Generaly I allow any pres class that i've had a chance to read through the rules for. I rarey make many changes changes exept for flavor purposes(obviously i have to change the gods and any oganizations that the class relies on).
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When you put together a homebrew, do you use prestige classes straight out of the book? Do you retool them to fit your homebrew? Or do you make up your own prestige classes?
And, do you totally disallow certain PrC's?
Really depends on the nature of the homebrew campaign. My main campaign is "generic" enough to allow most core type prestige classes without tweaking, and most Greyhawk or FR specifc prestige classes with some minor tweaking in name / focus / organisation. I'll generally allow any prestige class a player wants to use from an official source, but at the start of a campaign I often publish a list of what I consider "appropriate" prestige classes for the type of game I plan to run, or suggest possibilities to my players based on their character concepts.
For example, my Shackled City game, one of my players wanted to create a character sort of a cross between Van Helsing (ala Hugh Jackman) and a church inquisitor, with demons and possession as the focus of his ire. Amongst others, I suggested the Fiendslayer PrC from an old issue of Dragon. Well, as far as I was concerned he could use the class as presented in the magazine (with some minor tweaks to update to 3.5 rules), but working toether we actually created an alternate background to the class, that tied it to a dark and mysterious order within the church of St Cuthbert. So from now on, if anyone else wants to play a fiendslayer in that campaign world, they would be a Cuthbertian Fiendslayer.
On very much the other hand, in my occasional free time, Im working on a campaign setting influenced by a series of novel. For that setting I would be designing prestige classes based on character concepts and organisations within the novels, to better capture the feel Im going for. I probably wont be allowing any prestige classes other than the campaign specific ones I design (All assuming this campaign ever gets worked out and played!).
I must confess that I'm a little disappointed... The title of your thread led me to envision questions pertaining to ales, meads, and beers merrily bubbling away in a carboy in the basement!
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That's what I think I would do; see what the characters wanted to go with then do a retcon to fit it into the world in question.
Oh, what novel series are you adapting? Just curious.
Chronicles of an Age of Darkness by Hugh Cook ...
when I say adapting .... it's a long ongoing project which has seen about 10 years (on and off), three different game systems and several setbacks. I freely aknowledge that I might never finish this adaptation enough to play a campaign, but its a project I always seem to get back to from time to time...
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When you put together a homebrew, do you use prestige classes straight out of the book? Do you retool them to fit your homebrew? Or do you make up your own prestige classes?
And, do you totally disallow certain PrC's?
There are plenty of things that are "in the books" that I still don't use, and certain PrCs are among them. There are also several PrCs that I would like to use that need serious reworking to fit anything I'd ever play or DM. For example, I really like the Vengeance Knight in the Champions of ruin book, but as I don't play FG, it needs very serious retooling. I'm toying with just taking parts of it, such as the armour facility, and incorporating that into a general homemade "Knight" PrC.
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That's what I think I would do; see what the characters wanted to go with then do a retcon to fit it into the world in question.
Oh, what novel series are you adapting? Just curious.Chronicles of an Age of Darkness by Hugh Cook ...
when I say adapting .... it's a long ongoing project which has seen about 10 years (on and off), three different game systems and several setbacks. I freely aknowledge that I might never finish this adaptation enough to play a campaign, but its a project I always seem to get back to from time to time...
Right on. I've always wanted to adapt the Gunslinger novels by Steven King, but I can never get around to it. I don't know if it would work anyway; the whole universe is so different.
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There are plenty of things that are "in the books" that I still don't use, and certain PrCs are among them. There are also several PrCs that I would like to use that need serious reworking to fit anything I'd ever play or DM. For example, I really like the Vengeance Knight in the Champions of ruin book, but as I don't play FG, it needs very serious retooling. I'm toying with just taking parts of it, such as the armour facility, and incorporating that into a general homemade "Knight" PrC.When you put together a homebrew, do you use prestige classes straight out of the book? Do you retool them to fit your homebrew? Or do you make up your own prestige classes?
And, do you totally disallow certain PrC's?
I can dig that. There's a lot of PrC's that I look at, and can't figure out why anyone would want to even do that when they could just be a straight up core class and do almost the same thing without losing too much power by over-specializing.
For me it was not really the prestige classes that where an issue but the core classes. That said I am very restrictive. I only allow maybe 40% of the classes from the fairly sizeable stable of books in use in the campaign. Furthermore what class can be chosen with which race is highly circumcised. So no halfling or dwarven arcane spell casters - though both races could be Psions. Oriental flavoured classes must be from Chin-Tuo and therefore must be human. One could play a Centaur or Lizard Folk but if so one is from a fairly feral tribe and therefore may not take any class that has its roots in an urban life style. Essentially every region or race allowed has a proscribed list of classes and prestige classes that one would be allowed to take.
Each class or prestige class comes with a short one or two paragraph write up detailing the classes place and role within the campaign world and that always trumps whatever is written in the description of the class or prestige class in the splat books. One example of this is that almost all the prestige classes in BOED where used but had their names changed and each of the good and neutral Gods in the campaign received a Holy Warrior unique to their specific faith. For a few of these I went outside of the BoeD so for example my campaigns holy warrior for the God of Magic was taken from the online supplement to the Complete Divine which has an interesting Cleric type that is focused around arcane magic.
In any case it was classes that where the real stickler for me as I was converting my world from 2nd Edition to 3.5. I needed a Cavalier class that was unlike anything in the books. A holy warrior that was part of an organization but carried out military enforcement duties throughout the land. Could not be a Paladin as that class had become a Holy Warrior to a specific God. So I made a class up that fit what I was looking for.
For Barbarians I found myself having some trouble. For the feral non-human races like Lizard Folk and Half-Giant the Barbarian fit but the human 'Barbarians' in my world fell into two distinct societies - neither of which had a Norse feel. One group was much like Woodlands Amerinds (Algonquin or Huron etc.) while the other group where most akin of Inuit. Neither group really made any sense as frothing maniacs. So I created a new class for each. The Woodland Indian class has became a real favourite of mine and my players as its 'gimmick' is hps. No rage and no feat every 2nd level but hps and DR coming out the wazoo. Can't hit very hard (not enough free feats to make devastating combos) but the class sure can take it.
For my jungle dwelling, gun totting Matriarchal civilization I made a Zenetian Jungle Mage who's gimmick was guns and lots of touch spells that she has the ability to cast on her guns bullets.
I also needed a race/class to take the role of the decadent old empires constantly infighting aristocracy. These guys theme was humans who are naturally part of a slew of noble houses. Their right to rule is due to the psionic talents that comes naturally as part of their birthright and thus distinguishes them from 'lesser' or subject peoples. All the noble houses are constantly jockeying for position each trying to put their houses leader on the Throne. For this class I stripped everything out of the Wilder except the base PSP progression and then merged it with the Aristocrat NPC class to create 'Old Haddathian Aristocrats' I then included multi-classing restrictions (Haddathian Aristocrat must always be your highest level class or you suffer a 20% XP penalty) to keep players from grabbing a few levels of he class and then shifting to one that will give them bonus feats (like a real wilder or a fighter).
I allow my players to petition me to include a class or Prestige class but unless I can think of a way the class would expand and improve the campaign world I tend to say no. I absolutely always say no to petitions to make an exception to the restrictions on which race can be which class since if I made one exception I would feel compelled to make an exception for the other players as well and then I might as well have not included the restrictions in the first place as it just becomes a handicap for my NPCs if the players can have the unique one and only Lizard Folk that went to the Chin-Tuo and joined their monastic order. Fortunately my players can't open their mouths without the pungent smell of cheese wafting through the air so its generally guilt free when I turn down their latest request.
Not to say that I have eliminated cheese with my restrictions. Far from it, the hunt for cheese is alive and well in my group. In fact I think I could go so far as to say that cheese is an all consuming passion for my players. At best my restrictions have presented a speed bump that gets in the way of the cheese. Still anything that makes it harder for my players to effectively translate the latest totally broken offering on Wizards character optimization forum is all good in my book.
I use the Prestige Classes straight out of the book(s). Each prestige class requires a backstory on how this training can be obtained, however. Where is 'shadowdancer' school? Is there more than one? Can a prestige class be taught by only one tutor? Does it require attending a certain 'college' or can it be learned on its own?
If you answer all these questions, the prestige classes blend into your homebrew campaign world and become part of the tapestry of that world...becoming more valuable and more interwoven in the process.
My suggestion is to allow most prestige classes to be learned at more than one location...the more uncommon ones (such as some of the classes from non-core books) can be "sole source" so that they can only be obtained in one way.
EDIT: I just read Jeremy McDonald's post, which posted about the same time as mine--well said, Jeremy. I think you explained what I was getting at with more detail and eloquence.
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My suggestion is to allow most prestige classes to be learned at more than one location...the more uncommon ones (such as some of the classes from non-core books) can be "sole source" so that they can only be obtained in one way.
Savage Tide somewhat spoilers!!!
I'm kinda wondering about how to end up doing this in Savage Tide (if I ever run it). Or when I eventually run it after adapting it to 4ed....
It seems like everybody will hit a level of 5-7, when they could start to take a prestige class, at a place where there aren't a lot of options for potential teachers to be present.
Do you guys ever say they got the appropriate training at lower levels, where such training could've been available?
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Oh, and Jeremy, those three uniqe classes/prestige classes sound really great. How do you go about making sure they are balanced? Just curious.
It's funny about the Norse barbarian; the Norse berserker historically seemed to be a rather "special case" like a prestige class. I think I've heard there is a train of thought among academic circles that hallucinogenics might have been involved, but I tend not to think so. I think it's disputed; not really sure.
It didn't seem to me that all vikings fit the D&D class of "barbarian"; more like straight fighters IMHO.
EDIT: I just read Jeremy McDonald's post, which posted about the same time as mine--well said, Jeremy. I think you explained what I was getting at with more detail and eloquence.
Umm, thanks.
But I did not get the impression that we are really saying the same thing. Your essentially open to any character class or prestige class (if I read your post right) but the player has to provide the back story for the class - where they come from, what they do and what their role is. I can certainly see how this can work and even how this can really fill out all sorts of areas of the campaign world adding greater life to it, but its not what I do. I essentially tried to make the class and race options fit the themes of the world as I envisioned it. Your system is much more dynamic and I might even, eventually, adopt something similar but first my players have to run through two or three campaigns in the world so that they can get a good handle on what the baseline is. After that I would be more open to them tinkering with the concepts. Essentially I want to feel that a player knows the themes that run through the world and do their tinkering with an understanding of look and feel of the campaign. Right now I think their mostly at the number chasing stage - if I threw the gates open there would be a party of slightly modified Half Giant Frenzied Berserker with the special tribal benefit of never having to make will saves to stop their Frenzy - they'd probably also give them 'Greater Monkey Grip' and make them like Spriggan so that they can get even bigger at will.
"But, Jeremy, they have the brutal restriction of only being able to enlarge 10 times a day - no wait that's to restrictive, better make that 20 times a day - yeah that's the ticket".
I should point out that I play with a group of 30+ men and woman - their sole excuse for this rampant munchkinism (is that a word?) is that most of them have not picked up the dice since they where teenagers in high school.
Oh, and Jeremy, those three uniqe classes/prestige classes sound really great. How do you go about making sure they are balanced? Just curious.
Start them off to weak and then keep adding more benefits until the players start to seriously look at them. Yeah - not the greatest solution in the world but that's how it worked in my case.
One of the few benefits of hanging around in this cheese shop is listening in on the players after I have brutally decapitated one of their characters. At this point they don't care about offending me so if one of the players suggests Ice Wall Barbarian and two others pipe up to say why they think the class is a completely crappy choice and sub-par because of A, B and C, I can use the knowledge gained and go home and tweak the class. Next time they mention it as an option (because my newby got her character caught at ground zero when Draconian inspired Dragon troops started exploding during their death throes, setting off their damaged compatriots in a brutal chain reaction) they'll be debating whether the class has improved enough to be worth taking seriously - or not. Of course even here you have to have some idea when enough is enough. I'm certain my Cavalier style class is balanced - maybe even a little to powerful. No one wants the alignment restrictions or the tithe on treasure the class has to pay so they stay away from it.
It's funny about the Norse barbarian; the Norse berserker historically seemed to be a rather "special case" like a prestige class. I think I've heard there is a train of thought among academic circles that hallucinogenics might have been involved, but I tend not to think so. I think it's disputed; not really sure.
It didn't seem to me that all vikings fit the D&D class of "barbarian"; more like straight fighters IMHO.
I agree. In fact I think the class is probably rather difficult to incorporate into most of the established worlds. It gets played a lot because its a very interesting and well designed mechanically. If it was not for that we would see a hell of a lot less Barbarians from the edge of civilization in most Grey Hawk and Forgotten Realms campaigns I'm sure. I mean how many people played a character from these outback locales in 1st or 2nd edition? My bet - not many. Now they are everywhere. Not only do the players like the class but a Barbarian is a really good NPC adversary from the DMs perspective as well. Easy to make - you don't have to choose a ton of feats, and the class can rage thus providing the PCs with a more dangerous adversary.
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In 1e., I always liked being the barbarian fighter type with chainmail and a battleaxe; Conan withdrawals and whatnot, unless I had rolled good enough stats to be a paladin. I'd be all over that Huron-like "barbarian" class. Sounds fun.
Stand up and slug it out until one guy falls, and it isn't going to be me (I hope) because I have beaucoup hitpoints.
In 1e., I always liked being the barbarian fighter type with chainmail and a battleaxe; Conan withdrawals and whatnot, unless I had rolled good enough stats to be a paladin. I'd be all over that Huron-like "barbarian" class.
Yeah but your a Conan junkie. There are not so many like you around.
In 1e., I always liked being the barbarian fighter type with chainmail and a battleaxe; Conan withdrawals and whatnot, unless I had rolled good enough stats to be a paladin. I'd be all over that Huron-like "barbarian" class. Sounds fun.
Stand up and slug it out until one guy falls, and it isn't going to be me (I hope) because I have beaucoup hitpoints.
OK you have encouraged me to post the class.
I think that an experienced player would probably soon grow a little bored with this class, there really are not many choices you get to make either during a session or even when you level up.
However I find that my Newby really likes it. It is generally a good class for a Newby. Everything is more or less spelled out and static. Mostly there are no long lists of abilities that she has to try and understand. She still has to pick a few feats (at 3rd, 6th, 9th etc. - like all characters) but there are not enough feats to really worry about the whole concept of feat chains - weapon focus and weapon specialization are very viable options with this class. The stats don't change in the middle of a session (like a normal Barbarian) and the class has lots of hps and damage reduction goes up fairly quickly meaning that she still takes notably less damage per blow even as the monsters get more powerful. This is fairly important for a newby who does not want her character to die. She understands why she wants to make her best stat Constitution (even more hps = live longer). She gets something new every level, so its interesting, but it is usually not that complex to understand. The only place where there is a bit of a plethora of choice is in the skill points but even this is moderately reasonable after 1st level and the skill list is (compared to feats or spells) small.
Note also that Listen and Spot are class skills and that the class has a fair number of skill points. This is DM trickery to make the newby feel special and to throw the spotlight on her without her actually having to force her way out of the wall flower role before she is really ready to seize the spotlight from the more veteran players. These are passive skills, and usually cross class for most classes but here they are likely to be really high.
Because they are passive she does not have to remember to use them but the DM will be checking to see if the party sees or hears all sorts of interesting things. Bad guys waiting in ambush, hidden loot or hard to hear snatches of conversation or monster noises. So now our newby is going to be the one that spots the ambush, sees the secret loot stash or overhears the interesting conversation. Her reaction will probably be mostly the same - Excitedly announcing that she tells everyone else. But every time this happens the rest of the players are going to be happy they had her around, and they'll signal their appreciation is ways she'll pick up, so she gets to be the hero and her character is appreciated. The only ceviat here is that its best if you don't have a veteran player with a ranger in the party as he'll steal this role.
Variant Barbarian Class
Role: The Variant Barbarian is a tough front line combatant meant to soak up damage.
Abilities: Strength, Dexterity and especially Constitution are probably the most important stats.
Hit Dice: d12
Class Skills: Climb (str), Craft (int), Intimidate (chr), Jump (str), Listen (wis), Spot(wis), Survival (wis), Swim (str).
Skill points at 1st level: 4+ intelligence modifier *4.
Skill Points at each additional level: 4 + intelligence modifier.
Weapon and Armour Proficiencies: The Variant Barbarian is proficient with all simple and martial weapons. They are also proficient with light armour and medium armour as well as shields (except tower shields).
BAB – as fighter (+1 per level)
Good Fort Save, Poor Reflex and Will Saves (As Barbarian)
Benefits by level
1St = Endurance, Nature Sense, Damage Reduction 1/-
2nd = Woodland Stride
3Rd = Toughness, Improved Toughness
4th = Damage Reduction 2/-
5th = Trap Sense +1,
6th = Uncanny Dodge
7th = Damage Reduction 3/-
8th = Die hard
9th = Trap Sense +2
10th = Damage Reduction 4/-
11th = Improved Uncanny Dodge
12th = Dive for Cover
13th = Damage Reduction 5/-
14th = Trap Sense +3
15th = Strong Mind
16th = Damage Reduction 6/-
17th = Trap Sense +4
18th = Damage Reduction 7/-
19th = Damage Reduction 8/-
20th = Damage Reduction 10/-
Fast Movement (ex): A Variant Barbarians land speed is 10 feet faster then other humans so long as she is not wearing heavy armour or carrying a heavy load.
Illiterate: A Variant Barbarian cannot read or write.
Trap Sense: The Variant Barbarian gains the ability to sense traps – at the last moment pulling away. The Variant Barbarian gains a bonus to their save versus traps.
Uncanny Dodge: The Variant Barbarian gains the ability to react with amazing speed to a fast developing situation. The Variant Barbarian retains her dexterity bonus to AC even if caught flat-footed.
Improved Uncanny Dodge: The Variant Barbarian can no longer be flanked.
Dive for Cover: As the feat.
Damage Reduction: The Variant Barbarian can shrug off damage. Reduce damage taken from natural weapons or events by the number indicated.
Endurance: See Page 93 of the PHB.
Woodland Stride: The Variant Barbarian can move through undergrowth at normal speed.
Nature Sense: The Variant Barbarian receives +2 on Knowledge(nature) and survival checks.
Toughness: +3 hps.
Improved Toughness: +1 hp per level.
Die hard: As the feat.
Strong Mind: As the feat.
When you put together a homebrew, do you use prestige classes straight out of the book? Do you retool them to fit your homebrew? Or do you make up your own prestige classes?
And, do you totally disallow certain PrC's?
Well I am not DMing right now but my thoughts on this are that classes - even PrCs represent skill sets NOT particular affiliations - thus in my worlds (all homebrew) all classes and PrCs would potentially be available.
That said while I wouldn't exclude a class or PrC based on its regionality (for example it is easy enough to envision a warrior styled along European lines, but with a the skill sets and abilties of a samurai if that is what the player wanted. Just tweak things from "ki" to "faith" or "energy" or whatever works in your world) I would exclude classes because I think they are unbalanced - or lame (many of those).
Because I view classes as skills sets (as opposed to affiliations to specific organizations - or professions with a set progression) I actually prefer for players to develop their own PrCs, magic items etc. Developing and customizing their character to fit their vision (and idea of fun) as opposed to following a set progression.
I would also add that I see MANY of the PrCs inappropriate for PCs but totally appropriate for NPCs - I think it is important to have people in the world (any game world) with abilities the PCs can't directly duplicate or acquire, a magical world without mysteries is not my cup 'o tea.
Hope thtat helps
hehe I got excited and thought this was gonna be about beer :) lol, silly me :) uhm, I put everything together from scratch, but I dont retool any prestige classes, but not all are available in any given location as I do require training for all except the ones directly associated with a diety as that person continually is training.
I do tend to give more abilities, more feats and more skills as I think the game is a bit to limited in this. These are all gained through roleplaying and can be granted by various powers or items.
I've always wanted to adapt the Gunslinger novels by Steven King, but I can never get around to it. I don't know if it would work anyway; the whole universe is so different.
I'm working on it now, from end to beginning, more or less. I've got Prentiss as a mystic theurge (he was originally a priest, IIRC); Taheen as rakshasa (no-brainer there); Low People as half-fiend humans; etc. The breakers are contributing power points (spell slots) to an epic spell managed by Pimli and created by the Crimson King (I haven't statted the latter yet). Let me know if you'd like to compare notes; I can email you the files.
Heathansson--
EPIC SPELL:
Break Beam
Abjuration
Spellcraft DC: 36
Components: V, S, M, Ritual
Casting Time: 100 days and 11 minutes
Range: 300 ft.
Target: One beam
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
To Develop: 414,000 gp; 90 days; 15,560 XP, minimum 24 ranks in Knowledge (the planes). Seed: dispel (DC 19). Factor: +195 dispel check (+390 DC). Mitigating factors: increase casting time by 10 minutes and 100 days (–220 DC), 100 additional casters contributing 1st-level spell slots (–100 DC), 5 additional casters contributing 2nd-level spell slots (–30 DC), 3 additional casters contributing 3rd-level spell slots (–15 DC), rare material component (parts of brains of twins; ad hoc –8 DC).
Lore has it that eight luminous beams of force, with their nexus at the Dark Tower in the Concordant Opposition, link all the planes. If these beams were all destroyed, the very fabric of the multiverse would collapse. The break beam spell was created by the Crimson King who, in his madness, may actually believe (as Pimli Prentiss does) that the destruction of the multiverse would be (philosphically speaking) a noble and virtuous endeavor.
To dispel (break) a beam is a massive undertaking, equivalent to the dispelling of a 220th-level spell (DC 231; assuming an 18th-level caster, this requires a roll of 18-20 on 1d20).
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I've always wanted to adapt the Gunslinger novels by Steven King, but I can never get around to it. I don't know if it would work anyway; the whole universe is so different.I'm working on it now, from end to beginning, more or less. I've got Prentiss as a mystic theurge (he was originally a priest, IIRC); Taheen as rakshasa (no-brainer there); Low People as half-fiend humans; etc. The breakers are contributing power points (spell slots) to an epic spell managed by Pimli and created by the Crimson King (I haven't statted the latter yet). Let me know if you'd like to compare notes; I can email you the files.
I've gotta finish the last book; I've been saving it like a fine wine, because after it's read, there is no more.
Then work up some throwing dishes.|
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Heathansson--
EPIC SPELL:
Break Beam
Abjuration
Spellcraft DC: 36
Components: V, S, M, Ritual
Casting Time: 100 days and 11 minutes
Range: 300 ft.
Target: One beam
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
To Develop: 414,000 gp; 90 days; 15,560 XP, minimum 24 ranks in Knowledge (the planes). Seed: dispel (DC 19). Factor: +195 dispel check (+390 DC). Mitigating factors: increase casting time by 10 minutes and 100 days (–220 DC), 100 additional casters contributing 1st-level spell slots (–100 DC), 5 additional casters contributing 2nd-level spell slots (–30 DC), 3 additional casters contributing 3rd-level spell slots (–15 DC), rare material component (parts of brains of twins; ad hoc –8 DC).
Lore has it that eight luminous beams of force, with their nexus at the Dark Tower in the Concordant Opposition, link all the planes. If these beams were all destroyed, the very fabric of the multiverse would collapse. The break beam spell was created by the Crimson King who, in his madness, may actually believe (as Pimli Prentiss does) that the destruction of the multiverse would be (philosphically speaking) a noble and virtuous endeavor.
To dispel (break) a beam is a massive undertaking, equivalent to the dispelling of a 220th-level spell (DC 231; assuming an 18th-level caster, this requires a roll of 18-20 on 1d20).
It looks like you're waaaaaaaaay closer to the 'Tower than I am. I'm sitting in a shotgun shack in the desert somewhere...
I've gotta finish the last book; I've been saving it like a fine wine, because after it's read, there is no more.
D'OH! Many, many most abject apologies for the spoilers. Lemme know when you're done; by then I may have the Dixie Pig stats finished. In a few years I will hopefully reach Blaine the Mono...
When you put together a homebrew, do you use prestige classes straight out of the book? Do you retool them to fit your homebrew? Or do you make up your own prestige classes?
And, do you totally disallow certain PrC's?
I allow all of the original base classes as well as the warlock and hexblade(I'm sorry, but I just can't stand any of the other new ones), and most prestige classes provided they aren't world-specific, hideously unbalanced, or patently ridiculous. Still working on my baby after many many years. Labor of love.
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I've gotta finish the last book; I've been saving it like a fine wine, because after it's read, there is no more.D'OH! Many, many most abject apologies for the spoilers. Lemme know when you're done; by then I may have the Dixie Pig stats finished. In a few years I will hopefully reach Blaine the Mono...
That's okay. No problems. I gotta read'em all again anyway.
Jeremy, I like the idea of the Zenetian Jungle Mage, it sounds quite cool. Could you post the details please?
This class is maybe too entwined in my world to make for an easy (or useful) posting. I'd first have to cover the rules for Zenetian females (mainly mandatory skill purchases and equipment benefits/restrictions) then the rules on guns (for those of you used to 2nd edition gunpowder weaponry rules - this is a variant on that) before getting on to the class specifics.
For those interested in the idea I would suggest making a similar class for their own world. The Duskmage would be a good place to start then make a spell list that includes lots and lots of touch spells. Add some rules that allow the player to eventually pick up one or two spells from the sorcerer/wizard list per spell level to add a bit of verity to the class.
Regarding your variant barbarian class, here are some suggestions. Please also list where particular non-core feats are from (like Dive For Cover).
Interestingly I was editing exactly that when my time limit to post ran out. The whole time limit to edit posts on these boards really irks me. Its so unnecessary considering how civil this place is 99% of the time.
Any way
Dive For Cover: Complete Arcane p. 108
If you fail a reflex save you may immediately try again but you character automatically goes prone.
Strong Mind: Hmm - I have no listing. I might have made it up. Anyway +3 to saves versus mind affecting spells or psionics.
* changing the rate of DR gain to +1 point at odd levels or even levels, so that it’s easier to remember what DR a particular barbarian might have.
Its actually using a system until the very end (after 16th level). It goes up every three levels.
* swapping when Endurance and Toughness are gained; otherwise, the barbarian gains 6 extra hp at 3rd-level, swapping the two feats round makes the overall hp gain more even.
That makes a lot of sense.
Consider also ditching trap sense, as I can’t imagine that a barbarian gets that much involved with traps, and replace with evasion and improved evasion. In the hands of monks and rogues, evasion (and improved evasion) are much more potent, but because your barbarian variant has poor Reflex saves, it’s of less relative benefit, but still probably more useful to the character than trap sense, and also fits in better with the “survivability” concept. Also consider adding the Mettle ability (see the hexblade in Complete Warrior for a description) for the same reason, perhaps ditching some of the other bonus feats
I shied away from this for fear that I might manage to unbalance something. My cheese freak players have access to this class and I have to be careful lest they come up with some kind of Fighter 2/Psionic warrior 2/ Barbarian 2/ Variant Barbarian 4 type build. Evasion and Improved Evasion are dangerous abilities on the borderline between balanced and overpowered. That said Evasion and Improved Evasion might not be bad for higher levels as it would then be hard to multi-class for.
Thanks for the info. Glad I could help in some way.
Regarding timing pains, when writing a long post, create it in Microsoft Word (or whatever your favorite word processor is), then cut and paste.
I mostly do but I still find that when I read it again a little later I often want to fix something. Its along the lines of writing an essay and then taking a break before reviewing it. You often see things more clearly with a pause.
EDIT: I just read Jeremy McDonald's post, which posted about the same time as mine--well said, Jeremy. I think you explained what I was getting at with more detail and eloquence.Umm, thanks.
But I did not get the impression that we are really saying the same thing.
Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant to say that you and I agree on the fact that there has to be a campaign specific reason for the prestige class to exist....an RP purpose. Reading over our posts again, I realize that I didn't make that clear.
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I have a lot of respect for people who go to lots of effort to create alternate classes / races / prestige classes etc for their campaigns. I think the campaigns and the players tend to really benefit from it.
Jeremy, kudos to you for converting your 2nd edition campaign world faithfully to 3rd edition. It was a bit of a difficult choice not to for me, but in the end the amount of time and work it would have taken up front – not to mention further time and effort converting things from Dungeon etc – killed it for me.
Thanks also for posting your variant barbarian class.
I like creating new classes, new races etc, but sometimes I have to ask myself – is this going to benefit my game? And will it be worth the effort? Sure, I could create a Slayer in Darkness PrC, but if Assassin will really do the trick…. Maybe I’ll just change the name.