I'm just skimming through the Savage Tide boards, and I'm wondering what experiences people have had with converting APs to a specific setting?
Is it worth it?
Basically, is it worth the time and effort to convert the AP over from the default Greyhawk to FR or Eberron?
I do like both settings, have lots of their sourcebooks, have played and DM'd in them, etc... but I don't personally want to play exclusively in only 1 specific setting. And since the APs are designed to take you from 1 to 20+, is there really a need to convert them over to another setting?
Its not like I'm planning on tossing in Chimes at Midnight or a trip to Korranberg if I run STAP in Eberron. Or having the party jaunt off to the Moonshaes or Cormyr as a sidequest if I ran it in FR.
From reading through STAP to date, and playing through AoW, I have to say that I don't really think anything has to be added, if anything, there is enough encounters that the PCs could MISS encounters and still hit the reccomended levels. And if by chance anything did have to be added, there are usually plenty of hooks in the backdrops, etc to run a quick sidequest without having to divert from the base material.
Therefore if the AP is a complete campaign as advertised (and I found AoW was, and STAP is shaping up that way as well), what do you really gain by converting it to your favorite setting?
Is the time and effort to convert the AP over worth the benefit of playing in your favorite setting?
If you do convert the AP, how much time do you figure it added to your prep for each adventure? How much did you change?
*I'm not against converting adventures in general, I've done it in the past to make something fit the current campaign world. But that was to make a specific adventure fit a campaign setting for a game already in progress, not converting over an entire self-contained campaign to another setting.
Keep in mind I haven't actually done any work converting Savage Tide to the Realms, but I have done some work converting the Age of Worms to the setting. For me, the advantage is that if the PCs do something unexpected, and wander off from Daggerford (Diamond Lake) to Waterdeep (The Free City) early, or something of that nature, I have some ideas on what NPCs to throw at them, what hooks to use to get them back on track, etc.
On top of that, while I like the Age of Worms and the storyline, adventures, etc., its hard to get excited about brand new NPCs without any history and run them with any enthusiasm. But once you tie those NPCs to existing ones or change them into existing NPCs, then you have the added, well, passion of portraying characters that you like and have some kind of background for. I can look up sources for Malchor Harpell to pick up quirks and descriptions of him and his surroundings. Could I do that for Tenser (Manzorian) in the "core" setting? Yes, but then you are talking about the same amount of work for running the adventure in the "core" setting as in the Forgotten Realms.
I don't know if I'm a good person to use to gauge how much time to convert an adventure should take, since I take forever and meander back and forth in my conversions. I work up this conversion because I really liked the path and it caught my attention, not because its what I'm automatically going to run next, and so I work on it between my regular campaign and working up other ideas.
I also worked a bit on converting the Age of Worms for DragonLance, setting it in Taladas during the Age of Mortals just after the War of Souls, and making Kyuss the son of Morgion that was imprisoned in the Age of Dreams before he could become a true god. A lot of the work goes into setting up the back ground and the NPC substitutions.
All of this aside, the Age of Worms seems easier to convert for "non standard" campaigns than the Savage Tide is. To me its going to take some major contortions to explain the Abyss and Demogorgon in Eberron, and if you have "Eberron Purist" players, they may not like the work arounds to get the path to run there. On the other hand, its likely to be easier than the Age of Worms to convert to the Realms, given that a lot of it has to do with exploring lost islands and the like. That having been said, I doubt I'll be trying to convert the Savage Tide to DragonLance any time soon, for similar reasons that I'd be hesitant to run it in Eberron.
I GMed the SCAP in the FR, wasn't all that complicated except for finding an initial location. The deities were converted easily enough, some NPCs needed some adaption (although more to my style of campaign than actual necessity, except for some Half-Drows etc. ).
It was actually quite worth it, especially since the "Mystra/Azuth/Velsharoon and others" subpantheon of "Deities of Magic" kept the players on the worng foot about the original priests of Wee Jas far more effectively than the basic set-up.
As for the party wandering off, we agreed beforehand for a strong central motivation for the group, to keep the campaign from meandering, which worked like a charm, at least until replacement PCs had to be brought in to check the wear and tear...
The gain for the group was, that since we had played the FR previously, everybody had a solid feeling about the way the world worked, which groups and pantheons were relevant where and in what strength. Made it much easier for the players to get in character and develop rich, detailed backgrounds which actually affected play and group dynamics. It also made it much easier for the GM/NPCs to play on the players/characters prejudices and the "common take" on some nations and or races .. Thayans, Zhent, Paladins of the Triad... the works. Big advantage to my mind, if the group is interested in social interaction and dynamics , not only gathering xp and hacking apart things.
Same applies to our current campaign of the STAP in the FR.
Convert from GH to something else?!?
Why not just convert your chocolate ice cream to lima beans?! Or spinach. Or beets.
I normally run a realms capaign, but just started running Savage Tide. I'm not going to bother converting it. For the most part they will be on the isle of dread, the Abyss or Sasserine. What's the point in doing any converstion.
I normally run a realms capaign, but just started running Savage Tide. I'm not going to bother converting it. For the most part they will be on the isle of dread, the Abyss or Sasserine. What's the point in doing any converstion.
While I understand your point, I look at the Savage Tide as an excellent chance to explore playing characters from cultures not normally played in Realms campaigns. For example, play a Halruaan wizard or Dambrathi half-drow or Tashalan tainted one or Lapaliiyan civic cleric or Knight of the Flying Hunt. These are all part of the Realms, yet most campaigns rarely venture this far south.
--Eric
I'm pretty crazy about playing the Realms so I'm working on converting for my campaign. I'd say that the only really big change is the journey from Tashluta (Sasserine) to the Isle of Dread.
I just put together a map of the Sea Wyvern's journey to the Isle of Dread with the conversioned encounters on it. If anyone wants to use this map, go for it. Here is a link.
EDIT: Updated the map to include scale.
we're running STAP in eberron and it was no trouble it convert it over adding new flavor to any game is all in the dm's and players court .its your game u run it how u like anyway so its no big deal to convert to someworld u have a better feel for
The day after tomorrow I'm getting together with my six players to create characters for an Eberron Savage Tide campaign - so yes, I think it's worthwhile.
I want to run a game in Eberron; I want to run the Savage Tide adventure path; I think that the exotic, pulpy elements of the adventure path mesh well with Eberron, and its planar elements mesh well with the parts of Eberron in which I'm most interested.
I have players who are specifically interested because I'm setting this game in Eberron.
Like KnightErrantJr, I like the fact that I know the setting well enough to account for side-trips and diversions, and to help my players create characters which feel like they come from Eberron as opposed to Generic D&D Land.
While this is indeed a complete campaign that can and will be run start to finish in many cases, that does not mean that campaigns happen in a vacuum within the gaming group. What I mean by this is that one of the things that players in a game group love to see is references to past experiences and/or past characters. This is much more difficult (though not impossible) when switching worlds.
As an example of this I would point to the celebration at the beginning of the Bullywug Gambit. Players of the Age of Worms and/or the Shackled City campaigns are rewarded with mention of the deeds or later appearances of their characters.
The next thought is that for me, I have found limiting my players choices to be counterproductive to the game. I for one run games in FR because of the wealth of material available... the Players can then choose whatever they wish to play. This can easily go both ways though... I can just as easily (or perhaps even more easily) converted the race, class, or whatever over GH.
Anyway... those are just my thoughts. In summation I don't really think there is any compelling reason to convert unless you feel driven to do so and feel that the time and effort involved (and make no mistake they can be significant) are worth your effort for either your own or your players enjoyment.
Sean Mahoney
Just go with the setting you and your players are most familiar with or the one you want to run most (if you are tired of the one you're familiar with).
Of all the adventure paths, this one is undoubtedly the one that needs the less adaptation anyway, and I think that the conversion notes that are available are very useful, so converting this AP should not be too difficult.
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I converted to the FR, but as far as I can tell it hasn't had a huge effect. The primary reason I did it, in all honesty, is that I own most of the FR supplements and wanted to use them. And it's the CS I'm most familiar and comfortable with.
It has helped in that it is given my players more options with spells and feats and such, and I relate with the FR gods more than the Greyhawk ones. I also throw a few random encounters from Monsters of Faerun and such when I want, and so on.
But as I said, by and large the actual difference in terms of the game play so far has been negligible; our party just finished Bullywug's Gambit last night. Maybe it will feel more "Realmsy" after we get out of Sasserine.
I'm pretty crazy about playing the Realms so I'm working on converting for my campaign. I'd say that the only really big change is the journey from Tashluta (Sasserine) to the Isle of Dread.
I just put together a map of the Sea Wyvern's journey to the Isle of Dread with the conversioned encounters on it. If anyone wants to use this map, go for it. Here is a link.
EDIT: Updated the map to include scale.
This is great. Thanks for doing this.
Have you also put together a table of how many days between each encounter?
--Eric
Oh, THERE it is!
I didn't have a realms map that went that far south - no wonder I couldn't find the IoD!Thanks very much for doing this!
There's a map that goes this far south in the FRCS [3e], but this is a much nicer map.
--Eric
Have you also put together a table of how many days between each encounter?--Eric
Actually I did, but have been out of town so haven't gotten around for posting it. Here it is:
Tashluta to E: 560 miles
E to A: 340 miles
A to D: 260 miles
D to F: 25 miles
F to B: 220 miles
B to C: 210 miles
C to G: 180 miles
G to H: 350 miles
H to Rauthaven: 230 miles
Rauthaven to J: 375 miles
J to K: 810 miles
K to L: 540 miles
L to M: 60 miles
TOTAL: 4160 miles
The numbers are a bit estimatey, but pretty accurate and definitely accurate enough to use. Glad you enjoyed the map :) I made it using the FR Atlas computer program thing + the picture of the IoD from whatever Dungeon magazine + Photoshop.
Convert from GH to something else?!?
Why not just convert your chocolate ice cream to lima beans?! Or spinach. Or beets.
AGREECON1
I hope every AP is set in Greyhawk. The other settings get more than enough love from WotC.
I'm just skimming through the Savage Tide boards, and I'm wondering what experiences people have had with converting APs to a specific setting?
I'm running ST in Eberron with a minimal amount of change. Scarlet Brotherhood are the Inspired. Demogorgon is a Rakshasa Raja. Sasserine is in Q'barra. Isle of Dread is somewhere south of Sarlona.
My worry about setting it in Ebberon is that it doesn't leave an opportunity to explore the setting, which is why I would convert it to begin with.
~Qualidar~
What difference? The STAP goes from level 1 to 20, in the back hinterlands of nowhere. Does it matter what the rest of the world is like? The PCs will likely never set foot in the Free City (or Waterdeep, or Scarn) in any event.
Hi,
When I'll start with a somewhat modified Savage Tide campaign (I hope this summer), it will probably be based in FR, since most of the players have some experience with this setting.
However, I agree that the setting isn't that important. I'll probably make it 'FR-light': mainly using the FR map, the info in the conversion notes (to rename the cities, gods, ...), some FR specific details during character generation, ...
On a side note: I love the affiliations presented in the STAP. Have there been affiliations described for FR specific organisations, such as the Harpers?
Hagor
Hi,
When I'll start with a somewhat modified Savage Tide campaign (I hope this summer), it will probably be based in FR, since most of the players have some experience with this setting.
However, I agree that the setting isn't that important. I'll probably make it 'FR-light': mainly using the FR map, the info in the conversion notes (to rename the cities, gods, ...), some FR specific details during character generation, ...On a side note: I love the affiliations presented in the STAP. Have there been affiliations described for FR specific organisations, such as the Harpers?
Hagor
The conversion notes have new Realms-based affiliations. However, they are targeted at the Chultan peninsula region, so no Harpers. (To date, I've done Rundeen, House Se'Sehen, and the Knights of the Flying Hunt, IIRC.)
--Eric
Actually I did, but have been out of town so haven't gotten around for posting it. Here it is:
Tashluta to E: 560 miles
E to A: 340 miles
A to D: 260 miles
D to F: 25 miles
F to B: 220 miles
B to C: 210 miles
C to G: 180 miles
G to H: 350 miles
H to Rauthaven: 230 miles
Rauthaven to J: 375 miles
J to K: 810 miles
K to L: 540 miles
L to M: 60 miles
TOTAL: 4160 miles
The numbers are a bit estimatey, but pretty accurate and definitely accurate enough to use. Glad you enjoyed the map :) I made it using the FR Atlas computer program thing + the picture of the IoD from whatever Dungeon magazine + Photoshop.
Does anyone think there is an issue with adding 1000 miles to the journey? None come to mind for me (even though Lavinia did tell the party the voyage would be about 3 months) but I just want to be sure. Since Scuttlecove is the next stop (and last one that isn't on another plane IIRC) where would you place it from the Isle of Dread in FR? I am thinking of moving the Isle of Dread so that it's more in the middle of the Great Sea all by itself.
Any thoughts?
edit- I just realized that once they hit open water they will travel 60 miles per day since they won't be anchoring at night so they'll make the journey right at 90 days (assuming no mishaps). I suppose the only other issue would be the teleport distance to get back to civilization once the party has access to that spell. Just thinking out loud here...
All this work you have done is really useful, thanks for sharing! :)
Is it worth it?
In my opinion, it is worth it to convert the adventure path to Eberron, because - while I'll not be diverging from the storyline as written too much - it's the trappings of the world that I care about.
I don't want Tolkienesque "demihumans". I don't want active gods. I want warforged and changelings and shifters. I want dragonmarked characters. I want artificers.
I don't need to change much about the adventures as written to significantly change the feel of the world in which they take place, and that's a worthwhile goal for me.
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I'm also running STAP in Eberron. Each of my players has a Players Guide to Sasserine, so I just made Sasserine the only place in Eberrron where the "old gods" are still worshiped. When the Soverign Host became popular in Sarlona, regilious wars broke out and many people moved to Khorvaire. The Sovergin Host became the dominant religion b/c of the Kingdom of Galifar, but Sasserine was never conquered by Galifar. Sarlona was taken over by the Inspired and all religion was quashed. Sailing the Sea Wyvern into the abyss is going to involve a huge "hole" in the sea that suckes the ship down to Khyber (kind of like sailing off the end of the world). Other than that, not much conversion is needed.