Does Constrict count as an attack?

[Vratix]

Now, 9 times in 10, I don't think it makes a difference one way or the other. But, say you're a grappling rogue with constrict and a pinned opponent: do you get to apply your Sneak Attack twice (once from the maintain for damage and then additionally for the constrict attack)? Or is it just once from the maintain for damage and then the constrict damage is added on to the total.

Constrict (Ex) wrote:

*A creature with this special attack can crush an opponent, dealing bludgeoning damage, when it makes a successful grapple check (in addition to any other effects caused by a successful check, including additional damage). The amount of damage is given in the creature's entry and is typically equal to the amount of damage caused by the creature's melee attack.

I had always assumed that constrict was merely extra damage that is applied whilst grappling thanks to the "extraordinary ability" to squeeze something really hard. However, an argument could be made that since it says it's a "special attack" it isn't merely extra damage, it's a free attack.

What do you think?

[Dave Justus]

I'm pretty sure you can't get sneak attack damage without making an attack roll. Since constrict is a rider on another action, extra damage as you put it, it doesn't qualify for sneak attack.

[Claxon]

I concur with Dave Justus, no attack roll, no precision damage (including Sneak Attack).

[Scott Wilhelm]

Claxon wrote:

I concur with Dave Justus, no attack roll, no precision damage (including Sneak Attack).

As do I. Constrict is bonus damage to a Grapple, not a separate attack of its own.

Constrict would activate Sneak Attack damage under certain circumstances. For instance, with the action that Initiates the Grapple, normally you would do no damage, so you would normally do no Sneak Attack either. But with Constrict, you do inflict damage along with the the Initiate Grapple Action, so you would also inflict Sneak Attack damage.

Most Grapplers would not inflict damage when attempting to Pin their opponents, and so would not do Sneak Attack Damage, but with Constrict, you do inflict damage, and so also could inflict Sneak Attack Damage.

I'm not 100% certain that Grapple attacks that do no damage do not activate Sneak Attack, but I am sure that if you have Constrict, all successful Grapple attacks do damage and surely can activate Sneak Attack.

[Vratix]

Thanks for the input. This is all pretty much how I expected it to be interpreted, except this:

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

For instance, with the action that Initiates the Grapple, normally you would do no damage, so you would normally do no Sneak Attack either. But with Constrict, you do inflict damage along with the the Initiate Grapple Action, so you would also inflict Sneak Attack damage.

...
I'm not 100% certain that Grapple attacks that do no damage do not activate Sneak Attack, but I am sure that if you have Constrict, all successful Grapple attacks do damage and surely can activate Sneak Attack.

This might be true for a Strangler(brawler), but probably not for any other class with sneak attack. Being grappled doesn't automatically grant sneak attack iirc.

[Majuba]

Constrict isn't an attack, so I don't see that you would get Sneak Attack. It does have a separate damage roll, so gets power attack, inspire courage, etc. I didn't see it at first, but yes, maintaining a grapple counts as an attack for sneak attack. I don't know that you could add the damage to constrict though - you'd have to use the 'deal damage' option.

[Crimeo]

Yes it is an attack

Quote:

Attacks: Some spell descriptions refer to attacking. All offensive combat actions, even those that don't damage opponents, are considered attacks. Attempts to channel energy count as attacks if it would harm any creatures in the area. All spells that opponents resist with saving throws, that deal damage, or that otherwise harm or hamper subjects are attacks. Spells that summon monsters or other allies are not attacks because the spells themselves don't harm anyone.

It's in a very odd place in the rulebook, but it's there. Constrict is an offensive combat action, so it is an attack (it doing damage isn't even necessary -- it's just gravy!)

Whether or not it is eligible for sneak attack is a whole other can of worms with several other considerations though than just being an attack, which I don't care to get into one way or the other on this.

[Byakko]

This is a revisit of the "can you sneak attack with an attack which doesn't have an attack roll, such as a spell?" question... which never received an official answer.

Thus, while the rules not clear at all, you'll probably find that most GMs will require an attack roll for sneak attack, smite evil, etc, to function.

[Vratix]

Byakko wrote:

This is a revisit of the "can you sneak attack with an attack which doesn't have an attack roll, such as a spell?" question... which never received an official answer.

Thus, while the rules not clear at all, you'll probably find that most GMs will require an attack roll for sneak attack, smite evil, etc, to function.

It sort of is, except that a grapple check is definitely an attack and constrict is inherently tied to that attack roll. As has been noted, functionally, constrict simply adds a damage roll to the grapple check. However, Constrict is specifically called out as an attack in its description and (though the roll is technically for the grapple attack) it does require you to pass an attack roll to get the damage, differentiating it from the other argument. Aside note: in my games I would certainly rule against it being an attack in and of itself (but I've never felt particularly beholden to rules that make no sense, I'm just trying to figure out the actual rule behind it right now).

[Claxon]

Do keep in mind that you can make an attack with a weapon as part of a successful grapple check (though it automatically hits if your grapple check is successful I think) which could possibly be deserving of a sneak attack damage, assuming the target was flat-footed, flanked, or otherwise vulnerable to sneak attack.

Hmmm....I have to think on this a bit more.

[Scott Wilhelm]

Vratix wrote:

Thanks for the input. This is all pretty much how I expected it to be interpreted, except this:

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

For instance, with the action that Initiates the Grapple, normally you would do no damage, so you would normally do no Sneak Attack either. But with Constrict, you do inflict damage along with the the Initiate Grapple Action, so you would also inflict Sneak Attack damage.

...
I'm not 100% certain that Grapple attacks that do no damage do not activate Sneak Attack, but I am sure that if you have Constrict, all successful Grapple attacks do damage and surely can activate Sneak Attack.

This might be true for a Strangler(brawler), but probably not for any other class with sneak attack. Being grappled doesn't automatically grant sneak attack iirc.

Right, you'd have to be Grappling a Flat Footed or Flanked or something opponent, at least until you achieved a Pin.

[Scott Wilhelm]

Vratix wrote:

Byakko wrote:

This is a revisit of the "can you sneak attack with an attack which doesn't have an attack roll, such as a spell?" question... which never received an official answer.

Thus, while the rules not clear at all, you'll probably find that most GMs will require an attack roll for sneak attack, smite evil, etc, to function.

It sort of is, except that a grapple check is definitely an attack and constrict is inherently tied to that attack roll. As has been noted, functionally, constrict simply adds a damage roll to the grapple check. However, Constrict is specifically called out as an attack in its description and (though the roll is technically for the grapple attack) it does require you to pass an attack roll to get the damage, differentiating it from the other argument. Aside note: in my games I would certainly rule against it being an attack in and of itself (but I've never felt particularly beholden to rules that make no sense, I'm just trying to figure out the actual rule behind it right now).

Yeah, Constrict isn't an attack, but Grapple is.

[Gauss]

Also agree, Constrict is a rider effect, it is not an attack itself. It isn't even an action so does not qualify as an 'offensive action'.