OK, my PCs will face Olangru at your next game session, next Friday. They made it through Dark Mountain Pass already, and have made their way along the old Olman highway for 3 days now. Their progress has been slow since one of the suviving colonists is with child. Aside from my 5 PCs, other survivors include Avner, Urol, Amella, Tavey, Lirith, and 2 colonists.
Anyway, I'm trying to build an atmosphere of dread as Olangru stalks them. I've mined a few ideas off the board already, but I'd like some more feedback. Here's what I've done so far:
- While they camped for the night in Dark Mountain Pass, Olangru crept in and teleported Thunderstrike away right from under their noses. He also stole all of their food.
- I used Olangru's Olman illusion trick right after the PCs left the Pass.
- The night after they left the Pass, Olangru used the darkness pebble trick to distract the group while he slipped Thunderstrike's severed head in Avner's bedroll.
- The next day, the group found a macabre display of dead sea gulls, all positioned in mockery of the group's sleeping arrangements the night before. Each of the birds' heads had been pulled off.
- The next night, Olangru telekinetically swiped one of the PC's backpacks right before their very eyes. The bar-lgura was positioned out of sight and high up on the cliff wall so as not to be seen. To the PC, it looked as if his pack just suddenly lifted up and vanished into the night sky.
- The next morning, as the PCs made their way along the highway, they found a message scrawled in horse blood on the cliff wall: "The winged ones come for you today. Do not die yet, meat." Olangru wanted to warn them of the impending gargoyle attack. This REALLy freaked them out.
And that's what's happened so far. Here are a few things I was thinking of adding:
- After the gargoyle attack, I'm going to have an NPC (Lirith most likely) abducted from the group. They will hear her pitiful cries that night as Olangru tortures her (see The Blair Witch Project for inspiration).
- Later, as the PCs enter the Fogmire, they'll find the stolen backpack hanging from a tree. Inside will be a small blood-soaked pouch tied with Lirith's hair ribbon. Inside are her vital organs.
OK, what do you think so far? Is it overkill? Any suggestions?
Nice. I like the backpack idea!
I had the big O use invis to lurk nearby the lift. At the top of the lift he had placed a severed head which floated about (telekinesis) and tried to gnaw through the lift ropes as it was carrying some of Tavey and some other NPC's. When that did not work he pulled Taveys dagger (again w/ telekinesis)and continued cutting the ropes until the mage tried to grapple the dagger. There was a fun flying mage / dagger chase that went on for a bit.
Also when O and his mates arrive to snatch Urol, try having them T-port 15 ft directly above the target PC. Maybe O and mate one the first round, then when the PC's begin to develop a strategy, have the 2nd mate drop onto the party spellcaster! OMG - its raining demon monkeys! IMC this qualifys for pounce / charge / scout damage.
Also - My PC's ended last session at the entrance to the temple. When they invade the monkey lair (area 9?? IIRC) what would stop the monkeys from T-porting individual PC's to separate, remote locations to deal with them piecemeal? I mean why not drop one a PC WAAAAAYYYY back on the cliffs, and smack another in the middle of the jungle some miles away. I don't think this would be much fun of course, but it's a pretty basic strategy that one would assume they could have devised. Maybe its better to avoid this route because it would effectively put any PC who failed their Will save out of the combat entirely.
I used the dead sea gulls as suggested here, with great effect, players felt very paranoid after that. Also had the players find bloody torn up body parts in their food bags. The body belong to a character who died in previous session in mummy chamber. They stop making jokes about cannibalism after that!
Good stuff, Czar!
Also - My PC's ended last session at the entrance to the temple. When they invade the monkey lair (area 9?? IIRC) what would stop the monkeys from T-porting individual PC's to separate, remote locations to deal with them piecemeal? I mean why not drop one a PC WAAAAAYYYY back on the cliffs, and smack another in the middle of the jungle some miles away. I don't think this would be much fun of course, but it's a pretty basic strategy that one would assume they could have devised. Maybe its better to avoid this route because it would effectively put any PC who failed their Will save out of the combat entirely.
As far as I can tell, there's nothing stopping the bar-lguras from using that strategy. However, as DM, you may want to come up with a reason to avoid or at least limit it. It could easily lead to a TPK.
I think I'm going to have Olangru issue orders to his mates that they are not allowed to abduct any victims and teleport them outside of the temple. His reasoning is two-fold: 1) The mate could be killed by a powerful character, and then Olangru would have no way of knowing where the character is, and 2) Olangru doesn't trust his mates; he wants to claim the characters' bodies and loot for himself or for sacrifice to Demogorgon.
What do you all think?
Olangru faced a bit more of a problem hereabouts, since the group contained a number of characters with scent and blindsense capabilities who kept detecting him a bit out, usually. This crippled him, but basically anyone who went away from the party's core was on the stalking list.
He "kidnapped" and killed off a familliar (crow) who was fluttering about, then hurled the poor thing back as the fletching on a bamboo spear, striking its erstwhile master. Major grimacing....
He did the same with parts/limbs of other abducted victims (they had saved quite a number of crew and colonists initially), gruesomely draped around sticks etc.
Another trick that worked nicely was him using major images of dinosaurs etc bursting from the jungle, drawing fire and attacks from the nervous party. After a time this paid off when they encountered some more terrorbirds who were quite real....
...and a particularly gross thing we did was leaving the Illusionary "dying body" of an abducted victim (Tavey.... =) ) behind, who showed heavy signs of tortured and having been partially eaten while alive - channeling "Sin City " there.
Then, when the PCs were huddling around their mangeld comrade, he had the "body" explode in a shower of gore, maggots and splinters, all of which turned to dust, ash and brimstone.... nothing being left behind.. major freakout. Nobody ever doubted the corpse having been real for a moment
In fact they found Tavey's half-eaten remains inside the temple later on - made his final demise something the party really relished. Demons have been on their "no mercy" list ever since....
for one - teleporting into the air some place above ground only means that the bar-Igura falls the same way as its victim.
And demons splatter just as nicely as do gnomes, orcs or other humanoids. in DnD 3.5 everyone hits the ground equally hard and within the next 6 seconds, meaning before the suXXXXX can teleport back out.
Besides, the Bar-Igura needs to establish a grapple (not so hard) and then teleport out the following round (harder, if he suddenly finds himself the center of concentrated attacks and Dex-less )... of course the victim has to fail its Will save too.
Then the Bar-Igura may actually teleport away, his new bride closely hugged to his chest in an eternal swooning embrace....
...... for which he needs to make a concentration check (DC 27) to activate a spell like ability in a grapple. DC 20 +7 for "greater teleport"
Lo and behold ! The Bar-Igura has a concentration skill of a mighty +0 ! His chance for success is approximately 5%, a natural "20" !
Actually this means Big O has to grapple and subdue anyone who he wants to port along, unless the victim is actually willing or incapable of physical resistance.
And this way dozens of adventurers are saved by carefully reading the stat-block in the Fiendish Codex -I.
*bows out*
...... for which he needs to make a concentration check (DC 27) to activate a spell like ability in a grapple. DC 20 +7 for "greater teleport"
Lo and behold ! The Bar-Igura has a concentration skill of a mighty +0 ! His chance for success is approximately 5%, a natural "20" !
Actually this means Big O has to grapple and subdue anyone who he wants to port along, unless the victim is actually willing or incapable of physical resistance.
And this way dozens of adventurers are saved by carefully reading the stat-block in the Fiendish Codex -I.
*bows out*
Wow! That HAS to be a mistake! Is the bar-lgura's abduction ability really that broken? Does it really need a Concentration check and a successful grapple attempt? Wow...
^^^^^^
wow - never quite broke it down that way. Wouldnt the grapple check be DC 17 ? ( 10 = spell level? ) Still crappy odds. Either way it seems like a oversite to have this creatures main thing be so hard to do.
As far as the teleport above the taget thing - I was thinking that was just a neat way to get the nasty pounce / scout damage.
I like the image of the partys fighter, whittling a stick for hours while pondering his entrapment in fogmire, suddenly flattened by a 800 lb demon gorilla. I'm pretty shure O could handle a 15- 20 ft drop with no difficulty. Does the ground overcome DR?
DR 5 / the ground?
DR 5 / gravity?
Falling damage ignores DR.
Also, to cast a spell while grappled you must succeed on a Concentration check, DC 20 + spell level. Pages 70, 156, and 170 of the PHB contain all the relevant info.
BTW Tom, those are some awesome ideas! I like the abduction of Thunderstrike, and the backpack TK shenanigans. I might yoink a few of these gems for when my own PCs reach this point. >: )
...Also - My PC's ended last session at the entrance to the temple. When they invade the monkey lair (area 9?? IIRC) what would stop the monkeys from T-porting individual PC's to separate, remote locations to deal with them piecemeal? I mean why not drop one a PC WAAAAAYYYY back on the cliffs, and smack another in the middle of the jungle some miles away. I don't think this would be much fun of course, but it's a pretty basic strategy that one would assume they could have devised. Maybe its better to avoid this route because it would effectively put any PC who failed their Will save out of the combat entirely.
To increase the toying factor, move the character IN SIGHT or at least hearing of the rest of the group but still 'WAAAAAYYYY' far away. They would then have to spend 3-4 rounds at a full run as they watch their party being torn apart. This would be especially scary/tactful/useful for moving a fighter/barbarian who is used to soaking up the hits and doubly so if they do not have any ranged attacks. Even if they do arrive before the rest of the party is destroyed they might be fighting alone or winded.
Besides, the Bar-Igura needs to establish a grapple (not so hard) and then teleport out the following round (harder, if he suddenly finds himself the center of concentrated attacks and Dex-less )... of course the victim has to fail its Will save too.
Since I do not have access to the Fiendish Codex, I am going by the Dungeon and Core Books alone. I assume that is all that is needed for this argument.
The Abduction ability as described in the Dungeon states nothing about a grapple check. Greater Teleport only requires a touch to transport another target creature. My assumption, then, is that Abduction requires only a melee touch attack and a Will save to resist. In addition, Abduction is a supernatural ability, and thereby does not provoke attacks of opportunity. I see no reason why a concentration check would be needed to utilize the bar-Igura's Abduction ability.
Now, should the target of the Abduction resist, the bar-Igura has used its greater teleport anyway, and teleports away with no victim. This results in two combat rounds of wasted action (one to attempt the abduction, and one to get back). Since every action counts, those wasted actions may be enough to sway the battle against the bar-Iguras - which may be why it is not a standard combat tactic.
^^^^^
Good points.
I do however like the RP image of the grappling teleporting monkey. I played the first encounter with Olangru needing a grapple check before the T-port was possible, and it seemed to fit well. This gives the PC's more of a chance to resist, and allows the low will save ftr types to have a hope of not being swept away!
The Abduction ability as described in the Dungeon states nothing about a grapple check. Greater Teleport only requires a touch to transport another target creature. My assumption, then, is that Abduction requires only a melee touch attack and a Will save to resist. In addition, Abduction is a supernatural ability, and thereby does not provoke attacks of opportunity. I see no reason why a concentration check would be needed to utilize the bar-Igura's Abduction ability.
Excellent. That is precisely how I plan to interpret the ability. Thank you for chiming in!
Besides, the Bar-Igura needs to establish a grapple (not so hard) and then teleport out the following round (harder, if he suddenly finds himself the center of concentrated attacks and Dex-less )... of course the victim has to fail its Will save too.
Since I do not have access to the Fiendish Codex, I am going by the Dungeon and Core Books alone. I assume that is all that is needed for this argument.
The Abduction ability as described in the Dungeon states nothing about a grapple check. Greater Teleport only requires a touch to transport another target creature. My assumption, then, is that Abduction requires only a melee touch attack and a Will save to resist. In addition, Abduction is a supernatural ability, and thereby does not provoke attacks of opportunity. I see no reason why a concentration check would be needed to utilize the bar-Igura's Abduction ability.
Now, should the target of the Abduction resist, the bar-Igura has used its greater teleport anyway, and teleports away with no victim. This results in two combat rounds of wasted action (one to attempt the abduction, and one to get back). Since every action counts, those wasted actions may be enough to sway the battle against the bar-Iguras - which may be why it is not a standard combat tactic.
Unfortunately, that assumption is IMO a mistaken one
The bar Igura
"unlike other tanari, can use greater teleport to transport other creatures."
That (alone) is the supernatural part of the ability - if it uses "greater teleport", one of its (Sp) abilities, it can employ _this_ (Su) ability to take someone along, without bothering about SR or activating this specific power. Or would you like to argue that "greater teleport" all of a sudden becomes a (Su) when the Bar-Igura uses it on someone else, but remains only an (Sp) when employed for its own gain ?
I am quoting the "Fiendish Codex -I" here, the most recent official appearance of the Bar-Igura's stats, p.29-30. For a gainful debate, one should consider all relevant sources. I also would like to point out that Dungeon #142, p.49 lists "greater teleport" as a "Spelllike Ability" in Olangru's stat block.Besides, Teleport has a target of "you and others", meaning that it takes effect instantly, with all creatures touching you at that moment coming along (or not, will save permitting). If you don't touch anyone at that moment - noone comes along.
It is not a "touch" spell charging your hands or appendages until released. Nothing in its description indicates that - in fact the opposite. For a spell which actually lets you teleport someone else instead of yourself, check out "Dimension Hop" in the SC
Hence you need to touch someone before activating your (Sp) power, effectively establishing a grapple or other prolonged contact - otherwise it seems unlikely that contact continues with a conscious opponent.
If it activates its power out of AoO range of its intended target = one lonely demon porting before doing anything else, but no check needed.
If it activates its teleport power with 5' of its target for an "immediate touch" (impossible by the rules, but assumed here to drive the following point home ) = DC 22 for casting a (Sp) defensively or suffer an AoO
If it activates the greater teleport while grappling = DC 22 concentration check for using a (Sp) in a grapple
Of course, it does only have its CON-Bonus available for the Concentration roll.
And as for standard combat tactics - the FC-I indicates quite clearly that a Bar-Igura usually uses this tactic only to finish off a solitary opponent if its own HP drop dangerously low. It doesn't use it (at least by its designer's intent) to play shuffleboard with the opposition...
There is also nothing in the adventure itself indicating that the bar-Iguras were intended to be played that way. That is entirely on-board tactical speculation.
And, to be honest, I always found the "greater teleport" ability of many outsiders entirely too cheesy, but well, thus are the rules.
Excellent. That is precisely how I plan to interpret the ability. Thank you for chiming in!
The Abduction ability as described in the Dungeon states nothing about a grapple check. Greater Teleport only requires a touch to transport another target creature. My assumption, then, is that Abduction requires only a melee touch attack and a Will save to resist. In addition, Abduction is a supernatural ability, and thereby does not provoke attacks of opportunity. I see no reason why a concentration check would be needed to utilize the bar-Igura's Abduction ability.
Interpretation is one thing - the rules are something else. As a GM, feel free to modify the rules to fit your style of campaign, but expect the players to use the same bent rules on you...
I used many of the tactics presented in another thread (or in the magazine itself) which seemed to annoy the players. The one that put it over the top however was when I had Olangru use telekinesis to "move" an NPC off the edge of the cliff to their death. For some reason the concept of "save or fall to your death" didn't go over too well with the group.
They traveled the remainder of the journey tied to each other by a rope:)
First off, I'd like to thank you for showing relevant information to the argument that would be in Fiendish Codex. Obviously I cannot reference anything I do not have access to. Your act makes this discussion a bit more relevant.
I can accept, for the sake of this argument, that the use of Abduction is both a Spell-like ability for the greater teleport aspect and a supernatural ability for the chance to take an unwilling target along for the ride. This means that a melee touch, as I have previously stated, would provoke an attack of opportunity (see below).
One way the AoO could be prevented would be to cast defensively. However, with only a small chance of that being effective, it may just be worth it to risk the AoO hitting. If the AoO misses, the ability works; if the AoO hits, the ability likely won't work but the bar-Igura sticks around to continue to fight (if the AoO didn't drop it into negatives). In this light, I can certainly see it being a last-ditch tactic as you have shown is described in Fiendish Codex I.
As to the grapple argument, though, I cannot agree. Teleport is a touch spell - in fact, it is specifically mentioned on PHB 175.
"Some touch spells, such as teleport and water walk, allow you to touch multiple targets. You can touch as many willing targets as you can reach as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell."
Since, as a spell-like ability, greater teleport retains all characteristics of the spell except for those mentioned under Spell-Like Abilities on PHB 180, it would retain that function as well. The bar-Igura would have to initialize the casting (provoking an AoO), then melee touch its target, then the target gets a Will save, and if the save fails the bar-Igura & its target would go elsewhere.
I think slavemind's points are valid. I'm just gonna make some room in O's stats for ranks in Concentration.
Soooooo rules lawyer arguments are fun and all... but what about the creepy Olangru tactics? That was the point of the original poster... Anyone have any furthur suggestions to increase the Creep factor?
Soooooo rules lawyer arguments are fun and all... but what about the creepy Olangru tactics? That was the point of the original poster... Anyone have any furthur suggestions to increase the Creep factor?
Some things I came up with while contemplating jus how to scare the living sXXt out of PCs without the difficulties of hog-tieing down their characters...
- Have Big O lurk underneath the surface of some mud-puddle or shallow pool they have to cross over, a noose/slipknot sling with a heavy attached object held ready. Someplace the characters have to cross over - say by a log or by jumping from hummock to hummock
Have him whip it up over a leg, arm or other extremity after suddenly surfacing in their middle or behind them ( the THING from the black lagoon) and pull the target in (opposed grapple, and probably some hefty modifier for the lasso/sling) and under the surface.
Then he either latches the rope to some underwater branch, anchoring his victim struggling below the surface (and possibly taking some swipes at him for sheer sadistic pleasure ) or grapples him until the poor sod passes out from suffocation/drowning - then he teleports out, with or without the victim (or parts of it ? I truly liked the Lirith's liver idea ! ).
- He snatches someone going out to answer nature's call ( hopefully some NPC ), kills and dismembers him - after all the stupid lad should have known better than to do so in hostile territory, right ?. If possible in one viscious pounce, a prolonged fight will raise too much noise.... then returns to the camp under a "disguise self" spell with parts of the recently slain ( the head comes to mind ) tugged beneath his cloak/robe etc.
Goes to "sleep" in their midst, and then, if the guard looks someplace else or hears something in the darkness beyond, silently teleports out. Next morning, they find the gruesome remains, smack in their middle - having no idea how someone could have been slain right there amongst them...
- Have him pick up a wasp/hornet nest and teleport with it towards the party (he should be pretty immune to their stings, given the damage reduction) . Throw it at them.... then, while the angry wasps etc swarm and harass everyone , he pounces towards them, does a round or two of close combat, taking some trophy and disappears again.... especially wicked if he can pull this off at night while everybody is down and snoozing...
Works equally well with telekinesis, but that supposes that such a nest is available nearby.
- in a swampy area, have him pick somone up with telekinesis (say someone with robes, magey-looking..) and hurl him into a patch of water nearby. A patch of water he picked because there are some giant leeches or a leech swarm (both from Stromwrack) located there. Not as mean as throwing someone off a cliff... but equally "memorable". Especially since casters tend to be less physical, hence worse swimmers. they also tend to be less observant which really helps the leeches....
Finding leeches in a jungle/swamp environment should be..... easy and none too GM-fiat ??
He might also simply drop off some big leeches onto the back of the party of poor thunderstrike from the branches above.
I've been thinking of the "Predator" films in part, with the unseen horror stalking people. Some of the creepiness included: a feeling of being watched, the skinned bodies hanging in the tree (that were actually somewhat hidden) and the way it was clearly stalking the group after a while.
I like the idea of using the telekinesis to good effect--the backpack moving while the barlgura is actually in another direction is very clever. Stalking NPCs who venture too far is good too. Food being stolen is also good. As far as dodging the perceptive pcs goes I'd suggest having the demon use various distractions. One rather good scene in "Predator" (the original) is where they try to set up traps with snares and flares, only to have a pig trip a trap. When they're dealing with the pig the Predator sneaks into the camp and steals the body of one of their comrades. Right out of the body bag.
You can touch as many willing targets as you can reach as part of the casting
But that's only for WILLING targets. The Abduction ability allows it to be used on unwilling. Any unwilling target, it would have to make a touch attack, which means it can't also use the spell-like ability of greater teleport that round. It could teleport the next round (if you are going to say that a touch can be "maintained") or it is going to have to grapple to maintain that touch.
As for the OP: All of that sounds pretty cool and I'm book marking this page for when I run it. My only question is that it sounds like O is doing a LOT of stuff and would worry about your players getting tired of it.
But that's only for WILLING targets. The Abduction ability allows it to be used on unwilling. Any unwilling target, it would have to make a touch attack, which means it can't also use the spell-like ability of greater teleport that round. It could teleport the next round (if you are going to say that a touch can be "maintained") or it is going to have to grapple to maintain that touch.
Well, we're already assuming that a supernatural ability and a spell-like ability are part of the same action, so why not slap on the touch attack as well?
Besides, if the grapple is the right call, that would mean that the Abduction ability is nearly useless, and its Fiendish Codex tactics regarding the Abduction ability as stated in a post above would be invalid.
Why?
- The DC for casting Greater Teleport in a grapple is 27.
- The bar-Igura's Concentration modifier (including CON mod) is +4.
- A natural 20 on a skill check is not an automatic success. (PHB 63)
So the bar-Igura, as written, would never be able to successfully use its Abduction ability, unless its target was already helpless to a sustained touch. If you want to believe that was the designer's intent when crafting the creature, so be it. I know how it's going to work in my game, and I'm sure by now other DMs can decide how it's going to work in theirs.
I'm not going to argue on this anymore - I'm hoping to return to the regularly scheduled programming.
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As to more creepiness, I'm a big fan of utilizing Major Image to depict "ghosts".
The fourteen 10' cubes Olangru gets should be enough to surround a sizable campsite - perhaps with tattered robed chanting cultists, starting at a whisper of a chant, and having it grow louder and louder until it suddenly cuts off.
Or maybe the "ghost" of a passenger that was aboard the Sea Wyvern appears to give a dire warning - "the essense of the isle has poisoned your rations" or "We knew one among you would betray us all..."
>> If you want to believe that was the designer's intent when crafting the creature, so be it.
Yes, I believe that the ability is to be used only in rare circumstances. If the only defense against the teleport is the Will save, then it's game over for any PC that fails: Teleported 3 miles up, teleported to a cave on the other side of the ocean.
The Teleport could also be used as a surprise: Invisibly sneak up, touch as a surprise attack, win Init, teleport victim away.
A monster's skills are also, of course, only a sample. If you want to teleport your PCs about, swap some of the skill points around.
he needs to make a concentration check (DC 27) to activate a spell like ability in a grapple. DC 20 +7 for "greater teleport"
Technically correct, except that he doesn't actually need to grapple. He just makes a melee touch attack, if it hits the target gets a will save, if he fails he is teleported along with the demon.
edit: I posted too quickly, there is more to be clarified.
The PHB P.141 tells us that touch attacks do not provoke AoOs.
Page 142 tells us that supernatural abilities, such as the Bar-Lgura's Abduction ability, do not require concentration checks, nor do they provoke AoOs.
I had Olangru use his Illusion ability to make it appear as if one of the PCs was sleep-walking off the cliff.
Had stuff go missing (dropped of the cliff by TK) so that the party began to think one of the NPCs was behind it.
I had him recover the body of a dead NPC (I had about 20 NPCs make it off the Sea-Wyvern, which the party then escorted south) that the party had buried and rig them upside down on a cross like the zombie they meet later.
I had him abduct and execute some other NPCs. When a party member flew up to where he was holding a father and an infant child he abducted he gave the player the choice of which one he could save. Teleported away with one and let the other one fall (PC flew down and caught them).
After killing the Gargoyle king, one player cut its head of desecrated it and stuck it on a spike (believing the gargoyles were behind the spooky stuff) as a warning. The next night I left them alone, the following night the Bar-lgaru attacked in force, an NPC was abducted, and the next morning they found his head on a spike desecrated in the same manner. The NPCs wife then flew at the PC blaming him for teaching such foul acts to the demons (which I thought was nice).
Wow, that was nicely done...very creepy too. I mean--that's Olangru in a nutshell, replacing the head with another one.
My pcs found it one of the most disturbing parts of the Isle of Dread adventure actually. The worst was Olangru pretending to be the torture victim (one of the sailors, a tough old sailmaker whose screams of horror fading into the night chilled them) and then viciously attacking his rescuer.
I had Olangru use his Illusion ability to make it appear as if one of the PCs was sleep-walking off the cliff.
Had stuff go missing (dropped of the cliff by TK) so that the party began to think one of the NPCs was behind it. ...
Nice. Take it one step farther or actually two steps and have the cliff be an extra 10 long with the illusion, when anyone rushes to rescue the sleep walker... well you know. Maybe give them a little sign to hold up that says 'Yipes!"
Man, I am totally stealing most of these ideas. Kudos!
I just house-ruled Olangru (but not his mates) with re-arranged skill points to max out his Concentration skill - which made him MUCH more formidable.
Of course, I also ended up with an Olangru with Ghost-Faced Killer PrC levels in addition to another level or two of Scout to qualify when all was said and done at one point - fragged a high-ish level Fighter in ONE attack with Olangru that way. ^_^
That's crazy, Turin O_o I'm so very much stealing most of these in one form or another when my game gets this far. :D
That's crazy, Turin O_o I'm so very much stealing most of these in one form or another when my game gets this far. :D
I'm thinking to post the stat-blocks I used at various points for Olangru, among others, on my campaign journal. ^_^
BTW, posted both of the stat blocks for Olangru for the "enjoyment" of one's own players. May he continue to abduct, dismember, molest and terrify many more characters to come.
Falling damage ignores DR.
This is real important (for a completely unrelated reason) in my campaign. Where can I find this little nugget in the rules? I looked under Damage Reduction and Falling Damage and didn’t find it. I know this is going to come up at the very next game session – one of the PCs put on the Gargoyle Crown and leapt off the cliff … don’t ask! His reasoning is that, unless the rocks below are comprised of adamantium, he should receive DR 5.
Seriously, I’m thinking of giving him a stupidity penalty.
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I'm not sure if it's specifically mentioned, but the SRD says "A creature with this special quality ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks." It's pretty obvious that it's meant for weapons, and falling damage is untyped so you can't choose which DR type could apply...
I know my party killed the Varrangoin by jumping on it from a great height and riding it into the ground (it was almost dead when their spells ran out, one had slippers of spider climb).
I'm not sure if it's specifically mentioned, but the SRD says "A creature with this special quality ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks." It's pretty obvious that it's meant for weapons, and falling damage is untyped so you can't choose which DR type could apply...
I know my party killed the Varrangoin by jumping on it from a great height and riding it into the ground (it was almost dead when their spells ran out, one had slippers of spider climb).
Thanks, Carb. I read that, too, but I didn't think of it that way. I think that's what I'll use as my DM justification, though.
Thanks, again!
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I doubt I could have argued it if I wanted it to work on my players. They wanted to use falling damage to bypass his DR before he fireballed them again (I made him a sorceror 7 on top of everything else, great fight!) and argued that he couldn't apply damage reduction because falling damage was untyped.
Good old players - signing their own death warrants! Wait til I get them to the gargoyle cliffs! (This week Mother of All, I hope)
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16
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Why wouldn't DR reduce falling damage? If it'll reduce the damage a boulder does why not the reverse of you smacking into a boulder? The only damage that bypasses DR other than it's specific material, alignment, weapon type, or magic are spells/spell-like abilities, supernatural abilities, and energy.
Falling damage is purely physical and DR applies. Let your PC's have a little fun with their DR. Besides 5 points off of a 70 foot fall is only 20% on average.
--Vrocknrolla.
Why wouldn't DR reduce falling damage? If it'll reduce the damage a boulder does why not the reverse of you smacking into a boulder? The only damage that bypasses DR other than it's specific material, alignment, weapon type, or magic are spells/spell-like abilities, supernatural abilities, and energy.
Falling damage is purely physical and DR applies. Let your PC's have a little fun with their DR. Besides 5 points off of a 70 foot fall is only 20% on average.
--Vrocknrolla.
Well, he's going to survive. He's initiating the leap, so the first ten feet is non-lethal. If he makes a tumble roll, that basically negates ten, so we're down to 60'. He can take 60 hp, but average 30, without breaking a sweat - or even many bones.
It's just the principle of the thing. He's been playing stupid. I'd doing it intentionally because his character is "young and brash," but for crying out loud, he's 7th level for pitty's sake. That's not young and brash - that's retarded! You don't get to 7th level and say, "I'm leaping off this 80' ledge!"
Yeah, I know; that's not the point. Two completely seperate issues. It's just the one poster said DR doesn't apply in a case like this and I wanted to know the reasoning.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32
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We had the whole
"He's just tough and can take it."
"It doesn't matter how hard his skin is, his organs are mush."
argument.
At one stage the wizard's player said, "Shaking his organs about when he lands is basically slow-motion sonic damage."
That's round about when I figured I was about to give in. I mean, if they want it THAT badly...
Plus, if he fell on a pin, is it instantly converted to piercing damage and therefore subject to damage resistance? (Naaaahhh)
Or on a stalagmite? (Probably)
Two stalagmites? Six? Ten small ones? A bed of nails? A bed of stalagmites?
LOL - it got a bit silly.
By the rules, falling damage somehow inexplicably avoids DR, which is listed as only being applicable against weapons and natural attacks. So, conversely, by the rules, not only does falling damage not apply, neither does the damage done by a person falling on you, since they are not a weapon.
Technically, we could argue that a boulder thrown by a giant ignores DR, because it is not a weapon (as in, listed in the PHB weapon table), however, common sense tells us it is either an improvised weapon, or a racial weapon.
Also, we could argue that a human punching a creature with DR bypasses the DR, because a punch is not considered a "natural weapon" unless the character is a monk.
And lets not even get into the various traps that use crushing walls, scything blades, or spiked pits.
Rules loopholes abound.
I rule DR as follows. DR applies against physical damage caused by physical means. Spells that deal physical damage and do not allow SR are subject to DR (there's only a few of them, and they already say this in their text). In the event of compounded damage, such as sneak attack, or a spiked pit trap, the damage is treated as one entire unit, rather than two separate units. Just as the precision of sneak attack makes it more likely that a target is injured, so too does the momentum of a fall make it more likely a subject is intured by the spikes below.
This works for me and my group. Granted, it makes monsters a smidgin stronger, but if you consitently use falling damage to kill your enemeies, I don't really know what to say. As it is, it also makes barbarians feel a bit better about their class abilities, and makes the fighter actually consider getting the invunerable property on his armor. Use it if you like.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16
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Spells that deal physical damage and do not allow SR are subject to DR (there's only a few of them, and they already say this in their text).
Spells that list that out like Ice Storm and Meteor Swarm aren't telling you that information to bypass DR it's telling you that for creatures with Energy Resistances. Spells always bypass DR. BUt your houserules work for you...
I'm still of the school that DR affects any physical non-magical trauma a creature suffers.
--Vrockslide!
Actually, I was refering to spells in the Spell Compendium that specifically say Damage Reduction applies to their effects. But I realise I was being vague, my apologies.
I'm still of the school that DR affects any physical non-magical trauma a creature suffers.
--Vrockslide!
"The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones" So, presumably, like natural lightning? Ohat about fire? What if the creature can't breath (drowning) - does the DR work then? Why energy and not falling?
Here's the thing: What IS "damage reduction"? It's not regeneration - that's something else entirely. Can you think of any example outside of D&D that is like Damage Reducion? Warewolves can't be hurt by anything but silver - that's not DR, that's invulnerability (I'm taling outside D&D). What I'm getting to is the spirit of the rule. It's just a device of the d20 cobat rules to make certain creatures just a smige more difficult to kill. That's why I say it's a combat based thing. Outside of that, it's irrelevent.
Anyway, discuss amongst yourselves, but our game was tonight and there was no arguement, so we set a house rule about it for the future.
Thanks for all the imput. Oh, and "on topic" my group got their first direct brush with Olangur tonight and they said it was my best DMing yet. I think that was a compliment and not to say I sucked up until now.
Olangru is a fun antagonist to GM - try not to permit your characters to frag him before 'his time'. It helps if you put your own spin on him and, of course, retool his skills so his Concentration (Spellcraft in Pathfinder Beta) is up to snuff.
Oh, and as I recall, falling damage is classified as bludgeoning damage. Imagine doing so in certain environments - say, consecrated or desecrated ground, or on similar planar lands - to find that even the very ground bypasses certain types of DR. ^_^
Olangru is a fun antagonist to GM - try not to permit your characters to frag him before 'his time'. It helps if you put your own spin on him and, of course, retool his skills so his Concentration (Spellcraft in Pathfinder Beta) is up to snuff.
I’ll be updating my blog soon, but in the mean time…
During one of those “you fell like you’re being watched” moments, the cleric/mage (who has still spell and silent spell metamagic feats) cast “Detect evil” and got of whiff of the Big O, but couldn’t see him (invisible). I considered having him jaunt out, but I didn’t want to give away his teleportation, so I had him withdraw.
The players immediately drew the “Predator” association and, metagaming though it may be, they responded in character and tried to do a forced march to out-pace him (ha, ha!)
The darkness pebble thing freaked them out, big time. They asked if they should roll initiative and I say, “Yep,” even though I didn’t intend it to be a combat scenario. So they stumble out of the area of effect and when it comes to ‘the monster’ I just say, “The Monster takes its action” – after reasonable brow scrunching and thoughtfulness, maybe some dice rolled. Now their really freaking out. I THOUGHT that the cleric would cast Detect Evil again, but he didn’t. Instead he cast a summon spell and called up a Lantern Archon. I was, like, “frack!” cause I don’t know anything about them and I had to look the thing up and decide if its light cuts through the darkness So I just said, “No, unless you know something I don’t, it’s as blind as you are.” I figured, you summoned it, you do the research. Well, he decides the have the thing fly out of the darkness and see what it can see. I had already decided to have Big O be offended by the Archon’s presence and want to destroy it in the next round, so I decided to play it bold. The Archon flies out, about 40’ from the edge of the darkness, where it cannot be seen by the caster (still in the darkness) but can be seen by the characters who have already exited the darkness (Maybe 100 ft. for them and about 20 ft up. Suddenly, Olangu jaunts right next to the thing, claw-claw-bite, and it only 8 hps to start; it was brutal and swift. The way I described it (Large in size, monstrous humanoid – maybe – it’s hard to tell) and the sound effects I did (I scared even myself with the sounds that came out of my throat) – it was like a cross between Hulk and Predator. They were freaking OUT!
Then Urol emerges from the darkness with Thunderstrike and they immediately realize the saddlebags are missing. One of the fighters says, “Is their anything missing form my pack?” I responded, “Oh, are you carrying your pack? Did you grab after you woke, before you staggered out of the darkness?” No, of course not. So, they weren’t a bit surprised to find that all their food and water was missing was missing.
They start marching again (Spell casters are almost out of spells and can’t rest). Next time they camp, the darkness again. The two fighters decide not to wake the casters and physically guard them (Hand on the sleeper’s chest to make sure he’s still breathing – I almost laughed!)
But Barnaby was Olangru’s target. He teleports the servant away and, after the darkness passes, he uses his illusion to make it look like Barnaby is still sleeping. In the morning, when they debrief on the night’s events, “Barnaby” freaks out and runs off the illusionary extended cliff, which almost leads the mage and a fighter to follow after (They made their Will save to realize the ledge was an illusion, but they never guessed that Barnaby was an illusion!)
And that’s only PART of what happened last night.
*casts resurrection*
The PCs are traveling with a young couple. After the second night, he and his mates abduct the pair and then Olangru leaves a programmed image of the two. When the PCs are packing up to head out, the two suddenly sit up, clasp hands and skip headlong over the ledge, smiling all the while. Before they fall, the girl turns her head a full 180 degrees, winks and says, "You should have turned back you know..."
Of course...the ledge itself will be an illusion as well (as someone earlier suggested) :D
PS: Troy, I'm really enjoying your blog. When will you put up updates?