Make sure that you are not alone in your opinions. Be fair.
let each character be the centre of attention at least once a session. When her character is roleplaying, reward it. When she b@~%~es and moans and it makes no sense, ask her to save it for after the game.
Lastly, if you can't stand her, ask her to leave, but give her a warning first.
If her brother leaves too, so be it. Perhaps you will need a new group. Unlike me, you live in a country that shares your language, so you should have few problems finding other gamers.
Don't let things slide. If she is playing metagames, put a stop to it. You should spend your time on the characters, not the players.
This is a good idea and I think I'll try it.
I do award XP for good RP and I let a character be in the spotlight if that character does something to be in the spotlight. Unfortunately this never happens for her because she sits in her chair making snide comments and just rolling the dice.I don't think her brother would leave if she did, at least not by his own choice (he complains about similiar things regarding her) but their mother (who is very protective of the irritant) might just stop bringing them.
She doesn't play metagame; she just sits there and is unpleasant. I;m going to have to have a talk with her but if that doesn't work things could get ugly.
I hate being under 18/having more immature members of the group.
Tough situation. Talk to her brother about the problems you are having with his sister. Maybe he can propose something better.
They don't always get a long. In fact they never seem to get a long. When I have a conversation with her I think I need to do it when he's not around, as he could make it a lot harder.
I'll talk to him, hopefully he'll have something productive to add.
It is entirely possible that her enjoyment stems from ruining her brother's game more than playing her own.
It is entirely possible that her enjoyment stems from ruining her brother's game more than playing her own.
It's certainly possible, she is rather vindictive, although their family is/was an RPG family, so she's ben playing since she was like 6.
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She's only 11, and appears to be trying to grab attention - maybe her brother's, maybe yours, maybe someone else's. I would ask her (nicely) how she finds the game - don't say you find her disruptive. Ask her about what she likes in the game, and what she doesn't. You might get somethinguseful, though you probably won't, but at least you can say you tried. And DO NOT LOSE YOUR TEMPER.
And cheer up - she is 11, possibly with all sorts of hormones buzzing through her system she isn't used to, which might be affecting her behaviour. As she grows older, she might get more into it and calm down, or find something else to do with other friends. I suspect this isn't a situation that will persist for too long. Also, if her family play RPGs, you might want to talk to her parents - they are more likely to understand (don't say she is a pain in the backside, just that she seems not to be enjoying herself fully in the game and it is a bit disruptive).
...I hate being under 18/having more immature members of the group.
Ah, if only it were that easy. People over the age of 18 aren't always that better. As long as there are DM's there are going to be problem players. Even when you think you've gotten past all that, problem players will materialize at the table. But hey, gaming with real people is what makes the game great right?
I'm not trying to paint a bleak picture, I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone.
There must be some reason that she's playing with you guys and it's probably because she enjoys it (even if it doesn't seem that way). I know she seems impossible but try and keep your cool and be patient with her. Remember she's the youngest in a group of a pretty big age spread. She's only 11 and she's gaming with much older people - that's a little intimidating. She probably looks up to you guys (again, I know it doesn't seem like it but hear me out). Her comments and criticism are probably her way of showing that's she's tough and she can run with the pack (compensating for any vulnerabilities). When you do talk to her make sure you don't throw in the possibility that she can be kicked out - it won't help (and if it comes to that then it comes to that, but saying it ahead of time might make it worse). Privately explain to her that you know that everyone jokes around but that sometimes she takes it a bit too far and that she might want to dial it back a bit. Tell her you appreciate how seriously she takes the game, but part of the game is also about having fun.
Hey if nothing helps, you got to do what you got to do. DMing is a lot of work and in the end if its not rewarding and fun for you then something has to give.
Sorry for the long post, the problem just struck a nerve. I think I've been on both sides of this one. At some point in time we were all bratty and annoying 11 year olds, but we turned out OK, right? :)
Whoops I basically said what Aubrey said, only he said it much more succinctly :)
Ah, if only it were that easy. People over the age of 18 aren't always that better.
...I hate being under 18/having more immature members of the group.
No, but their motehrs aren't as big of an issue.
I think that she does look up to some of us, and she does seem rather insecure. She may well grow up to be a fine and wonderful person but I have to deal with her now. In the mean time she is an annoying, bratty pain in the ass.
...No, but their mothers aren't as big of an issue...
Too true, too true. I am glad I don't have to deal with people's mothers anymore (I can still here my friends Mom yelling at us to get out of her basement when our sessions went too late).
Just wait until you have to deal with people's wives and husbands though :)
If you can get through to this girl you might not have to wait for her to grow up, she might just become a great asset to the group now. Overly optimistic? Probably, I usually am.
The age range is wide for a group of friends which I think is the biggest problem (family groups with age range differences are different). Wait for her to grow up. The good news is they say girls mature faster than boys (whether it is true or not I'm not going to say), but if their is any truth to it, she'll catch up eventually. If this doesn't work...have a spray bottle with water and every time she shows negative behavoir, squirt her with it. Just make sure she isn't using any of your books when you do.
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Wait for her to grow up.
That's the best advice. She's only eleven. Save the spray bottle for your true peers.
I would also advise that you conduct yourself with maturity and diplomb. It is probable that your initial reaction is to roll your eyes and sigh. This does nothing to allieviate the behavior of a whiny child, in fact it tends to have the opposite effect. Firmness, if your age and station allow it, is generally best when running a game, but always polite firmness. Never allow her to see that she is getting under your skin. Treat her complaints as valid but basically ignore them if you want. Ask her politely what she wants to get out of your game, nod your head, consider it, thank her for her input and then move on.
Tough situation. Talk to her brother about the problems you are having with his sister. Maybe he can propose something better.They don't always get a long. In fact they never seem to get a long. When I have a conversation with her I think I need to do it when he's not around, as he could make it a lot harder.
I'll talk to him, hopefully he'll have something productive to add.
They don't always get along.
So? Tough s%*&. What group of siblings does get along 100%, or even 50%, of the time? You mentioned feeling a little "pathetic" in your OP. You weren't. But what is, and I'm not trying to sound too harsh, is that no one has the brass to do anything about a simple brat. Unfortunately, it sounds like the group has just moped and panzied around the issue thus far and let her control things. She's riding high on the psychological trip you've enabled her to have.
You need to talk with her. You must remain diplomatic, but at the same time be firm and direct. Get her alone, ask her straight up: "Why do you act the way you do? You seem to hate the game and everything about it, but yet you keep coming back. What's up with that?" Tell her the way she acts is seriously not cool and hard for everyone else.
But this has to be a two-pronged assault. Her brother needs to step up to the plate and take some responsibility here, as well. You may not be able to speak to the "irritant's" mother, but her brother should. He should go to the mother first, before the little girl (and she still is just a little girl, keep that in mind) has a chance to run and complain and bring out her form of Divine Intervention. You need to talk with him about this and ask for his help; he'll help or he's feckless.
Have the brother tell his mother that her daughter is acting poorly, causing a problem for everyone else at the table. He, too, must be diplomatic but firm. Things should come around. If not, there's a deeper issue in their family at work and it's not worth the risk. Boot her and let the cards fall where they may.
If this doesn't work...have a spray bottle with water and every time she shows negative behavoir, squirt her with it.That only works with cats ;)
Meow?
Whoops, stole the Rakshasa's line...
It is a difficult situation, but perhaps some time when there's a break something like this?
You: "Hey [insert name here], everything ok? Just wondering if you were having fun with the game?"
What she says here might vary wildly from "Yeah, s'pose so." to "Not really, everyone just talks all the time and treats me like a stupid kid"
You can follow on from that with further questions (not delivered in a judgemental manner) e.g. "Oh ok. Do you think the other guys are enjoying it? I'm worried that some of them seem like they're not. Any idea why?" or "Oh that's a shame. Why do you think that is?"
Obviously I could go all day, but it basically comes down to trying to get here to see that maybe she needs to see things from others' pov. I was a counselor at a summer camp, and I've seen these techniques work. Sometimes slowly, sometimes barely but a calm, concerned manner always helps.
God I had a player just like that once. Trust me, you got to get them to just leave if they can't change. For me game became a lot more fun after I got her to leave, as well I found myself with tons of less stress. It will be hard mate, especially if you are like me and don't want to hurt people's feelings. But sometimes it just has to be fun. D&D is about having fun, and you nor her are having fun.
If this doesn't work...have a spray bottle with water and every time she shows negative behavoir, squirt her with it.
That only works with cats ;)
When we want the cats to get along, I smear them with tuna and throw them into the shower. It’s worth a shot.
Her mother who drives her to your place to play is a gamer? Dude, you have a golden opportunity here! This girl is obviously just going through her teenie-weenie years and if she's causing you a headache, you can bet your books that her brother and mother have a migraine. As such they can be your allies in this! I suggest the next time her mother drops her off, tell her in private that her daughter is being negative and disruptive and you'll have to drop her if she doesn't stop. Tell her that you'd hate to do this but she's ruining the game for you and probably the other players as well. Then tell the mother that you're ready to have this same chat with the girl; chances are the mother will have a chat with the daughter either at the same time you do or later.
You could end up losing this girl and possibly her brother, but there's also a good chance that the girl will calm down a bit or just decide to leave the game. Either way you have to be ready to follow through with what you say you will.
Meow?If this doesn't work...have a spray bottle with water and every time she shows negative behavoir, squirt her with it.That only works with cats ;)
*squirt* *squirt* *KC runs off* Wow, that was one ugly cat!
*squirt* *squirt* *KC runs off* Wow, that was one ugly cat!Meow?If this doesn't work...have a spray bottle with water and every time she shows negative behavoir, squirt her with it.That only works with cats ;)
Grumble. I am too pretty for these mean insults.
Next time we play (early January sometime) I'll ask her if she's enjoying the game since she doesn't seem to get much out of it. I'll stay diplomatic and see if I can find a way to keep the peace.
The issue with her brother is that he's the 'funny man'. He is absurd and spends most of his time making jokes and being weird and over the top. He can be a little aloof and spends most of his time giving her in particular a hard time (not only when we play either).
The group varies greatly. Next time we meet we'll be starting a new campaign (with me as DM) so I don't know what there will be. Usually we have a pretty wide range, from shallow shifter monks and grandfatherly storytellers to brutal and slightly efeminate half-orc clerics (the brother's contribution). The player in question usually plays a melee comabtant, either a paldin or fighter and often a dwarf.
EDIT: *Goes to get a bigger squirt gun, drenches KC* "Damn cat-thing. GET THE HELL OFF MY LAWN!"
Experience trasform us in better people and give us less d% to make mistakes again. Most of the times talking to her or his brother could bring a difficult situation to the relations you have as friends so you can decide talking and facing the problem once for all so if she really likes the game if the game is passions as it is for you then she will make all necesary changes to be accepted in the group but if she is there only to bother and disrupt she will feel attacked and will leave the game insulting everyone there.
Perhaps you should talk in front of the other gamers so they will testify how kind you were explaining her the problem and maybe they will take your side "against" her.
At the end you can get a changed player or lose all your group but for the next time this EXPERIENCE will give your more elements to judge if a player can be accepted or not in the group.
By a general rule people in the range of 9-13 years can play less complex RP games (superheroes, robots, etc.) So put a rule about the age of your gamers and if a player under that age really wants to play he first has to pass a trial session to see how is his/her actitude before being accepted.
You aer the Dungeon MASTER, there is not game without you so you make the rules and the players follow them.
If this doesn't work...have a spray bottle with water and every time she shows negative behavoir, squirt her with it. Just make sure she isn't using any of your books when you do.
It's often tempting to just douse the whole group.
If this doesn't work...have a spray bottle with water and every time she shows negative behavoir, squirt her with it.That only works with cats ;)When we want the cats to get along, I smear them with tuna and throw them into the shower. It’s worth a shot.
Um yeah...I don't think that I'm going to try that.
Next time we play (early January sometime) I'll ask her if she's enjoying the game since she doesn't seem to get much out of it. I'll stay diplomatic and see if I can find a way to keep the peace.
The issue with her brother is that he's the 'funny man'. He is absurd and spends most of his time making jokes and being weird and over the top. He can be a little aloof and spends most of his time giving her in particular a hard time (not only when we play either).
The group varies greatly. Next time we meet we'll be starting a new campaign (with me as DM) so I don't know what there will be. Usually we have a pretty wide range, from shallow shifter monks and grandfatherly storytellers to brutal and slightly efeminate half-orc clerics (the brother's contribution). The player in question usually plays a melee comabtant, either a paldin or fighter and often a dwarf.If she tends to end up in a fighter role, and is relatively new to the game, I can see that that might lead to long periods where she's not in the thick of the action and feeling left out. Maybe you could ask her if she'd like to consider playing a rogue? Between checking for/disarming traps, support sniping in combat (point blank shot, precise shot), 'scouting out', gather information in cities/villages, and sense motives in social situations, you ought to be able to provide something to always keep her feeling busy and in the thick of the action?
And you could give her the *responsibility* of being the only rogue in the party, (by arrangement with the other players) if you think that she might be able to handle that.
She isn't new to the game, although she's relatively new to 3.5, she's been playing for like half of her life.
I was completely serious in my post, and stand by the advice I gave. I seriously think you need to not only talk with her, directly, firmly, and diplomatically; but you also need to get her brother involved here as well. You've got a group ranging from people who either are effectively adults or very close to it, to prepubescent(s). Quite simply, this situation has been allowed to exist and empowered by lack of a proper response. The girl simply needs to be informed that this is Not Cool. She probably hasn't thought about it that way yet; about how she's negatively affecting others. If her mother is very protective and prone to taking her side, that might be giving her a skewed view that she is either always right, and/or that consequences don't apply to her.
Provided the family isn't dysfunctional/the mother isn't a nut, she should be willing to listen, particularly to her son, if he comes before her and sincerely tells her in a mature fashion that his sister, her daughter, is being a problem. He should explain the situation. If she wants to talk with the little girl, let her handle it. If she's cool with/wants you (or the brother) to do it, fine (although my guess now is that she'd rather be the one). But you need to do this first, before she comes complaining to Mommy that the guys are picking on her. Mommy will then go into defense mode. If you (meaning the brother, your friend [and perhaps with you in person, as well]) approach Mommy first, it shows respect and maturity. You're likely to get a better reaction.
If the mother isn't willing to listen to reason; if the brother refuses to help (for any reason); or if the girl continues to be a problem and disregard any and all attempt to reform her behavior; then you can say with confidence that you've got a mess before you that isn't your problem, and you can wash your hands of it. Ban her if that's what it takes and let come what may.
The way you've portrayed this, it seems to me that there may be more significance here than you realize. The girl is going into adolescence; this is an important developmental stage. She needs to learn how to act and how to socialize (meaning, understand and empathize with others). While this is by and large the responsibility of the parents and other immediate family members, every part of her environment, even the friends at the D&D table, play a part. You may just come out of this not only fixing your problem, but also acting (or having the situation act) as a role model/positive influence for her. It's amazing how seemingly insignificant acts can have huge effects, especially for children.
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Arctaris - now for the obvious.
You have to do something. This problem wont get better on its own. There is some good advice here. If you don't feel happy with any of the courses of actions suggested..
Perhaps you could discuss the issue with an outsider, a family member or teacher? who may know some of the people and their attitudes better than we do.
But remember that taking the advice and doing something is much harder than us giving it. That said, when you actually set about solving this you'll find it helps. Doing nothing means the game will just fester.
Cheers and Good Luck
I don't have a whole lot to add to the discussion, but you also might want to read some books on developmental psychology and parenting (I know you're not the parent, but you are an authority figure). If nothing else, they will help you to identify the likely underlying causes of the behaviors and some techniques on handling them. Also, books on leadership and management principles can be useful to any DM (seriously; it's amazing how much you can apply to the gaming table).
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The issue with her brother is that he's the 'funny man'. He is absurd and spends most of his time making jokes and being weird and over the top. He can be a little aloof and spends most of his time giving her in particular a hard time (not only when we play either).
To be honest, you might need to lose both of them to get a better game. It might be harsh, but I doubt he is blameless in this either. You need to think hard about what you want from the game, and what it is that anoys you so much. People come and go from gaming groups, and in any case you need an ultimate sanction as a DM.
That said, I STRONGLY suggest you continue with the course you intend above. Keep the language as neutral as possible - even "you don't seem to be getting much out of the game" might be a bit strong. By all means describe things she has actually done, but don't load them with "value" descriptions to which she could take offence. Be kind, be riendly. Even if it ends in tears, you don't want to feel like a bastard for doing it. Remember, she is a child.
You might ask her brother to stop winding her up. In fact, I strongly recommend you talk to him about her conduct, and his. Talk to them both, separately. You don't know what is going on at their home, or anything like that. I suspect that she is not the prime mover in all of this. Think about what she reacts to which kicks off the trouble - is it her brother's ribbing? Maybe she admires him and tries to get his attention (if he is aloof like that) and all she gets is abuse. These things can be complicated, so I don't envy you. But consider him too, and deal with his behaviour too if necessary.
That's excellent advice from Aubrey as well. Was her brother as she is now when he was her age? Is this how her family conducts itself? You don't need to go about trying to change that (it's way outside of anyone's control), but it all lends understanding to why she is doing what she's doing.
Great commentary from Aubrey and David Roberts. I agree that she's trying for attention and having sibling issues.
Have you considered tape recording sessions (or videoing) and playing them back to point out a few things?
I appreciate the advice everyone. I wish I'd have an opportunity to play and carry out some of it sooner.
I'm going to talk to her next time we play and ask if there's a problem with the game because she doesn't always seem to get much out of it. Hopefully I'll understand the situation better after that. Then I'll try to (gently) comment about her behavior around the table.
I'm also going to have a talk with her brother. He can be pretty overbearing sometimes and tends to kind of take the spotlight a lot, sometimes from other players.
I don't want to lose both of them, partly because, while sometimes annoying as hell, I do like the brother. Also our gaming group is a sub-group of a larger set of mutual friends so it could make things pretty awkward if we asked these two to leave.
I'll talk to them, see what happens and deal with that then.
When I first read this, I thought, "Wow, what a juvenile bid for attention."
Now, I'm convinced, since the girl in question actually IS a juvenile.
Given that most of the griping and whining seems directed at Arctaris, I'd be willing to wager that this is the D&D equivalent of the little boy who throws rocks at the girl he actually likes because he doesn't know how to properly display affection. She's at an age where she's looking for your attention, even negative attention. The notion of taking turns while roleplaying implies this as well, since she seems to want her time in the spotlight without the other players interrupting.
In the advice department, I'd say you really need to get her brother involved, but not in presenting a united front against her. Instead, he needs to lay off of goading her. That sort of back-and-forth might be their normal sibling rivalry at home, but it has no place in your game, and you need to hold him accountable for that sort of disruption as well.
Make sure everyone IS getting equal time and that she's not merely getting marginalized because she's the youngest. In a game of adults, I had a player who whined all the time because he never got a say in the party's direction. One of the other players politely pointed out that by the time discussions were made, everyone was already sick of hearing him whine and ignored him out of hand. He got the message and now chimes in where appropriate as opposed to every quiet moment that comes along.
I'd recommend a similar approach here. Reward her good behavior with moments where she can either shine in combat or engage in roleplaying with NPCs that suits her character. Don't punish bad behavior so much as nip it in the bud the moment it happens. "Now isn't the time to discuss the direction of the campaign. See me after the game if you truly think the plot is lame and we'll talk about adjusting it. Right now, it's Stromgald's action, so please be quiet."
A few diplomatic warnings and you can be firmer later, to the point where you can issue the "If you can't be respectful to everyone here, we're going to have to ask you to leave the group." Be sure to make the "we" heard. Make it clear that it's not a case of you disliking her, but of her behavior bothering everyone.
That's all I got. Hope it helps!
I have goals and styles I intend to stick to for any particualr campaign. Most games of mine aren't appropriate for 11 year olds,(WOW is that an understatement!) and thus I flat don't allow them. I have run games specifically designed for younger folks, and given them preferential attention over older players in thos games.
But it sounds like you don't get to play often enough for splitting things into multiple groups to be a good answer. Perhaps you need to begin a game with a totally different, older, more seirous group so your problems with this group are a smaller percentage of your total gaming time?
Her whining isn't just directed at me; but at anyone who DMs (admittedly that's usually me but not always) and it is probably a little bit of a bid for attention; I'm also not sure if she is playing because she wants to play or because it's what the rest of the group does. In the past she's done things just because everyone else is so it isn't out of the realm of possibility.
Part of why I have a hard time giving her character moments when she can really shine is that she almost always forgets her character sheet and so I either have to pause the game so that she can create a new character (which is never popular with the rest of the group nor with me) or use one that has been pre-created and she never has enthusiasm for those.
I have goals and styles I intend to stick to for any particualr campaign. Most games of mine aren't appropriate for 11 year olds,(WOW is that an understatement!) and thus I flat don't allow them. I have run games specifically designed for younger folks, and given them preferential attention over older players in thos games.
Heh, I wish our group did campaigns like that. Between the sister's issues, the funny man's jokes, and the rest of the group's lack of interest in a darker campaign I don't seem to get any such games.
The person who DMed the Skinsaw Murders (not me) was appalled at some of the materiel therein and edited it. She's doing the same to Hook Mountain Massacre (although that I'm less disappointed about).But it sounds like you don't get to play often enough for splitting things into multiple groups to be a good answer. Perhaps you need to begin a game with a totally different, older, more seirous group so your problems with this group are a smaller percentage of your total gaming time?
No, splitting groups isn't a viable solution. Unfortunately I live about an hour and a half from the rest of the group (or really from the nearest gamers) so I can't really organise another group. It would be nice if that were a good alternative but it isn't.
Hahahaha.... you're doomed! ;-P
Seriously: The situation sounds bad. If she's really as bad as you say, I'd have kicked her out long before. If she makes playing unconfortable, than why play?
I'v seen a campaign or two run its course with one player acting like an ass, and the DM wouldn't (or couldn't) do anything about it. They crashed, and there were bad feelings all around.
I can't tell you what to do, only what I do: Problem players are uninvited. I don't care much what sort of politics there is behind it, I just do it, even if it ends the campaign. For me, not playing at all is still better than playing badly. I have to look forward to the game, not dread it.
I guess you have to ask yourself whether her having around isn't too much. Whether talking to her, maybe even kicking her out won't be better in the long run than enduring her. You also have to think about whether this won't sour relations between anyone, anyway.
I have some good news and some bad news. The good news is you are not alone in dealing with disruptive players who are difficult to remove from the game. The bad news is you are not alone in dealing with disruptive players who are difficult to remove from the game.
I imagine this problem is not isolated to role playing groups but any group.
I have yet to find the magic bullet to solve this issue. I believe it lies somewhere among honesty, open communication and respect. I also believe that not every individual will be equally capable of implementing those qualities and it may come to simply removing yourself from the situation.
I have walked away from quite a few groups and I began to wonder if maybe the problem was me. The more I have read online the more I am leaning to the thinking that the problem is and is not me. That is to say that I am right and my opponent is equally right. Different people want different things. There is no need to belittle someone else’s desires in the pursuit of your own.
I apologize, I am rambling here.
As others have said, talk to the girl. You do not have to attack to express your feelings. If common ground can not be found for both of you, then uninvited her. If you fear uninviting her would split the group, walk yourself. Is it really worth all this frustration?
...I have yet to find the magic bullet to solve this issue. I believe it lies somewhere among honesty, open communication and respect...
I believe that it lies in the magic machine gun of doom. Next encounter, have a tarrasque stand up on hind legs and weild it. Then have it aim at the offending party. Listen to her scream.