Oh, no. I didn't know somebody had it all figured out.
That revised days of the week list was a figment of your imagination. Clearly you're suffering from RPG related delusions. Got a god sized hole in ya, boy.
Gah, my head is about to explode.
And that is how I know I've done my job.
It makes me sad when we go from one extreem to another. I apologize for potentially being a bit too reactionary in my original post in this thread, as this kind of snowballed from the original story, and landed, as this often does, in D&D players taling about how backwards Christians are and how organized religion is against them.
I've said this many times, but it bears repeating. Yes, there were a lot of vocal pastors and lay people of various churches speaking out against D&D, but there were also a lot of psychologist waiting to push their latest theories that jumped on the band wagon as well, the same ones that told us we were going to be serial killers for watching all those "acts of violence" in Transformers and G.I. Joe and He-Man when we were young.
I can't think of a major denomination that has adopted a formal position on Dungeons and Dragons. If I am wrong, I am actually very interested to hear about it, as I would like to do the research on what that denomination has said. I myself am Roman Catholic, and I know that their hasn't been any Papal Encyclicals that pertain to role playing games.
I also understand that between the media and the loud, vocal, "we can find a camera whenever we want to" minority, its easy to get the wrong picture of Christians as a whole. Pastor Jim from Jimbo's Storefront Church can say anything he wants, since there are only a handful of churches that belong to his "denomination." Jerry Falwell gets a lot of air time, but in the end, he only speaks for his personal "flock," and I cannot think of any denominations that share his veiw of, say, Tinky Winky from the Teletubbies. Similarly, Pat Robertson, the paragon of the worst Christian stereotypes imaginable, has his own TV show from which to spew his venom, but his views really only account for his particular organization (keep in mind, this is a man that also called for Hugo Chavez's assasination and basically said, "serves them right," when referring to the Abuse Scandal in the Catholic Church, since we "papists" didn't share his brand of Christianity . . . neither of these things remind me of anything in Christ's teachings).
Thankfully, I live in a Europe, and in one of the most liberal minded countries the world has ever seen; the Netherlands. I have not ONCE, gotten a comment beyond; "Oh you play D&D, that dice-rolling game, right? With elves and stuff?"
Never have I seen organized religion rally against us, my grandmother is a devout catholic and agrees with this. Even the archbishop has stated that 'the church is not in the habit of banning harmless games'. That and it seems that extremist Muslims and imams pose a bigger problem...
PS: Mind you, having a prime minister that looks like Harry Potter, signs HP books in parliament for kids and generally enjoys it is a good sign for us. ;)
As a fellow countryman I wholeheartedly agree!
http://www.pawcreek.org/articles/endtimes/HarryPotterAndTheAntichrist.htm
This is really sad to read.
It is the typical stuff cobbled together by alarmists and conspiration theorists: quoting out of context, citing dubious sources (his own daughter is surely not an independent source). Seeing only what he wants to see. And only his peculiar brand of christianity is the "truth", as opposed to, among other things, imagination.Could these narrow-minded people not leave christianity well enough alone ? The ideas of christianity are so much more than what these people are able to see. And they complain that nobody listens to them and their "truth" - small wonder...
Stefan
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This whole conversation is sticky and touchy to discuss.
I feel that it really boils down to "a few bad apples" on both sides.
Some freak with some sword makes a scene and D&D is mentioned. Suddenly, the masses feel that D&D is a cult of mind controlled sword wielding nut cases that hide in their basements and roll dice most of their lives.
Some arrogant preacher gets to the podium and says how D&D (or Harry Potter, or Tinky Winky, or Spongebob, or whatever) is evil. Suddenly the church (or all christians or all religious affiliations) are carrying around pitchforks and gathered in mobs searching out people's homes for the slightest sign of anything deviant from "reality" and looking for a witch hunt.
I really think that the truth is far different that what is percieved. Most of us D&D players that grew up playing in the 80's had to deal with all the Anti-TSR that was happening -- largely due to a few suicides that "experts" publicly linked to D&D. Even though we knew that there wasn't anything "wrong" or evil with the game, it became an incredibly taboo subject -- and many of us are still nervous about mentioning it in public -- especially in a church. The truth is (that I have found out), is that most people in church now, don't know about it, and really don't care. Of course there are a few wierdos out there that still cling to their warped perceptions -- but isn't that true about most things.
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Since this thread seems to have taken a religious turn, I'll add my two cents. For the Roman Catholic side, our new Pope has made a statement regarding Harry Potter and the trend in pop culture towards fantasy. Paraphrasing, he asserted that there is no evil inherent in those kinds of stories, and that the creative tales should be enjoyed as the author intended them. I would expect the same follows for fantasy role-playing, where the keys are cooperation, fun, and imagination.
I won't deny that there are some people in religious communities that still hold a very negative view of D&D. This is no longer the official position by any church, that I am aware of. As our community grows and old misconceptions fade, this is starting to change for the best.
D&D is my favorite hobby, and I tell people as much. Some people look at me strangely, some make jokes. That makes no difference to me, because they've only heard bits and pieces of negative opinions.
I'm reminded of two prayers;
Lord, grant me the strength to change the things I can, the serenity to accept the things I cannot, and the wisdom to know the difference.
And an Irish-derived blessing,
May the sun ever shine on your path, and the wind always be at your back. And may the good Lord turn the hearts of your enemies, but if not their hearts, then their ankles, so we'll know them by their limping!
It makes me sad when we go from one extreem to another. I apologize for potentially being a bit too reactionary in my original post in this thread, as this kind of snowballed from the original story, and landed, as this often does, in D&D players taling about how backwards Christians are and how organized religion is against them.
I'm sorry you got vibed out, Knight. :\ I, personally, was certainly never talking about Christians or Christian values as a whole. I wouldn't want to obscure the actual issue some of use were talking about by suggesting Papal Encyclicals though. That's speaking to a point that I, for one, wasn't making. We're talking about more than just televangelists who take pop culture on as enemy and get some what-will-they-hate-next type press. We're talking about certain churches that absolutely pressure their flock to condemn and fear D&D, Ozzy, biblical satire, magic in any form. These churches are not just in small American towns in the bible belt. They're in Long Island, NY and Boston, Ma as well. Guess it depends on your particular church leader.
As for those psychiatrists who push their anti-D&D studies... Although having shrinks in the family, I've always thought psychiatry wasn't much of a science (requiring proveable results); more, the art of labeling personal flaws. They're pretty good at it too. Guess it has its uses.
The Jade: co-dependant pathological narcissist, water, sugar, young coconut pulp, sodium metabisulphate (for color retention)
Neither of these professions are able to perfectly nail us down and know what is inside us, though... and they're making fools of themselves with some of their generalizations. We, the sociopathic delusional misanthropic neck-hacking dynamic/agressive types, who are going to fiery hell, are the ones who have to deal with all this hurtful BS. And so we b@+%+ about it because it stings.
There's a lot of people out there telling us they know better than we do. If you want to tell me you know better than I do you have to prove it and then maintain my respect, otherwise I might just start making my own decisions.
Thankfully, I live in a Europe...
Never have I seen organized religion rally against us, my grandmother is a devout catholic and agrees with this. Even the archbishop has stated that 'the church is not in the habit of banning harmless games'. That and it seems that extremist Muslims and imams pose a bigger problem...
As far as I've seen, church condemnation of D&D seems to be more of a sporadic practice in the US. If someone out there wants to correct me, I always want to learn.
I, too, want to say that I wasn't attacking Christianity in general, but rather, these deluded fanatics that are actually farther from the core essence of the religion than the supposed heathens they condemn. It isn't just gamers getting defensive, either. As I pointed out, there are children being raised in such communities that are learning only fear and hatred, and that imagination and originality is bad. Religion becomes, as I said, a bladed crutch for these people. Its this type of fanaticism that has caused a great deal of the evil in this world, no matter whose name they're shouting. Unfortunately, one cannot "combat" it or argue with it, because it truly is a form of insanity. Anything you could ever say would simply be twisted to fit into their warped world. All that can be done is try and educate those that aren't too far gone, and hope that some day that type of madness will evaporate.
As a young kid (oh so many years ago), when I first started playing RPGs I was seeing a therapist. My Mom, on hearing all this D&D noise (back in the 80's when it was the big rage to bash it) asked him if he thought it was ok. So he asked me some questions.
Therapist-"What kind of characters do you play?"
little me- "Fighters, wizards, stuff like that."
Therapist- "And do you cast spells in real life?"
little me- "Uhh... It's a game. You know that right?"
After that he laughed and dropped it. He said as long as I have a firm grip on reality and enjoy it then no problem. She asked the Rabbi too. I lucked out because the Rabbi's wife was a member of the SCA. He turned and asked me if I was in a good playing group and if I wanted to join one.
It all boils down to your grasp on reality. As many schizoid personailities are attracted to D&D as they are religious figures. So, if they can't handle reality they'll escape the easiest way they can. Whether it's wrestling, D&D, Jesus or what have you, nothing will stop it. Stop pushing blame and work on the cause, not the symptom.
This has been a really fun read! Thanks!
To add my own comment on where this thread has headed, D&D is really not a healthy game for someone with a tenuous grip on reality. There's too many stories about such people taking the game to strange and disturbing extremes. What makes it fun is how it can take us somewhere else in our minds and allow us to lose our inhibitions about expressing our Ids (I think I'm using the right term, at least) for a while. A normally balanced person can disengage from that and go back to the "real world", but those with a loose grip on that part of thier personalities have difficulty with it.
You could say that any hobby can tweak a person out. I don't think that's true. Playing baseball or most other sports is mostly a physical exercise. Chess is mainly a cerebral thing. Stamp collecting is just that, collecing stuff. Role-playing games opens up aspects of a person's personality that other hobbies simply don't do.
So, while I'm not siding with anti-D&D proponents, there is some amount of responsibility we as gamers have to take. When I screen for new players in my home game I really look for stable personalities first and foremost then move on to the rest of my newbie criteria. But sometimes the cookoos get in. I won't detail all of my experiences with the unstable personalities I've gamed with because I think we've all had our experiences, and in fact you might be thinking of one or two players right now. You know who they are.
Also, I'm glad to see that someone put the breaks on the church bashing that this was starting to devolve into. If we start complaining about "organized religon" as the antagonists we're no better than the close minded types that stereotype us gamers as being all computer geeks that can't get a date and live with our Mom & Pop at age 35 and secretly worship Satan and cast spells. There are a few specific churches or religious-minded groups out there that condemn D&D as satanic, but I think the vast majority of Christianity simply don't really care whether we play D&D or not having bigger fish to fry like stopping the legalization of marijuana, gay marriages, anti-Christian legislature, etc.
You could say that any hobby can tweak a person out. I don't think that's true. Playing baseball or most other sports is mostly a physical exercise. Chess is mainly a cerebral thing. Stamp collecting is just that, collecing stuff. Role-playing games opens up aspects of a person's personality that other hobbies simply don't do.So, while I'm not siding with anti-D&D proponents, there is some amount of responsibility we as gamers have to take. When I screen for new players in my home game I really look for stable personalities first and foremost then move on to the rest of my newbie criteria. But sometimes the cookoos get in. I won't detail all of my experiences with the unstable personalities I've gamed with because I think we've all had our experiences, and in fact you might be thinking of one or two players right now. You know who they are.
One of the businesses I own is a pet sitting service and I can tell you than when I put out a help wanted ad it doesn't take a hobby or religious zeal to bring out the crazies. So many who show up to interview feel they have a Beastmaster type relationship with animals. Not simply that they speak dog and cat, because after enough time with animals you kind of get the knack for reading their signals; rather, they think they have metaphysical communion. That usually goes away the first time they get chomped in the face.
Me: "I told you not to do that."
I'd also say that my friends who aren't into fantasy (imagine?!) seem far more mistified than those who enjoyed LoTR.
How can anyone blame D&D? I don't see any mention of him checking for treasure....
Oh, if anyone wants me, I'll be going to hell now, along with Bill Maher.
How can anyone blame D&D? I don't see any mention of him checking for treasure....
He wouldn't have looted... he's a paladin.
Begin Rant
Okay,
RK Milholland pretty well sums up the psycho Christians (done quite well, IMO) and their delusions here:
http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp10042006.shtml Read through until the comic after the police (or http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp10192006.shtml if you're impatient), mind you it is offensive to some viewers, and SHOULD BE. I was offended by the set, more so after I looked up the subject and found it to be true. Mind you, there are some GREAT Christians out there (I know, I've met them), but the few that spew their filth (read: NOT Jesus' teachings) out there are so vocal that nobody wants to deal with them, and thus all Christianity gets the blame (I did the blame everyone for a bit... it was too much work hating everyone or I grew up, can't remember which).
Sexi Golem:
I've heard the Harry Potter is the Antichrist argument before, but the link you posted takes the cake. I don't like Harry Potter (although it's amusing, I just don't like him), but that DOES NOT give them or anyone else so inclined the right to spew the filth in that link, THAT is vile and evil.
The one thought about all of this is that if we, as a gaming communitiy, strike back, they have won. Why? Then we are evil Satanists who are heck bent on destroying Christianity (or their warped view of it). The best ways I can sum it up are these (btw if anyone knows who the first quote is from, let me know please):
"An eye for an eye soon leaves everyone blind."
"Among life’s perpetually charming questions is whether the truly evil do more harm than the self-righteous and wrong."
-John Margolis
/rant
On to the news topic
GO SAMURAI! No, seriously, GO SAMURAI. The guy was delusional, and I feel no pity for him. Was he nuts, yep, but most people willing to kill are. What makes this case special is the reiteration of "He played D&D" versus "he had serious mental instabilities." One of the two is valid, and if his group had any sense at all they would have thrown him out.
I've done it, and if I were out of line I'd expect to be thrown out of the game, permanently if I offered no apology. Why, the game is about having fun. It is a sad thing when society is trying to breed a subtle hatred/bias against something that is a hobby. Is it a wierd hobby? Versus what? Following football? Baseball? Hockey? Sculpture? Read? Draw? Write? Think? Breathe? (I do all, and there are people in them that scare me... a lot)
What is Media construed as the male "Normal" is going to work, being miserable, going home to argue with the spouse and spoil the kids, being in debt up to your eyeballs, and hoping that your sports team is the one that's going to win the big game this year, and of course playing poker one night with the guys.
The female "normal" is a working professional who delights in depriving their spouses of much-needed attention while fawning over someone younger. Following this up with a deep loathing of all "male" hobbies, especially the sports & poker.
Creativity, imagination, intelligence, and REAL love have seemed to fall by the wayside in all of these, meaning that the Media sees no money in it (at least not as much as the other debauchery).
So, of course, this poor sop with other mental problems will be the exact ammo some will need to prove that D&D is "satan's game." My only defense to them will be "Hey, where's the Mountain Dew?"
/d
Well said my Leige . . . wait, I don't have to call you that again until next Tuesday . . .
Darkmeer, to answer your last question... It's right next to the Cheetos :)
Darkmeer, to answer your last question... It's right next to the Cheetos :)
LOL!
Well I have met quite a few people of various faiths (Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Baha'i) and my impression is this: most are decent, welcoming, kind people. Some are a bit preachy at times but hey I'm comfortable being a D&D playing, Star Trek watching, science and evolution supporting, decent and moral agnostic atheist, and all of them are comfortable with it as well. EVERY group has it's psychopaths and doomcriers, but the vast majority are reasonable and decent individuals (well maybe majority rather than vast majority in some cases but still a majority.) I know that I can't be swayed when I believe in something, and that others can be just as polite but unyielding. Brush off the preachy, nutty or violent ones and enjoy being around the normal ones.
Live long and prosper. Peace and long life. \\//.
I once saw this movie where this guy (Robert Dinero), was so obssessed with baseball, he murdered one player, stabbed him in the leg, watched him bleed to death and die. It was a powerful and wicked scene. This guy (Robert Dinero), was really angree at this player for not playing well enough. Never new the player personally, did not lose fortun3 on a game, the guy just was not playing well, and this guy murdered him.
My point is no one blames baseball for this, the guy was a nut, a baseball fanatic. This guy's obssession with baseball and delusions drove his warped behavior, causing him to murder. Such as our D&D fanatic who murdered his co-worker for teasing his D&D obsession. Is it fair to mention his obssession with D&D? yes. Why because his dangerous obssession with D&D drove his delusions. Is D&D the reason for this guy going crazy and commiting murder? No. His obssession and delusions are symptoms of a broken mind.
Of course this is all assumption as I am not a psychologist.
I just see no reason to get my feathers all ruffled up cause some D&D obssessed pscho killed some one, just because I play D&D. I just get sad.
On a different note, I found the stuff on History channel about vampires very entertaining. The stuff about the Romainian duchess bathing in the blood of virgin young women disturbing and plan horrorifing. I like the History channel,I got two now. Gosh I am such a dork.
I think the man acted accordingly. I mean, I heard the voices tell him to do it!
Damn it!! The voices in my head always tell me not to do such things. I would have way more fun if it weren't for those voices. (The voices say I would also end back in jail if it weren't for them)
I As I pointed out, there are children being raised in such communities that are learning only fear and hatred, and that imagination and originality is bad.
Sad so sad. But it is so hard to control thought when people use thier imagination and originality.
Religion becomes, as I said, a bladed crutch for these people.
Your religioun hating tyrade will not change my mind, young one. Religion has changed a number of lives for the better. Better a bible than a gun. Better a preacher, than a gangster
Its this type of fanaticism that has caused a great deal of the evil in this world, no matter whose name they're shouting.
Allah, Christ, Fake Healer, Erythnul or D&D, fanatacism is just sad.
So sad. Buddha is crying.
When you think about it, D&D IS a strange hobby in our society. THe People who play are of above average intelligence, doing something that is using the purest form of imagination, cunning and teamwork. In society they pay some big Roid Monkey millions of dollars for throwing a ball really hard That is strange! What do you mean this game is on paper? Where is the Controller?Remember, mindlessness is the norm, conformity is the rule, society is little more than apes with laptops.
Yeah, using our imaginations like Savages! But to counterpoint, I've met some DUMB kids playing this game. Scum of the earth kinda people without a sense of imagination or deoderant. One in particular I see almost every time I go to my comic book shop I've seen yell at little mexican kids telling them that English and German are the only languages worth learning. Everyone hates him.
Religion becomes, as I said, a bladed crutch for these people.Your religioun hating tyrade will not change my mind, young one. Religion has changed a number of lives for the better. Better a bible than a gun. Better a preacher, than a gangster
When did I say I hated religion? I do not. I realized that my first post might be miscronstrued as that, so I posted again to clarify that I do not hate religion. Just blind fanatics, of anything for that matter. It doesn't matter if the name they're shouting is Jesus, God, or Marduk, or the President or Founding Fathers, or whatever. Those people are dangerous. Just like any psychotic person is.
Did I say that's what religion was? No. I said that for these fanatics, they lean on it like a crutch to support their insanity, and then use it as a weapon to attack others. That isn't what religion is supposed to be about.
I was raised Presbyterian. I no longer subscribe to that faith, or any formally defined system. I do have a deep faith, though purposefully left unstructred, and some of the best people I have ever met have been devout Christians. Then again, some of the craziest were also devout. People cover a wide spectrum, no matter what criterion are used to look at them.
I don't want to seem too defensive here, but I was said to be hating religion, and that is not the truth at all.
THAT SAID, I will mention that I am cautious around organized religion, just because of its potential for abuse and historical track record. Is that somewhat prejudicial of me? Yes, and I'm trying to learn to approach it with a more open mind, but reading European history and the role of the church in it doesn't help!
I'm not religious, per se, but I do worship potatos. If any of you have a problem with that I will scoopy up my banner and steely spatula and crusade on your ass.
"RIDE, TATERLYTES! RIDE!"
The one thing I'll boast is that our communion wafers--thinly sliced, covered in dill and celery seed, and fried golden brown in a little oil--taste much better than the church's.
Other than that we don't have a good book so much as a decent recipe book... but if at the end of the day we're all spiritually sated enough to love thy annoying neighbor, what's the harm?
I'm not religious, per se, but I do worship potatos. If any of you have a problem with that I will scoopy up my banner and steely spatula and crusade on your ass.
"RIDE, TATERLYTES! RIDE!"
The one thing I'll boast is that our communion wafers--thinly sliced, covered in dill and celery seed, and fried golden brown in a little oil--taste much better than the church's.
Does that come with Vodka instead of wine?
I don't want to seem too defensive here, but I was said to be hating religion, and that is not the truth at all.
I appologize for picking on you. I just wanted to stir the pot.
Sorry
THAT SAID, I will mention that I am cautious around organized religion, just because of its potential for abuse and historical track record. Is that somewhat prejudicial of me? Yes, and I'm trying to learn to approach it with a more open mind, but reading European history and the role of the church in it doesn't help!
Puritan Missionaries Had a huge impact on Hawaiian History. They came to save our souls and spread the message of forgiveness in christ. The ended up controling the wealth, land, politics, printing presses and the morals and ethics of the tiny island kingdom of Hawaii.
Yet personally, I have seen some people turn thier lives arround because of religion. I just get tired of intellectuals bashing religion.
Anyway, mostly I write the things I do just to get a debate going. I like being the devil's advocate. I didn't mean to attack you personally
Sorry.
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Loosely related... I was in my FLGS the other day, and started talking to the guy that owns it. He told me about this Mormon kid who started playing a few years ago, and had really awful grades in school. His parents told him he could only keep playing DnD if he brought his grades up...before you know it, B+ average. Interested, his parents looked at his books, and were surprised to find no aura of evil ((Su) Mormon ability). Still, some elders in his church were concerned, so they came by and learned about the game. There is now a group of Mormon elders that meet regularly to play DnD...
Does that come with Vodka instead of wine?
Wybarova in every chalice!
As for my Hawaiian peer's comment a few posts up, I didn't see religion bashing happening here so much as zealot bashing.
And the minute a society starts believing that intellectuals are the enemy, history suggests a barbarian state is soon to follow.
Loosely related... I was in my FLGS the other day, and started talking to the guy that owns it. He told me about this Mormon kid who started playing a few years ago, and had really awful grades in school. His parents told him he could only keep playing DnD if he brought his grades up...before you know it, B+ average. Interested, his parents looked at his books, and were surprised to find no aura of evil ((Su) Mormon ability). Still, some elders in his church were concerned, so they came by and learned about the game. There is now a group of Mormon elders that meet regularly to play DnD...
THAT is awesome!
Sir Kaikillah- It's all good. No worries. :)
Still, some elders in his church were concerned, so they came by and learned about the game. There is now a group of Mormon elders that meet regularly to play DnD...
What Saern said.
Loosely related... I was in my FLGS the other day, and started talking to the guy that owns it. He told me about this Mormon kid who started playing a few years ago, and had really awful grades in school. His parents told him he could only keep playing DnD if he brought his grades up...before you know it, B+ average. Interested, his parents looked at his books, and were surprised to find no aura of evil ((Su) Mormon ability). Still, some elders in his church were concerned, so they came by and learned about the game. There is now a group of Mormon elders that meet regularly to play DnD...
That's really cool!
Awesomely cool. I wonder what their campaign is like?
Wow, this thread got off topic. From talking about a dude killing a dude and his hobbies being overly mentioned to the point that you think they're pretty much blaming them to having to deal with jesus freaks. Cool.
Loosely related... I was in my FLGS the other day, and started talking to the guy that owns it. He told me about this Mormon kid who started playing a few years ago, and had really awful grades in school. His parents told him he could only keep playing DnD if he brought his grades up...before you know it, B+ average. Interested, his parents looked at his books, and were surprised to find no aura of evil ((Su) Mormon ability). Still, some elders in his church were concerned, so they came by and learned about the game. There is now a group of Mormon elders that meet regularly to play DnD...
Mormon Elders that play D&D? Uhm, that's not really that strange. We just don't advertise. I happen to be one myself. Yep. Returned missionary and everything. Did I mention I write D&D stuff, too? Oh, and if your curious about what kind of game a Mormon Elder plays in/runs you can simply check out my campaign journal on these boards - From Sasserine to the Abyss: The Savage Tide
Now back to your regularly scheduled philosophical/religious banter...
Loosely related... I was in my FLGS the other day, and started talking to the guy that owns it. He told me about this Mormon kid who started playing a few years ago, and had really awful grades in school. His parents told him he could only keep playing DnD if he brought his grades up...before you know it, B+ average. Interested, his parents looked at his books, and were surprised to find no aura of evil ((Su) Mormon ability). Still, some elders in his church were concerned, so they came by and learned about the game. There is now a group of Mormon elders that meet regularly to play DnD...
Mormon Elders that play D&D? Uhm, that's not really that strange. We just don't advertise. I happen to be one myself. Yep. Returned missionary and everything. Did I mention I write D&D stuff, too? Oh, and if your curious about what kind of game a Mormon Elder plays in/runs you can simply check out my campaign journal on these boards - From Sasserine to the Abyss: The Savage Tide
Now back to your regularly scheduled philosophical/religious banter...
Hm, why is the name Tracy Hickman popping into my mind?
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Mormon Elders that play D&D? Uhm, that's not really that strange. We just don't advertise.
I'm not saying its *that* strange -- in fact, one of the first people to introduce me to DnD was a Mormon friend of mine. I just thought it was a nice story to counteract the "religion = close-minded hatred of DnD" vibe... If I've learned anything in my short tenure as a gamer, it's that there's an incredible amount of diversity in the people that play...and illithids are not good pets. Lillithids, on the other hand...(j/k)
Steve Greer, missionary and mormon elder? That's pretty exciting. What was your assignment? Where did you go?
Obviously this post has become offensive to some kind hearted religious folk and perhaps those of us who were talking about the types of institutionalized bias that sometimes affect our hobby should have been more declarative and respectful from the beginning. I apologize for my part in the vagueness but the more we try to explain our intentions the more foot goes into our mouthes.
I guess we're just afraid of the danger involved when a church leader (thus the accidental overuse of the dreaded phrase 'organized religion') can tell sixty parishioners that D&D is against the common good and then said sixty, grandmothers and teachers themselves, actually develop a fear, sight unseen, of dodecahedrons. I was told last week by a friend that he stopped going to church back in the 80's when a priest publically read him down over his Ozzy shirt and his earring. He made a sincere attempt to explain his position but the priest took on a righteous and smarmy tone. Clearly that just wasn't the best priest, but that story was fresh in my mind when I posted earlier.
Steve Greer, missionary and mormon elder.
Is it me or does this sound like a prestige class?
Steve Greer, missionary and mormon elder.Is it me or does this sound like a prestige class?
lol. Well Stevey boy has the charisma to pull it off but don't give him any more prestige than he's already earned or his head'll burst all over you like a Cronenberg film--like a Gallagher show but substitute the hammered watermelon with brains.
Awesome, Steve!!! I have firsthand knowledge of how Steve Greer runs his game and it is a heck of an experience for his players. He's very theatrical and dramatic and makes full use of miniatures, sound effects, etc.
I only got to play with him and his great group for a few hours last June, but it was a great experience I hope to repeat.
I hope bringing the alcohol to the game didn't offend you, Steve. I appreciate you sampling it. You're a gentleman and your entire gaming group is a class act, for sure.
Awesome, Steve!!! I have firsthand knowledge of how Steve Greer runs his game and it is a heck of an experience for his players. He's very theatrical and dramatic and makes full use of miniatures, sound effects, etc.
I only got to play with him and his great group for a few hours last June, but it was a great experience I hope to repeat.
I hope bringing the alcohol to the game didn't offend you, Steve. I appreciate you sampling it. You're a gentleman and your entire gaming group is a class act, for sure.
Didn't you sit on one of his figgies that session?
Prestige class, indeed ;) Jade, I served in Jamaica from 89-91. Pretty cool experience and some of the nicest folks you'll ever meet.
As for Stefan's home brewed mead, I took a sip and when he wasn't looking poured the rest into one my of gamer's glasses that is a drinker. It was very delicious, though. And he left us with a couple more bottles that should be just ripe enough for my drinker friends to crack open tomorrow.
Yeah, Stefan failed a Dex check near my dragon minis and knocked over one of em' The wing broke off, but I cast a make whole spell on it the next day (read: super glue).
Big head? Me? Nah, I have my wife to keep that from happening. And if she ever slacks off I have my 1 yeard old daughter to keep me grounded.
Sorry to have taken this so far off topic.
Big head? Me? Nah, I have my wife to keep that from happening. And if she ever slacks off I have my 1 yeard old daughter to keep me grounded.
Sorry to have taken this so far off topic.
I wasn't saying you had one... just that you've enough accomplishments under your belt to deserve one. ;) Well, I'd be susceptible anyway.
Jamaica. *sigh* I need a vacation.
Yep, I understood. It just ain't gonna happen. I tried getting a big head when I got printed in #121 and my wife nipped that in the bud real quick. But at the same time, she went and had the issue framed for my birthday. Ah... wifes. Good to have around to keep you humble (and puzzled).