Interesting stuff about wizards channeling through staves, wands, books, and orbs. Check it out on the site.
Not a big fan of the tome being a spell accessory rather than an venue towards magical rites long forgotten.
Still, it's nice to see the wizard get magical items that make it more wizardly. There were very few interesting wizardly items in 3.5e, and, aside from the omnipresent headband of intellect, the best made them better at taking hits for the most part (better ac, better saves ect), which is strengthening a weakness, not playing to the strength.
It does seem like a headache to keep track of though.
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They had 1 ed magic users channeling through staves and wands in Dragon magazine ( !! ) and they could read from their spell books in a pinch (destroying said spell from the book).
That was certainly a rule that we used throughout 1st/2nd Edition; that a spell book could effectively be used as a collection of scrolls.
Though this may sound over-powered, remember that this was in the old edition, where a wizard could not even create any scroll until at least 8th level(?), and few players ever created other items at all, since the process was longer, more costly, and required one of your level 6 spells known (capped by Int, remember...!) to be Enchant Item...
Though the 3rd Edition rules seem to make item creation rather ubiquitous, I believe it is a knee-jerk pendulum swing in the opposite direction by frustrated players. No-one I knew in 20 years of playing 1st/2nd Edition ever made as much as a single scroll. So where did all the treasure in adventures come from?
It also had the effects of;
1) Increasing the spells/day of the wizards. Remember, school specialisation was an optional rule from 2nd Edition. There were no bonus spells for high Int, and scrolls could not be made by low-level characters.
2) making captured spell books useful when the spells were already known, or the wizard PC had reached his limit of known spells (capped by Int, remember...), or didn't want to waste his last (non-refundable) brain-slot on a spell of limited application.
3) Bypassing the restrictive scroll-creation rules to make 'found scrolls' simply pages ripped from spellbooks.
4) Allowing for spellbooks to be used up, preventing PCs walking around with a library.
5) Reducing the treasure gained by PCs if they took too long to finish an enemy, who (if desperate) could start cannibalising his book. A cornered wizard who knew his time was up could choose to lose his best spell, simply out of spite (assuming he didn't have a back-up in another hidden book). Thus forcing the PCs to press their attack, at reduced resources, rather than resort to the mind-numbing 'rest-stops' in enemy territory.
6) The proficiency or ruthlessness of a wizard could be gauged, by the number and thickness of his captured books, like 'kill-markings'.
If you had several thick tomes, it meant that you had bested powerful opponents quickly (or bested someone who had bested them...like a game of conkers, if your 3-er beats a 6-er, it counts as a 9-er...).
A collection of ragged pamphlets marked you as a bully, a coward or a scavenger, picking on weaker opponents, or looting the bodies of those who had run out of spells...
I certainly would not recommend this option in 3rd Edition, since the item creation rules, specialisation, and bonus spells for Int make it unnecessary.
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For those who don't feel like going to the WotC website....Here is the link. Of course, I'm not sure if it will work unless you are logged in to the D&D Insider....
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Interesting stuff about wizards channeling through staves, wands, books, and orbs. Check it out on the site.So 4E is phasing out Vancian magic for Rowlingian magic?
I'd like my wand with a phoenix feather so that I'm the most powerful boy wizard in the world, please.
Does this mean we also get to use nifty, faux-latin phrases? Dispellius Magicus! Firius Ballus? And do we have to get the "swish-and-flick" hand movements correct?
The use of wands, staffs, tomes and orbs sounds to me like they are phasing out the concept of spell focii and material components.
And that wands and staffs will no longer be charged items.
To be honest, I always thought that staffs sucked as magical items. Once they were out of charges all you had was a big stick and they were all very expensive to buy.
Wands on the other hand seemed very cheap for what they could do.
It has been my perception that material components were largely ignored anyway.
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It has been my perception that material components were largely ignored anyway.
You've never had a ranger and his wolf hound companion track an enemy wizard by the scent of his bat guano and rose petal material components?
i also mention seen material components of npc mages to players a harbinger of the spells to come ... giving them a foreboding of what spell is targeted thier way.
It has been my perception that material components were largely ignored anyway.
True enough, but unless they have the feat 'Eschew Materials' then they are in trouble when they lose a fight and wake up minus their possessions.
And I'm not saying that it is a bad thing (or even a valid assumption on my part) that they are eliminating material components in order to replace them with wands, staffs etc.
It has been my perception that material components were largely ignored anyway.
That's what a spell component pouch is for, after all. The only components that should be tracked are those with a monetary value. The spells with valuable components are relatively powerful and use the component cost to limit their uses (otherwise, spells like stoneskin become unbalancing).
With the switch to x/day, x/encounter, etc. model, this sounds like another way to limit powerful spells by requiring a special widget. "You can cast earthen resilience one per encounter, but you need a short iron rod with a diamond set on each end that costs 5,000gp." I suppose you could make it more general ("a 5,000gp diamond carved with the Earth Shield rune set in your wizard staff"), but it still comes down to limiting magic by requiring a costly item. Actually, such a system could be interesting, with gem encrusted staves becoming status symbols or even heirlooms (and the inevitable fakes to impress/swindle the credulous).
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Sweet!!! Check out the stats on the Bane Ash Short Staff I just scored:
Two-Hand Damage: 1 To (7-8) (4-4.5 Avg)
Required Level: 5
Durability: 20
Base Weapon Speed: [-10]
+50-60% Enhanced Damage (varies)
+50% Damage To Undead
20% Increased Attack Speed
+30 To Mana
Fire Resist +50%
Adds 4-6 Fire Damage
+5 To Fire Bolt (Sorceress Only)
+2 To Warmth (Sorceress Only)
(Only Spawns In Patch 1.09 or later)
Oh, wait, thats Diablo II...my bad.
Does this mean we also get to use nifty, faux-latin phrases? Dispellius Magicus! Firius Ballus? And do we have to get the "swish-and-flick" hand movements correct?
Argh! Don´t get me started on that crap! If you have to use Latin for wizards, make it at least believable, if not correct. But this ridiculous faux latin used in "Rowlingian" Magic (or any other) just makes me mad.
(This may just result from me playing a mage in LARPs, who casts his spells with Latin phrases - and I looked them up so that they make some sense. His background is from the Ars Magica RPG, so he should know his Latin.)
Stefan
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Uh, Bigby's b@&@#slap works well.
Aberzombie could tell you- I've got really long arms and big hands. Getting a person across the table is no problem, and I enjoy the tactile satisfaction of walloping someone for acting the fool.
On the other hand, Bigby's Pluck Behind The Ear Of Shutting Up And Paying Attention is awesome for the classroom when I'm otherwise engaged but need a student to get back on task.
This is another 4E element that will NOT see use in my 3.5 game.
Uh, Bigby's b@&&!slap works well.
I wonder of Bigby's Inappropriate Touching made it into 4E!
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Uh, Bigby's b@&&!slap works well.I wonder of Bigby's Inappropriate Touching made it into 4E!
Player1: "As the serving wench walks by I cast Mage Hand and...ah..."
DM: "Why?"Player1: "I see everyone else doing it but I'm afraid of rejection."
Player2: "OK, I grab her wrist when she twirls around and lead her up stairs."
Player1: "...but..."
True enough, but unless they have the feat 'Eschew Materials' then they are in trouble when they lose a fight and wake up minus their possessions.
What D&D character isn't?
Sounds kind of interesting and appeals to the historical "flavor" of wizards. Personally, I would have borrowed the sword and chalice from the Tarot also. i.e. The chalice is used for items that bolster the target (like drinking from the Grail) or that "contain" something; the Sword is used in directing spiritual and mental effects.
I like the idea someone else mentioned above of the wizard's staff acting as their spell focus and upgrading it with all the foci needed for varioius spells.
I'm not certain that I like the idea of the tome having only a specific use though. Since the goal seems to be to allow characters to always be useful, what I had already done in my own campaign (which uses recharge magic) is to allow wizards to cast any spell in their book by doing a quick study (i.e. 1 minute per spell level) after which the spell must be cast withing 1 round per point of Int bonus. Clerics could do much the same by praying.
With this ad hoc spell-casting in place, You could still have Your combat spells prepared but upon reaching a door that the rogue could not unlock, the game wouldn't necessarily grind to a halt. Made for some interesting moments like when the Fellowship of the Ring took a few minutes of downtime outside Moria while their wizard did his thing.
A high-powered alternative to be sure, but it has worked well for my group.
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Uh, Bigby's b@&@#slap works well.Aberzombie could tell you- I've got really long arms and big hands. Getting a person across the table is no problem, and I enjoy the tactile satisfaction of walloping someone for acting the fool.
On the other hand, Bigby's Pluck Behind The Ear Of Shutting Up And Paying Attention is awesome for the classroom when I'm otherwise engaged but need a student to get back on task.
That's true Heathy. He's about the size of a friggin half-ogre. I saw him smack this little punk once, and later on we heard that the kid's grandmother's head popped back at the exact same moment, but like 10 miles away. Creepy!
And IconoclasticScream - as for the classroom - have you hit them with the Voice of Godly Denial yet?
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I'm not sure about the specifics (especially tomes), but I like the idea of wizards using wands and staffs.
what I had already done in my own campaign (which uses recharge magic) is to allow wizards to cast any spell in their book by doing a quick study (i.e. 1 minute per spell level) after which the spell must be cast withing 1 round per point of Int bonus... A high-powered alternative to be sure, but it has worked well for my group.
Great idea. I too like the idea of wizards being able to drag out their spellbooks so they can find the right spell for the right situation. I was going to say you could tone it down by making it take longer, but 1 min/spell level IS a long time if you're in combat rounds; it's seems more comparable to taking 20 (or 30 or 40) for a skill check, at least in time commitment. But I really like the idea of 'quickly memorizing' rather than 'casting from' because that way you don't have to worry about the spells disappearing from the spellbook like a scroll.
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...what I had already done in my own campaign (which uses recharge magic) is to allow wizards to cast any spell in their book by doing a quick study (i.e. 1 minute per spell level)...With this ad hoc spell-casting in place, You could still have Your combat spells prepared but upon reaching a door that the rogue could not unlock, the game wouldn't necessarily grind to a halt. Made for some interesting moments like when the Fellowship of the Ring took a few minutes of downtime outside Moria while their wizard did his thing.
This is already covered in the existing rules (PHB 178). Though you have to leave a slot free, to be prepared later. Most players either don't know this, or can't resist the temptation to fill every slot. It is very good for those utility spells like knock or stone to flesh, that you may not memorise automatically, but when you do need them, you really need them...
I don't currently use the 'study time' option, since becoming a mage of the Arcane Order (Complete Arcane). Now, I leave a slot or two free, then I can pick any spell of that level I want from the College Spellpool under Sasserine (whether I know it or not), and count it against my next day's spells. Ho Ho!
Or you can scribe scrolls of all the boring defensive or utility spells, so you always have them to hand. But that's far too simple for most players too. Most wizards I see are like a 'glass cannon'; full to the brim with offensive spells, but go down like a house of cards when anyone dares to retaliate.
Allowing PCs to study for extra spells, over and above their normal allowance (assuming that is what you implied) seems broken, as it takes much of the challenge out of the game. All situations become a matter of 'when' the PCs beat it, rather than 'if', making them merely 'speed-bumps'. Unless you keep up a time-pressure, is there any reason to make intelligent or reasoned spell-choices at the beginning of the day...?
This is already covered in the existing rules (PHB 178). Though you have to leave a slot free, to be prepared later. Most players either don't know this, or can't resist the temptation to fill every slot. It is very good for those utility spells like knock or stone to flesh, that you may not memorise automatically, but when you do need them, you really need them...
I'm looking at pg 178 of the 3.5 PHB — specifically "Spell Preparation Time" and "Spell Selection and Preparation". This isn't quite the same as what I'm doing. For one it takes a great deal longer since the caster is actually memorizing the spell. This option is still available to my players if they wish to change their template of prepared spells mid-day.
Remember: I stated that I'm using recharge magic. As a result, unless it's a very long battle, *most* spells are useable only once or twice per encounter. In otherwords, in exchange for not being able to unleash their highest level spells round after round like in the traditional Vancian system, the caster retains the ability to replenish and cast spells all day long. It's an interesting change in how You approach the game, but it's not necessarily for everyone — I myself was about to start researching a happy medium between Recharge and Vancian before 4th Ed was released (then I just said "screw it").
Allowing PCs to study for extra spells, over and above their normal allowance (assuming that is what you implied) seems broken, as it takes much of the challenge out of the game. All situations become a matter of 'when' the PCs beat it, rather than 'if', making them merely 'speed-bumps'. Unless you keep up a time-pressure, is there any reason to make intelligent or reasoned spell-choices at the beginning of the day...?
I haven't changed the limit on how many spells a caster can have in their template of prepared spells. Also, in the Recharge system, many of the buffing or enchantment spells have specific recharge times that are above and beyond the 1-7 round general recharge time. Thus, a caster is unlikely to buff the entire party with Bull's Strength and can't cast Charm Person multiple times in the same encounter. This effectively limits the frequency with which a caster can use spells.
In addition, there frequently are time-pressured situations. A poignant example is after the party finished off several waves of "vanguard" attackers in The Red Hand of Doom (reference the Massacre at Drellin's Ferry). The encounter didn't occur as the same location as laid out in the adventure but as a huge army was approaching a small town. The party were trying to buy time for some clerics to hitch up a wagon to escort children and the elderly from a doomed town.
They were badly beaten up after defeating 3 waves of fliers ranging ahead of the main host. However, then a red dragon descend from the cloud cover and another wave of enemies took flight to join it. The party only had so much time to get ready for the dramatic onslaught. Did they dare take the time to pray and study for 1-shot castings of some buffs they hadn't yet prepared? (They were en route to counter an undead threat when they flew over this town and decided to help so their selection of spells wasn't optimal.) Or did they use what time they had to try and cast some healing spells in the most efficient manner possible?
While that's among the most severe time-pressured situations they've faced, I very rarely give the players unlimited time in which to take 20 on every situation by whipping up the perfect spell. Strongholds have patrols. An unseen enemy that escapes notice goes for reinforcements. The enemy does not wait until the PCs are good and ready — they cast using the same magic system so based off of intelligence reports they use that to their advantage whenever possible.
For those who don't feel like going to the WotC website....Here is the link. Of course, I'm not sure if it will work unless you are logged in to the D&D Insider....
It doesn't.
To be honest, I always thought that staffs sucked as magical items. Once they were out of charges all you had was a big stick and they were all very expensive to buy.
Wands on the other hand seemed very cheap for what they could do.
Io each their own, but wands are capped at 4th level. Personally I was a big fan of staffs as a high level cleric. Particularly a Staff of Life, and a Staff of Healing. But, I was playing a Negative Energy Channeler... So, YMMV.
True enough, but unless they have the feat 'Eschew Materials' then they are in trouble when they lose a fight and wake up minus their possessions.What D&D character isn't?
The Monk.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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And don't forget the Psion.
My first reaction was "Um, WotC? The White Council would like their schtick back."
While I do like the idea of dedicated caster items, I don't like 'Staffs are us'
In Harry's case, the rod and staff seem to give him, for lack of a better term, shape spell. He can still go all evocation, just more likely to toast friend and foe.
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And IconoclasticScream - as for the classroom - have you hit them with the Voice of Godly Denial yet?
I use a variant of the Voice of Godly Denial. It's the Voice of Godly Approval Tease. Rather than the powerful bass "No" that you were so accustomed to hearing, when the students ask for something ridiculous (Case in point- Today a student asked if I would leave a class I was co-teaching to go retrieve her folder from the gym.) I lift my head just slightly, as if I'm about to nod in affirmation, open my mouth wide, the word "Yes" just inside my lips, then suddenly look down at the student faux bemusement and deliver a pleasing, curt, matter-of-fact "No" accompanied by a loving Joker-like smile.
The high school gaming group, on the other hand, not only know the Voice of Godly Denial, but also the Innocently Malevolent Chuckle of Doom, the Slow Knowing Shaking of the Head, and No Ex Post Facto. The classics never die.
From the EN World front page:
Update - conspiracy theorists ahoy! All references to the "tome" have been edited out of the above article, leaving orb, staff and wand only. Why? I don't know! But there were references to the "tome" before, and now there aren't. Instead, we have extra flavour text, referring to Iron Sigil [potent defenses when invoking spells of thunder or force] and Serpent Eye [enchantment, beguiling, and ensnaring] traditions (orb), disciplines of the Hidden Flame [fierce powers of fire and radiance] and the Golden Wyvern [battle-mages] (staff), and Emerald Frost adepts [powers of cold and deadly acidic magic] and Stormwalker theurges [spells of lightning and force] (wand).
The wand is a perennial favorite for wizards who favor accurate, damaging attacks. Emerald Frost adepts use wands to help channel powers of cold and deadly acidic magic, while Stormwalker theurges channel spells of lightning and force through their wands.
I guess, in 4th Edition wands aren't what wands once were.
As soon as I said that to someone, it got stuck in my head, so I type it here now to free myself of its tongue twisting terror.
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Iron Sigil [potent defenses when invoking spells of thunder or force] and Serpent Eye [enchantment, beguiling, and ensnaring] traditions (orb), disciplines of the Hidden Flame [fierce powers of fire and radiance] and the Golden Wyvern [battle-mages] (staff), and Emerald Frost adepts [powers of cold and deadly acidic magic] and Stormwalker theurges [spells of lightning and force] (wand).
OOH Bring it on ! Sounds a tad like ... Magic the Gathering the roleplaying game.
I can hear 8 year olds with access to thier parents disposable income around the world rejoice.
OOH Bring it on ! Sounds a tad like ... Magic the Gathering the roleplaying game.
I can hear 8 year olds with access to thier parents disposable income around the world rejoice.
How can you possibly suggest that WotC would try and combine D&D with Magic the Moneygrabbing in order to make a collectible RPG?
Next you'll be suggesting they make collectible miniatures out of cheap plastic rather than allow you to go into a shop and pick the one figure that perfectly represents your character.
Oh wait! They did that already.
The Monk.
You got me there.
Sorcerer too.
Aren't they limited to material components as well? And you can just forget about your Bracers of Defense and Ring of Protection.
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Next you'll be suggesting they make collectible miniatures out of cheap plastic rather than allow you to go into a shop and pick the one figure that perfectly represents your character.
Oh wait! They did that already.
Yeah I was realy angry when they got that law passed forbidding hobbies stores to sell individual miniatures anymore.
This whole thread is blowing me away. I'm glad people have pointed out to me how WotC is ripping off Harry Potter too. Otherwise I might have mistakenly thought that wizards using wands, staves, tomes and magic orbs was a classic trope of fantasy literature.
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And IconoclasticScream - as for the classroom - have you hit them with the Voice of Godly Denial yet?I use a variant of the Voice of Godly Denial. It's the Voice of Godly Approval Tease. Rather than the powerful bass "No" that you were so accustomed to hearing, when the students ask for something ridiculous (Case in point- Today a student asked if I would leave a class I was co-teaching to go retrieve her folder from the gym.) I lift my head just slightly, as if I'm about to nod in affirmation, open my mouth wide, the word "Yes" just inside my lips, then suddenly look down at the student faux bemusement and deliver a pleasing, curt, matter-of-fact "No" accompanied by a loving Joker-like smile.
The high school gaming group, on the other hand, not only know the Voice of Godly Denial, but also the Innocently Malevolent Chuckle of Doom, the Slow Knowing Shaking of the Head, and No Ex Post Facto. The classics never die.
Sweet! I can here the Barbara Streisand song "Memories" in my head.
Memories, light the corners of my mind....
I'm glad people have pointed out to me how WotC is ripping off Harry Potter too.
That's what we are here for.
What about the wizard's hat, as Terry Pratchet can tell you, no wizard is worth his salt without a pointy wizard hat.
What about the wizard's hat, as Terry Pratchet can tell you, no wizard is worth his salt without a pointy wizard hat.
Yep. Pointy hats are required.
And no women wizards... That's just wrong!
Would the Sender of Eight be a demon or a devil?
That's it! oh yeah we got to pay for previews in Jan 08 with the 4e preview books.
If they're replacing material components with tomes, wands and the like then that's going to render most of the novels anachronistic (as many of them pay lots of attension to spell components).
as many of them pay lots of attension to spell components.
But nobody else does...since they tell to not care by buying a spell component pouch.
If they simplified the list, since now each spell requires a different material component, that we have no idea where we could find it or how much it costs.
I can understand where I could find bat guano, but is their actually a place that sells it and if I bring my pouch it's free?
Material components are a mess right now, admit it!