I've been grabbing up every Greyhawk product I can get my hands on, including the online Player's Guid to Greyhawk, and the new(ish) Living Greyhawk Gazetteer--yet for everything I've found there's one thing that I really NEED before I can start getting serious about my Greyhawk campaign, and I figure a series of articles here would really help.
Cities of the Flanaess:
Hopefully it would take national regions like Nyrond, Furyondy, Ket, Veluna, or Keoland and detail the cities in as little as the Faerun style one-paragraph summary up to maybe a centerpiece article on some major city with a map.
There's just a lot of interesting sounding cities with next to nothing written about them and it would be neat to see things detailed a bit so I can fully take advantage of the setting's flavor.
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Hi,
in the "Fate of Istus" adventures book (softcover), you may find a brief description (2-3 pages +1 page-map) of 10 cities all over the Flanaess : Rookrost, Rel Mord, Jurnre, Elredd, Wintershiven, Leukish, Rauxes, Chendl, Verbobonc and Hesuel Ilshar.
You will find a great deal of information in "the marklands" (Nyrond + Furyondy) and "Iuz the evil" (Iuz'occupied countries), both by Carl Sargent, as well as in something about the Great Kingdom (I forgot the name ; it's also by Sargent ; material was published in 3 or 4 Dragon mags, and is easily found on various GH sites).
"The Scarlet Brotherhood" contains also lots of information about SB's occupied countries, the SB itself, and various cities and sites in both Amedio jungle and Hepmonaland sub-continent.
Good luck !!
Dungeon detailed Istivin and Hardby in the last couple of years. There's also information on many cities on the canonfire website.
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I must say I agree with Grimcleaver. Considering how long Greyhawk has been around, it's surprising how little information can be found for certain cities. The Living Greyhawk Gazetteer went a long way in detailing the various kingdoms of the Flanaess, and the Living Greyhawk articles on the WOTC site have information on Kalstrand, Highport, and Scant. Istivin, Hardby, and Alhaster were featured in Dungeon. Even Dyvers and Verbobonc got coverage in the Oerth Journal (Verbobonc is an odd case, with conflicting information from Fate of Istus, Vecna Lives, and the Oerth Journal). However, important cities such as Niole Dra, Highfolk, Gradsul, Irongate, Mitrik, and Riftcrag have next to nothing written about them as far as I know. I would appreciate articles detailing various cities of the Flanaess, akin to the Places of Mystery articles on the Living Greyhawk site, but with maps.
Check out Maldin's website for info on Irongate (including some maps) and some very useful maps of Greyhawk and its sewers. I don't have the web address handy, but I think if you google Melkot (Maldin's personal addition to Greyhawk, a city near the Yeomanry), you should come up with it.
I agree that it might be cool to have a series of articles in Dungeon or Dragon on this topic. As you say, a paragraph would be enough to help get the juices flowing--so a series of 1-2 page articles along the lines of campaign workbooks would be enough to do the trick, with an occasional more fleshed out article, along the lines of the backdrop articles on Hardby, Istivin, Diamond Lake, Alhaster, and Sasserine. Maybe once a quarter for the short articles, which could hit all the major cities in a particular kingdom or region, and once a year for a free-floating backdrop article?
Come on, James and Erik, you know you'd love this!
I must say I agree with Grimcleaver. Considering how long Greyhawk has been around, it's surprising how little information can be found for certain cities.
It might get a bit less surprising if you know that Greyhawk was in the beginning not much more than the background setting for the classical dungeon adventures (like Queen of the Spiders, Temple of Elemental Evil, the Slavers series, and others). Back in these days (80es), there was not all that much background information needed to play. The entries for entire countries in the World of Greyhawk boxed set, for example, are seldom longer than a quarter to half a page, and even the From the Ashes box from the early nineties does not give much more information.
To make things worse, the various authors working on Greyhawk did not always check the existing information on the world, sparse as it may have been, leading to contradicting descriptions in various sources. The folks contributing to Canonfire!try to reconcile the various canon sources (among a LOT of other things), which is not an easy task, to say the least. Anyone interested in Greyhawk lore should check out this site, and contribute if possible.Stefan
It would be great if Greyhawk places (cities, countries, whatever) could get a treatment like the article on Impiltur in issue 346 every now and then. If there would be a balance on articles on the main campaign settings (FR, GH and Eberron), I think there would be something for everyone. (And older settings once a year, more is probably not possible. I like Mystara and Spelljammer, but you can´t get everything at once.)
But I don´t know if there would be a problem with the Living Greyhawk Campaign. At one time, there was a policy that as long as LG was running, there would be no official treatment of the setting. And as Dragon has the "100% official content" stamp on it, that could make a treatment like that imagined above impossible. This has been a recurring topic here.
Stefan
Hiya.
Uh, if you think that a book 'detailing' (re: a paragraph or few) of every 'major city' in Greyhawk is "just what it needs"...then I'd have to say that you've missed one of the MAJOR points of Greyhawk. That point is simply this: Each individual DM's campaign, set in Greyhawk, will be and should be different.
Greyhawk is (and never was) about presenting a "detailed world". It was/is/should be about each individual DM adding his own flavors to the world. I've played in a few different Greyhawk campaigns/games over the last 25+ years, and, without a doubt, each one has been different. I've also played in about 4 or so Forgotton Realms campaigns/games, and, without a doubt, each one was more or less exactly the same. Why? Simply put, FR has "City X: bla bla bla"...so, each DM simply uses that description. In Greyhawk, it's "City X"...so, each DM develops it according to his campaigns needs and desires.
Greyhawk isn't about "buying all the latest info"...it's about taking a relatively sparcly detailed, yet colorful, world and custom-tailoring it. It's about each DM/group adding their own style to the game.
If I want cookie-cutter information that every Bob, Jane, Dick and Frederico will use...I'll go play FR. If I want to see the town of Blue (for example) be a bustling trade city in one campaign, a seedy pirate city in another, or a city constantly involved in 'turf wars' between rival Thieves guilds and the local law...I'll take Greyhawk, thank you very much. :)
*shrug*
I'd say there's plenty in the way of specific current events stuff happening in Greyhawk. Likewise I'm not saying I want everything explained to death with the names of every barmaid and burgher in town, but it seems like things are getting detailed here and there one way or another--heck read the other responses here.
It's just not all in one place at all. You have to chase around and look for it. All I'm saying is for those of us who DO like what Greyhawk is, and who want a nice guide to it, that it would be immensely helpful to have it all in one place--namely in a series of Dragon articles that one can have around as a reference.
If, for you, the benefit of Greyhawk is in its lack of detail and flavor text, then you're free to ignore it or to chop shop it for the stuff you want. Wonderful thing, roleplaying. Don't like Faerun because it's too detailed? Ignore the details. Run a game 10,000 years ago, 1000 years in the future. Run an alternate setting where things are different. Have a major baddie take over and reconfigure the map. Or heck, just start rearranging things for no good reason. No reason to get uptight with settings--particularly if the detail is the stuff you don't like. Heck, that pretty much gives you carte blanche to do whatever you want.
Me? I like detail. I like crawling under the skin of a place. To me saying a place is "special because its generic" feels like a cop-out. Greyhawk isn't special because its generic. In fact of the settings out there it seems to be the most events driven. The battle with Iuz and the Scarlet Brotherhood are right center stage. Most of the nations are some flavor of war torn, while others could be ripped from the headlines with their themes of religious fundamentalism gone amok (Al'akbar, Pholtus). With the last three adventure paths as background material, big changes seem to be going on everywhere. Gods are trying to come back and tear down the world, people are turning into demon-ridden zombies out of 28 Days Later. Big stuff, and pretty well defined.
So yeah, I'd say maybe it's less that I've missed the point of Greyhawk, and maybe that it's okay for different people to like a setting for different reasons maybe.
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I'm just too lazy to make my own adventures and maps. It's the reason why I buy Dungeon. I would much prefer to modify an existing adventure and setting to cater to the needs of my group than to have to come up with everything from scratch. Last time I ran a campaign in my own setting, I spent most of my time in between sessions coming up with names, encounters, stats, and maps. I didn't have enough time to come up with plot twists and character-driven events and had to run much of it on the fly. So the more detail I know about a setting, the better. If I don't like it, I can simply change it.
Less detail, more adventures. :)
Set in and around Maure Castle ;)
Less detail, more adventures. :)
How about 25% detail, 75% adventure.....
I think a great example of how to format and detail a town or city in a campaign world is Saltmarsh from the DMG2. Not bogged down with details, just enough to give you a sense of who lives where and what their level/class breakdown could be. Most areas have an adventure hook in case you need some inspiration and there it is. Add in a map and the local history and you're all set. They even have a dungeon map ready for one of the older mansions in town in case your PCs want to track down a resident vampire when they hit 9th level or so.
I like to see the town/city as the springboard or backdrop for adventures, so the more hooks I can choose from in a pre-published campaign, the better.
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Less detail, more adventures. :)
Don't get me wrong, I usually look forward to my issue of Dungeon more than Dragon and I've always thought it was the adventures that made a setting great, but this thread is a Dragon Article Request thread and I'm not sure I want to see any adventures in the pages of Dragon. I enjoy the Core Belief and Demononicon articles, as well as the various Ecology articles, but lately I have found that much of the Dragon content I have little use for. New curses, new vampires, Eberron monsters? If I'm running Age of Worms, how is any of that stuff going to be handy? What I am happy about though is the list of articles on the side of the issues, so that 2 years from now when I'll be looking for vampire stuff, I won't have to flip through all of my Dragons.
Any discussion of settings needs to include some NPC stat blocks - I get the most bang out of my buck when I see the stats for say, a typical Kettite partol (ala Tsojcanth), thieve's guild member, or Severed Hand orc veteran. These stats paired with the political/organization are very useful when PC's interact with the occupants of various locals in the way that matters most: combat! :)
Of course, a stat blocks is also a great way to learn more about that individual's society. By looking at their equipment, race, class, skills, etc., you get a flavor for their nation's technological level, social structure, and political organization.
hehe no one else has said it; so I guess I have to; in the words of the Joker from the Batman movie, Greyhawk is deperatly in need of an enema lol; I cant spell; maybe that is enigma :) meaning it needs a breath of fresh air; am currently playing in a Paladium game set in the Greyhawk world with all the maps and stuff; with access to all the player races and a much more open venue of what races are accepted into various cities it sure changes the way the game is played. Greyhawk the city being very nuetral has all kinds of races running around in it; very cool.
Greyhawk has been forcibly expanded as open as I could ever imagine. Maybe even a bit too far. Every race (even some really wierd stuff that should have probably stayed specific to other settings like Half-giants and thri-kreen) every class (including Incarnum classes, Psionicists, Ninjas, Alienists, and Effigy masters). There's spelljammer flying neogi, doorways to Sigil, misty entrances to ravenloft, githyanki invasions and who knows what.
Granted I love the new fresh openness of it. I like having a setting where I can use all the stuff in Dragon, Dungeon, and every D&D book written without having to peruse it for special notes about how things fit into "this" setting--because for better or worse its the default. Everything written for every D&D product ever written for 3rd edition (barring the Faerun and L5R specific stuff) is IN Greyhawk.
I really think its not a matter of needing to enima anything more into it. Heavens no. There's plenty going into it every print cycle. Rather it's a matter of defining and redefining and doing some traffic control to let all this stuff in but keeping Greyhawk from just being the warehouse for all things D&D and helping it keep its flavor amidst the rising tide of new material.
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Everything written for every D&D product ever written for 3rd edition (barring the Faerun and L5R specific stuff) is IN Greyhawk.
I think you overestimate the forced inclusiveness of "Core" products into the "Core Greyhawk" setting. Not all of it is by default in Greyhawk just because it appears in a book. It takes just a bit more for it to really become part of the setting.
And I would note that spelljammers, Sigil, Ravenloft, and more, have existed in Greyhawk since the days of 2nd ed. Indeed, many look at the Gord story "Weird Alley" as evidence that Greyhawk has had a connection to Sigil since 1st ed. days, as well as the "sudden" inclusion of everything in Unearthed Arcana (1st ed version) in Greyhawk when it was released. So while the mass of material is certainly greater, the tradition of doing so is hardly anything new.As for the flavor of Greyhawk, if the setting is distinct, it will show through no matter how much new material is added. If it doesn't, then perhaps there was never much to the setting in the first place.
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Yo. Pimp my campaign, dawg.
Hahahah....
I could see that. Four or five guys sitting around a table in mom's basement, old pewter minis with chipped paint, worn out die ....going on and on about their 1st edition barbarian. LOL
Suddenly Vin Diesel (Xzibit don't know crap about gamin') pops in with new minis, a few issues of Dungeon, and brings the freshness!
"Pimp my Campaign: Season One on MTV"
LOL
okay ....maybe its just funny to me.
I now return you to your regular scheduled posts...
In the face of contradictory info, I always go back to the creator: E. Gary Gygax. His two "Greyhawk Adventures" and bunch of "Gord the Rogue" novels detail a number of trips all over the (pre-wars) World of Greyhawk (although, due to copyright issues, all the place names are changed in the later books to things that sound suspiciously like the original ones, but just aren't quite). Granted, these books are fairly clicheed and not all that well written, but if you want descriptions of Greyhawk (and especially of the Free City itself), why not get them "from the horse's mouth," as it were? They may be out of print, but Amazon is sure to be able to hook you up with some used copies. If I remember correctly, the titles are: Saga of Old City; Artifact of Evil; Sea of Death; Night Arrant; City of Hawks; Come Endless Darkness; and Dance of Demons.
Cool idea, though I don't know if I'm up to reading a ton of novels to get the same info I could get from the series of articles I'm talking about--especially if they're not particularly good. From what I've heard G.G. was not a stellar fantasy author. Likewise I'm a bit more into the new Eric Mona Greyhawk than I am the red box version of it. Things were loads more unsophisticated back then across the board and the game has matured a lot. Besides 3.0 has changed a lot of things and I'd as soon learn it the way it is now.
From what I've heard G.G. was not a stellar fantasy author.
Heh. That's putting it mildly.
Actually, your approach makes a lot of sense; I get randomly nostalgic over "the old days" of 1E... but realistically speaking, J. Jacobs and E. Mona are equal to or better than the best designers who ever played the game back then, and 3/3.5 E is a much better game overall.
The Living Greyhawk campaign added a lot of material for various cities. If you know what city you want details on, you can probably find info for the corresponding region that city is placed in.
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The Living Greyhawk campaign added a lot of material for various cities. If you know what city you want details on, you can probably find info for the corresponding region that city is placed in.
Somehow I am doubtful. As far as I'm aware very few cities have Living Greyhawk material on them. I tried looking for information on Riftcrag and found nothing (other than the "Iuz the Evil" supplement). I signed up with the RPGA to try to download adventures and it seems like it's more trouble than it's worth. Not only are all the old scenarios not available anymore, but to download an adventure I have to pass an online test (which was actually lots of fun), organise an event and send in a request to the RPGA so I can then have the password sent to me which finally allows me to download the adventure. A bit complicated to say the least. How can I possibly organise an event without first reading the scenario? I would at least like to review an adventure before I finally decide to run it.
I haven't entirely given up running Living Greyhawk adventures for my friends, and I appreciate all the hard work the folks at the RPGA must do, but it seems to me that Living Greyhawk would fare better if the stuff was more readily available to its fans. Maybe I'm just just doing it wrong and there's an easier way to get LG scenarios. Until then it strikes me as the kind of game you only run at conventions.
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The Living Greyhawk campaign added a lot of material for various cities. If you know what city you want details on, you can probably find info for the corresponding region that city is placed in.Somehow I am doubtful. As far as I'm aware very few cities have Living Greyhawk material on them. I tried looking for information on Riftcrag and found nothing (other than the "Iuz the Evil" supplement). I signed up with the RPGA to try to download adventures and it seems like it's more trouble than it's worth. Not only are all the old scenarios not available anymore, but to download an adventure I have to pass an online test (which was actually lots of fun), organise an event and send in a request to the RPGA so I can then have the password sent to me which finally allows me to download the adventure. A bit complicated to say the least. How can I possibly organise an event without first reading the scenario? I would at least like to review an adventure before I finally decide to run it.
I haven't entirely given up running Living Greyhawk adventures for my friends, and I appreciate all the hard work the folks at the RPGA must do, but it seems to me that Living Greyhawk would fare better if the stuff was more readily available to its fans. Maybe I'm just just doing it wrong and there's an easier way to get LG scenarios. Until then it strikes me as the kind of game you only run at conventions.
This isn't an issue of LG. LG scenarios are sanctioned events. Getting the password for scenarios is identical to ordering Core scenarios through rpga.com. One can't ask rpga to send COR6-01 Story for Another Day just for casual reading. In the same sense you can't ask the LG Triad for NYR5-01 Don't Cry for Me, Nyrond for Nyrond reference material. If you want to play LG you need to participate in santioned events by following the ordering process. If you want Greyhawk references for home campaigns there is a lot out there in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd ed. materials. I would suggest if you want to run home games in Greyhawk you read the campaign building pages in the DMG and use what is available as a starting point. If you want to play/judge LG in sanctioned events and perhaps help build the detail you say is lacking I'm sure the triad in your region would welcome you.
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If you want to play LG you need to participate in santioned events by following the ordering process. If you want Greyhawk references for home campaigns there is a lot out there in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd ed. materials. I would suggest if you want to run home games in Greyhawk you read the campaign building pages in the DMG and use what is available as a starting point. If you want to play/judge LG in sanctioned events and perhaps help build the detail you say is lacking I'm sure the triad in your region would welcome you.
I understand all of that. But all I wanted was to run LG sanctioned events for my home campaign. Having my players build up characters which they could then bring to GenCon to play in other LG scenarios sounds really neat. But I can't bring myself to run an adventure without reading it first. Since I'm from Quebec, I'm supposed to run games set in Tusmit, if I understand how LG works correctly. To be honest, I would much rather run games elsewhere such as the Rift Canyon or the Free City. It would be nice if the scenarios would be more easily available online. I would even be willing to pay for the pdf's, say $4.00 or so. I'm not trying to overly criticise Living Greyhawk. I appreciate all the work that's been done to keep the setting alive and well.
The idea behind this thread is about the lack of source material on Greyhawk. I have all the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd edition Greyhawk stuff, as well as all the LG Journals, the Oerth Journals, and about a gig's worth of stuff I found online. It's not nearly enough. If I was running a homebrew campaign, I would read those campaign building pages in the DMG. I'm not. I'm running a Greyhawk game and the whole point of a campaign setting is to save the DM the work of having to make one from scratch. Besides, I'm too lazy for all that work. It's much easier to spend hours upon hours online looking for any mention of Greyhawk. :)
I'm kind of split on this. While I would dearly love to see a Greyhawk Campaign Sourcebook hardcover plus articles in Dragon, I also firmly believe that a world is defined by its adventures, not by dry entries in an almanac. People remember Greyhawk because they played all the iconic adventures in that world. Greyhawk is defined most of all by the locations of all the famous places most D&D players know and love: the Temple of Elemental Evil, Lost City, Star Cairns, Tomb of Horrors, etc.
I find it most interesting to learn about a world in short throwaway lines within an adventure. It sparks the imagination. If it becomes as detailed as the Forgotten Realms it will lose a certain je nais sais quoi. When everything is known it becomes boring, which is why FR afficionados are constantly searching for new sourcebooks. It will also be more difficult for GMs with imagination (and time) to make it their world, as opposed to dispensing chunks of official-world story, as is often done with FR.
Right now Greyhawk is owned as much by the fans as by WotC, and that's its strength.
GH ... mutability allows for a wider variation of DM world-creation and player involement, making GH, in my estimation, a true gamer-gamer's world and a desirable setting for DMs to experiment in with world building and scenario design to its fullest; and that is in keeping with its original intent--and aptly mirroring D&D's original intent--to inspire creativity.
Preach on, Uncle.
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Nice thoughts.
But if Greyhawk was to be so open to DM development, why was so much added it to it?
A1-4, D1-3, G1-3 T1, WG4-6, S1-4, and more. Module after module, with all of their background, adding to the setting.
Then there were the articles in Dragon, expanding so much on the setting that the folio had to be turned into a boxed set a few years later. And then still more Dragon articles after that, adding yet more development, and setting the stage for a coming war.
And then some novels.
New references in additional rule books.
Material (monsters) from other new rule books suddenly added to existing background material.
All of this compounding to "infringe" on DM development.
It is a nice thought that GH started out as just a one-shot setting, and then everything would be left to individual DMs and players, but it didn't actually work out that way. And aside from the names on the books and modules, I don't see any grand distinction between the material before or after any particular point.
What is left then is the simple reason that starts any setting or module development: it is being done for those who don't have the time to do it themselves. And if you need a starting point for a setting, you likely need, and indeed want, expansion for that setting. So I see no reason why doing such should be objected to so violently.
Speaking as fan of Greyhawk, I find the main problem is the very sparseness of material. While I appreciate Greyhawk as the boullion cube of any homebrew campaign, I'd like to see the previously published material consolidated and published in a Hardback or old school boxed set.
I know I bang on about White Wolf's Scarred Lands as a model setting, but both it and Ptolus had the good sense of a Player's Gazzeter and a DM-only Tome. I can only speak for myself, but I think most of the players I know would love to see the full depth of Greyhawk covered concisely- the setting is huge and elaborate but easily grasped- reintroducing the detail won't do it a bit of harm. We don't need the endless parade of books that FR get- admittedly it's nowhere near as sprawling- it would be just nice to have a basic library a novice can lose themselves in and an old hand can use to rediscover what was so great about the setting.
It doesn't help that Greyhawk lacks a cohesive design concept, unlike FR or Ebberon. Show either book to the average punter and he or she gets it, straight away- the same can't be said of Greyhawk. While Roleplaying is a game of words, that doesn't mean Greyhawk doesn't have a need for a cohesive "look". I get it that Greyhawk is supposed to be the default, be generic. That shouldn't mean it's the poor relation when it comes to product support and visuals (hats off to Paizo for running with that as far as they can). I mean, it's THE D&D campaign, the one most older players started on and the one that established D&D in the popular consciousness in the first place. Sure the old Brown Box had knights jousting on the cover, but that at least was something- everyone else has the chaos spiky bits and concept design that wouldn't look out of place in a console game studio, and nothing wrong with that- Ebberon has done an admirable job at siezing that particular zeitgeist. Thing is, Greyhawk was and remains old school- no one else did what is did and it did it well. Being all things to all men is fine, but too much runs to risk of becoming nothing at all.
Three hardbacks of medium size could suffice: A Book of the East, A Book of the West and a new Book of the City of Greyhawk and environs. A smaller softback Gazeeter offering a truncated view of all three books as a primer for Novice DMs and Players. There's no need to be overly ambitious- I know Wizards need to sell product and offering such a definitive and limited range may seen like a foolish concept, but without doing something more concrete, Greyhawk is in danger of becoming a strange, intangible anchronism lovingly referenced in Paizo publications, corralled into RPGA events and lamented by old Gamers like me.
A bit more then two cents, but there you go- if it does nothing more then kick off debate ond derision, then fair enough.
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. . .In either case, folks of either category were left to pick and choose from these additions, which were not thrust at them all at once in a huge book (or books) and with the notation that that was how it was, so get used to it and adapt.
. . .
That's my take.
RJK
That's fine.
As I said earlier, that is the situation with GH as the "core setting," aka "proper name generator" in 3E/3.5. Random additions are not thrown at people all at once, but little by little in a series of books. You can use them or not as you like. And every subsequent book doesn't always include every bit of material from previous books forcing you to use everything or be left out. (Actually, it is more of a problem when subsequent rule books don't take previous material into account, causing severe synergy and contradiction effects, but that is a rant for WotC.)Some things were graven in stone though. One adventure led to another, and those events had to be considered. Likewise new monsters and new classes. Unearthed Arcana was forced wholesale onto Greyhawk, as were monsters from the Fiend Folio and Monster Manual II. (All 1st ed versions of course.)
Thus my overall objection to the complaint that everything is being "forced" into Greyhawk. It isn't. At least the last time i checked nobody had forced any warforged into the last Maure Castle installment. So no one is forced to "get used to it and adapt."
So yes, your point is quite valid. Except in the end, it still begs the essential question:
If an individual is always free to pick and choose what to buy and use, how does additional setting development, requested by fans, hurt?
The people who want it get what they want.
The people who don't want it will ignore it no matter what.
"Don't tell us what we have to add to the setting" is a legitimate request.
"Don't tell us we can't add anything to the setting" is a very simple request to respect in return.
What Greyhawk desperately needs is people who will do both.
Firbolg, you're my hero.
I too would love a real setting book, though from what I've seen WotC have passed Greyhawk to the guys at Paizo and made it their baby--and they've been doing a fine job of it. There's tons of adventures being written in and about it. It has a scope and a flavor, truth be told the Gazetteer doesn't do an awful job at conveying that, but I haven't played the modules of old, nor the novels, nor the box sets and rather than buy all that stuff to have some idea of the world I thought it would be great to have a semi-recurring article laying out various cities of Greyhawk in an adventuring region format. There are tons of cities that are little more than names right now and if you took them a few at a time people wouldn't have to accept anything they didn't want to.
I don't know about Greyhawk not being forced on me though. I'm originally a Forgotten Realms fan and have dabbled in all the others but Greyhawk for the longest time. Truth be told, I didn't know anything about the setting except for the logo stamped on some pretty dusty looking old adventures and such.
Now you can't stop hearing about it. Thankfully the current trends in Monster Manuals and Dragon articles has been to leave a little blurb for those of us who aren't running Greyhawk laying out what is X in Y setting--but mostly not. All the Ecology articles assume one setting (Greyhawk) and mention specific geography and personalities. Every NPC referrenced for every class in every book are supposed to exist alongside Tordek and Mialee (in Greyhawk). Constantly there's mention of specific tomes or artifacts that really only exist in Greyhawk--like the entire list of major artifacts in the DMG for example, or the Demonomicon of Igwiliv, or The Book of Vile Darkness, or...well yeah there's lots. Even products that have no normal tie into Greyhawk are riddled with references to it. Ravenloft and Planescape have now been tied to Greyhawk (as opposed to everywhere--just Greyhawk).
It's fortunate I've come to like Greyhawk as much as I have. I tend to see the revised cosmology (which came about, by the way, as the result of events...in Greyhawk!) as a welcome bit of fresh air to give new room for new things to grow in other settings. Mostly I worry about so many new concepts being thrust into Greyhawk--because they really are being thrust in--if they can be coped with, sculpted and given a natural place.
I'm trying to do that in my campaign. The PC's in my campaign, scouting out the Empire of Iuz for Furyondy had amongst them a thri-kreen, a duskblade, a dromite, a Kettite expatriate marshal, and a mercenary from the Shieldlands. They've run into web golems and harpoon spiders as well as gnoll cultists of Erythnul led by a mad ettercap (who has maintained shreds of a savage human mind--straight out of the Ecology article).
I can do it. I just wonder if all this material will overwhelm others, if they won't be able to bind it into a cohesive whole.
Not that it would be a cohesive whole I would force on others--I just think a nice series of articles in this regard would do wonders for those of us who would like an official take on how everything fits, and who'd like a tour guide.
We can only hope that whatever material produced for it remains creative, fluff-less, and is of value to the DMs who use it to continue energizing and expanding on the setting, whether those tidbits (or large slices) are offered in the Dungeon or elswhere.
I'm curious what you mean by fluffless? Granted I've only learned the term on here, but what I gather is that fluff is all the history and background and flavor material about a class or a religion or whatever, where the crunch is the actual rules and game mechanics. I have a hard time even imagining a fun fluffless game. It seems like it would play a lot like chess. I guess maybe I'm getting my terms crossed, but it's always been the fluff that I've loved and pretty much made my own crunch as necessary to make the play feel more like the flavor. Anyway I was curious.