I was just trying to get a general consensus on how long it took your groups to complete Lifes Bazaar. I am running a group through it and we are on our 3rd session as of today (about 16hrs). I don't really mind because it has given Cauldron a chance to develop in game (they spend a lot of time roleplaying in city). I was thinking about having Jenya start to complain on the length of time it is taking to find the children and threaten to hire the Stormblades...any thoughts or comments...
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I was just trying to get a general consensus on how long it took your groups to complete Lifes Bazaar. I am running a group through it and we are on our 3rd session as of today (about 16hrs). I don't really mind because it has given Cauldron a chance to develop in game (they spend a lot of time roleplaying in city). I was thinking about having Jenya start to complain on the length of time it is taking to find the children and threaten to hire the Stormblades...any thoughts or comments...
It is a big adventure that was designed for a number of sessions, because originally there was no Drakthar's Way. I'd say give them two or three days to delve through Jzadirune, depending on how large and combat-capable your group is, plus another day for the Malachite Fortress, counting the first daya as the first full day they know the location of the entrance. Maybe two days to figure out where the dungeon begins, again depending on how investigation capable your group is. Jenya would probably harp on the "but not for long" part of the divination, before she threatens to replace the PCs. She's already invested the potions in them. If you think they're taking too long, have her demand daily progress reports at the end of each day. Generally, strive to keep the players on task, without being too heavy-handed.
I think it would be unfair for Jenya to start pushing the group. Consider a few things:
1) These kidnappings have been going on for MONTHS and Jenya is suddenly going to flip out because the group of 1st level adventurers hasn't completely solved the mystery in a few days? That doesn't seem likely.
2) Although Jenya offered them a reward, the group is still likely choosing to act for the benefit of Cauldron and thus are essentially volunteers. She hasn't paid them a retainer, they're not her employees. She has offered them some potions as a gesture of good faith and the possibility of a reward as incentive but they have not been "hired" by the church so she really has no say over whether they complete the job or not.
4) Jenya is Lawful Neutral. Unless she imposed a time-limit upon them at the start of their negotiations, it would be rather chaotic of her to suddenly demand that they complete the job within a specified time. If she wants to discuss the issue and re-open negotiations, possibly including a time restriction in exchange for more money, that would be more in line with her alignment. But frankly, even that would not really be in her best interest. She's finally found a group that is actually making SOME progress when everyone else has failed for months to find any clues, and now she wants to impose a time limit on them? That seems unwise.
5) I think you may be setting your expectations too high. Between Jzadirune and the Malachite Hold there are 100 areas for the group to visit. If you have a first level group whose resources are going to run very thin after just a few fights, they're going to need to rest frequently. In game days, my adventuring party has been clearing the place for a little over 1 week. It took them about 5 days to find and rescue the children and they're now clearing out some of the areas they had to skip past in their haste. In terms of meeting time, they're on their 16th meeting (4 hours each). It can take a while for them to get on the right track, narrow down their search to Ghelve's, get the info from him, and finally begin to explore the dungeon itself. Expect this entire campaign to last you a year or two of gaming.
Shannon
Thanks for the inputs....I am a very patient DM but I guess I was getting a little frustrated knowing that there is a secret entrance to the elevator right at the begining and they missed it. As far as Jenya and the church is concerned, you hit it dead on. The PCs have made far more progress then anyone and these incidents HAVE been going on for sometime. Once again thanks for the inputs.
Shoot last question. .. Who do you have do the rezez in town? As of right now I dont have any clerics high enough around to actually do it.
If you're eager to have them find the entrance to the elevator down, keep in mind that they walk right past the secret door in the stairs every single time they enter or exit Jzadirune.
If there are any elves or dwarves in the group, they get to make a Search check as if they were actively searching EVERY time they walk past that secret door. You would, of course, make those checks yourself on their behalf since they don't know about the secret door, and you can at any time simply decide that they rolled a 20. If that is high enough for them to discover the door, then you're all set.
Many people forget that dwarves get that ability too and they're even better at it than elves if the secret door is set in stone.
And as far as raising their dead, the priests at the cathedral of Wee Jas are high enough level. And if push comes to shove, they can go to Sasserine to have it done or buy (or "discover") a scroll.
Shannon
LL,
I think that the time involved is going to be as AA said. The 1st level parties are going to need lots of time for recovery and such, as well as letting you really flesh out the city for them at a low level.
**Slight Spoiler Alert**
Personally, I've just started Life's Bazaar about a week ago with my group (biweekly game, next session March 7 due to other obligations). I've actually divided up the first adventure as follows:
Session 1: Character Creation & Opening Act (Ruphus & the thugs & meeting Jenya)
Session 2-3: Investigation of the Orphanage, various other locations, AND a certain gnomish Locksmith. Get to know the feel of the town and some of the stuff that they can do in this part. Introduce various shopkeepers, and safehouses. Also, introduce a certain LL member who they missed during the opening act (if your party missed Jil).
Sessions 3-4: Searching Jzsadirune & healing as necessary.
Sessions 5-7-ish: Going through the Malachite Fortress, resolving the "issues" contained within.
Since we've altered the system (we're playing in the Spycraft 2.0 system, in the Forgotten Realms), and it's divided up into "scenes" our scenes are divided into the sessions as I put above. If the party really burns themselves in Jzadirune, I'll allow a split-scene so that they can recover some of their resources (spells & such)
In RW time, I figure about 28 hours. In game time, I think the adventure will take about 22-25 days due to the complexity. I don't see a real problem with this, but some groups won't like that length of time in a dungeon. My main goal is the interactions of the people, I've even fleshed out the other kidnap victims in the fortress so that my group will be happier (I'm using the magazines).
Hopefully some of this helped.
/d
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The others have offered some very good points that I hadn't considered. On a metagame note, you may want the players to have the luxury of taking their time simply because the later chapters can be a bit rushed. Even Flood Season and Zenith Trajectory have implied deadlines (or at least incentives for haste), as does The Demonscar Legacy.
It occurs to me also that it would not be at all unreasonable for Jenya to encourage them to haste without pushing them. She knows the divination implies that the children won't last forever so she could easily express her worries and thoughts to the PC's every time she sees them. Saying things like, "I hope we're not too late to save them" or "I know you're doing all you can, and I worry that something might happen to them before they're found" would be a way to encourage the group if they seem to be losing their focus on finding the children. Just make sure it comes across as sincere concern for the children or it could have just the opposite effect.
If Jenya is being kind to them and helping them out, they may very well want to take her words to heart just out of gratitude and a sincere desire to help the city.
Shannon
Wow..some really great input.
In response to AA: I wasnt aware that the Elves could roll every single time they pass a secret doorway. I was under the assumption that if they miss it once then they don't know its there. I'm glad you brought that up...
We just finished up our session..I had planned for 4hrs but we went 7. Still havn't found the elevator but the party seems to be VERY unwilling to use the tunnels that are dug. When they finally reached the Great Factory, all but one took off through a door, found the secret door and got stuck in the traped (spear) hallway. The other was keeping watch on in the main room and almost met an unfortunate demise at the hands of the Grell. Fario and Fellian had to show up in the nick of time. I thought FOR SURE they would make it down..lol.
I was just trying to get a general consensus on how long it took your groups to complete Lifes Bazaar. I am running a group through it and we are on our 3rd session as of today (about 16hrs). I don't really mind because it has given Cauldron a chance to develop in game (they spend a lot of time roleplaying in city). I was thinking about having Jenya start to complain on the length of time it is taking to find the children and threaten to hire the Stormblades...any thoughts or comments...
Food for thought here, my group has been playing the entire campaign since Sep of 04, once a week 4hours a session. They should reach Skullrot tonight.
I think Life's Bazaar took 4 sessions of about 4 hours each. So 16 hours. One player was a paranoid rogue so they found most every trap and that didn't delay them.
As for resurrection, I have implemented the variant I saw at Wizards. Raise Dead brings you back with one negative level that does not go away until you earn current level x 1000 xp. That way, a lower level cleric can cast it, the cost is reasonable and the character isn't screwed for... oh... the rest of the campaign. Thus, Jenya can do the Raise Dead until the party's cleric is high enough level.
My players have just completed their third session in Jzadirune. At the end of that session they encountered Starbrow's keeper (good roleplay opportunity) and reasoned out the way to the lift where they battled the guards for the finish. It was great ending on that note: This must be the way to the Malachite Fortress!
Everyone had a good time, and that's what matters to my players and me. As long as they feel like they're getting somewhere and have fun doing it, our session was a success.
My party discovered the secret door to the lift their very first trip down to Jzadirune - and I almost had a TPK. The space is rather constricted, they missed the trap, and the hobgoblins heard them. So, the party was trying to rescue a party member from the slime pit (1d6 damage per round), while fighting the hobgoblins with cover all in a rather restricted area.
Let's just say that their first trip to Jzadirune did not last very long - one fight, and then back to the surface to recover with three (out of five) unconscious PCs.
Also, don't be in too much of a rush to have the party go down to the Malachite fortress - there are a number of tough fights - especially if you check to see if the hobgoblins hear combat in other sections of the complex.
My PCs managed to go straight to the Slave Bazaar and started fighting Kazmojen, Prickles, Pyllrak Shyraat and the Hobgoblins. This raised the alarm, and pretty much every other hobgoblin in the Malachite Fortress came to investigate and help to defend their leader. If they had not been 6 PCs along with Fario and Fellian, there would have been numerous deaths.
Well, my experience is that the further along the campaign you get the less time the players take to finish a chapter. When we started the campaign I think that Life's Bazaar took six or seven 4 hour sessions. We just finished Lords of Oblivion and that chapter only took about three sessions.
The way my party has been going they have managed to make level 3 before even finding the elevator. They should hit the lift by next session but after reading all of your posts..I am in no hurry. They will get there when they get there. Thanks for all the comments and insights. Those of you who have introduced the Striders....have you revealed to the party what the Striders are all about?
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Not at first. Especially after the episode in the Lucky Monkey, Meerthan (in his dwarven disguise) was sounding them out for information and to find out any suitable future members. Once one party member is deemed worthy a whole slew of information (origin of the Cagewrights) and help is going to splash down on the group. In the beginning Fario was the romantic interest of our female gamer, but he and Fellian had to leave (on important business for Meerthan) after Life's Bazaar (and they did not reveal their membership of the Striders).
We also had a cleric of Farlaghn in our group, and Meerthan was giving him help and advice without compromising any information about the Striders and his role in the organization, trying to find out, if the cleric was worthy material to add to the troups. (Due to more and more absence of the cleric in our group because of a very active membership in a political party, and his forgetfulness about those details from conversations on the bus... none of the info given to him reached the group and Meerthan deemed him unworthy...)
By the way it took us more than a dozen sessions to get through Life's Bazaar.
It took my guys 3 6-8 hour sessions to finish up LB. A PC and Fario died in Jzaridune (Yuathyb is nasty), and another PC died in the MF (Prickles scored a crit on his first attack, a charge). I made sure they were 3rd lvl before they hit the MF, but it was still pretty difficult.
Olodrin