I've read the entry for the spell mage armor- mostly to investigate the usefullness of a Ring of Mage Armor, and I come to find that it say nothing to the effect of it NOT stacking with armor. Is this so? If so then the line my players have been feeding me, that yes of course it stacks with a Monk's AC bonus, but no it doesn't stack with armor is bull.
I do need to know this, and preferably as soon as possible.
I do realize the spell is geared towards defending those without armor, but apparently there is no reason why an npc cleric couldn't wear a ring of mage armor to boost his ac (especially if he were to say...drop the quickdon/quick release armor revealing a monk's belt).
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I've read the entry for the spell mage armor- mostly to investigate the usefullness of a Ring of Mage Armor, and I come to find that it say nothing to the effect of it NOT stacking with armor. Is this so? If so then the line my players have been feeding me, that yes of course it stacks with a Monk's AC bonus, but no it doesn't stack with armor is bull.
I do need to know this, and preferably as soon as possible.
I do realize the spell is geared towards defending those without armor, but apparently there is no reason why an npc cleric couldn't wear a ring of mage armor to boost his ac (especially if he were to say...drop the quickdon/quick release armor revealing a monk's belt).
Mage Armor provides an "Armor" bonus to your AC. Armor provides an "Armor" bonus to AC. Since they are the same "type" of bonus they overlap rather than stack. Mage Armor is better for a number of reasons -- it is a force effect, no encumberance, etc. But it is the same type of bonus so they do not stack.
Mage Armor provides an "Armor" bonus to your AC. Armor provides an "Armor" bonus to AC. Since they are the same "type" of bonus they overlap rather than stack. Mage Armor is better for a number of reasons -- it is a force effect, no encumberance, etc. But it is the same type of bonus so they do not stack.I've read the entry for the spell mage armor- mostly to investigate the usefullness of a Ring of Mage Armor, and I come to find that it say nothing to the effect of it NOT stacking with armor. Is this so? If so then the line my players have been feeding me, that yes of course it stacks with a Monk's AC bonus, but no it doesn't stack with armor is bull.
I do need to know this, and preferably as soon as possible.
I do realize the spell is geared towards defending those without armor, but apparently there is no reason why an npc cleric couldn't wear a ring of mage armor to boost his ac (especially if he were to say...drop the quickdon/quick release armor revealing a monk's belt).
That's what I thought, I was just reading it wrong. Thank you kindly. They don't stack, but say normally the cleric has AC of 18, but with mage armor and monk's belt, without armor and shield- he'd have 19, so with a +5 AC bonus from armor, then it just wouldn't stack, so an AC of 18 would be an ac of 17 until he took the damn armor off, and quickly it would rise. well shucks...why'd I give him armor?
Now, I'm sure there are ways to increase this cleric's armor class other than by giving him full plate. (for instance Thurkasian Breastplate, the armor he has, has the benefit of being quick don/quick release) Bracer's of Armor for instance (but how would that stack?), vestment of protection and all this babel my PC keeps telling me HIS monk needs...
Though I guess without the mage armor ring, his ac would STILL be 18 and his unarmored bonus, with monk's belt, would be 16. So, still, deceptively high.
I guess, I should just up the NPC's dexterity.
But yeah, even if I do that, I'll still have an neat trick if I throw in a Ring of Mage Armor and he'll have a higher AC unarmored than armored. how wacky that would be.
A very Cleric of Tephaneron thing to do. (his domains are Strength, War, Luck and Chaos)
EDIT: Up'd the cleric's Dex bonus by 1 point, for an AC of 19 Armored and 21 unarmored. If and when the pc's cross paths with him, it'll be a surprise. Additionally, intelligent foes will scoff at him expending a full round action taking off his armor, and an additional standard action doing nothing (but casting Bull's strength as a domain spell)
Btw, can you hastily remove quick release armor any quicker than a full-round action? (a question for anyone who bothered to come back to this thread, thread of stupid question that I already knew the answer too.)
OH, but does the quality of mage armor remain although the AC bonus does not stack? and by this I specifically mean the ability of Mage Armor to prevent Incorporeal creatures from bypasing the ac bonus? I presume yes, the effect remains, though the AC bonus is effectively negated by any use of armor, at least the same AC bonus or greater than that of Mage Armor.
Did I get this right?
My ranger-wizard has a) Dex 17(+3), b) Studded leather +4, c) Ring of Prot. +4, d) Bracers of Armor +2.
1. His AC is 24 = no bonus from Bracers? Flat footed 21, vs. touch 17, vs. incorporeals 13.
2. He casts Mage Armor: His AC remains 24. Flat footed 21, vs. touch 17, vs. incorporeals 17?
Thank you apprenticewizz!
I´ll buy you a mead if ever we shall cross paths =)
AC vs Incorporeals :
10 (base)
+ 3 (dex bonus)
+ 2 (armor bonus from bracers of armor +2)
+ 4 (deflection bonus from ring of protection)
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+19if you cast mage armor :
AC : 24 (nothing changes as your armor bonus from your armor is higher)
Touch AC : 17 (nothing changes)
Flat-footed : 21 (nothing changes as your armor bonus from your armor is higher)AC vs Incorporeals :
10 (base)
+ 3 (dex bonus)
+ 4 (armor bonus from spell mage armor)
+ 4 (deflection bonus from ring of protection)
----
+21
Thanks, this helped me out a lot, too. Certainly cleared up the matter of AC bonuses across the board.
So the bracers of armor +2 get subsumed into the armor classification and the mage armor classification (in that they work as mage armor was used to create them), The Studded Leather (which I presume to be magical?), apparently doesn't apply against incorporeal attacks- as it wouldn't unless given properties to better defend against incorporeal attacks- such as Ghost Touch, but more importantly the bracers DO without Mage Armor being cast, good to know. So if my NPC cleric had Bracers of, Tephaneron willing, +5, then the ring of mage armor would be pointless unless he lost the bracers, but either would be effective against incorporeal attacks.
In otherwords, good idea to get a ring of protection since it applies across the board.
btw Go-lem, that is some mad-crazy AC, what level are you at again?
The quality remains, it's just the bigger of the two that gets used. So yeah, if your fighter for example has mage armor +4 and an armor of +5, he gets a bonus of +5. If for some reason his armor would suddenly disappear his +4 would go in effect if his spell is not cancelled by then.
yes, but the point is, incorporeal attacks would only be deterred by the +4 from mage armor, but NOT the +5 from armor (Assuming that it is not ghost-touch armor).
thanks.
btw Go-lem, that is some mad-crazy AC, what level are you at again?
I was level 10 (r2/w7/cleric1) up until yesterday, but we took on a bigger bite of "this-is-fun...uups!" than we could chew. The wizard we faced (and we really wanted to) was apparently level 17 or higher according to the spells he used.
The confrontation was a tight one and one to remember... The DM later said we got him twice down to 1 and 3 hit points, so with a small amount of luck in damage rolls we would have won (I just love Orb of Force).
But in the end we lost and now I´m back to level 9.
btw Go-lem, that is some mad-crazy AC, what level are you at again?I was level 10 (r2/w7/cleric1) up until yesterday, but we took on a bigger bite of "this-is-fun...uups!" than we could chew. The wizard we faced (and we really wanted to) was apparently level 17 or higher according to the spells he used.
The confrontation was a tight one and one to remember... The DM later said we got him twice down to 1 and 3 hit points, so with a small amount of luck in damage rolls we would have won (I just love Orb of Force).
But in the end we lost and now I´m back to level 9.
nasty.
I'll keep that encounter in mind when I do my group's encounters with people of the spellcaster ability.
In the DMG, you have a chart on "what may or what may not stack", just before magic items, IIRC, with ALL kinds of bonus, all kind of situations : AC, attack, damage, speed, saves...
Thanks! I thought there was something like that somewhere...I'll look it up real quick...and it is on...well, I couldn't find it. Partly because the DMG was not blessed with a Chart Listing, but i looked before the magic items and found nothing of the sort. Now, I could be ill equipped to find it as I must leave soon, but it isn't there as far as I could tell so maybe it is somewhere else? either in the DMG or elsewhere (for instance, I could check the DMG2 for such a chart)
But I did find this in the SRD, which sums up what stacks and what doesn't: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm
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In the DMG, you have a chart on "what may or what may not stack", just before magic items, IIRC, with ALL kinds of bonus, all kind of situations : AC, attack, damage, speed, saves...Thanks! I thought there was something like that somewhere...I'll look it up real quick...and it is on...well, I couldn't find it.
I don't know about a "chart" per se, but page 21 of the DMG v. 3.5 is very specific about the different kinds of bonuses that there are and how they work.
Since the whole calculating armor bonuses drives me batty, look in the menu at DM Tools and check out the AC Calculator. It opens up in a smaller window, so you can work on other things while using it. :)
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apparently there is no reason why an npc cleric couldn't wear a ring of mage armor to boost his ac (especially if he were to say...drop the quickdon/quick release armor revealing a monk's belt).
Don't forget about the Amulet of Natural Armor for an extra kick of +1 to +5 AC that'll stack with just about anything.
(Hello, my name is Cosmo. And I am a powergamer.)
If you want a particularly absurd defensive item, get yourself a shield with a Defending shield spike. +5 Heavy Steel Shield with a +5 Defending Shield Spike comes out to be right around 110k, for a +7 Shield Bonus and a +5 "bonus that stacks with all others".
And, of course, you don't actually need to pay for it as a +5 if you can get your buddy the cleric to cast Greater Magic Weapon on it. Add your Ring of Protection (or Potion of Shield of Faith, if you prefer the reduced cost of expendables) and Amulet of Natural Armor (or potion of Barkskin) and you can have a total of +22 to your AC before you even figure in your armor, base natural armor, or dexterity.
(Hi, Cosmo)
Toymaker is right, if you want a nice AC :
+1 ghost touch full plate armor with +1 defending ghost touch spikes, cost: 1650 (full plate armor) +16000 (+4 enhancement) +150 (spikes) +8000 (enhancement for the spikes) = 25,800 gp
+1 ghost touch heavy shield with +1 defending ghost touch spikes, cost: 170 (heavy steel shield) +16000 (+4 enhancement) +110 (spikes) +8000 (enhancement for the spikes) = 24,280 gp
+5 amulet of natural armor, cost: 50,000 gp
+5 ring of protection, cost: 50,000 gptotal: 150,080 gp
ask your cleric or wizard to cast greater magic weapon on the spikes of the armor and of the shield.
ask your cleric to cast magic vestment on the armor and the shield.
you'll finish with:
AC :
10 (base)
+ 1 (dex bonus)
+ 8 (armor bonus from full plate armor)
+ 5 (enhancement bonus to armor bonus from magic vestment)
+ 2 (shield bonus from heavy shield)
+ 5 (enhancement bonus to shield bonus from magic vestment)
+ 5 (enhancement to natural armor from amulet)
+ 5 (deflection bonus from ring of protection)
+ 5 (unamed bonus from spikes of the armor)
+ 5 (unamed bonus from spikes of the shield)
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51So you get AC: 51, touch AC: 26, flat-footed AC: 50
As armor, shield and spikes are ghost touch, this AC works against incorporeal.
Now take the feat shield ward (from PHB II), and you can have a touch AC : 33
I'll add that is an obscene AC, but it is also obscenely expensive.
Haven't read the whole post so sorry if this already came up.
Do Bracers of Armour work against incorpreal attacks, seeing as they are made with mage armour?
Haven't read the whole post so sorry if this already came up.
Do Bracers of Armour work against incorpreal attacks, seeing as they are made with mage armour?
yes, they do, as noted by apprenticewizard. in fact their armor bonus doesn't stack with mage armor as they are essentially the same deal, but bracers of armor go higher that +4.
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Haven't read the whole post so sorry if this already came up.
Do Bracers of Armour work against incorpreal attacks, seeing as they are made with mage armour?
I would say no. They give you an armour bonus, which does not work against incorporeal attacks. They are only defeated by deflection and DEX. As an aside, I don't think Mage Armour works against incorporeal attacks either.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I would say no. They give you an armour bonus, which does not work against incorporeal attacks. They are only defeated by deflection and DEX. As an aside, I don't think Mage Armour works against incorporeal attacks either.
Mage Armor does protect against incorporeal attacks. I don't know about Mage Armour - does spelling it wrong change its effect? ;-)
from the SRD:
Unlike mundane armor, mage armor entails no armor check penalty, arcane spell failure chance, or speed reduction. Since mage armor is made of force, incorporeal creatures can’t bypass it the way they do normal armor.