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Hey all,
So, my players in my heavily-warped version of SCAP travelled to the Elemental Plane of Fire, and came across an efreeti merchant willing to barter wishes.
In exchange for "the whisper of his wings", one of my players wished "to be a young adult copper dragon". He's already a half-copper dragon with 12 class levels (ECL 15).
So, what's the best way to handle this without being game breaking? The guy got a wish, so he should benefit in some way, but I'm not sure what isn't game-breaking, and could use some advice.
a) Permanently 'alternate form' him into a Juvenile Copper Dragon (medium, same HD as him roughly), but he doesn't get many effects of the new shape, and loses many benefits of the old - seems a little mean. I could twist his wording into saying how old are you now? Young adult? Good enough - have a smaller dragon size.
b) Tell him to rebuild his character as a young adult copper dragon - ECL 23ish, so he loses all 12 levels of classes, and doesn't advance for the rest of the campaign.
c) Polymorph him permanently.
d) Wild shape him permanently.
e) Something else?
As well, what would you make "the whisper of his wings"? Reduce his maneuverability? Give him a -10 to Move Silently from now on? Something else? I've got an idea of what I'd do, but I'm curious what other evil DMs out there would think of.
Thanks!
Hm . . . how about his wings are paralysed, but he gains the ability to transform into a dragon once per day, as per the new polymorph subschool rules on the subject, i.e. he gets a hit point boost, and the physical stats, attacks, etc, but not spellcasting or supernatural abilities of the dragon in question.
If you model this after the Dragonshape spell, it would last for one round per level. It would be a bit powerful, since you are essentially giving a 9th level spell ability once per day with what is, essentially a 9th level spell ability. As a possible fix, instead of counting his character level as his caster level, you could consider it at 1/2 his character level (especially due to his half dragon nature).
I know the paralysed wings thing sounds harsh, but it would be a pretty powerful ability to gain for no sacrifice, and he did use that to pay for the wish. The efreet could gain a bonus to movement while flying equal to the character's flight speed, if you ever needed to model some benefit for the merchant.
This is one of those situations where the cool factor of doing something does not equate to game balance. Unfortunately, unless you don't care about power levels or the mechanics of the game this decision will cause you problems.
When PCs wish for stuff like this I just copy an existing spell from the PHB. For this example, it would be a high-level transmutation spell. This generally means none of the effects are permanent. The "whisper of your wings" is another matter entirely, since poetic/literary cost-based wishes like this aren't the norm in an RPG (which is why there aren't any rules for them).
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I agree -- with some time to think, and the input I've gotten from the internet and my various books, I've come up with a game balance solution, but I shant post the details until my internet-savvy players get to experience my decision firsthand.
Incidentally, Polymorph Any Object (sor/wiz 8) would permanently change a half-dragon to a dragon - not gaining every ability, but it's a feasable change.
It's not an unreasonable wish from a character standpoint -- what half-dragon wouldn't dream of fully experiencing his heritage? But it can be game breaking. Of course, since they are wishing for something outside the safe bounds of the wish definition, it should be subtly twisted without ruining the long-running campaign for the player.
I posted my same question to ENWorld, and I got a resounding "nail the player to the wall for daring to wish for something to power-gaming from an evil creature". I understand the sentiment, but I'm not looking to ruin someone's game. I'm not about to let them break the game with an ECL 24-26 monster with a potential 12 class levels either.
"Whisper of your wings" -- I'm interested to hear what other DM's might make the price of this ...
Well, what you could do... I interpret "the whisper of my wings" to be the ability of flight. So, he's gonna lose his ability to fly to become a full-on copper dragon. I'd make the source of the flight loss be a kind of diseased rot in his wings, rendering them useless and hideous. You could give him a Charisma penalty, maybe add an undead-style template to him, or make him a plague-bearer that becomes hunted. He could become feared and loathed by even his own kind for fear they may contract the contagion. Perhaps they actively seek to eliminate the aberration. Something like that.
So, you been talkin to my cousin - twice removed on my mother side, hehe, he loves that guise as a merchant to fool young adventures into foolishness and evildom; yep, pleanty good at it he is; but ask yourself; what are you really after here. do you really have an objection to the pc playing a young, adult copper dragon? Keep in mind that pc's are pretty much the scariest and toughest monsters out there so the request in it self is quite limiting. And just because you are a copper dragon; doesnt mean you know how to be a copper dragon or know copper dragon lore or know how to use copper dragon traits and stuff as it could be argued that that is all learned - though over a few centuries you might be able to figure it out on your own. Now the soul of the matter, pardon me if that is to tender for yer ears, is that your asking a fairly spiteful and evil being to turn you into another being of power for the side of good - me thinks this is a problem - and for dubious return or profit. Now knowing my race, and my cousin as I do, and the fact that them Djinii have spread all kind of vicious but true rumors about how my race cannot be trusted to fulfill a wish without twisting it into something horrible to behold; well, I think you should let the fool pc be turned into a young copper dragon; in time he can use to learn his extra ordinary abilities like any other dragon; course they dont learn to quickly, and he will never level again of course as dragons gain power through aging; a long, long, long process as you mortal count it; yep; he wont know how to talk in his new form; suppose he could learn that too though he might breath weapon a few hundred people to death by accident trying to learn and hold a conversation, probably be powerful hungry so might eat up a few horses or something; well, then like most lizards sleep it off for a month or so. Adventually his freinds will wanna ride him; very dishonorable; they will grow in power and leave him behind; heck, there is no reason he would keep his personality or experience; they might not survive the process; he just asked to BE a dragon and wasnt to specific about it; be hard for him to use gear; travel; he would scare everybody; going into town would be a disaster; heh their are reasons that dragons live in caves all alone or among their own kind; yep, let him leash himself i say; power has its rewards; but often many, many drawbacks.
oh yeah, maybe he will be a deformed young copper dragon; maybe he will be nueter, all kinds of thing can go wrong; and pc tend to hunt dragons for treasure; hmm, an adventuring dragon prolly has all kinds of treasure and the power need to horde stuff; sound like npc adventures will want to be investigating this. yep, wish upon a star; then watch it fall and burn :)
It's not an unreasonable wish from a character standpoint -- what half-dragon wouldn't dream of fully experiencing his heritage? But it can be game breaking. Of course, since they are wishing for something outside the safe bounds of the wish definition, it should be subtly twisted without ruining the long-running campaign for the player.It is the job of the gm to harshly twist any wish from a evil being, especially from an evil Djinn. Their is not safe bounds; feel free to any any not wished for things to add to his wish as he did not specify things not to add anything else; heck; he could also be 6" long toy young adult copper dragon; one persons perception is not another; still a dragon sure, but hehe cute. I feel you must grant the letter of the wish, yet you must subvert it to the best of your ability, but also, allow some way through a quest or something for the pc to undo or allieviate the curse; and yes; treat it like a curse. Or maybe give it limited charges; like he get a rod copper that is 8 inches long or something; and every time he eats an inch of it; it turns him into an npc copper dragon named Fred who didnt like being distrubed from his nap thank you very little, and is now stuck here with the party for an hour until the revert change comes back. What I am trying to say is that you should have fun with this, the request was foolish; the aid is giving by an evil being and should be granted but in a way that is unfulfilling and the pc should seek to want to have it undone, but not so much as to want to quit playing. Who knows, maybe the aforementioned dragon Fred, has previously pissed off this Efreeti who now has a chance at revenge. Heck, maybe the change is uncontrollable; happens when he gets amorous or hungry, but he changes back into the regular pc whenever mad, angry or threatened. You have so many fun choices with this one; make it a fun learning experience that pc will laugh about for years.
You can also do this, with this wish, he did not specify WHEN he wanted to be a copper dragon, you can slowly turn him into one, As in, you can adjust his stats, cause things to happen at in opertune times, since he has no experience with a dragon shape, other than his half dragon nature.
And since he gave up his wings, he'd be grounded and unable to fly as it were, the whisper of his wings, I would think would constitute that. Your the GM though.
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Logic dictates that while he wished that he would become a dragon, he never specified "permenetly". Perhaps give him his dragon body, but at the most in-opportune time, change him back. Yeah, you could call it things like cruel and underhanded. That is because you are a meatbag, and hence, naturally flawed.
The efreeti doesn't have to do what he wants, only do what he says. How about he's a copper dragon for a day, as polymorph, but then it wears off and he has to go hunt down the efreet to get his money back?
hehe, better yet; the delusion that he is a copper dragon, he sees himself as one; believes he can fly, claw, tail slap and has a breath weapon and he sees these as real, but nobody else does; everyone else thinks he is quiet mad; hehe; would be a real hoot if the player would play it.
It occurs to me that a copper dragon might resemble a green if he were too oxidized. .. . .Making him a target of those who would not believe him to be seriously not a threat. I like the time limit idea and the slow change idea. Of course, you could reverse the advancement rules in the DM's guide and make him a level equivalent dragon, with the same CR as his character. He looks big and tough, but isn't.
If one of my players worded a wish like that, I would have turned them into a copper dragon statue. My players have learned to be very careful when wording a wish with me.
another option would have been to turn them into a hatchling.