How would you handle a character who doesn’t want to use any magic items in a game where the rest of the characters are normally equipped or maybe a little above on magic items? Would you let the player tough it out or would you give him something to make up for the lack of magic items? What would be given to make up for the lack of magic items?
Fizz
Doesn't matter if he has magic items.
The currency of the game is gold. Whatever you can spend your gold on is a worthy substitute.
Strongholds, vehicles, kick-ass animal or monstrous companions, hired squires. There are a lot of possibilities.
Have fun!
Robert Head's suggestions are good.
Also you could give that playe extra feats and ability boosts and mabye have them gain some kind of special abilities that way they stay around the power level of the rest of the party.
Doesn't matter if he has magic items.
The currency of the game is gold. Whatever you can spend your gold on is a worthy substitute.
Strongholds, vehicles, kick-ass animal or monstrous companions, hired squires. There are a lot of possibilities.
Have fun!
True but let assume one cool mount just to be realist and simple, and no srongholds or vechicles. We usually don't have a fleet of ships or a chain of castles.
Fizz
One solution would be the Vow of Poverty from the Book of Exalted Deeds. iirc it was written specifically for this exact reason. It basically gives the beneifts of equivalent level magic items, as well as a few bonus feats.
It is especially powerful for druids and Monks, but probabaly a little under powered for everyone else. (Compared to the loot they would have at that level, but still way better than nothing)
Just be aware that there are VERY strict regulations about what you can and can't have in the way of items (that is ANY items, not just magic, which are obviously completely out). I think by RAW a wizards spells book and a clerics holy symbol both violate the vow. Of course, feel free to chane that, it's your game after all.
One other option, one that I have been thinking about myself actually, would be for the player to play an Iron Heroes character alongside the normal characters. Just remove the iron heroes healing options, and you should be right to go. As a benefit of this option, when you other players see how cool the iron heroes character is without any gear, hopefully they all want to play an Iron Heroes game next.
I don't want to state the obvious here, but doesn't the Vow of Poverty in the Book of Exalted deeds give rules for PCs that refuse to use magic items? It gives them extra bonuses and stuff.
Yep, they do. You could also rule that said player can wield specially crafted gear that isn't 'magical' but still has some bonusses to his skills, abilities and attacks.
If he doesn't want that, you'll probably have to let him tough it out, since that's obviously what he wants then...
I'd let him tough it out.
A) Nobody's forcing him to forgo magic items. He's doing this entirely on his own, and he'll either find other interesting things to spend his gold on all his own, or he'll find out it's too hard and give in to the temptation of magic items all on his own.
B) The player likely has a concept in mind that he wants to see through. Maybe it's extra challenge. Maybe it's some half-baked idea that just has to see the light of day. Either way, a magic item by any other name is still a magic item, so don't cheapen his experience by trying to slip in non-magic items that do the same as their magical counterparts.
C) The character can, honestly, remain effective in combat if the spellcasters are willing to buff him with a few spells. At lower levels this will be more problematic because spells are precious and the party may not want to support his choice to forgo magic items. At higher levels, the slots needed for things like 'magic weapon' and 'align weapon' or some of the special material transmutation spells are a little easier to come by. Besides... what else is the 15th level wizard/cleric going to spend that 1st level slot on? Magic missile? Bless? Pff. And that assumes he's not a spellcaster himself. If he is... who needs items? He /is/ magic.
D) /Almost/ regardless of class, with a good range of books for him to select from, a careful feat selection can give the character the boost he needs. If you don't allow a lot of books, then maybe relaxing your restrictions for him wouldn't be such a bad idea.
With that said; you don't have to go easy on him. There's no reason you can't throw creatures with damage reduction at the party, or pit the party against any encounter you would normally use. Again, he made his bed, so let him lie in it. Just don't go salting it with extra caltrops to punish him.
You could create mechanism to turn magic item wealth into feats, hit points, skill points, hero points, BAB bonuses, or other special abilities.
for myself I would allow that provided there was a reasonable backstory and the palyer understood that by going outside the mechanic of game as designed he was probably going to be a little underpowered - but I wouldn't want to penalize him for trying to play a characer instead of playing gear.
I like rituals to enchant characters.
I also like the donation/gifting/destruction of magic items if it is in character - and offset the loss with role playing xp bonuses.
I would sorta let him tuff it out; meaning if this person didnt want to have any affiliation with magic and perhaps didn't want to have any affiliation with any dieties, then I would create some unbeliever feats or traits or something, there has been stuff about this in the game over the years; I would work with the player and consider their background and take a class that gives magic ablilities like the non casting paladin version and change the abilities to cause magic dampening effects; dampening spells and any magic used against him; this would be like a vow perhaps - vow of the mundane; perhaps on raw disbelief or something. I have created a magic item in my game that mages can use to destroy magic in an area whereas magic no longer works in that spot ever again; so is a two edged sword for them; they draw out the power, but adventually will have results; perhaps your player comes from an area where they dont have magic; dont believe in magic; or are like the Bloodguard in the Thomas Covenent series; have the strongest magic of all; they just don't use it in anything but sealing pacts and vows and such and consider most who use magic to be weak and needing a crutch; this kind of person I would make a class that gained magic resistance and perhaps extra ablility characteric increases.
Though I dont know your game or the character in question; I have some specific ideas that you might use along the lines of the vow of poverty but making appropriate changes vs magic.
I agree with all the "Let him tough it out" folks. If that's his character concept, let him play it and reap the rewards/consequences. If it works well, the character will be memorable. If it fails, the character will serve as a lesson. Either way, you win.
Sure you can do that; you might be able to have fun with it; was just trying to suggest leveling the playing field by offering options as after all; you want people to want to play their characters and feel special and needed and stuff.
Sure you can do that; you might be able to have fun with it; was just trying to suggest leveling the playing field by offering options as after all; you want people to want to play their characters and feel special and needed and stuff.
I agree with you Vale. He does have a concept, and he doesn't mind rolling in gold. I thik he feels like magic just doesn't fit his pc. He's a barbarian with a good story so I'm ok by it. I also think he's just tired of magic items. Anyway, I don't think him or anyone in our group cares about exalted feats. I thought about the vow of poverty, but CN pc...money...exaltedness...and some of the abilities are a problem so I was just wondering what if anything could balance the lack of magic items out.
Fizz
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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You can balance things a little without resorting to compensatory feats and abilities:
Every character should have a chance to shine. If there's never any ranged combat, the bow-meisters feel useless. The simplest answer is to put in ranged combat, rather than give the archers special feats to make them useful in hand-to-hand melees.
Likewise, give the party some encounters where the magic-shunning character comes into her own. Anti-magic fields, rust monsters, disenchanters, and so forth.
I'd also place a really cool magic item, tailor-made for the character, in an upcoming encounter, but I'm just mean like that.
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You could sit down with him, and right up a prestige class. Keep his abilities in line by giving him some class features that would compensate for his "weakness" but make the restrictions such that he is really commiting himself to this path.
Some suggestions:
advantages:
SR
Fast Healing
Dodge
Ignore DR
Attribute bonuses
Lots of hit points
disadvantages:
losing access to magic items
losing access to arcane magic (ie the ability to benefit from)
losing access to divine magic
basically, spreading Vow of Poverty over 5-10 levels without the vow or the poverty...
I remember the Barbarian class in 1st Ed. Unearthed Arcana(?), the original barabrian, had an inherent distrust of magic and could only use certain types of items (armour, weapons and wondrous items) as they advanced in level. Every other magic item was out of bounds to them or they lost their Barbarian abilities. So you're saying your player is going old school barbarian...
Don't know what I'm saying here, just pointing something out. Maybe you could look up the old school stuff and show your player? He might be interested in having his PC slowly overcoming his superstition in areas that are useful to him. Even Conan takes the atlantean sword, and he hates magic...
Let him tough it out. I have a player whose character does the same thing for RP reasons. If he can give a valid reason for it, then the guy deserves bonus XP for the RP but nothing else. If not--well then he's screwed, isn't he?
I run a lot of "low magic" campaigns and I find the only real problem arises from Damage Reduction...I hate Damage Reduction...its so common now...every frikkin monster gets it almost.
Really if you want just house rule it that creatures with damage reduction get some more hit points can still be felled by normal attacks. Of course legendary monsters (like dragons) should still get their DR...but not everybody else and their grandma.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Two suggestions:
1. Action points. Consider adding in the ability to allow them to be used to penetrate DR.
2. There is a prestige class in masters of the wild that does not use magic items and gains a bonus for their destruction. You may consider giving the player that ability (though I must admit, this prestige class leads to a character that hates magic but collects magic items to destroy them as needed).
Two suggestions:
1. Action points. Consider adding in the ability to allow them to be used to penetrate DR.
2. There is a prestige class in masters of the wild that does not use magic items and gains a bonus for their destruction. You may consider giving the player that ability (though I must admit, this prestige class leads to a character that hates magic but collects magic items to destroy them as needed).
The PRC from Masters of the Wild is called the Forsaker I believe.
You can balance things a little without resorting to compensatory feats and abilities:
Every character should have a chance to shine. If there's never any ranged combat, the bow-meisters feel useless. The simplest answer is to put in ranged combat, rather than give the archers special feats to make them useful in hand-to-hand melees.
Likewise, give the party some encounters where the magic-shunning character comes into her own. Anti-magic fields, rust monsters, disenchanters, and so forth.
I'd also place a really cool magic item, tailor-made for the character, in an upcoming encounter, but I'm just mean like that.
Another encounter tailor-made for a characters that shuns magical gear:
Escaping after being captured. If the PCs ever get captured/kidnapped/arrested, the PC that was built around not having toys will shine compared to someone that needs them.