Does anybody know if there will be an Eberron conversion for the Savage Tide AP as there was for AoW?
For all you Eberron fan boys and girls I just got confirmation that there will be Eberron notes for ST AP.
*lurks around the corner, "what? no Takasi?"
I'm still waiting for conversion notes for the preview in 138. It would be nice to have an outline of the Eberron conversion and just some basic answers to questions posed months ago after the 135 editorial.
My main concern is that they're not going to do anything creative for the Abyss and simply shoehorn it into the Eberron cosmology.
They've said there would be notes, I'm just wondering: how much, how often, and how well will they be done. How will we get them? Will they be in the magazine (hopefully not), will they be online as pdf or will they be presented as web supplements like WotC provides (my personal preference).
Creative Director
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There will be no conversion notes for the preview; the conversion notes will cover the adventrues, backdrops, and some (possibly all) of the Savage Tidings support articles that are being printed in Dragon. Assuming we can get them all in on time, we hope to post the notes about the same time the issue itself starts reaching customers (which should be very soon). The conversion notes will most likely be posted online as a seperate PDF document from the Map and Art supplements; they will not be appearing in the magazine itself.
I've talked with Keith a little bit about how to handle the Abyss element for the Eberron converson, but we've not really made any decisions about that yet.
The first batch is fairly large, but for following adventrues they should be fairly minor since the adventures take place increasingly further from established content; the further into the Savage Tide the adventures get, the less conversions will be necessary, with the exception that we do need to decide how to handle the Abyss elements. We certainly don't have the resources or time to do a major detailing of the outer planes for Eberron, so if we can't come up with something by the time the Savage Tide moves on to the Abyss in about 8 months, shoehorning may be the only option. The main purpose for this portion of the adventure path is to provide a climactic encounter to the campaign that involves one of the most iconic villians and D&D regions of the game's history. The task of detailing the outer planes of Eberron is for another time.
I'm not sure what questions you're refering to about the 135 editorial that haven't been answered; I've answered countless questions in dozens of forums/seminars/emails/messageboards about the campaign so I'm not surprised some might have been overlooked or missed. If you can repost them, I'll do my best to answer them.
Thanks James! Appreciate the work and the information!
I'm not sure what sorts of "Abyssal" environments are going to be needed for the final chapters of STAP, and I admit, I don't have my copy of the preview with me to look up even the basics. I do remember something about "sailing into the Abyss"?
Anyway, my idea is that the Abyss portions of the adventure might not need to take place on one of the other planes (or at least, much of it might not). Individual powerful beings (like Iggwilv) could be really interesting as Lords of Dust (the more powerful among those who are still active, not the ones bound by couatls into Silver Flames). Some Abyssal locations could actually be locations within Khyber that are manifest zones to another plane (as opposed to actually being in the other plane).
I'd even debated (for my own campaign) having Demogorgon be a Lord of Dust, and his twinned personalities being the result of his being inhabited by an extremely powerful spirit from Dal Quor. Of course, there's no telling at this moment if this would make any sense in the campaign as written, but I'm optimistic.
I'd even debated (for my own campaign) having Demogorgon be a Lord of Dust, and his twinned personalities being the result of his being inhabited by an extremely powerful spirit from Dal Quor. Of course, there's no telling at this moment if this would make any sense in the campaign as written, but I'm optimistic.
I had the same idea, except split in two.(Demogorgon Lord of Dust, then a different campaign featuring a daelkyr inhabited by a Quori) My thoughts on a new Demogorgon concept for eberron emphasized his insanity and connection with savagery(sp?): A Kraken whose two longest tentacles end in a giant tiger's head and a giant wolf's head, who constantly attck each other. Their only known case of unity was during the Demon Wars, where many dragons were afraid to fly across the ocean, because he would drag them to the depths. Since his imprisionment, the two heads have blamed each other for their current problems.
Cool! Let's get some other Eberron-flavored myths and alternate theories about Demogorgon, and when the time comes for the PCs to do research, they can discover a bunch of contradictory theories from different scholars.
Anyway, my idea is that the Abyss portions of the adventure might not need to take place on one of the other planes (or at least, much of it might not). Individual powerful beings (like Iggwilv) could be really interesting as Lords of Dust (the more powerful among those who are still active, not the ones bound by couatls into Silver Flames). Some Abyssal locations could actually be locations within Khyber that are manifest zones to another plane (as opposed to actually being in the other plane).
Funny, I was thinking the same thing with Abyss being in Khyber. There's really no need to have Khyber be Underdark 2: The Sequel. Maybe the upper portions are tunnels and what not, but it's a prison for the Lords of Dust and the primordial dragon Khyber himself.
I figured it would be pretty weird with areas that seem to be anything but some underground tunnel. They could be manifest zones, transdimensional pockets, or "this is just weird with no game mechanic explanation" but 3rd edition seems to go rather light on that last one, unfortunately.
But if I were running Savage Tide in Eberron, I would not hesitate to have the Abyss portion occur deep in Khyber with Demogorgon, Orcus, and such being Lords of Dust.
Funny, I was thinking the same thing with Abyss being in Khyber. There's really no need to have Khyber be Underdark 2: The Sequel. Maybe the upper portions are tunnels and what not, but it's a prison for the Lords of Dust and the primordial dragon Khyber himself.
Considering that for a long time people though Hell was literally under their feet, it's conceivable that in a fantasy world, it really is.
Considering that for a long time people though Hell was literally under their feet, it's conceivable that in a fantasy world, it really is.
....it's not? :-0
And here I am thinking of cross referencing Fiendish Codex 1 with what is know about the planes in Eberron. Not only that but maybe making a switch of demons. Ditching Demogorgon in favor of Dagon.
Now . . . I realize that it might already be stated somewhere, and that I might also be reading too much of a reference in too little of an aspect of the city . . . but as far as the placement of Sasserine in Eberron, my gut feeling is Thronehold.
It's on the water, it's got a castle that's not being used, it's go a bridge that people have given up on repairing . . .
i dunno . . just a thought.
Now . . . I realize that it might already be stated somewhere, and that I might also be reading too much of a reference in too little of an aspect of the city . . . but as far as the placement of Sasserine in Eberron, my gut feeling is Thronehold.
It's on the water, it's got a castle that's not being used, it's go a bridge that people have given up on repairing . . .
i dunno . . just a thought.
My feeling is that Sasserine would fit nicely in Q'Barra - a tropical, frontier city on the edge of a vast jungle. The "good-aligned" nature most of Sasserine's inhabitants matches the ideals of the founders of New Galifar. The threat of attack by lizardfolk inhabitants of the jungle and raids by Lhazaar pirates, I think, suits the campaign style well. I was thinking of situating Sasserine on the south shore of the bay that the Crimson River (name ties in nicely with the Crimson Fleet, too) empties into, on the east coast of Q'Barra.
I have to agree. Q'Barra was my top guess with the Lhazaar Principalities as my second. The landscape around Lhazaar didn't make as much sense as Q'Barra though. I can't wait to see the conversion doc, which will hopefully be out soon.
Sooo... any official conversion in sight? I'm totally stoked to run this, and Eberron is my current setting choice.
:)
basically this is a bump post, yeah.
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We've got Keith's notes for adventure 1 in, but we're waiting for Eric's for FR still. Once we get those all in, we'll get the conversion notes up online ASAP.
One thing I can say, thoguh, is that Demogorgon's still Demogorgon in any version of Savage Tide.
Just an observation James, you posted 4 times in 20 minutes to threads for the Savage Tide. I love that you feel strongly enough about the path to post so much about it. It shows a real love for the product that you guys have produced. I am also loving the product and thought to take this time to say "Thanks" to all involved in my gaming for the next year or so.
FH (still waiting for the "Lifetime" subscription option for Dungeon mag.)
We've got Keith's notes for adventure 1 in, but we're waiting for Eric's for FR still. Once we get those all in, we'll get the conversion notes up online ASAP.
One thing I can say, thoguh, is that Demogorgon's still Demogorgon in any version of Savage Tide.
YAR! Eric's been slacking on those notes for over a week now! ;o)
Nah - no complaints, but they had better be some darn good notes! LOL
Curiously, will the Affiliations in Dragon 348 be converted to Eberron? Most don't need too much change. The Seekers could easily become the Wayfarers or a group from Morgrave U. The others are pretty world generic, apart from the Scarlet Brotherhood. I'm not sure how much of a part they play in the AP, but I was considering the Emerald Claw. It would have to be reworked as I don't see the SB and the EC being the same organization at all.
Thoughts?
I'm not sure how much of a part they play in the AP, but I was considering the Emerald Claw. It would have to be reworked as I don't see the SB and the EC being the same organization at all.
Thoughts?
I agree that the Scarlet Brotherhood is a very different organization than Emerald Claw, but I don't have a big problem with inserting the Scarlet Brotherhood into Eberron. As far as I'm concerned you can never have too many sinister Secret Societies and one of the things I love about Eberron is the proliferation of evil cults and sinister societies. I figure the Scarlet Brotherhood would fit right in without much retooling needed. Few people have heard of them because they're good at keeping their heads down and avoiding the notice of mainstream Khorvairan society?
Hmm, as the SB is sort of a racial purity group wanting to bring back the Suel empire, perhaps the Eberron version could be a cult of goblinoids driven to bring back the Dhakaani empire?
Hmm, as the SB is sort of a racial purity group wanting to bring back the Suel empire, perhaps the Eberron version could be a cult of goblinoids driven to bring back the Dhakaani empire?
I'd probably play up the sneaky, foriegn expansionists angle and look at a Quori (the bad dream guys) conspiracy (sp?) from that other continent.
Hmm, as the SB is sort of a racial purity group wanting to bring back the Suel empire, perhaps the Eberron version could be a cult of goblinoids driven to bring back the Dhakaani empire?I'd probably play up the sneaky, foriegn expansionists angle and look at a Quori (the bad dream guys) conspiracy (sp?) from that other continent.
I like it. I think the SB would work really well as Inspired agents from Riedra, opposed by Kalashtar monks of Adar. Also, if you put Sasserine in Q'Barra, since Sarlona is just across the Lhazaar Sea, it makes sense that the SB would be trying to establish a foothold there.
I like it. I think the SB would work really well as Inspired agents from Riedra, opposed by Kalashtar monks of Adar. Also, if you put Sasserine in Q'Barra, since Sarlona is just across the Lhazaar Sea, it makes sense that the SB would be trying to establish a foothold there.Hmm, as the SB is sort of a racial purity group wanting to bring back the Suel empire, perhaps the Eberron version could be a cult of goblinoids driven to bring back the Dhakaani empire?I'd probably play up the sneaky, foriegn expansionists angle and look at a Quori (the bad dream guys) conspiracy (sp?) from that other continent.
Brilliant. Just brilliant. Inspired even. ;)
Seriously though, it's a great idea.
som.
When (if ever) are we going to get the Eberron conversion notes for the ST? If Keith has already submitted his notes, then why can't they be posted with the conversion notes for the FR to follow?
Don't punish the Eberronites because of the slow FR response for the conversion!
Keep it real,
Big D!
When (if ever) are we going to get the Eberron conversion notes for the ST? If Keith has already submitted his notes, then why can't they be posted with the conversion notes for the FR to follow?
Don't punish the Eberronites because of the slow FR response for the conversion!
Keep it real,
Big D!
Because the conversion notes are bundled - They have other priorities - like publishing periodicals - ;o) I mean - conversion notes are a bunch of lace that are nice to have, however it is the periodicals that make them the cool cash.
When they have time in-between the current magazine that is being finished up they will publish it. As has been said over, and over, and over , and over again.
Is that real enough for you?
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Creative Director
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We have all the notes in now, but we also have a deadline at the end of the week and a magazine in dire need of attention before then. As a result, it looks like the conversions will be up sometime early next week. If, by some sort of miracle, we finish this issue early, we might get them online by the end of the week.
Remember, there aren't as many editors working on Dungeon as you might think.
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Creative Director
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In Eberron, Sasserine is on the southernmost island of the Lhazaar Principalities, southwest of the gnome-dominated island of Lorghalen.
Characters in the Realms version of the arc begin their careers in the city of Tashluta (Sasserine) along the south coast of the Shining Sea (Jeklea Bay), just east of the Jungles of Chult (Amedio Jungle).
In Eberron, Sasserine is on the southernmost island of the Lhazaar Principalities, southwest of the gnome-dominated island of Lorghalen.
Characters in the Realms version of the arc begin their careers in the city of Tashluta (Sasserine) along the south coast of the Shining Sea (Jeklea Bay), just east of the Jungles of Chult (Amedio Jungle).
James - that was truely kind of you, thank you so much!
In Eberron, Sasserine is on the southernmost island of the Lhazaar Principalities, southwest of the gnome-dominated island of Lorghalen.
Characters in the Realms version of the arc begin their careers in the city of Tashluta (Sasserine) along the south coast of the Shining Sea (Jeklea Bay), just east of the Jungles of Chult (Amedio Jungle).
Wow that was rinky dinky!
*ducks*
Just kidding! Thanks for the info.
If, by some sort of miracle, we finish this issue early, we might get them online by the end of the week.
Well great, my first session is this Sunday and it's an all day marathon of There is No Honor. Oh well, I'll keep my fingers crossed for that miracle.
So let's say a miracle happens and you get this conversion before this session... how long do are willing to wait for the next one? Just curious...
I am always shocked when I see that people who are looking at conversioins are willing to jump in and run things before far more adventures are out. But more power to you and good luck. I think you are in for more work for yourself than others who wait to start are. (I am a firm believer in waiting for the entire series to be out prior to running... so now I am looking at AoW).
Sean Mahoney
So let's say a miracle happens and you get this conversion before this session... how long do are willing to wait for the next one? Just curious...
I am always shocked when I see that people who are looking at conversioins are willing to jump in and run things before far more adventures are out. But more power to you and good luck. I think you are in for more work for yourself than others who wait to start are. (I am a firm believer in waiting for the entire series to be out prior to running... so now I am looking at AoW).
Sean Mahoney
I hear you - My group is about halfway through the second adventure in AoW - I like to know EXACTLY what's going on that way I can tweek it and adapt it even more into Eberron. Like some of the baddies are Warforged and some have specialized Prestige classes that make more sense in Eberron.
So let's say a miracle happens and you get this conversion before this session... how long do are willing to wait for the next one? Just curious...
A few weeks after I get the magazine.
I am always shocked when I see that people who are looking at conversioins are willing to jump in and run things before far more adventures are out. But more power to you and good luck. I think you are in for more work for yourself than others who wait to start are. (I am a firm believer in waiting for the entire series to be out prior to running... so now I am looking at AoW).
Well more power to you, but I buy the adventure path so I can use it, not so I can wait for 12 months and then use it. My players want to have access to Eberron material (and so do I) so I need to adapt the setting. Paizo is going through the trouble of buying the notes, but what good are they if they're months behind? The longer the magazine is out the more likely players are going to read them. 4th edition is coming, and when it does my players will want to try that. Savage Tide is probably the last 3.5 AP.
So whatever. Be a firm believer all you want, but please respect my desire to run the adventure I paid for without waiting for months to do so.
So whatever. Be a firm believer all you want, but please respect my desire to run the adventure I paid for without waiting for months to do so.
A bit defensive n'est pas? Why not respect his right to be shocked and have firm beliefs? 4th ed. isn't coming for a while so don't stress out about it. Even if 4th ed came out tomorrow - you'd still probably run the campaign as 3.5... Mostly because the adventures have been written as such and changing systems in the middle of an AP would be bad editing. Paizo doesn't have bad editors - ergo you have nothing to worry about.
Now can we all take a big breath? James gave us the basics that you people have been asking for - Smile it's more than you had 3 hours ago ;o)
So whatever. Be a firm believer all you want, but please respect my desire to run the adventure I paid for without waiting for months to do so.A bit defensive n'est pas? Why not respect his right to be shocked and have firm beliefs? 4th ed. isn't coming for a while so don't stress out about it. Even if 4th ed came out tomorrow - you'd still probably run the campaign as 3.5... Mostly because the adventures have been written as such and changing systems in the middle of an AP would be bad editing. Paizo doesn't have bad editors - ergo you have nothing to worry about.
Now can we all take a big breath? James gave us the basics that you people have been asking for - Smile it's more than you had 3 hours ago ;o)
-Regadless of the time, i appreciate the information for the FR city being posted prior to having to find out via pdf. It was the only really thing holding up my game. Since that was two sessions ago, i had to choose a different place : ( oh well, thanks for the gesture though. Its appreciated.
P.S. WHAT *I* find funny is no one can have an opinon anymore if it slightly anit-politically correct. I choose to respect NONE of your opinions to be shocked, or have firm beliefs. Or wanting to run an AP before, during, or after it comes out. LOL!!! j/k...maybe...
In Eberron, Sasserine is on the southernmost island of the Lhazaar Principalities, southwest of the gnome-dominated island of Lorghalen.
Characters in the Realms version of the arc begin their careers in the city of Tashluta (Sasserine) along the south coast of the Shining Sea (Jeklea Bay), just east of the Jungles of Chult (Amedio Jungle).
Thanks James! I figured it would be somewhere in that area... either in south Lhazaar or northern Q'barra. Looking forward to running this in Eberron!
Hrmm... wasn't my intent to open recently closed wounds, my apologies... I was being serious though. If the conversion notes take longer than you are hoping for, what is the backup plan? What are your ideas on converting this should you have to hoe that road alone?
Sean Mahoney
Hi James,
Thanks for the 411 on where the Eberron campaign begins. I apologize for not understanding the editing limitations at Dungeon...if you need any outsourcing, I'm there for you! All I'd need is to be able to stay in Madison, WI for my current gig, but my ultimate dream is publish in Nature, Science, Dragon, & Dungeon....hey, priorities right!?! :-)
I appreciate the fast responses on the board too. My group began "There Is No Honor" this past Saturday and it was a blast. Maybe I'll zip over to another thread and post what's happened. Briefly, one PC is a Vanderboren bastard, childhood friend of Lavinia and Vanthus who's been disowned and suspected of killing the Vanderboren parents. He was terribly upset that Lavinia didn't recognize him (although it's been years, but I rolled a "5" on a DC10 Recognize Distanced Family check). Lavinia has procured the services of a high-level Inquisitor to find out anything about the murder of her parents. It will give this PC something to worry about...(insert evil DM laugh here). They visited the "Blue Nixie", defeated Soller Vark (didn't put a guard on him so he escaped), and nearly had a TPK with the rhagodessa (3 out of 4 were down and out...I kept on pretending to miss the nearly dead halfling but it made for good entertainment).
Great start so far! I can't wait for future installments and our next game. Now if I could only convince my wife that every Saturday night would be a good thing....that's a DC40 Placation check and me with a negative Cha modifier from our last game running 90 min longer than expected.
Big D!
No backup plan. We get them in from Keith and Eric, we edit them when we get a chance, we put them through layout and put them online ASAP.
I think the question was directed at me.
My "backup plan" is the way I'm running this campaign. Instead of a weekly 4 hour session that takes 4-5 sessions per module I'm running this campaign as a monthly 12 hour session per module. I was planning to trim a lot of the background setup and, in true Eberron spirit, focus on cinematic action, Indiana Jones style.
The first adventure is very good. You really don't have to have any interesting ties to use it. So far, the Sasserine backdrop article really isn't needed. You can very quickly go from an assault on a ship to an escort through a guarded vault to a 'caved in' scenario with zombies to a fight your way out of the middle of a thieves guild (using the Crucible). It's a lot of great action that doesn't need a lot of backdrop setup to appreciate it.
Will all of the adventures be like this? Probably not, but it sounds like most of them will.
As a side note, last week our group started a daily play by email to kick off the campaign. While I don't think you need a lot of background roleplaying to get into the action the adventurers have already done a lot of investigation and interviews around Sasserine.
As for conversion notes, please see my Expanded Eberron Conversion Notes thread.
We have all the notes in now, but we also have a deadline at the end of the week and a magazine in dire need of attention before then. As a result, it looks like the conversions will be up sometime early next week. If, by some sort of miracle, we finish this issue early, we might get them online by the end of the week.
Remember, there aren't as many editors working on Dungeon as you might think.
And I would like to apologize to everyone for not getting them in sooner. I'm already working on notes for #2, so I hope not to slow things down again.
--Eric