I posted this on ENWorld, but its buried in a 22-page thread, so I wanted to post it here to get other people's reactions.
Looking at the effect on Paizo's products, the cancellation of Dragon and Dungeon looks like a big challenge, but not without potential. Dragon and Dungeon were tried and true products, but the WotC license also prevented incorporating some (mostly 3rd party) material. They now can start bringing in all sorts of cool things, like monsters from the Tome of Horrors, or 3rd party prestige classes, or ties to 3rd party campaign settings. In fact, if Paizo can provide a medium to put all of the great 3rd party material to use on a regular, recurring basis, it may be that the 3rd party market will improve and flourish.
In fact, I might even go a little further and say that Paizo could improve their chances of success by incorporating more of the 3rd party material that is already somewhat established. Has this been talked about at all? Anyone else have similar thoughts?
The problem here is that I have yet to see third party products that I think do a good job of balancing things. WotC's stuff may be dry and boring but I do feel it is more balanced than what we get out of other publishers. That said, I do trust the Paizo folks to use it well.
As a DM though, I hate telling my players "you can only use this, this and this from this book, and from this book over here..." or "Yeah, I know he is using a spell from the book I said you couldn't but it was the one spell in there that was balanced!"
Anyway... I need to be convinced a bit more before I see the inclusion of third party stuff as a good thing. Perhaps a necessary thing... but I don't know about good yet. However, I have enough faith that I converted my subscriptions and added subscriptions for Pathfinder.
Sean Mahoney
Excuse my ignorance for I have only been in RPGs for about a year but what is third party?
Unfortunately they also lost their ability to publish material related to FR, Eberron, Planescape, Greyhawk and all the other WotC properties. That's a much larger penalty than the minor bonus from being able to publish some tidbit from an obscure third party publisher.
I'm really looking forward to meeting this new guy, Pathfinder, but such hope for the future is so emotionally seperate from the loss of my two friends, Dungeon and Dragon. And truth be told... Dungeon and Dragon under Paizo, whose particular editorial vision brought me back to the game.
I'm sure the OGL thing will be liberating in some miniscule way... but being something of an idiot loyalist I already own all the WotC books and the myriad options and monsters available therein. Now I'm going to go have to buy a bunch of books I never would have considered buying? So now there is no according to Hoyle official D&D... it's a splintered market.
This doesn't feel like a win. It feels like a loss. Switching my loyalties to Paizo is going to murder my wallet, back up, and murder it again. But whatever. I hated that wallet anyway.
I have to admit that I'm feeling really sad about this, in that sort of "last day of school"/"end of an era" kind of way. Even though I can see that this transition should have some incredibly positive results, it's hard right now to feel good about it.
However, when I make myself step back and take a look, I can see the potential benefits. It was Dungeon Magazine's adventure paths that got me subscribing to Dungeon again, and my burning desire to run Age of Worms (so my husband could experience the cool adventures I'd been reading) that got me to recruit a bunch of NEW players at my FLGS and start a group. The material that Paizo produces has generated a lot of excitement for this hobby, and I trust the Paizo folks to create cool stuff that continues to grow the hobby.
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I posted this in another thread too...but I think it bears repeating.
With Paizo not being tied to WoTC, Paizo now gets to call all the shots; it sounds like they're planning on their own campaign world (which I'm sure will be stellar) and they get to contribute another flavour of D&D to the world. From what I have seen from them, I'm kinda feeling like it's a relief that Erik and James et al don't have to answer to a brand manager who is more concerned about what his boss will say than to what would make a good product. Now, I'm not saying that business practices and marketing be damned-just that with one less level of red-tape, Paizo can produce the product they want to see and create something fundamentally their own flavour.
I look upon this move by WoTC as unfortunate but might overall be a boon to the rest of us.
Excuse my ignorance for I have only been in RPGs for about a year but what is third party?
Third-party refers to companies that produced products under the Open Gaming License. Some examples are: Green Ronin, Goodman Games, White Wolf, Necromancer Games, Mongoose Games, Bastion Press, etc.
I'll get to "thinking positively" one day.
Right now, I'm in full bore snarky mode.
I want my magazines back, and I'll fight to get them.
We might be marching on Seattle. More to come, Mordechai.
Thinking Positive...
Well Paizo, you did manage to disassociate yourselves from those god-awful movies called Dungeons & Dragons! Lol!!
Ultradan
Thinking Positive...
Well Paizo, you did manage to disassociate yourselves from those god-awful movies called Dungeons & Dragons! Lol!!
Ultradan
And the heartless bastards at WotC!
We might be marching on Seattle. More to come, Mordechai.I'll get to "thinking positively" one day.
Right now, I'm in full bore snarky mode.
I want my magazines back, and I'll fight to get them.
ROAD TRIP! I'll handle the soda and twinkies. Someone else has to pay for gas.
Forgive me for ignorance of exactly what copyright laws etc cover, but is there anything stopping Paizo from producing their own D&D magazine now that Wizards of the Coast has cut them loose?
They have permission to make D&D material don't they? So could they make a new magazine with a new name?