Specific Magic Weapons

[Calliope5431]

Anyone have experience running these? Things like flame tongue, frost brand, or their remaster equivalents (searing blade and icicle respectively)?

They're kinda mechanically...weak compared to a basic, non-special magic weapon tricked out with property runes. For instance, comparing greater storm flash to a normal +3 weapon...it's got only a single property rune (greater shock), compared to the THREE that a generic +3 weapon could normally have. A single lightning bolt (without scaling DC!) and divert lightning don't really make up for it.

Do people have suggestions for how to boost them? Or make them feel better? I love the idea of things like Sting, Orcrist, and Glamdring in Lord of the Rings, unique weapons with unique histories and unique powers...but they just seem so underwhelming right now.

[Karmagator]

Yup, that's exactly the problem. There is no mechanical incentive to actually use more than a few of them and even many of those have an exceedingly short shelf life. In my group, we've had a couple and every time a basic weapon became categorically better within a level or two at most. Or started off that way... . It's only once you get into the really high level stuff (16+ or so) that this dynamic changes somewhat. Especially for the Gunslinger - star guns are easily the best ranged weapons in the game. But good luck getting one XD

As for boosting them, we have just started straight-up ignoring the "no property rune" rule. Most of these things simply don't add enough power to make this problematic. You have to be careful, though, I'm pretty sure in some cases that can get pretty spicy. SO even if you do that, the GM should keep an eye on things.

[25speedforseaweedleshy]

maybe homebrew that special effect of specific weapon or armor count as 1 property rune

that would make them far more competitive

[YuriP]

The most PF2 specific items have 2 main problems. The DC problem and the scaling problem.

While the designers made a incredible work with the rune system to allow the players to build their own weapons/armors but they simply used the old D&D fashioned specific items rules. This ends making a big utility diference between then with only some specific items only worthing in some levels only.

In general the thing is in a point that rarely worth to even to check specific items for a weapon or armor. Instead most players just check the runes and ignores the specific items in general.

Its a thing that many people point to be improved into the future for PF3 (also can already made for SF2 too) once that for PF2 we already have a bunch of items just create better ones for a new Treasure Vault like book will just make the players to ignore the specific items from all book printed before.
IMO such situation already happens with spellhearts and talimans but yet limited to casting players (but Magus, Rangers, Champions and Monks also can use them pretty easilly due their Spell DCs progression).

25speedforseaweedleshy wrote:

maybe homebrew that special effect of specific weapon or armor count as 1 property rune

that would make them far more competitive

The problem is that the balance is not exactly the same. If you want homebrew in this way probably you need to consider the item level too. For example, specific items from level 2-9 as having 1 property rune, 2 for levels 10-15 and 3 starting from level 16 for weapons and for armors is 5-10 for 1 property rune, 2 for levels 11-17 and 3 starting from level 18.

[Calliope5431]

There's also the cost issue. A greater searing blade costs less money than its component runes.

Because a +3 potency rune plus greater striking plus greater flaming costs 16,500 gp. Whereas greater searing blade is only 13,800. And has additional properties as well.

It looks like a bargain. But the problem is that the whole thing is probably inferior to a +3 greater striking flaming frost shock longsword, which only costs 11,500 gp. Because a single greater energy rune is just waaaay worse than three non-greater energy runes.