Hello all. A lot of you are rooting for more epic level adventures on these boards. James has mentioned a few times that he doesn't get very many proposals for them or perhaps there might be more.
Anyway, myself and a fellow writer have set our collective sights on writing some and we have a couple of solid ideas so far. However, I'm interested in hearing from you all what you would and would not like to see and thoughts on the kind of rewards that would make even going on such high stake adventures worth it.
What I'd like to see:
1.) Adversaries among the legendary ranks of archfiends, archomentals, abominations (lotsa "a"s, eh?), etc.
I don't want a bunch of humanoids with class levels as opponents.
2.) Extreme locales: The Negative Energy Plane, the void of space, the body of a dead god...not a city, cavern, etc. that would work in a 1st-level adventure.
3.) World-shaking events: It doesn't have to be "stop the apocalypse", but should at least be something that lower-level characters (even in greater numbers) wouldn't have a chance to resolve.
Good luck!
It does have to be the apocalypse!! I think a campaign arc would be better though...the pcs could start at 18 and finish at 25...Don't know....
What about a "what if the Age of Worms wasn't stopped and the apocalypse came to earth" sequel? : )
I'm interested in hearing from you all what you would and would not like to see and thoughts on the kind of rewards that would make even going on such high stake adventures worth it.
Things I would like to see:
-An adventure for the 24th-26th level range.
-Truly epic themes; angels vs. demons, the Blood War, corruption and redemption, the schemings of arch-devils, deific ascension, the Far Realm, etc.
-Exotic locations; deep space, the ocean depths, the Planes, the Underdark, etc.
-Memorable encounters and villians; believable goals, engaging personalities, smart tactics, etc.
Things I would not like to see:
-Deus-ex-machina; encounters that cannot be defeated/solved by the party alone.
-Boring monsters; the Paragon template in the Epic Handbook is boring, advancing a monster with background/personality appropriate non-epic templates and class levels is not boring.
Appropriate rewards:
-Artifacts; minor artifacts for each character or the opportunity to destroy/obtain a major artifact.
-Status; become rulers of a major country, leaders of an epic organization, or favored champions of a deity.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I like the idea of something Really Powerful, but I also like the idea of ending a campaign with the same themes it saw at the beginning.
I've run a campaign where the party spent their early levels exploring a region's dungeons; mid-level, defending the land against an underdark incursion; high-level, administering and building two kingdoms (This was a Birthright campaign); and the final adventure was an encounter with Ravenloft, as the Demiplane of Dread manifested its world-laws over the PC's realms. When the abomination High Lady of the Thieves' Guild starts accessing Darklord abilities, and the local citizenry begins to realize rewards for being evil towards one another, the PCs take a keen personal interest in freeing their (!) territories from the influences of the Demiplane.
I don't know how you'd write that up as a Dungeon adventure, though. It really has its keenest impact when the PC's see aspects of the campaign that've been there since the beginning, shift and corrupt. The more the DM can personalize the NPC's who shift towards disloyalty, the dungeons cleaned out at 3rd level which suddenly become threats again twenty levels later, the isolation from allied kingdoms and the creepy new neighbors; the better.
I second the Planescape and AP suggestions. Heck, if you could do a Planescape AP I'd be a Steve Greer worshipper for life! And just think, the factions could provide tons of juicy material for Dragon, for substribers who are playing the AP.
Good suggestion so far, you guys. I'm definitely paying close attention to all of them.
In the STAP, Paizo has been using the affiliations introduced in Player's Handbook II. It was interesting and refreshing for me to incorporate them into an adventure and even make one up (the Emerald Crest) from scratch. Would using themes that could incorporate affiliations in an epic level adventure be something you all would like to see? At this level of play, the PCs would actually get to be the powerful leaders of their affiliations, drawing upon their organization's resources and even bolstering their reputations and holdings, etc.
Hrm. I'm working on a FR epic-ish query right now. I'm finding the hardest part is pegging the difficulty of the various encounters - epic power levels do seem to vary tremendously between parties.
Bleh. I just want to be able to use a tarrasque of legend, is that so wrong? ;)
Best thing about hi levels: ARTIFACTS.
"So now I have the sword of Kas!! MUAHAHAH!!! Wait until Vecna sees this."
The idea of doing a plot arc rather than a single adventure for epic seems to keep coming up.
Just a couple thoughts:
- Help Epic level character with his ascension to god.
Ewck
Steve, I have one, but you probably already know about it through a cabbagey place. ;)
Steve, I have one, but you probably already know about it through a cabbagey place. ;)
Yep. ::Nudge, nudge... Wink, wink::
Sigil as a setting would offer a variety of High-Level play where major players and shakers could appear and it wouldn't be regarded as uncommon. I think "Diplomacy" in 144 is a good primer for high level play, even if it's not epic. Lots of stuff to accomplish outside combat, but the combat encounters are also dicey. Sigil would also grant a nexus point that could link to any number of exotic locales.
Regarding the affiliations, I like the idea of having the PCs recruited into some sort of overarching epic-level secret society that has crazy influence over every kingdom, giving the players the ability to feel both very unique and very challanged, and opening up almost any adventure ever besides.
I would like to see more information on the Blood War as well. Mabye the PCs could have to take sides. Either that or have the PCs become directley involved with a coup in the Nine Hells. I second Reflex for Half's idea.
Think Mythology.
Labors of Hercules.
Troy.
Thor.
I propose something earth shaking, not necessarily world-ending. I'd love to see a demilich show up in a 3.5 dungeon without it being the Tomb of Horrors, or a corpse tearer linnorm (my personal favorite from 3e). I think demon princes/gods have been done enough times. They've become a sort of "default" monster for high levels, let's see something with non-deity status for an epic adventure.
Regarding the affiliations, I like the idea of having the PCs recruited into some sort of overarching epic-level secret society that has crazy influence over every kingdom, giving the players the ability to feel both very unique and very challanged, and opening up almost any adventure ever besides.
I like that!
I run alot of epic level stuff, though we play 2ed, I have PCs that are approaching 60th level. Here is some of what I do:
The PC's learn that the gods are just playthings of an older more powerful race that controls all of creation, setting god against god and mortal against mortal.
Introduce a pocket dimension that was a genetic experiment of above beings in creating a race of epic level extra planual creatures and monsters
The key I've found to running very hig levels is cunning. Play your villans like you are running your own PC's. WHen you create a very difficult problem, don't even try to create a solution for it. That's the PC's problem.
Create advesaries that are half again as high level as the PC's and have the PC's fight them on equal numbers. (Anytime a group of my PC's fight a single creature, they cut it to pieces, because of that whole strength in numbers thing.
Don't allow the PC's to deal with only one villian at a time. hit them with a half dozen, and allow them to take advantage of the PC's distractions caused by the others.
This is what I've got for a start.
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I run alot of epic level stuff, though we play 2ed, I have PCs that are approaching 60th level. Here is some of what I do:
The PC's learn that the gods are just playthings of an older more powerful race that controls all of creation, setting god against god and mortal against mortal.
Introduce a pocket dimension that was a genetic experiment of above beings in creating a race of epic level extra planual creatures and monsters
The key I've found to running very hig levels is cunning. Play your villans like you are running your own PC's. WHen you create a very difficult problem, don't even try to create a solution for it. That's the PC's problem.
Create advesaries that are half again as high level as the PC's and have the PC's fight them on equal numbers. (Anytime a group of my PC's fight a single creature, they cut it to pieces, because of that whole strength in numbers thing.
Don't allow the PC's to deal with only one villian at a time. hit them with a half dozen, and allow them to take advantage of the PC's distractions caused by the others.
This is what I've got for a start.
I'd love to observe a couple of those sessions.
Thoth-Amon
Short idea: mirror world...PC fighting anti PC; maybe some strange dilema, if they kill the anti part, the postive part will die too. So they have to find away around this, severing the link to the mirror world.
I like affiliations, and to appreciate an affiliation one has to gain the 30 points...
I would like to see the characters have to win by dying. It is a hard choice but at epic things should be hard (and not just by needing to roll more 20's). To keep from railroading however some other hard choices would be to strip them of something they have become dependent on and see how they survive. magic items, intelligence, booku hp, each other, healing, an arm or eyes, save or die spells, etc.
DM: After wiping Loki's gore with the Fenris wolf's pelt from the door a handle can be seen. A nondescript room with two goblins is on the other side.
PC1: I do not want to waste a magic missile on a goblin.
PC2: Goblins? I swipe their head with my Holy Avenger. (rolls d20)
DM: As PC steps through the portal a silent white flash cuts across the room. (consults d20's roll) Your stick with a leaf on it bounces from the skin of the first goblin's nose. The second goblin looks at the naked target before him, grins, pulls back his bow and says "hehehe lunch"
I imagine that a great opportunity for epic level play should involve roleplaying with the Gods, like attending a council on Mt Olympus... other than that when I think epic D&D I usually think of those mind-bending Elric novels.
I am thinking of having an expired diety, such as Kyuss, leave a corpse on the astral plane, and a spirit that can grant powers. Pieces of Kyuss would be power keys to Kyuss spells, Prestige Classes, and summing Wormtouched monsters. I have the 2 books, but I have to locate them. High level power scavengers might start cults