One of my PCs is a psion with Object Reading. This power allows one to examine an object and determine its 1) race, 2) gender, 3) age, 4) how it gained the object, and 5) how it lost the object. And so on, up to 10 previous owners.
1) M lemorian, 30, bought it from a troglodyte, left in Farshore when he was killed
2) M troglodyte, 27, traded with kopru, traded with Vanthus
3) M kopru, 300-ish, given by Bilewretch of Holashner, traded with troglodytes
4) genderless Bilewretch of Holashner, from beyond the realm of time so age is meaningless, given by a skinwalker, gave it to the kopru
5) M skinwalker, 200 or so, given the pearl by aspect of Demogorgon, gave it the Bilewretch of Holashner
6) M aspect of Demogorgon, 5000-ish, took pearl from fiendish oyster, gave it to a skinwalker
7) genderless fiendish oyster, 80, created the pearl, had it taken by aspect of Demogorgon
shouldnt that aspect be either 1000 year old (created and placed there after the trial savage attack), or otherwise some odd 5 billion years..?
<--- ever more grateful that I outlaw psionics in my D&D games. :)
Amen brotha!
shouldnt that aspect be either 1000 year old (created and placed there after the trial savage attack), or otherwise some odd 5 billion years..?
Yeah I pretty much made up all the ages.
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I would probably make some kind of preemptive DM ruling, preventing the ability from working beyond the kopru's posession. Presumably, this ability functions by reading some kind of psychic residue or "fingerprint" left behind on the object.
Surely, if the Bilewretch of Holashner is really "from beyond the realm of time so age is meaningless", then it stands to reason that it might also fail to leave a recognizable psychic fingerprint. Or, perhpas the phychic imprint is so corrupted/evil/chaotic/bizarre that it obliterates any previous imprints. Maybe it's so vile, in fact, that making even this tenuous psychic connection wIth the Bilewretch (or it's imprint) damages/nauseates/knocks unconscious the PC attempting to read the object. It's unlikely that your character has ever encountered a Bilewretch (or anything even remotely resembling one) and thus has no frame of reference to interpret such a bizarre reading.
The advantage of such an approach should be obvious. It still gives the PC some valuable information they didn't know before (the Vanthus-->Troglodyte-->Kopru connection), which in turn leads them directly towards the next stage of the AP, while stopping short of revealing everything (and potentially leading them to the central plateau prematurely).
In addition, the sense of tension it creates is a nice perk. And when your PC's finally confront the Bilewretch, your psionic PC could have a flash of intuition/recognition that this is the same creature he sensed earlier, which should make him appropriately wary.
On a side note, it strikes me that this ability, in the hands of an ornery player, could end up being a huge PITA for the DM. Imagine having to come up with a 10-person chain of possession for every mundane object in your campaign, on the fly.
Player: "I'm using my psionic powers to see who has used this tankard/soupspoon/torch/gold coin!"
DM: Grrrrrrrrrrr...."Okay. Prior to you, the tankard was posessed by Katya, the serving wench, age 23, who loaned it you in order that you might consume it's contents. It was handed to her by Brugar, the barkeep, age 47..."
The troglodyte didn't hand it directly to Vanthus. It was first handed to an expendable member of the crew for verification purposes, in the off-chance the troglodytes were dissatisfied with their slaves and drugs to date and wanted to make off with the whole crew by means of some sort of double-cross.
There were actually several troglodytes that handled the pearl. The trog on duty for getting it from the kopru was almost certainly not the same trog on duty for handing it over to the pirates, and it was likely a third troglodyte who broke open the bile shell to extract the pearl. Since Vanthus came early, when there was only a single pearl ready, they probably weren't exactly rushing the pearl out the door. It probably sat around a while and was handled by a couple other miscellaneous troglodytes.
There were also multiple kopru handling the pearl. At the very least, Ulioth is the only one that can get it from the bilewretch, and Ulioth certainly didn't personally go out to meet some smelly troglodytes for a routine UPS mission. That's the job for the loser kopru at the bottom of the hierarchy, and Ulioth probably rubbed in that kopru's low status by having an underling carry the pearl from the corrupted shrine, since the low kopru doesn't deserve to get missions from Ulioth personally. A similar string of kopru is required to deliver the Pearl to the bilewretch in the first place.
Odds are that the players don't actually care about the names and ages of mooks. Just identify the mooks as such and move on.
<--- ever more grateful that I outlaw psionics in my D&D games. :)
Then you will wish you have done away with simulcralike spells too... few things as fun as having the players create 5 or more copies of the last semi-unbeatable supermonster as allies..
Ie 7 dragothas that tore into that worm...
Iceassassin was at work there. Theres a whole bunch of ways to get faux pas xp too, so 35000 wasnt too bad (paid about half on their own)
One of my PCs is a psion with Object Reading. This power allows one to examine an object and determine its 1) race, 2) gender, 3) age, 4) how it gained the object, and 5) how it lost the object. And so on, up to 10 previous owners.
I think a Chaotic, minor artifact could conceivably foil Object reading, and the manifester would get no information...
-or makes the Psion's head asplode.
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Then you will wish you have done away with simulcralike spells too... few things as fun as having the players create 5 or more copies of the last semi-unbeatable supermonster as allies..
I don't know about those I guess. Simulcralike spells? I thought my group had thrown just about everything in the game at me already, except psionics and incarnum, the two things I don't use.
Psionics are cool, don't be hatin'!
Then you will wish you have done away with simulcralike spells too... few things as fun as having the players create 5 or more copies of the last semi-unbeatable supermonster as allies..
Ie 7 dragothas that tore into that worm...
Mind you, 12 hours of casting per Simulacrum could mean that the Age of Worms descends upon the party before they know what's going on.
But with this in mind, it will definately mean that when the party take down Dragotha, I will be informing them that he is well and truly dusted (and that dust is not adequate as the required component for the spell).
I am quite sure that I would rule that a corrupted, chaotic, evil artifact like a Shadow Pearl would have the potential to do bad things to someone trying to "read" it.
In fact, you might rule that the psion needs to make a Will save (DC 20-25?) or become savage, as if afflicted by a savage tide. Look not too long into the Abyss, or the Abyss will look into you.
I am quite sure that I would rule that a corrupted, chaotic, evil artifact like a Shadow Pearl would have the potential to do bad things to someone trying to "read" it.
I once had my character (a pixie) cast Detect Evil in the Temple of All Consumtption from TOEE. He passed out, awoke marked by Tharizdun, and had to make a wicked DC save anytime he used Detect Evil again. The psion should suffer something similar.
Since Demogorgon is a two-headed demon-prince with two personalities, perhaps the psions mind should split in two and a second minor personality emerge. The personality should be useful but evil, like the Tooth of Azuth (or whaterver that artifact was called). It should also get stronger the closer the PC comes to Demogorgon.
Maybe the second mind has a psionic character class of 1/2 the PCs level, and manifests in any fight against domogorgon or his minions. This should not prevent the PC from taking any actions on his own. Instead, the other personality will launch mental attacks against the party or boost the baddies.
There should be the constant threat that the other mind will take control. Maybe the PC will need to sleep tied-up to prevent betraying the party? And the other mind will probably need to be shielded to prevent direct contact with its master. To end this the PC will have to kill demogorgon, or to maybe he will have to pledge his soul to an equally powerful protector.
As far as useful goes, the alternate personality has a vested interest in keeping the PCs body alive (because it wants to eventually become the dominant personity). Maybe this manifests in a stat boost, a save bonus, an alertness bonus, or some "extra" psychic power with no point cost.
Yeah, you could work with this. And it teaches the player an important lesson about trying to read an artifact.
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Psionics are cool, don't be hatin'!
I don't have a problem with people who use them, they just don't fit into my idea of fantasy roleplay and magic. Incarnum is the same way. The vast majority of my PC's agree with me, at least 6, and those that don't aren't bothered about it much. To each their own.
I am quite sure that I would rule that a corrupted, chaotic, evil artifact like a Shadow Pearl would have the potential to do bad things to someone trying to "read" it.The psion should suffer something similar.
I disagree. I am strongly against punishing character overmuch for using their character abilities. It just comes off as the DM being spiteful.
On the contrary I think this is a great opportunity to foreshadow some of the future of the AP. Instead of presenting a list like the one above (which is a great list), I would describe the sequence of events as visual discriptions moving backwards in time (ala the movie memento). Once the PC gets to a god however, things become screwed up.
I would start with the casting immediately dropping the PC into a long coma and then take the PC out of the room and describe the series of events described above, ending with a close up of the face of a demon lord.
Since this is likely to take place in a fairly safe environment the PC doesn't miss any real gameplay while unconsciouce and is in no danger while being so. If you have a character with appropriate skills give them a chance to shine by working on the coma-like condition.
Anyway, it becomes a great foreshadowing of what they are up against instead of a game breaker this way. I don't think there any actual information given away that ruins any adventures or leads the PCs to the wrong place at the wrong time. In fact if they decide to follow the trail backwards they are on exactly the right track.
Sean Mahoney
Since Demogorgon is a two-headed demon-prince with two personalities, perhaps the psions mind should split in two and a second minor personality emerge. The personality should be useful but evil, like the Tooth of Azuth (or whaterver that artifact was called). It should also get stronger the closer the PC comes to Demogorgon.
Maybe the second mind has a psionic character class of 1/2 the PCs level, and manifests in any fight against domogorgon or his minions. This should not prevent the PC from taking any actions on his own. Instead, the other personality will launch mental attacks against the party or boost the baddies.
There should be the constant threat that the other mind will take control. Maybe the PC will need to sleep tied-up to prevent betraying the party? And the other mind will probably need to be shielded to prevent direct contact with its master. To end this the PC will have to kill demogorgon, or to maybe he will have to pledge his soul to an equally powerful protector.
As far as useful goes, the alternate personality has a vested interest in keeping the PCs body alive (because it wants to eventually become the dominant personity). Maybe this manifests in a stat boost, a save bonus, an alertness bonus, or some "extra" psychic power with no point cost.
Yeah, you could work with this. And it teaches the player an important lesson about trying to read an artifact.
That's just being a jerk. If we assume that the PCs will refuse to kill the affected PC, an evil split personality with psion powers will trivially be able to TPK the entire party even when they are not facing Demogorgon or his minions. Even at half manifester levels, it can unload its power regardless of any restraints the party might attempt, and it has powers flexible enough to bypass any conceivable long-term support magic the party could assemble.
Sleep tied up? Yeah, whatever. Psions can be naked, bound, gagged, manacled, paralyzed, and drained of all strength and dexterity, and they won't be hindered one whit.
Wholly and unreasonably punitive. Let him use the power. Backlash is one thing, but it should be MINOR. Perhaps even just flavor text and role-playing guidance. Better to use the object reading to foreshadow Golismorga's horrors and guide the party to its next destination.
Well, my point wasn't so much about punishing the player for trying to use his powers. In fact, I would want to give away some information, and I think office_ninja's list is a great start. However, I would also want to convey that this is not your grandmother's "object." The Shadow Pearl is condensed chaos and savagery that acts as a vessel for unleashing a wave of madness on the surrounding area. It is a minor artifact, touched by a demon lord, and bears that lord's taint. It is more than just an unholy sword, it is the essence of chaos and madness. Such an object is bad mojo, and should be treated with care and respect. My suggestion (Will save to avoid becoming Savage, success reveals the information) was just one possible way to reflect that in the game.
I don't get the hate.
Psionists get two new powers a level. This means there was some level at which this character invested half of it's psionist flexibility into this power.
Object Reading isn't available to general Psionists. It is only available to those with the Clairsentience specialization. This means this character is focused on information gathering powers, to the detriment or absence of his or her damaging, healing, movement, defensive, buffing, and conjurative powers. It seems very likely that the player is going to enjoy this, otherwise he or she wouldn't have chosen this specialty.
If you, as a DM, can't be happy revealing major plot background information until after it is tactically or strategically useful to the players, I wouldn't be happy as your player. If my character is focused on finding things out, it is the nature of the game that my character is very likely worse at other aspects of the game. It balances out.
The only reason to prevent a player from having a character that figures out what is going on earlier in a plotline than is typical is if you, as a DM, won't have fun in that situation. Think about that; if you're unhappy that your players have figured out they need to see a troglodyte about a shadow pearl within an hour after Vanthus is dead, why are you unhappy? You should be happy that one of your PCs has had an opportunity to move the story along in a cool way. It's not like they "ruined" hours of your work setting up some convoluted-yet-one-dimensional story that didn't hold up under the pressure of rationally acting characters.
And don't tell me that you just don't feel this fits the fantasy theme. Fantasy is strewn with characters using magic or fantastical abilities to find out things before they would 'normally' be able to. Take LotR as an example: Palantiri, Dunedain foresight, the magic throne near the Anduin, Galadriel's pool. What would have been so out of place had Gandalf had the power to hold an object for an hour or so and done an 'Object Reading' on it?
Now, would it have fit with the mythos of LotR had Gandalf been able to do an unobstructed Object Reading on the One Ring? I don't think so, at least not without some nasty or stressful consequences. Shadow pearls, however, are not major artifacts. I would consider some Wisdom damage on a failed Will saving throw after each 10 minutes of Object Reading, but I certainly wouldn't have it impart some sort of permanent damage.
Sorry, I should've specified -- it's a magic item that does the power, and the pearl was already triggered, so it's not really an artifact anymore (or even magic).
I wasn't really complaining about plot spoilers or anything. In this case it was a lot of fun naming increasingly horrific things. The psion using it is an elan who acts like he's 12, so he hasn't really conveyed anything useful to the rest of the party. He just kind of makes occasional references to "the squicky guy from beyond time and sanity" alongside "that one guy with the pants".
Okay, my bad. Apparrently my idea didn't go over so well. All I can say is that my group would appreciate it, and that I have liked similar ideas in the past as a player. This just goes to show that there is a wide range of playing styles supported by the rules; and that is the beauty of D&D.
But in my defense, I try to never punish the PCs. In my view, D&D is a game where the players are supposed to win, but you have to give them just enough set-backs and risk that the victory is satisfying. Too hard is no fun, and too easy gets old fast; the balance is different for everyone. Once you find your group's balance, though, you get campaigns they talk about for years.
It's all good. People are having fun.
Footnote: this same psion found the tooth of Ahazu and instantly pulled out one of his own teeth and replaced it. Didn't identify it, didn't even know if it was magic. He just thought, "Hey, wicked cool tooth!"...*shove*