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Ive been considering the idea of placing a restriction on teleportation magic (specifically on teleport and Grt. teleport). Something similar to how faerzress works in the underdark of the FR. My reason to do this stems from the way that some of the adventures imply that the PC's should travel and explore from place to place either on foot or with the Sea Wyvern, but mainly from the fact that I really hate the idead of just grt. teleporting to Sasserine (Or where ever) so the PC's can buy and sell stuff. I was already planning on adjusting treasure but I know my player's are going to want to buy certain things and that this will eventually require them to do this. This is basiclly what happened in our SCAP and while I was just a player in that campaign it still drove me nuts! I guess long story short what do you folks think. Am I just being a sore sport or what.
Director of Narrative
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"Now the world don't move to the beat of just one drum, what might be right for you, might not be right for some."
While I have no problem with what another DM does in his or her campaigns, I was wondering if you'd given any thought to what you were going to create to make this happen? Is there some ancient magic permeating the area that makes teleportation spells unreliable, if not dangerous? Will the use of such conjurations draw unwanted evil attention?
If the acquisition of treasure is your main reason to affect a type of spell then why not just get your players to make a wishlist and then seed those items throughout the campaign instead of the ones written into the adventures? Or, alternately, you could drop in an NPC that could craft or obtain what was wanted/needed by the group.
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Creative Director
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Remember also that teleport can mess up. If you're off target teleporting to Renkrue from Farshore... your party's gonna end up in the ocean or on some unknown island. An island that might have some sort of freaky black smoke monster or a bunch of underground hatches?
In any case, I'd suggest not limiting teleport. Especially since the monstrs that live there use it so much in their tactics...
I sympathize with you in your desire to keep the game "grounded" or kept to a mostly overland crawl. However...
Oh, and don't forget the Vrocks in Tides of Dread in the battle for Farshore.
At any rate, you will have a lot of rewriting or tweaking to do if you decide to carry out your idea. And, honestly, why take away the PCs' cool spells when they are high enough level to use them? That doesn't sound like fun to me.
2) Teleport only transports you 100 miles per level. That's 900 miles at 9th level. Assuming that you're using the Grayhawk campaign setting, that means you need a minimum of 2 teleports to reach Sasserine! Other Campaign settings might require even more!And that is IF you spent time memorizing a half-way point back when you were 5th level.
two things to consider here, IMHO.
First, even if teleporting to a nearby major city (the mileage limit, as well as Stop-over points etc. come to mind) is being done, with the standard "treasure sells for 50%" rule applied, this means that the PCs actually spend twice as much on their "made-to-order" purchases, simply because they only recaive half a sold item's worth and then have to pay full-price for the new one.
Second, it might just be the only way to actually acquire some stuff, or feasibly explain ( story-wise) training some skills and knowledges. Wizards in particular will feel a dire need for this course of action, since with the treasures to be found throughtout the STAP, they are royally scXXXed as far as spell acquisition is concerned - kudos to JJacobs for admitting to that minor quibble =)
Just remember ruling the "teleport" spell strictly as far as first hand knowledge etc for a teleport-location is concerned, and your players will usually be queasy enough to employ it as it is (especially if informed of it beforehand, even if only to avoid the crying "foul" ).
As a house rule (since hereabouts teleport tended to dominate melee encounters ), consider employing a "fatigued" result ( strain on the body adjusting after transport) and perhaps and a short "reorientation" phase upon materializing from a standard teleport. "Greater Teleport" should be unaffected, though.
As an aside, even if you nerf the use of "teleport" on the Isle, serious players will likely resort to "Windwalk" (clerics level 11+ ) or "Shadow Walk" (Wiz 11+ ) etc. in order to reach "civilisation" once they get the necessary level.
And even fancier means of travel are certainly possible - one druid (gnome, with the elemental companion feature from complete Mage ) uses an air elemental to carry him as a flying, tireless steed... at a speed of flying 90', Sasserine is only a single day's flight away....
Because, one thing is for certain, trying to block the players' course of action will almost certainly result in them trying to work around it.
Good Luck
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Good points everyone.
I guess my two major concerns was the fear of the players missing out on the coolness of the Isle through encounters they will miss that showcase some of the Isle feautres, and knowing my players they will forgo the ship travel if teleportation is a better option (which again come to the point of missing out on a cool aspect of the AP).
Secondly the treasure aspect peaves me the most. Should the players have treasure? Yes! Should they get every last item that they desire...in my opinion no. I had thought that this teleport misshap thing would basicly allow the players the oportunity to still use the ability (according to the FR:Underdark book about faerzress it only requires a successful Int Check DC 20 or a Spellcraft check DC 35 to not go off course and a DC 25 spellcraft check for other infallible forms of teleportation).
This dosent seem overly difficult and still allows them to make the choice of what they want to do for better or for worse. If this effect was in place I had immagined that it would have been caused as a side effect of the destruction of Thanaclan in the first savage tide and that as a result the monsters would be unaffected by this as its connection to the abyss and the prince of demons allows them to function normally. Maybe thats not fair to the PC's but its only for a handful of adventures till they head into the abyss.I had also thought that this might encourage the PC's to want to make sure Farshore succeded as a trade route to the mainland, and thus as a side effect be able to gain that precious item they desired so badly.
One of the things that I always thought was weird in regards to magical transportation in D&D was, why arent there gates directly linking everything. Im mean should Greyhawk city be the hub of these gates and then link to the rest of the Flaness? Why would you not want to establish a gate from Sasserine to Farshore in order to make your exotic trade route more profitable?
In the end I will allow the PC's their teleport spells as is.Thanks for giving your opinion on this. I may have had a player mutiny and no DM wants that.
Ive been considering the idea of placing a restriction on teleportation magic (specifically on teleport and Grt. teleport). Something similar to how faerzress works in the underdark of the FR. My reason to do this stems from the way that some of the adventures imply that the PC's should travel and explore from place to place either on foot or with the Sea Wyvern, but mainly from the fact that I really hate the idead of just grt. teleporting to Sasserine (Or where ever) so the PC's can buy and sell stuff. I was already planning on adjusting treasure but I know my player's are going to want to buy certain things and that this will eventually require them to do this. This is basiclly what happened in our SCAP and while I was just a player in that campaign it still drove me nuts! I guess long story short what do you folks think. Am I just being a sore sport or what.
be greatful you dont have a crafter that just creates what magic items they need.
...even fancier means of travel are certainly possible - one druid (gnome, with the elemental companion feature from complete Mage ) uses an air elemental to carry him as a flying, tireless steed... at a speed of flying 90', Sasserine is only a single day's flight away....
Really?
I had thought that Sasserine was a 1000 miles from the Isle of Dread.
Looking at overland movement I see that one can go 24 miles if their movement is 30. Figure Three times 24 is 72 miles if ones movement is 90. However that only counts for 8 hours. Call it 216 miles if you don't stop at all (though I would think the rider at least would need to stop). Thats about 5 days to cover 1000 miles (of course I might have my distance between Sasserine and the Isle of Dread wrong).
I think you're right, my calculations have Sasserine at just under 1800 from farshore(as the crow flies), that's exactly 2 teleports at 9th level.
I had thought that Sasserine was a 1000 miles from the Isle of Dread.
So even assuming the rider does not have to get off (doubtful) your talking about at least a week each way.
I just thought I would weigh in here with some observations.
1) Let your players have teleporation. It is a cool part of the game and makes the PCs be the heroes they are. I think what gets missed sometimes is that the rules don't really matter (per se) as long as everyone is having fun. If at the end of the night, everyone says "I haven't laughed so hard" or "that was a blast" then it was a successful night of D&D.
2) This was in a way earlier and now buried thread, but I believe James pointed out that they (the writers & Dungeon staff) specifically timed the ocean voyage adventure to be before Teleporting was an option and specifically made the distance long enough that a wizard would have to use 2 teleports to get back to Sasserine.
3) By the time a wizard would be high enough level to cast 7th level spells (for greater teleportion), they will be starting City of Broken Idols. By that point, they should have already wandered all over the island. But unless your Wizard is telling you that they are memorizing every location they walk past (what an agonizing trip that would be), most of the teleporting will be "viewed once" or "seen casually" which might still get you there with a 12%-25% chance to teleport into the middle of herd? pride? death-mual? of TRexs or worse. You do not want to be off target on the Isle of Dread.
anyway, just my 2 coppers
I did not remove teleportation but we did change it so you can only teleport to an outside location. We did this to limit the "scry and teleport" tactics that were being used during our sessions. Do you think this will change things too much?
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Good points everyone.
Secondly the treasure aspect peaves me the most. Should the players have treasure? Yes! Should they get every last item that they desire...in my opinion no.
If this is how you want to play (it's pretty much how I play), maybe the problem isn't the availability of teleport, it's the availability of magic items for sale. If magic items are really special things in your campaign and there isn't a Costco full of potions and scrolls in Sasserine, then the option to teleport back there isn't such a problem. We've been conditioned over the years (especially by computer games) that there is rapid, easy conversion of GP into magic items and back, but it doesn't have to be that way. IMHO, it detracts from the wonder of "wondrous items".
This was covered some in another thread; Mr. Jacobs pointed out that STAP is going to be even tougher in a low-magic campaign, but you can probably find the balance.
Anyway, it's your world, have fun with it.
Tom
Been stewing on this one for a while. I even tried to figure how a Farshore trade route may go (my current party will likely want to make Farshore into a Sasserine) A midway isle would have to have a fort/tower/base that wizards can become familiar with (side adventure!). And then I thought, why not have the Sea Wyvern or other platform parked in the middle and become familiar with its hold/deck? Then of course I came up with an elaborate scheme to use all the daily spells on stone shape to create a pinnacle in the middle of the ocean and hire the dragon turtle... *chuckle* it was way too elaborate.
I forget just how much one can carry, but bringing all those trade goods would limit what personal gear one could bring (or at least make it expensive for non-wizard PCs.) I also figure a wizard who joined these shipping lanes from Sasserine would make a good replacement PC if it became necessary.
Being off by just a little bit though means an awful lot of swimming so restricting/increasing the miss percentage might mellow some things for the OP (and be fun too!).
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Thomas Austin makes the key point here really. Your problem isn't really the use of teleport, per se, it's the wide availability of specific magic items.
Just say "No, the merchant doesn't have a +3 greatsword of flaming burst, nor does he have a +2 chain shirt of calling for sale either. He could special order one, but it would take 2 weeks and double standard cost".
Obviously, you don't want to overdo the limitations, because people should be able to get SOMETHING useful with their hard-earned gold, but honestly, a fair amount of that is totally believable anyway. Do you really think Sasserine has one of every conceivable magic item for sale? Obviously, they're likely to have many of the basics, and clearly stuff that applies to water or sailing and such more than most other places (You should be able to find a potion of breathe water pretty easily), but if somebody is looking for something specific, and you don't want them to have it, don't let them have it. Or, as I said above, make them pay more and wait longer, which they are often unlikely to do.
If you do that, then teleport won't be an issue, particularly considering all it's limitations and other issues. It's even more dangerous in this AP, who wants to accidentally show up 3 miles out to sea, and have to swim all the way back to port with all that gear and loot they were about to sell/trade?
So even assuming the rider does not have to get off (doubtful) your talking about at least a week each way.I think you're right, my calculations have Sasserine at just under 1800 from farshore(as the crow flies), that's exactly 2 teleports at 9th level.
I had thought that Sasserine was a 1000 miles from the Isle of Dread.
Yeah, I miscalculated ( a bit).
let me explain :
"Air elemental, large" has a 90' (fly) speed equaling 9 miles an hour, with a tireless elemental flying 24 hours easily - 216 miles / day ---> roughly 4,5 days for 1000 miles straight distance , which seems acceptable.
Elementals do not sleep or breath, hence they can operate/travel around the clock. Since they do not sleep, they do not actually have "sleep cycles" and hence should be able to "hustle" indefinitely ... which would effectively double their actual movement, cutting travel time down to like 2,2 days ? Of course, your GM's mileage on this may vary.
Said druid is also prone to use the "Cloud Wings" ( lasting 1 hour/level, necessitating the casting of it every 9+ hours.... a cheap 2nd level spell.... ) spell on his air-elemental, increasing its speed from 90' --> 120'... shaving another 30% off travel time.
Which would make the entire trip take either app. 1,5 days or 3 days, depending on the GM allowing the elemental (who doesn't have a metabolism in the first place, does not sleep anyway and is pretty much as insubstantial as things come ) to "hustle" or not.
Oh, never forget "Wind at the Back" - which doubles overland travel speed, lasting 12 hours.... so now we have an air elemental "cruising" at 24 mph, or 48 mph, with the expenditure of 3x2nd level and 2x4th level spells... per day !
24 hours at 48 miles = 1076 miles.... in one day, as the crow flies.
What's the inflight movie again ?
Even funnier with a small sized gnome druid (other campaign, same principle ) who took "Dragon Cohort" and had a young copper dragon as his companion/cohort...... fly 150' + 30' ("cloud wings") x2 ("Wind at the Back" ) ) 36 mph without even hustling, 72 mph at 'hustling' speed. required level was 12 though. Then again, he also had an item adding an "enhancement" type bonus to flying speed as well, and had some "lesser restorations" loaded to combat eventual fatigue.
Remember also that teleport can mess up. If you're off target teleporting to Renkrue from Farshore... your party's gonna end up in the ocean or on some unknown island. An island that might have some sort of freaky black smoke monster or a bunch of underground hatches?
I had this happen. My party tried to teleport to Golismorga and rolled "similar area".
It hurt all our brains.
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The way treasure in d&d works does bother me and it is somthing I intend to change a little.Currently Im running a campaign set in Istivin, so I plan on trying out some stuff and see how it works.
My other point was to try and have the players discover and really explore the Isle, as opposed to just zipping from place to place.
Its not that I want to limit the players or their fun,but by placing certain restrictions on what they can or cannot do because of loop holes or imperfections in the rules you can help ensure that things ARE fun.
Basiclly my group tends to do things so efficiantly that the game seems less like a fantasy game and more of an economics excercise. I guess if everyone is having fun thats cool, but that doesnt mean that thngs couldnt be made more fun.
The idea behind the magical effect was to basically allow the players to use teleport if they wanted to but beware of the consequences of that action.I also thought that it would add to the hostile,alien and remote feeling of isolation that the Isle evokes.
I feel like the Isle is like some primal world set apart from the rest of the Flaness, like some kind of Hyperborian forgotton valley from a Conan story or a Lovecraftian novel. Its my opinion that a place like the Isle of Dread needs to be more than just another adventuring site, it needs to feel diffrent. Like it WAS anoher world or even a diffrent plane if that helps.
maybe Im just weird though....