So a known issue with Savage Tide is that there are few shops for buying new magic items, or NPCs for upgrading the enchantment on weapons and armor.
One of my players' characters currently has a weird weapon (a +1 spiked chain, that he commissioned before they left Sasserine). Are there be any potential problems with providing an "upgrade kit" as treasure (say, instead of a different magic weapon that's of no interest to anyone in the party) that would upgrade any weapon it's applied to?
This upgrade kit might be a +1 weapon upgrade kit, or a flaming weapon upgrade kit, or a arrow catching shield upgrade kit, or whatever. Its value may obviously vary, depending on the enchantments already on the weapon it's applied to. Aside from that, is there any problem with valuing it at the difference between (the current value of the weapon it's applied to) and (the resulting value of the weapon it's applied to)? (Thus, if a flaming weapon upgrade kit is applied to a +1 spiked chain, its value would be 6000 gp -- the difference in value between a +1 spiked chain and a +1 flaming spiked chain, or a +2 spiked chain for that matter.)
So a known issue with Savage Tide is that there are few shops for buying new magic items, or NPCs for upgrading the enchantment on weapons and armor.
One of my players' characters currently has a weird weapon (a +1 spiked chain, that he commissioned before they left Sasserine). Are there be any potential problems with providing an "upgrade kit" as treasure (say, instead of a different magic weapon that's of no interest to anyone in the party) that would upgrade any weapon it's applied to?
This upgrade kit might be a +1 weapon upgrade kit, or a flaming weapon upgrade kit, or a arrow catching shield upgrade kit, or whatever. Its value may obviously vary, depending on the enchantments already on the weapon it's applied to. Aside from that, is there any problem with valuing it at the difference between (the current value of the weapon it's applied to) and (the resulting value of the weapon it's applied to)? (Thus, if a flaming weapon upgrade kit is applied to a +1 spiked chain, its value would be 6000 gp -- the difference in value between a +1 spiked chain and a +1 flaming spiked chain, or a +2 spiked chain for that matter.)
An alternative to the upgrade kits you mention (which are a good idea, but cannot take into account the strong possibility of weaponry and armor of varied enhancement values amongst the party members) are the augment crystals from the Magic Item Enyclopedia splatbook.
An alternative alternative, should your party have one or more item crafters in the roster [and a Mystic Theurge makes for a truly horrifyingly able dedicated item crafter, especially should you use a house rule which permits the character who is to receive the item participate in the creation process and therefor pay the xp and materials costs themselves] is to permit item crafting characters to 'convert' the enchantments on the various items of schwag into 'potential' which they can transfer to an existing magical item of like kind. This potential would be the xp and gp costs that the item itself has within it less the cost of the masterwork item proper. (Thus, should they for example loot 20 +1 swords, they have a combined potential of 20,000 gpv and 800 xpv available from those weapons.) That potential in turn could be used, presuming the crafter has the prerequisite spells and caster level, to improve an existing weapon. A shorthand would be to 'convert' the non-masterwork costs of such looted items into useable base market value of enchantments for the same category of item the potential was drawn from. The shorthand for the above example would be 40,000 gpv - thus, the +1 spiked chain (2,000 gpv) could be improved - over a 40-day stretch of game time - to a weapon with a maximum market value of 42,000 gpv.
This potential would have to be limited to within the same category of item. Magical weapon potential could not be transferred over to armor - or it could, but at half monetary value - nor to wondrous items, potions, rods, staves et al. For items that transcend multiple item creation feats, thier potential could be transferred into other items of the 'subtypes'. (Such as the potential locked within a Staff of Power, representing Arms and Armor as well as Craft Staff if memory serves.)
All 3 of the above methods are quite viable ways to provide for 'field upgrading' of magical items rather than requiring endless months of toil to craft the relevant masterwork items that is subsequently followed by the item creation process.
This short coming is why before I start any of the moduels I list out all the magic items and swap out some of the items with equivalent value items that cater more to the group. But yeah, the Magic Item Compendium cyrstal thing may be your best bet. Other options include maybe an Ancestral Weapon feat sort thing which is in the Exalted Deeds book.
Edit: Or Weapons of Legacy sort of thing which personally I like.
a good idea, but cannot take into account the strong possibility of weaponry and armor of varied enhancement values amongst the party members
At this instant in time ("Sea Wyvern's Wake", post-Tamoachan), nobody has anything bigger than +1. I'll need to pay attention later on; my instinct is to value it assuming it were applied to the biggest item, and if the players apply it to a less-valuable item, that's their choice.
An alternative to the upgrade kits you mention are the augment crystals from the Magic Item Enyclopedia splatbook.
We're only playing with the three core books. In a couple of sentences, how do these crystal thingies work?
An alternative alternative, should your party have one or more item crafters in the roster ... is to permit item crafting characters to 'convert' the enchantments on the various items of schwag into 'potential' which they can transfer to an existing magical item....
None of the spellcasters (the sorceress/fighter/soon-to-be-eldritch-knight, and the ranger) have taken item crafting feats yet, and I'm not inclined to "punish" the fighter for their feat choices, so this may not be relevant, but I like this idea.
Or Weapons of Legacy sort of thing which personally I like.
Hm, I know of this, and there's something maybe similar on d20srd.org (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/legendaryWeapons.htm); I'll look into that.
Thanks for the advice so far; other input is certainly welcome.
This short coming is why before I start any of the moduels I list out all the magic items and swap out some of the items with equivalent value items that cater more to the group.
Yeah, that's kind of what I'm trying to do; I just have some sort of "plausibility" hangup about there being a half dozen or so magic spiked chains lying around between Sasserine and the City of Broken Idols.
Which raises the question of the plausibility of "upgrade kits".
I know, I'm probably putting too much thought into this already.
An alternative alternative... is to permit item crafting characters to 'convert' the enchantments on the various items of schwag into 'potential' which they can transfer to an existing magical item...
Artificers can do this, via Retain Essence (I think that's what it's called), they destroy an item and retain its XP potential as a craft reserve. It doesn't retain the material cost, but it's still quite a boost (my artificer is particularly fond of sucking down loot wands like they were Pixie Stix).
How about you just let the fighter have the "virtual" feat Craft Spiked Chain, and waive the spell casting pre-reqs. Basically, just like crafting, he sacrifices XP and Raw (magic?) Materials, and can upgrade his weapon.
The DMG2 has rules that cover this very thing, but I don't have it, so I can't give you the details.
An alternative to the upgrade kits you mention are the augment crystals from the Magic Item Enyclopedia splatbook.We're only playing with the three core books. In a couple of sentences, how do these crystal thingies work?
Thanks for the advice so far; other input is certainly welcome.
Augment Crystals are a new addition from the Magic Item Compendium.
What they have done is give weapons armor and shields "augment slots" built in that permit you to attach these crystals to the item to buff them while they are attached. Weapon crystals can be attached to any weapon, armor crystals can be attached to any armor or item that provides an armor bonus (yay bracers of armor) and shield crystals can only be attached to shields (or shield bonus magic items if you can find one that makes a physical shield)
There are three levels of potency,
least, which can be attached to a masterwork or greater item,
lesser, which can be attached to any +1 enhancement or greater item,
greater, which can be attached to any +3 enhancement or greater item.
the power of the crystal is based on the type of item it needs to attach to, so where a least elemental crystal might add 1 point of fire damage, the lesser adds 1d6 fire damage.
There are a decent variety of crystals, and in STAP they work well as written. In other situations, I think some of the crystals are far too cheap (its cheaper to get a crystal of +1d6 elemental damage than to enchant your weapon to do it permenantly)
The main benefit of the crystals is that if you later upgrade your weapon or don't need that effect any longer, you can simply remove the crystal and pass it to a party member that does need it.
I do love the Augment Crystals, but be warned that some of them are REALLY strong for their cost. Some of the ones like Demonslayer are ridiculously strong (bypass all DR, +1d6 damage) especially when you consider that you can then put more useful properties on the core weapon (bane, axiomatic, etc) without having to worry about the cold iron/holy set to get through DR.
But then again, I'm a firm beleiver that the listed prices of magic items are better suited for reverse engineering the cost to create, than the actual value of the item.
I mean, come on, in a land where orcs raid the frontier all the time, do you honestly think you could go and pick up a +1 Orc Bane longsword for 8000 gp? If the kingdom can produce enough +1 Orc Bane weapons to meet the demand of an orcish incursion, then WHY is the orcish incursion still happening? What are people doing with the weapons, giving them to the orcs as peace offerings? So then if the kingdom can't make enough of them to crush the orcs utterly, the ones they can make will be in high demand and it could become (in more lawful societies) illegal to wield one without some sort of license validating your ability to do the most good with it (as opposed to getting killed on the feild and having an orc break it).
Tangent over.
I will use another Idea for upgrading magic weapons: In one dragon from a few years ago, there was that idea of combining magic items to enhance the power of each, lifted from the computer game Heroes of Might and Magic (three, I think). So, if you have several of these "set items" they make each other stronger. I designed a set of five items for each of my PCs, custom made for their classes.
For the knight, for example, I have a magic full plate, which, if owned alone, is a full plate +1 with light fortification. If owned together with, say, the shield of this set, the plate mail is +2 and gives DR 2/-, in addition to the light fortification. If you add the Lance, it is a +3 armor with moderate fortification.
I condense it in a table:
Armor:
1 item: +1 bonus, light fort, skill check penalty reduced by 1
2 items: +2 bonus, DR 2/-, skill check penalty reduced by 2
3 items: +3 bonus, moderate fort, skill check penalty reduced by 3
4 items: +4 bonus, DR 5/- skill check penalty reduced by 4
5 items: +5 bonus, heavy fort, skill check penalty reduced by 5
I´ll post the other items and the set for the archer and the cleric, if you are interested.
I know that this are no minor items, and you might argue that all five together are of artifact level. I have handed out one item for the cleric, and one for the knight, at level three. I plan on handing them out over the course of the campaign, and think that they will own all five at level 18 or thereabouts, which would result in giving them one item every three or four levels. I think that this is within reason.
Stefan
You could occasionally send the players on "Magic Item enhancement Quests." Like... when they're in the island of Dread, to gain an additional +1 and flaming, they can climb to the top of the (other) volcano, probably fighting off fire elementals with the spiked chain, and then when they get to the top, they plunge the chain into the fires.
The thread ... livvves!
Firstly, the Magic Item Compendium covers rules for a spellcaster to upgrade items. Basically, the spellcaster must be able to craft the final item from scratch, and spends the time necessary to do so, but only pays the GP/XP costs for the difference.
As far as an "upgrade kit", consider the Golem Manuals from the DMG. They're magic items that grant you a +5 competence bonus to craft a specific Golem's body, and grant you the Craft Construct feat for the purposes of crafting that Golem. It wouldn’t be a stretch to make a "+2 Weapon Manual". The player could then use the book to either upgrade a weapon, or enchant a new one.
I knew about upgrading magic items (that's even in the DMG, or at least the SRD as presented on d20srd.org -- though it's pretty well buried in the text). But good catch on the golem manual precedent; I can work with that.
Or, you COULD just have a wizard or whatnot "contracted" from Sasserine or some other place to come to Far Shore and do the enchantments. Of course, this may or may not be feasible, depending on multiple factors.
I've thought about this, and hesitated because I didn't want to provide the players with extra resources to defend Farshore. You made me reconsider, though, and I was overthinking things. (It's not like most of the rest of the NPCs are doing things on-screen; they're just abstracted out to do as well as the PCs.) So this is a good option to get them through the Isle, at which point it'll be less of an issue (Scuttlecove, and the mobile mercane shop in Gaping Maw, should take care of things adequately).
You could occasionally send the players on "Magic Item enhancement Quests." Like... when they're in the island of Dread, to gain an additional +1 and flaming, they can climb to the top of the (other) volcano, probably fighting off fire elementals with the spiked chain, and then when they get to the top, they plunge the chain into the fires.
Also not a bad suggestion; thanks!
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i am now starting adventure # 8, Serpents of Scuttlecove, this Sunday.
things i have noticed:
no psionic treasure. (to be expected, sure, but when there's 2 psionic characters in the group, there had to be SOME psi-treasure)
no "ready-to-go" custom weapons. if your fighter wants a Holy, Cold-Iron spiked chain, he's gonna need to find an enchanter (likely in sasserine) cough up the dough, and wait the requisite time. unless your party starts teleporting all over creation like mine, just the travel time will be sufficient for things to be done before they get back.
plenty of "pick your stuff" item drops. theres a couple of big caches of gear in the 5th adventure, when the party is about 9th or 10th lvl. plenty of time for them to explore around and if need be, find what they're looking for.
no real need to "help" the fighter-types find magic weapons. if hes dead set on using that spiked chain as his primary, go for it, but there's also plenty of rapiers, daggers, spears, longswords, warhammers, and the like to pick from. perhaps you can even get him away from the statistical anomaly called the spiked chain.
also, if you go over the weapon-wielding enemies, you can easily drop an item that fits your PCs a bit better in place of what they have as written.
in the end, i wouldn't necessarily put the "weapon-enhancement-manual" in play, but your mileage may vary.
-the hamster
I was searching the boards for a way to upgrade weapons (magic enhancement or abilities) and stumbled upon this older thread.
Magic crystals sound great, I was thinking much of the same way to do this. This way the DM keeps control of things: crystals can be extremely rare and found only during certain adventures (dungeons) or for sale on an exotic market (where only one is available). And players get to keep the weapons that are dear to them (heirloom, souvernirs from early adventures with their own stories or memories of fallen comrades).
A specialist may be needed to imbed the crystals into the weapons, who charges hourly rates, adding to the cost. This specialist has some basic crystals for sale (standard price) but not much.
Any other thoughts on this subject or threads discussing the same topic?
I am currently running a somewhat modified Savage Tide campaign and have given some thought to this matter as well (the barbarian uses a trident).
Probably not strictly according to the rules:
- somewhat in line with the Golem manuals above: scrolls of e.g. "how to make a holy weapon". You could rule that the scroll in itself is sufficient to allow a spell caster (even without the appropriate craft feat) to enchant/upgrade the weapon, or that additional components (listed in the scroll) are necessary (Do I hear s.o. say "plot hook"?).
In the past (2E), I have used this approach with a scroll of "how to make gauntlets of ogre power"
- somewhat in line with the augment crystals: I picture special enchanted (flaming, keen, etc) gems, pearls, ... which can be placed in the weapon (e.g. it can be the pommel of the sword) and which confer their enchantment to the weapon. A master craftsman or appropriate spell caster can then (for a fee) transfer the enchanted item to another weapon.
- The church of the whirling fury has offered (for a reduced price) to enchant his trident (barbarian is follower of CotWF) - they see some more demon slaying in his future...
- potions & oils (oil of keen edge, ...)
Hagor