While most people will propably feel the other way around, I can't help but feel that your 30% discount for subscribers is too much.
I work in an overseas retail store (Denmark), and my concern is that you are undercutting brick and mortar stores by offering such a huge discount.
In the end, if everyone shops directly - there will be no retail stores left! This is sad, not only for me (I shall surely find another job). But because of the impact is has on gaming in general. With no stores, products will only be seen on the internet. I think most manufacturers realize that this would be a bad thing.
This is not just alarmist whining. I have customers complaining or asking about the price, quoting your price policy! They expect to pay a little more in my store, but then they get to flip through the stuff before they buy... But there is a margin to how big the gap can be.
So I urge you, to reduce your discounts. Knowing full well that I will be pelted by the rest of the community - but so be it :-)
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Interesting arguement.
I've a lifetime 10% discount at my FLGS from spending over 1K there. (One of the employees by contrast has spent 17K since he started) I shop there for my minis, and Goodman Games products. I also point people there, and if I'm in the place help to push product. So for non-subscription items, it's a wash.
For subscribers Paizo's S/H makes up for the discount, and, more importantly, by subscribing Paizo is exchanging a lower profit for a more stable profit.
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So I urge you, to reduce your discounts. Knowing full well that I will be pelted by the rest of the community - but so be it :-)
I urge you at Paizo to not reduce your discounts one bit. 20 dollars is quite an expense (especially for a monthly publication) when you are barely making ends meet (like a lot of college guys and gals). I'm lucky enough to have finished college and make enough money now to subscribe without thinking twice, but only a few years ago that would have been a significant cost. Those 30% really help a lot of people, keep it just the way it is.
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30% off amounts to the same amount that shipping is (for anything except the lowest cost method in which case its a $2 discount, but you arn't garunteed to get it before the shops do (but you get the PDF)). Overseas shipping they actually pay more with shipping then the discount takes off, so its cheaper at your store i believe (but no free pdf)
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It is a wee bit cheaper to subscribe to Pathfinder via Paizo in Germany, than to buy it at your FLGS. But only if you subscribe to Pathfinder alone. For GameMastery and Pathfinder Chronicles there is no such discount. Since I let all of it ship together, I am running a bit higher in my costs than buying it here in Germany, but I wouldn't have the PDF's in that case. And I'd like to support my favourite company directly...
I'm sorry Tommy, but you're completely off your rocker if you think any Danish gaming store can compete with online prices.
From your profile it seems like you might be working at Fantask (a gaming store in Copenhagen, Denmark) and I just had a look at the prices for the Pathfinder adventures. Burnt Offerings (and the rest of the adventures in Rise of the Runelords) are priced at 160.00 Danish Kroner each, that's $30!!!
Then you add shipping to that if you don't live close by your store and it's easy to see that even if you buy the adventures without a subscription at the Paizo store ($19.99) + shipping ($6.86) you're still under the store price here in Denmark.
So, even without the discount for being a subscriber, it's still cheaper to order directly from the Paizo store than it is to go any of the Danish brick and mortar stores (heck, I just checked out some of the other Danish gaming stores and found Burnt Offerings priced at $38 in another store!).
30% off amounts to the same amount that shipping is (for anything except the lowest cost method in which case its a $2 discount, but you arn't garunteed to get it before the shops do (but you get the PDF)). Overseas shipping they actually pay more with shipping then the discount takes off, so its cheaper at your store i believe (but no free pdf)
My customers claimed that the shipping was included? If that is not the case, then it is another matter. Could anyone else confirm this? Do overseas customers pay shipping an handling in addition to the listed price?
(so a $20 Pathfinder book becomes $14 and then shipping is added?)
I'm sorry Tommy, but you're completely off your rocker if you think any Danish gaming store can compete with online prices.
From your profile it seems like you might be working at Fantask (a gaming store in Copenhagen, Denmark) and I just had a look at the prices for the Pathfinder adventures. Burnt Offerings (and the rest of the adventures in Rise of the Runelords) are priced at 160.00 Danish Kroner each, that's $30!!!
Then you add shipping to that if you don't live close by your store and it's easy to see that even if you buy the adventures without a subscription at the Paizo store ($19.99) + shipping ($6.86) you're still under the store price here in Denmark.
So, even without the discount for being a subscriber, it's still cheaper to order directly from the Paizo store than it is to go any of the Danish brick and mortar stores (heck, I just checked out some of the other Danish gaming stores and found Burnt Offerings priced at $38 in another store!).
You are completely correct Gentlegiant. I do indeed work at Fantask.
I am aware, that our prices will never be able to compete in this way. I am only concerned that the gap doesn't become too wide.But it seems that the customer was pulling my leg (possibly in attempt to get a discount) when he claimed a Pathfinder book would cost him $13 including shipping :-)
I make no excuses for my prices. They are as high as they need to be! Based on the discount we get, the danish VAT (20% for those who don't know) and the cost of shipping from the states.
But I am satisfied if indeed the price is a you say.
Yes, I can confirm that we pay postage in addition to the cost of the modules. It is pretty clear from the subscription pages.
Thanks - I did not go as far as to try subscriping. It is clear to me now that my customer was trying a fast one on me :-)
Thanks again!
Yes, I can confirm that we pay postage in addition to the cost of the modules. It is pretty clear from the subscription pages.Thanks - I did not go as far as to try subscriping. It is clear to me now that my customer was trying a fast one on me :-)
Thanks again!
Or maybe he hadn't realized that there actually was shipping to be added.
Nah, he was probably trying to pull a fast one on you. ;-)So, just to put all the numbers up:
Subscribing to Pathfinder is going to cost you $13.99 + $6.86 shipping for a total of $20.85 (plus a free pdf of the book).
Ordering the book from the paizo store is $19.99 + $6.86 shipping for a total of $26.85 (and no pdf of the book).
Yes, I can confirm that we pay postage in addition to the cost of the modules. It is pretty clear from the subscription pages.Thanks - I did not go as far as to try subscriping. It is clear to me now that my customer was trying a fast one on me :-)
Thanks again!Or maybe he hadn't realized that there actually was shipping to be added.
Nah, he was probably trying to pull a fast one on you. ;-)
So, just to put all the numbers up:
Subscribing to Pathfinder is going to cost you $13.99 + $6.86 shipping for a total of $20.85 (plus a free pdf of the book).
Ordering the book from the paizo store is $19.99 + $6.86 shipping for a total of $26.85 (and no pdf of the book).
Thanks a lot again.
I know that we will never match the price of online stores.
But people will still pay for service and advice and for the privilige of handling the item before purchase. There is just a limit to how much they will pay. But this seems okay to me.
So no further whining and complaining from me - happy holidays to all!
Chief Technical Officer
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Tommy,
Just so you know, our policies on priding our own products online are designed with retailers in mind—we specifically price our items, including subscriptions, so as not to undercut our retailers.
You might notice that most of the non-Paizo products we sell online bear a 10% discount off of retail, but we don't generally discount our own products at all (except for the occasional sale). The exception to this is for two of our subscriptions—Pathfinder and Planet Stories.
Pathfinder is an exception because it served as somewhat of a replacement for Dragon and Dungeon, which had always carried discounted subscriptions. And, as has been noted, once shipping is included, the total cost approaches suggested retail.
Planet Stories, on the other hand, is a line that's aimed more at mass-market bookstores than hobby retailers, and those retailers frequently post discounts and don't generally consider a discount from the publisher to be a problem.
So, just to put all the numbers up:
Subscribing to Pathfinder is going to cost you $13.99 + $6.86 shipping for a total of $20.85 (plus a free pdf of the book).
Ordering the book from the paizo store is $19.99 + $6.86 shipping for a total of $26.85 (and no pdf of the book).
Close, but not quite correct. It costs $13.99 + $5 shipping for a total of USD$18.99 (plus a free PDF of the book).
If you live in the US it would cost you $13.99 + $4 shipping for a total of USD$17.99 (plus a free PDF of the book).
You are correct in saying that for non-subscribers the cost of ordering the book directly from Paizo is $19.99 + $6.86 shipping for a total of $26.85 (and doesn't include a PDF of the book).
Olaf the Stout
So, just to put all the numbers up:
Subscribing to Pathfinder is going to cost you $13.99 + $6.86 shipping for a total of $20.85 (plus a free pdf of the book).
Ordering the book from the paizo store is $19.99 + $6.86 shipping for a total of $26.85 (and no pdf of the book).Close, but not quite correct. It costs $13.99 + $5 shipping for a total of USD$18.99 (plus a free PDF of the book).
If you live in the US it would cost you $13.99 + $4 shipping for a total of USD$17.99 (plus a free PDF of the book).
You are correct in saying that for non-subscribers the cost of ordering the book directly from Paizo is $19.99 + $6.86 shipping for a total of $26.85 (and doesn't include a PDF of the book).
Olaf the Stout
My shipping has been at $6.86 with most of my orders, but that might be because of the added GameMastery module. And I only included international shipping since Tommy was writing from an international point of view. :-)
Edit: Actually, going over my orders, shipping seems to be a little bit erratic. Going from $6.41 (1 GameMastery module in the letter) down to $4.87 (1 GameMastery module, RotRL #1 + Player Guide) and then up to $6.86 (Pathfinder + GameMastery module).
My shipping has been at $6.86 with most of my orders, but that might be because of the added GameMastery module. And I only included international shipping since Tommy was writing from an international point of view. :-)Edit: Actually, going over my orders, shipping seems to be a little bit erratic. Going from $6.41 (1 GameMastery module in the letter) down to $4.87 (1 GameMastery module, RotRL #1 + Player Guide) and then up to $6.86 (Pathfinder + GameMastery module).
Your shipping is indeed $6.86 because you also get GameMastery modules shipped at the same time. You can ship Pathfinder and GameMastery modules together for only slightly more than it would cost you to get just one sent individually.
I'm not quite sure why you got a GameMastery module, RotRL #1 and a Player's Guide for only $4.87 shipping. I imagine Paizo accidentally ripped themselves off there.
Olaf the Stout
Tommy,
Just so you know, our policies on priding our own products online are designed with retailers in mind—we specifically price our items, including subscriptions, so as not to undercut our retailers.
You might notice that most of the non-Paizo products we sell online bear a 10% discount off of retail, but we don't generally discount our own products at all (except for the occasional sale). The exception to this is for two of our subscriptions—Pathfinder and Planet Stories.
Pathfinder is an exception because it served as somewhat of a replacement for Dragon and Dungeon, which had always carried discounted subscriptions. And, as has been noted, once shipping is included, the total cost approaches suggested retail.
Planet Stories, on the other hand, is a line that's aimed more at mass-market bookstores than hobby retailers, and those retailers frequently post discounts and don't generally consider a discount from the publisher to be a problem.
I wrote here because you guys at Paizo actually respond to queries of this kind (unlike other companies), and I hoped that you had retailers in mind when you priced your items.
By the way, I am very happy with both your Pathfinder and Game Mastery products. I like them personally, and they do very well in my shop -maybe because I recommend them :-)
I thank you for your response.
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While I can understand the no discount due to game stores are hurting, when you don't have a game store in town & Paizo is the only way to get the item, then by all means give me a discount to counter the shipping costs.
Epically with myself getting the GM modules & the Chronc. subscrips as well, any kind of discount is helpful + I've come to realize that the best shipping for my stuff is by UPS (not in limboland like USPS shipments).
RM
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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By the way, I am very happy with both your Pathfinder and Game Mastery products. I like them personally, and they do very well in my shop -maybe because I recommend them :-)
Thank you for your support! It's always nice to hear from retailers who are having success with the product!
--Erik
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Speaking of which, I was at my FLGS yesterday, and I purchased a Gamemastery Flip mat and the Paizo Inn tiles thingy. While I was there I was speaking with my local FLGS owner, and we were talking about my recent Paizo purchases.
I really like supporting my local FLGS (so much so that I would always pay retail price until the mags started offering a subscriber only section), but I also really like the perk of subscribing (free PDF).
I suggested he come by and start a thread on the subject, figuring someone high up might see it and offer a response, but basically, we're wondering if there is any way we can combine the benefits of subscription and supporting the FLGS. Someway of setting up a 'pull' subscription through the local retailers.
I don't know if you've thought about this at all, but something that gets me in to the store with some frequency and gets him to the point where he's sure he can move the product could be a good thing.
Any chance this might work? Ought I start a new thread on the subject?
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Speaking of which, I was at my FLGS yesterday, and I purchased a Gamemastery Flip mat and the Paizo Inn tiles thingy. While I was there I was speaking with my local FLGS owner, and we were talking about my recent Paizo purchases.
I really like supporting my local FLGS (so much so that I would always pay retail price until the mags started offering a subscriber only section), but I also really like the perk of subscribing (free PDF).
I suggested he come by and start a thread on the subject, figuring someone high up might see it and offer a response, but basically, we're wondering if there is any way we can combine the benefits of subscription and supporting the FLGS. Someway of setting up a 'pull' subscription through the local retailers.
I don't know if you've thought about this at all, but something that gets me in to the store with some frequency and gets him to the point where he's sure he can move the product could be a good thing.
Any chance this might work? Ought I start a new thread on the subject?
Maybe Paizo could tag retail store copies with some sort of a code or give retailers a set of stickers with codes on them to correspond to the books that would offer access to the PDF for download. Consumer buys the book, types in the code the retailer hands him/her at Paizo.com and can download the PDF.
Just brainstormin'. nuttin' to see here.
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CEO
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Speaking of which, I was at my FLGS yesterday, and I purchased a Gamemastery Flip mat and the Paizo Inn tiles thingy. While I was there I was speaking with my local FLGS owner, and we were talking about my recent Paizo purchases.
I really like supporting my local FLGS (so much so that I would always pay retail price until the mags started offering a subscriber only section), but I also really like the perk of subscribing (free PDF).
I suggested he come by and start a thread on the subject, figuring someone high up might see it and offer a response, but basically, we're wondering if there is any way we can combine the benefits of subscription and supporting the FLGS. Someway of setting up a 'pull' subscription through the local retailers.
I don't know if you've thought about this at all, but something that gets me in to the store with some frequency and gets him to the point where he's sure he can move the product could be a good thing.
Any chance this might work? Ought I start a new thread on the subject?
We've thought about doing something like this, but the obstacles kept getting in the way. We thought about putting a code in the book that allows folks to get the PDF at paizo.com, but the cost of printing individual numbers in each book makes the proposition not affordable. Secondly, if the book weren't shrinkwrapped, anybody could grab the code out of the book and effectively steal the PDF. If somebody then bought the book, they would find that the PDF was not available. What a nightmare that would be for customer service. Also, if the books are shrinkwrapped, then folks at the store can't browse the book before they buy, which in our experience really adversely affects sales.
Basically, we just can't figure out a mechanism which is cost effective while also not being open to fraud. If we could figure something out that works, we would love to take a look at it.
-Lisa
http://www.amazon.com/Pathfinder-Rise-Runelords-Offerings-Ruinlords/dp/1601 250355/ref=pd_bbs_sr_8?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1198167170&sr=8-8
32% off. And if you're like me, free two day shipping via Amazon.com.
There's the real threat to retailers and probably why Paizo discounts these books.
While most people will propably feel the other way around, I can't help but feel that your 30% discount for subscribers is too much.
I work in an overseas retail store (Denmark), and my concern is that you are undercutting brick and mortar stores by offering such a huge discount.
In the end, if everyone shops directly - there will be no retail stores left! This is sad, not only for me (I shall surely find another job). But because of the impact is has on gaming in general. With no stores, products will only be seen on the internet. I think most manufacturers realize that this would be a bad thing.
This is not just alarmist whining. I have customers complaining or asking about the price, quoting your price policy! They expect to pay a little more in my store, but then they get to flip through the stuff before they buy... But there is a margin to how big the gap can be.
So I urge you, to reduce your discounts. Knowing full well that I will be pelted by the rest of the community - but so be it :-)
I really like supporting my local FLGS (so much so that I would always pay retail price until the mags started offering a subscriber only section), but I also really like the perk of subscribing (free PDF).
Simple solution seems to have the retailer subscribe with your e-mail address. You get the freebie from Paizo and he sells you the copies as they get to the store.