This product clearly and obviously supports a drug lifestyle. I do not do business with any company that sells products that support a drug lifestyle. Until this product is removed, I sadly shall not continue to do business with Paizo.com
If you feel the same, please sign below. Let Paizo know you don't support drugs.
If you have some debate about this, please read my responses on this thread to a similar product.
Thank you for your support.
Wow . . . just looking at the "standard" Fluxx, its kind of strange trying to figure out exactly who they are trying to appeal to.
This product clearly and obviously supports a drug lifestyle. I do not do business with any company that sells products that support a drug lifestyle. Until this product is removed, I sadly shall not continue to do business with Paizo.com
If you feel the same, please sign below. Let Paizo know you don't support drugs.
If you have some debate about this, please read my responses on this thread to a similar product.
Thank you for your support.
Again Firebeetle I'm with you in your original reaction, but you are missing the point. This product deals with legalization. It doesn't say "Hey smoke pot, we don't care it's illegal"...it says "Marijuana is a 'drug' that has less detrimental effect on the user than alcohol does, and oh yeah, thousands of people are thrown in jail for years for using or selling this relatively harmless (compared to alcohol) substance."
This is a separate issue from supporting drug culture. This is an examination of the politics and legality of marijuana.
For the record, I have never used any illegal narcotic in my life (including marijuana) and I am still very much in favor of seeing it legalized. Many of the people I know whose lives have been ruined by pot, I can honestly say, WOULD NOT have had their lives fall apart on them if marijuana was treated the same way as alcohol by this country. Certainly, one of my friends, who is a brilliant artist and musician would not be in jail right now.
Whether or not pot should be legalized is topic in which reasonable people can disagree, and I respect you if you believe it should not be legalized. Again though, boycotting Paizo for carrying a product that promotes this very important high-minded debate (in a humorous fashion) may not be the answer to this country's problems with drug culture.
Oddly enough, they also appear to offer Christian Fluxx and Jewish Fluxx. The Plush bend-y flower this company makes is "really" similar to the one my son loves to kvetch at (cute watching him do it). I wonder if they make it?
I'm almost more opposed to the other decks promoting organized religion than I am the pot one (considing religion has killed quite a few more people than drugs).
Again Firebeetle I'm with you in your original reaction, but you are missing the point. This product deals with legalization. It doesn't say "Hey smoke pot, we don't care it's illegal"...it says "Marijuana is a 'drug' that has less detrimental effect on the user than alcohol does, and oh yeah, thousands of people are thrown in jail for years for using or selling this relatively harmless (compared to alcohol) substance."
This is a separate issue from supporting drug culture. This is an examination of the politics and legality of marijuana.
For those who don't know, this product promises that a $1 from sales will be spent on legalizing marijuana. On their site they show they have spent THOUSANDS on this issue.
If you believe that this product is simply aimed at legalization, and that those buying the Baked Baked plush are simply making fun of drug users, you are being incredibly naive. It is upon this naivete users feed. The thing they dread most is someone telling them no.
This is a consumer issue. We as a community have the right to say "we do not want drugs to be part of our gaming community" I don't think that is so far fetched, do you?
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This is a consumer issue. We as a community have the right to say "we do not want drugs to be part of our gaming community" I don't think that is so far fetched, do you?
Agreed. We do have that right. I would rather say that we as a community reject censorship and strong arm tactics (boycotts, etc...)
Firebeetle, if you had wanted a rational conversation on the pros or cons of selling this item on the Paizo site, I would be right there with you. However, your opening gambit was boycott (BURN THE HEATHENS!)followed by shock and awe (see example of mother & gun in other thread), and then attacks on people's ability to reason (calling Nick & others naive).
People actually can disagree with you for rational reasons. That doesn't make them dope fiends, and it does not make them evil. Judging by the science on this issue, it may make them well informed. Or perhaps they see (moral) censorship as an even more insidious evil.
Is there a "censorship gateway"? First we threaten to boycott Paizo if they don't pull these products. Say they pull them. We now know the power we have, to force them to conform to our moral standards. So then we can threaten to boycott them if they don't stop showing those scandalous illustrations on the magazine covers--because using sex to sell obviously leads to rape. Say Paizo agrees, and makes everyone modestly clad, and Tyralandi even gets a burqua. But then we'd probably decide that Pathfinder isn't Christian-themed enough, so we threaten to boycott over that. Out of panic, they make every adventure C.S. Lewis-like, and they introduce the "Smiting of the Infidels Adventure Path" in Pathfinder. But then we don't like their "brand" of Christianity, and we boycott them anyway... Bah!
If they sell drugs, by all means boycott them, or, better yet, turn them in to the cops. But if they sell a product made by people who disagree over the legalization issue, and you threaten to boycott over that, then where does it end?
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Damn. I'd hate to play at your house. With the no purchases from companies supporting drug use, there must be a dearth of snack foods in your pantry.
I sure hope you don't like professional sports. Last I checked, they support drugs pretty heavily. McDonalds and Starbucks are pretty big pushers too. And, most stores I've been to sell alcohol and tabacco too.
Oh wait, those are legal. That arbitrary distinction completely changes the analysis. Never mind. I forgot that because alcohol is legal, it doesn't have any harmful effects. Never mind.
Oh wait, those are legal. That arbitrary distinction completely changes the analysis. Never mind. I forgot that because alcohol is legal, it doesn't have any harmful effects. Never mind.
You might have missed this on the related thread:
2. Alcohol and tobacco are legal drugs with terrible consequences, so marijuana is good- This is a fallacy. AIDS is bad, so herpes is good. Bears are bad, so lions are good. The reason the consequences for drugs and alcohol are so prevalent is because these drugs are legal and therefore usage is widespread. I find it ironic that some call for marijuana legalization on the basis of alcohol and tobacco legality, which would only increase usage of yet another problem drug. We really should be addressing the problems with alcohol and tobacco.
See, the standpoint is consistent. Firebeetle is outspokenly anti-marijuana, anti-alcohol, and anti-tobacco. And as much as I think his efforts are misguided in this case, he's not a hypocrite about it, as near as I can tell.
What bothers me is the implicit assertion that anyone who disagrees about legalization is either stupid, naive, or evil (or possibly all of the above).
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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See, the standpoint is consistent. Firebeetle is outspokenly anti-marijuana, anti-alcohol, and anti-tobacco. And as much as I think his efforts are misguided in this case, he's not a hypocrite about it, as near as I can tell.
Well, I guess as long as he is boycotting stores that sell alcohol and nicotine, I guess I agree, he's not a hypocrite. But if he's boycotting paizo for selling a product advocating drug use, he should also be boycotting professional sports, most stores, and many eating establishments, or he's a hypocrite.
But if he's boycotting paizo for selling a product advocating drug use, he should also be boycotting professional sports, most stores, and many eating establishments, he's a hypocrite.
Point taken.
This product clearly and obviously supports a drug lifestyle. I do not do business with any company that sells products that support a drug lifestyle. Until this product is removed, I sadly shall not continue to do business with Paizo.com
Thank you for your support.
I see your point. but se also the baked vodoo doll thread for my point of vieuw.
He and be carefull with what you eat, what you wear and what you give for gifts as well.
Slavery
Polution
animal harassment are a 100000x worse.
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Damn. I'd hate to play at your house. With the no purchases from companies supporting drug use, there must be a dearth of snack foods in your pantry.
I sure hope you don't like professional sports. Last I checked, they support drugs pretty heavily. McDonalds and Starbucks are pretty big pushers too. And, most stores I've been to sell alcohol and tabacco too.
Oh wait, those are legal. That arbitrary distinction completely changes the analysis. Never mind. I forgot that because alcohol is legal, it doesn't have any harmful effects. Never mind.
Awesome, as usual.
This is a consumer issue. We as a community have the right to say "we do not want drugs to be part of our gaming community" I don't think that is so far fetched, do you?
I don't want drugs to be a part of my gaming community. Do I don't care if drugs are talked about in my games, and I have no problem playing a drug using character. These are separate issues. I don't want to smoke pot at the table Firebeetle, but nor do I want to banish any informed discussion or commentation on issues such as drug problems and legalization from my games either. Censorship sucks in all things.
For those who don't know, this product promises that a $1 from sales will be spent on legalizing marijuana. On their site they show they have spent THOUSANDS on this issue.If you believe that this product is simply aimed at legalization, and that those buying the Baked Baked plush are simply making fun of drug users, you are being incredibly naive...
But...I don't understand...the fact they are dontating a dollar from sales PROVES that the issue is legalization Firebeetle. They are literally putting their money where their mouth is. They aren't using that dollar to buy pot, they are putting it towards the issue they feel strongly about.
Are you against legalization? If so, that's a great reason to not buy this product. No need to slap-dash some sort of crazy notion that the product supports illegal drug use (which is obviously doesn't).
Oh, and I agree with several other posters here. Of all the issues in the world we could get in arms about, I don't think products that hint at smoking the doobie is really that important.
You want to talk drug problems here we go:
How about we spend three times as much money on punishing drug addicts and jailing them, then we do treating their addiction medically. Maybe we should be helping these people get off drugs instead of locking them up. It would cost a LOT less than jailing them, and they might become citizens that can contribute positively to our society instead of convicts locked in jail for having a sickness.
That's the problem, not a plushie doll, or a card game.
There's my two cents.
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Hey, any law enforcement professionals, or attorneys:
Would ownership of this item constitute drug paraphernalia? In the US Army it would, but that's a UCMJ matter, separate from civil law. If it's drug paraphernalia, does it warrant reasonable search? (And, yes, in he US Army, I could search a Soldier's barracks room if I saw this item because of it's product description.) Just curious.
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Oh, and I agree with several other posters here. Of all the issues in the world we could get in arms about, I don't think products that hint at smoking the doobie is really that important.
You want to talk drug problems here we go:
How about we spend three times as much money on punishing drug addicts and jailing them, then we do treating their addiction medically. Maybe we should be helping these people get off drugs instead of locking them up. It would cost a LOT less than jailing them, and they might become citizens that can contribute positively to our society instead of convicts locked in jail for having a sickness.
That's the problem, not a plushie doll, or a card game.
There's my two cents.
Minor drug offenders fill your prisons
You don't even flinchAll our taxes paying for your wars
Against the new non-rich,
I buy my crack, my smack, my b#++@,
Right here in Hollywood,
The percentage of Americans in the prison system
Prison system, has doubled since 1985,
They're trying to build a prison,
They're trying to build a prison,
They're trying to build a prison, (for you and me to live in)
Another prison system,
Another prison system,
Another prison system. (for you and me to live in)
For you and I, for you and I , for you and I.
They're trying to build a prison,
They're trying to build a prison,
They're trying to build a prison,
For you and me,
Oh baby, you and me.
All research and successful drug policy show
That treatment should be increased,
And law enforcement decreased,
While abolishing mandatory minimum sentences,
All research and successful drug policy show
That treatment should be increased,
And law enforcement decreased,
While abolishing mandatory minimum sentences.
Utilizing drugs to pay for secret wars around the world,
Drugs are now your global policy,
Now you police the globe,
I buy my crack, my smack, my b#+*+,
Right here in Hollywood,
Drug money is used to rig elections,
And train brutal corporate sponsored
Dictators around the world.
They're trying to build a prison,
They're trying to build a prison,
They're trying to build a prison, (for you and me to live in)
Ah, the wisdom of System of a Down!
Get wise, Legalize!!!!
FH
This product clearly and obviously supports a drug lifestyle. I do not do business with any company that sells products that support a drug lifestyle. Until this product is removed, I sadly shall not continue to do business with Paizo.com
If you feel the same, please sign below. Let Paizo know you don't support drugs.
If you have some debate about this, please read my responses on this thread to a similar product.
Thank you for your support.
If Paizo pulls this item or the plushie I will not buy anymore products from them.I do not support censorship.And though i do not smoke pot( i have never enjoyed it) i fully support the legalization of it.
Go Fakey with the SoaD quotage.
To quote Lisa from the original thread:
We try to offer a wide range of products that appeal to all tastes. Some of it is adult content and it goes all the way to Christian card and board games. To each his own. I don't want to make paizo.com a place where I personally make decisions about what is right and wrong, and what people should buy or not. So my suggestion is to buy the stuff that you want and don't buy the other stuff. If enough folks don't buy items, they eventually die off.
If Paizo pulls this item or the plushie I will not buy any more products from them. I do not support censorship. And though I do not smoke pot (I have never enjoyed it) I fully support the legalization of it.
Well said. You're a man I'll be proud to have at my gaming table.
Hey, any law enforcement professionals, or attorneys:
Would ownership of this item constitute drug paraphernalia? In the US Army it would, but that's a UCMJ matter, separate from civil law. If it's drug paraphernalia, does it warrant reasonable search? (And, yes, in he US Army, I could search a Soldier's barracks room if I saw this item because of it's product description.) Just curious.
I'm an attorney (and former law enforcement officer), so I'll field this one. No, it would *not* constitute drug paraphernalia, and I think any attempt to treat it as such would be an unacceptable infringement upon the person's First Amendment rights to free speech.
Now, the UCMJ may be different and in my experience the UCMJ tends to be fairly draconian.For the record, I disapprove of attempts to promote censorship. The free exchange of ideas is part of the very foundation of democracy and freedom. So, I support Paizo and I have to express my disapproval of the poster who urged boycotting them.
Beetle, you ever think that if you have so much spare time to devote to cheerleading the drug war that you could be using it more effectively? Like writing love notes to Alberto Gonzalez? I'm sure he could use one right now.
Since everyone else seems to feel the need to place disclaimers:
************************Disclaimer**********************************
I have smoked pot. I smoked a good deal of it. It was a lot of fun. I have a good paying engineering job and a lovely woman. My friends are well adjusted fun people to be around and some of them smoke pot. The only hard drug I have ever used is alcohol and nicotine (8 years free from cigs). The side effects included laughing with my friends, watching MST3K too much and eating too many snacks. My life is good.
*******Offer Void In Utah, Wisconsin and the Virgin Islands*********
And what does my anecdote prove? NOTHING, it is one data point and the only way to get at the truth is through collecting as many data points as possible. That is why censorious BS intended to squash dissent with the current drug war is more than the usual political annoyance. As long as it is not possible to speak openly about any subject we can never arrive at the truth.
And to Paizos: My apologies for adding to the pointless off-topic spam fest but it gets me ire up.
This product clearly and obviously supports a drug lifestyle. I do not do business with any company that sells products that support a drug lifestyle. Until this product is removed, I sadly shall not continue to do business with Paizo.com
If you feel the same, please sign below. Let Paizo know you don't support drugs.
If you have some debate about this, please read my responses on this thread to a similar product.
Thank you for your support.
Again Firebeetle I'm with you in your original reaction, but you are missing the point. This product deals with legalization. It doesn't say "Hey smoke pot, we don't care it's illegal"...it says "Marijuana is a 'drug' that has less detrimental effect on the user than alcohol does, and oh yeah, thousands of people are thrown in jail for years for using or selling this relatively harmless (compared to alcohol) substance."
This is a separate issue from supporting drug culture. This is an examination of the politics and legality of marijuana.
For the record, I have never used any illegal narcotic in my life (including marijuana) and I am still very much in favor of seeing it legalized. Many of the people I know whose lives have been ruined by pot, I can honestly say, WOULD NOT have had their lives fall apart on them if marijuana was treated the same way as alcohol by this country. Certainly, one of my friends, who is a brilliant artist and musician would not be in jail right now.
Whether or not pot should be legalized is topic in which reasonable people can disagree, and I respect you if you believe it should not be legalized. Again though, boycotting Paizo for carrying a product that promotes this very important high-minded debate (in a humorous fashion) may not be the answer to this country's problems with drug culture.
This product SAYS it is about legalization, but has cards that instruct people to toke, for everyone to toke, and to smoke if you are holding. These cards do not deal with legalization, they are DIRECT INSTRUCTIONS TO USE AN ILLEGAL SUBSTANCE. Until I brought attention to this game, Looney Lab's advice to finding children playing this game was to play it with them. Like any addicts, these people are clearly delusional about the impact of their drug of choice.
As for being "less dangerous than alcohol", if it ever was that, it certainly isn't now. The modern strain of cannabis is highly potent and marijuana cannot be considered a "light" drug. Those who compare it with caffeine are laughable.
Just checking to see if Paizo was still selling this crap. I just they don't care about their customers or children, that's too bad.
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Oh, I tire of this stuff.
"George Bush says 'we are losing the war on drugs'. Well you know what that implies? There's a war going on, and people on drugs are winning it! Well what does that tell you about drugs?"
- Bill Hicks RIP
Firebeetle may be consistent, but he is consistently illogical.
I don't need protecting from drugs, I need protecting from the evils brought about by prohibition.
Alcohol and cigarettes are taxed and that pays for their treatment (It does in first world nations with public health systems. Also called civilisation).
A whole slew of other drugs are not taxed and so criminal enterprises are produced which enrich the violent whilst leaving the regular citizenry to pick up the pieces.
It's drug-dealers turf wars and shoplifting versus marijuana cookies in starbucks and an improved public health service.
I used to smoke weed but I stopped when I realised that my bit of harmless fun was funding serious, dangerous criminals.
Drugs should be the choices of adults, not the controlling influence of the hysterical mob (for notes upon the dangerous hysteria of the mob see... history, the bible and other sources).
Legalisation = legislation = reduced harm.
Prohibition = criminalisation = gang violence
I do not do business with any company that sells products that support a drug lifestyle. Until this product is removed, I sadly shall not continue to do business with Paizo.com
If you don’t approve of this product, by all means DON’T BUY IT! But don’t boycott paizo to stop them selling it, buy the products you do approve of, and recommend them to your friends.
Paizo, like all companies, is in business to make money and they’ll give us more of whatever’s selling best.
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This product clearly and obviously supports a drug lifestyle. I do not do business with any company that sells products that support a drug lifestyle. Until this product is removed, I sadly shall not continue to do business with Paizo.com
If you feel the same, please sign below. Let Paizo know you don't support drugs.
If you have some debate about this, please read my responses on this thread to a similar product.
Thank you for your support.
I do support the stoner lifestyle and...um…what was I saying. Oh yea I remember, way to go Paizo for supporting companies that make fun of people like me who smoke the recreational spliff and ignoring the super uptight posters who should smoke the recreational spliff.