Well just to prove to you all how powerful D&D can be. The other day I was teaching an ESL (English as a Second Language) class over here in china. I asked the class what they did the other day and they told me they played video games. I asked what kind they were and they were all fantasy games. Then I asked if they heard of D&D and they did. I had the most interactive english speaking session I have ever had with that group for about 30 minutes as we discussed D&D and the various fantasy realities that it spawned. Just something to think about.
P.S. The principal was impressed too.
later
D&D is an excellent teaching tool. I would challenge all teachers out there to use it as a way to encourage reading, writing, and creativity. I have seen it in action several times:
1. My cousin is dyslexic, and has a difficulty learning. D&D drove him to improve handwriting, reading skills, creativity and even math skills.
2. Gary Gygax had an interest in this at one time; when i met him at GenCon one year, I asked about it, and he told me a bunch of stories about what he had heard about it as a teaching tool, which were told to him.
3. I know a guy in Taiwan who has a large group of players trying to get into his games; from what i understand it can be very helpful as a teaching tool to even adults.
4. I know I began to read more as a D&D player; and I still read alot now, and not just D&D books.
I'm a senior in high school in an advanced english class
In our vocab books there are always 20 new words to study. Over the course of the year some of the words we have used included Bane, Abberation, Gargantuan, Ad hoc, Melee, and others I can't recall.
I always thought our vocab was really easy for advanced english but now that I think about it I can't pinpoint any time I've ever heard these words outside of D&D. So I know D&D has helped me on many tests.
For those of you that have read any other posts of mine I'll admit that if spelling was a big part of advanced english I probably wouldn't be there
Being in Quebec, I can tell you first hand that D&D (or Roleplaying games in general) are the ultimate way for children to develope laguage, spelling and vocabulary skills.
Also good for MATH skills (algebra, for example), GEOGRAPHY skills (you learn to read maps), INTERPERSONAL skills (doing an oral exam in front of a class is a piece of cake when you're used to DMing!), LOGIC, CREATIVITY, ARTS, MEMORY, MACGYVERISMS, the list can go on and on.
It's the best thing in the world!!
Ultradan
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Hi there,
as some of you know by now, I am from Germany.
My english skills at school were mediocre. Then I found the german edition of AD&D 2nd edition and started to dm the Dragonlance Chronicle Adventures (they had the coolest picture on the cover). The adventures were based on the homonymous novels the german translations being considerably more expensive than the english original - an easy choice for a boy being financially limited by his weekly allowance.
It took a lot of research in dictionary but I got hooked up. Three weeks later after my summer vacation the book was read and my transition to a "D&D nerd" completed. ;-)
After that vacation for some reason the "entry hurdle" was gone. I never shied away from english books any more. I still prefer german D&D books over english ones, but that is only due to the effort needed to translate everything for my german D&D group. Most of the books are only available in english anyway, and so my mediocre english skills at school grew to mediocre speaking skills... thanks to TSR/ WotC.
So in short: D&D helped me to develop the english skills you are reading now. I will never outshine people who actually spent some time in an english speaking country, but I was told that my grammar and spelling were up to native speaker level - thanks to D&D.
Greetings from Germany,
Guenther
P.S.
Another side effect: One thing in common to most non native speakers: during play your "home language" is replaced by an odd mixture of your native language and english rule book terms. ;-)
I arrived in the U.S. from Germany in 1978, at age 11, with only a smattering of English skills. I was dumped into American Public School "cold-turkey."
I started playing AD&D within a year of arriving in the U.S. and while I already spoke English fairly well by that point, the reading and interaction, plus the drive to write my own adventures, rapidly improved my English skills.
Guenther, I'm originally from Waldbroel, about 50km from Cologne, im Oberbergischen Kreis. Last time I was in Germany was in 2002. I still speak German, but I would have a very hard time running a game in German, although I would probably do okay playing in one.
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Guenther, I'm originally from Waldbroel, about 50km from Cologne, im Oberbergischen Kreis. Last time I was in Germany was in 2002. I still speak German, but I would have a very hard time running a game in German, although I would probably do okay playing in one.
Hello Farewell2kings,
that is funny, for I live in Cologne. :-) Btw. my parents live even somewhat closer to your original home place in Rösrath/ Oberbergischer Kreis. ;-) Interesting, how you get to know people here from close and afar...
In regards to gaming language: I have to admit that I am part of a minority. People who prefer role playing in german, most often lean towards "Das Schwarze Auge" (DSA, "The Black Eye") - I think that small sibbling of D&D never really made it in the U.S..
Right now I DM a purely german group and play (for the first time in ages!!) in an english speaking group: my DM is from Finland, my co-players are from Indonesia, England, and Germany. For that reason our gaming language in that group is english.;-)
Actually my speaking skills kept on improving, too, since joining that group. ;-)
I will never be able to make the transition to english in my own group: some of my co-players' english skills are not good enough, and I have to admit that it is easier for me and my players to delve into a fantasy setting if you use the language, your childhood's Grimms', Anderssen's, Bechstein's Tales, and Sagas were written in...
Off topic:
Is it true, that D&D experiences such a huge boost at your place? Unfortunately D&D players here seem to fight a losing battle...
Greetings from Cologne,
Guenther
P.S.
Playing D&D in german is not that hard if you are accustomed to the original: the rules translation is 100% literal, just some expressions sound a bit weird in german:
Sorcerer = Hexenmeister
Feat = Talent
If you should visit Cologne again: you are welcome to join. :-)
Isn't roleplaying great? Canadians, Americans, Germans, and all others... These messageboards are the "world peace" humans have been looking for all these years. Man I love these messageboards!
Ultradan
Ultradan--you wouldn't be talking about world peace if you read some of the threads where I inadverdently brought politics and music download laws into the mix. I'm going to to resolve to stay out of such arguments in 2006--I should know better.
Guenther, I remembered that you were from Cologne when I read your thread complaining about the slow delivery times of Dungeon magazine in Germany. I didn't chime in at that time, but this time I did. My wife also plays, we'd love to join your game for a one-time visit next time we're in Germany. My wife loves everything about Cologne, except the pidgeons. She climbed all the steps up the Koelner Dom on a bad ankle.
Now I've got two gaming groups to say hello to in Germany--Drider's and Guennarr's! Maybe my Texas drawl will liven up Guenther's game in particular....I don't know if they'll even understand my English, ha ha.
I never knew that this game or roleplaying in general has such an impact on people when it comes to language. WOW!
I thought maybe this was a rarity,, Glad it isn't!
As for World peace, maybe politicians should roleplay each other and then they can see each other's points of view, but then again, maybe not.
Later
I figured D&D was worth about 20 or 30 points on my verbal SAT score.
I mean, seriously... I learned 'charisma' and 'dexterity' when I was five years old.
That can't hurt.
I'm an Australian teacher who has found that D&D is a fantastic educational tool. Of course, given the perception of D&D in the general community, it sometimes must be used surreptitiously.
On a side note, I have a bit of a problem with people I know mispronouncing key D&D words. The common one they all have a problem with is paladin. They usually stress the syllables incorrectly.
D&D taught me how to use the word "myriad." Boy was I smarty pants in my early teens.
And does anyone know why roleplaying is so great at teaching stuff?
Beacause it's interesting!!!
If schools had material that was only half as interesting as this, every student would have 90%+ grades.
Only my opinion.
Ultradan
I would urge you all to think of the benifits of the game in even broader terms. RPGs integrate all of the courses of study that comprise the humanities, primarily because the event of gaming is based in a community setting. To account for a virtual world, literature regarding all aspects of society has been written not basely to confer plusses and minuses to a die roll, but to encompass and integrate point of perspective. Community-based RPGs both allow and dictate growth of not only the individual, but the group of players involved. This is the single largest distinction between the genres of tabletop gaming and computer gaming. With the possible exception of MUDs, interactive computer gaming is an individualized experience. This is primarily due to the medium through which an individual approaches the game.
I liken this foil to that of the story and the novel in Literature. I'll thumbnail the idea:
Historically, data transmission has chiefly been disseminated through the oral tradition...by storytellers (community based). With the rise of the novel and now what we consider news, the experience of data transfer has become individualized and personalized.
In short, the USE of the story was fundamentally changed from community appropriated experiences to data sets of information.
Tabletop gaming allows for an individual gamer to consider more than just his/her point of perspective - in fact, the community setting dictates it.
Anyway, there are several books that are worthy of note on this topic as well...check out the philosophy of gaming type literature that has been recently published.
As ever,
ACE
It's amazing how interest in D&D can lead to improved learning in other subjects - I always like reading about things like this. Helps dispel the "RPGs are bad" myths that get shoved in our face every now and then.
It's amazing how interest in D&D can lead to improved learning in other subjects - I always like reading about things like this. Helps dispel the "RPGs are bad" myths that get shoved in our face every now and then.
Yeah! Myth Busted!!
Ultradan
Yeah! Myth Busted!!
Ultradan
Busted busted busted.
And while we're at it, I reject this reality and substitute my own.
Quack, damn you!!
Quack, damn you!!
Here's a fun question...how often have the MythBusters inspired an adventure out of you? The Archimedes Death Ray was a recent one, for me.
Oh, and before I totally derail this topic, I did manage to get away with reading quite a few D&D books in English class, especially those that were heavy in flavor/fluff.
Oh, and before I totally derail this topic, I did manage to get away with reading quite a few D&D books in English class, especially those that were heavy in flavor/fluff.
Tisk, tisk...you'll never memorize the lineage and names of every character in Beowulf that way. Nor will you be able to recite from memory the first 60 lines of Canterbury Tales in Middle English. BTW, the two most useless assignments in my scholarly studies in English Lit and I finished my Masters last year!
As ever,
ACE
Tisk, tisk...you'll never memorize the lineage and names of every character in Beowulf that way. Nor will you be able to recite from memory the first 60 lines of Canterbury Tales in Middle English. BTW, the two most useless assignments in my scholarly studies in English Lit and I finished my Masters last year!
As ever,
ACE
Does having to pronounce the first few lines in Canterbury Tales in Middle English count?
Managed to get great teachers for my AP Lit/AP Western Civ classes (both classes were taught in conjunction with each other at the same time). Lots of Joseph Campbell, creation & hero myths. Great base for D&D.
I teach English 10 and 12. We're studying Beowulf now in 12. Lord of the Rings is next.
I would love to take a small class and start a campaign. We'd meet for a 90 minute period and game five days a week. I'd incorporate outside reading assignments. The PHB would be first, then novels, poems, and short stories pertaining to the fantasy genre, drawing connections to the campaign, and building an appreciation for the genre as a whole. Paper assignments would entail character bios, journal entries, and responses to the outside readings. That would be a total dream come true for me. It would take some convincing and the thought that it could work in your school, but it's possible. I would do it right.
I know I began to read more as a D&D player; and I still read alot now, and not just D&D books.
That's my case too. I read "The Lords of the Rings" because of D&D, and that introduced me to the world of books.
My english skills at school were mediocre. Then I found the german edition of AD&D 2nd edition and started to dm the Dragonlance Chronicle Adventures (they had the coolest picture on the cover). The adventures were based on the homonymous novels the german translations being considerably more expensive than the english original - an easy choice for a boy being financially limited by his weekly allowance.
It took a lot of research in dictionary but I got hooked up. Three weeks later after my summer vacation the book was read and my transition to a "D&D nerd" completed. ;-)
After that vacation for some reason the "entry hurdle" was gone. I never shied away from english books any more. I still prefer german D&D books over english ones, but that is only due to the effort needed to translate everything for my german D&D group. Most of the books are only available in english anyway, and so my mediocre english skills at school grew to mediocre speaking skills... thanks to TSR/ WotC.
So in short: D&D helped me to develop the english skills you are reading now. I will never outshine people who actually spent some time in an english speaking country, but I was told that my grammar and spelling were up to native speaker level - thanks to D&D.
Greetings from Germany,
GuentherP.S.
Another side effect: One thing in common to most non native speakers: during play your "home language" is replaced by an odd mixture of your native language and english rule book terms. ;-)
I’m from Mexico, and D&D also helped me to develop my English skills. In school, my Spanish teacher (irony) was my first DM. He was my first link to D&D, and since then, I’ve been a fan! I’ve bought many books, and as they were only in English, I had no choice. Now, there are D&D books in Spanish, but I prefer them in English (though, its hard to find them here in Mexico, so I have to bring them from USA).
About the P.S., 100% true. Every time I DM a session, I always speak in a strange mixture of English and Spanish, as some book terms are sometimes hard to translate (continuing your examples):
Mage, magician and wizard = Mago
Sorcerer and spellcaster (and sometimes warlock)= Hechicero
Fey, fairy, sprite, pixie = Hada
I can’t find a proper translation to “Cast” (a spell). It may be throw, shoot, jump, push, knock, etc. So I invented a new Spanish verb: “Castear”.
In our vocab books there are always 20 new words to study. Over the course of the year some of the words we have used included Bane, Abberation, Gargantuan, Ad hoc, Melee, and others I can't recall.
I’ve also learned lots of words thanks to D&D, which has been very useful in English classes.
I owe too much to D&D in many aspects of my life, and I’m glad to hear that you guys also have.
Greetings from Mexico, “Adiós”.
Ernesto M.
Ernesto....over half of my gaming buddies in high school were Spanish speakers and we had an odd mixture of languages every now and then. I live in El Paso...I don't know where you live in Mexico but if you ever get a chance to be in El Paso on a Saturday when we game, you'd be very welcome to join our group. My wife speaks Spanish and loves D&D as well. My e-mail is farewell2kings (at) gmail (dot) com
Guenther, if you read this, drop me an e-mail as well if you like.
Mmmmmm? A D&D Campaign to teach english? Well I would go for it and I could probably convince my principal, but the problem i think would be to convince the owners of the school. As well we have no books to access on the topic, i.e. players handbook and monster's manual and the DMG. Although i am sure i could try and find some way to do it. I know of at least 8 kids that would enjoy it. Maybe i can use it for my elective class I have to teach? yeah, D&D 101?
Who knows? Good thinng I haven't put in that request yet.
As for mythbusted. Damn Straight!!!!
p.s. Has anyone ever seen that movie with Tom Hanks in it about D&D? (yes completely off topic i know:()
I would suggest it as more of a literature class rather than a language arts class (involving grammar and vocab). An after-school activity club would probably work better, but a gaming session normally lasts longer than the average class period.
Honestly, I would be surprised if the administration of any school allowed D&D in the classroom, especially if the school board, the parents, or the faculty are staunch religious devotees.
An after-school activity club would probably work better.
Honestly, I would be surprised if the administration of any school allowed D&D in the classroom, especially if the school board, the parents, or the faculty are staunch religious devotees.
Check!
Yeah, I guess elective is the wrong word. What they want me to do is have something for the kids to do after school for about an hour or so every few days. So I guess it could be considered a club.As for D&D in the Classroom. The board is happy as long as the children are learning english and talking in English. OF course I guess they will draw the line somewhere but I don't think it is any worse then what most of the kids do on the weekends. THey will spend all day Saturday and Sunday on their computers playing WarCraft III and World Of Warcraft.
Zombies no longer scare me now that I have seen Asian teenagers on caffeine and no sleep!
later and thanks for the tips.
P.S. Anyone know where I can get a ready made adventure. I really am going to pitch this idea.
get them away from those nasty computers on the weekend.
Anyone know where I can get a ready made adventure. I really am going to pitch this idea.
get them away from those nasty computers on the weekend.
I imagine Dungeon magazine is an excellent source of adventures. ;-P
This is an excellent idea, and has worked at the school system here in Bend, Oregon as an after-school get together. Encourages creative thinking and cooperation - always a good thing. (The county library even has copies of the core rulebooks - a far cry from 10 years ago.)
Man, I wish my school had this kind of programe back in my days. A D&D game in class (or even after school)... Wow!
Teach them great new words like "portcullis", "burgomeister" and "bec-de-corbin"... and make any 10 year old sound like a genius.
I love this!!!
Ultradan
As I already said, a while ago my teacher started an after-class D&D club. It worked pretty well, and my literature teacher even gave us extra points in our grades just for playing D&D! I support all your ideas to incorporate D&D to school, you would make many kids very happy.
Well I thank you for all the support ladies and Gents. Now I have another favour to ask. As I am writing up my proposal for this club, I was wondering if you would be okay using your quotes from this message board. If not, that is okay too, and for others I will use your actual name and some will be known as "anonymous". Sorry Sexi Golem but I don't think that that particular name really belongs on an academic document trying to show how D&D can improve the students. No offense meant. Just I think it lacks a certain professionalism.
Hope I don't offend anyone, as i think all the names are great it is just, again, the board may not.
IF you don't want to be used as a quote I can completely understand.
Thanks again.
later.
If you want to see a preview of the document that I will submit to the principal, please feel free to drop me a line and i can send you a word document version of it. I would also welcome a second opinion on it as well.
Later
rhaegal@hotmail.com
Feel free to use my posts. I have no problem with it. Good luck!
Sexifarewell2kings
PS: If you run a game for your Chinese ESL students based on Western European mythology from the Dark or Middle Ages, they'd get language and an exposure to another culture's mythology at the same time. That would be cool and might be another selling point. Chinese students playing Viking sorcerors and Saxon warriors!
I learned a lot about oriental cultures from playing in an OA campaign in the 80's run by a very knowledgable DM.
Feel free to use any quotes that I may have given that may be useful.
A highly useful resource is d20srd.org. All the Open Gaming materials in the SRD (plus a little more) is listed there and is great if you don't have the books handy (or unavailable).
By far, I think the biggest impact D&D, and roleplaying games in general, has had for me is the encouragement of non-linear thinking and as a creative gold mine. You're given a situation that you must think of a way to solve it and maybe the standard solutions won't work. (Non-linear thinking is a real boon in the computer & programming field - some problems just can't be solved in the tried & true methods.) Computer games are mostly linear in the way they present a story (if they have one, that is). Don't get me wrong, I love computer games, but there is not one built that been able to capture the joys, the fears, the intensity, the pressure of a critical moment and the sheer freedom that a pen & paper game has been able to do (IMHO, of course). I'm pretty sure that there are many writers & artists out there that have been inspired by RPGs in many forms (because really, the GM/DM is the writer :P ). I know that I'm constantly inspired by my players to draw up the latest scene from last game - and I'm pretty darn sure that many of the popular artists that make appearances on Dungeon & Dragon magazines have their own stories to tell about the games they've played.
RPGs also encourage teamwork & social skills (no, really!). Any player who's been in a group with a good GM will find out that going the solo route in game is not always the best route. Teamwork in a game is sometimes the only way the characters will survive. Communication skills are great (how many times have you screwed something up for your character if you didn't state something clearly?), mathematical skills, reading - the list goes on and on...
All that is very true, I'm french and without AD&D in the 80's I wouldn't be able to write what you're reading now and read what is on this board without some studies (I didn't made).
In my last year of school, when I was 17, I finished first in english without studdying more (i.e, not very much).
The group I play with has begun play for the most part 15 to 20 years ago and we play with the english version even there is french translation since those old days.
It's a gaming english but I can read the Herald Tribune without difficulty unless there is specific words.
ADD or DD really teach English, and also knowledge of religious history of our world, Egypt, Aztec, India, Viking, numerous ways to see the beliefs and wars of today as some small things (nonetheless important) in the flow of time.
You go right ahead and use any or all of my quotes.
I only have a question, though... Over there, in China, will they they have to read "Occidental Adventures" to play regular D&D?
Ultradan
p.s. Has anyone ever seen that movie with Tom Hanks in it about D&D? (yes completely off topic i know:()
Well, a friend of mine digged Mazes and Monsters out a while ago. We couldn´t bring ourselves to watch it fully, its horrible and full of the usual old prejudice against gaming... It is from 1982, and according to imdb, Tom Hanks seems not to acknowledge his participation in it. go figure...
Oh yes it does.
I am another English-as-second-language person here and while I was learning English in school I started to read in my free time books and magazines in English when I was around 14 years old.
Of course my skill in language got significantly better and also when my teachers found out about these extra-curricular activities (if there were some words I didn't understand and couldn't find in the dictionary I went to ask them) it didn't hinder the grades :)
The gaming jargon indeed sounds even stranger in another language when it is peppered with English terms and abbreviations in real or mutated form...
If you want to see a preview of the document that I will submit to the principal, please feel free to drop me a line and i can send you a word document version of it. I would also welcome a second opinion on it as well.
Laterrhaegal@hotmail.com
Alasanii - if you need a second look, you can send it my way. I'm an Associate Editor for a major scientific book and journals publisher.
ajg965@studentmail.umsl.eduAs ever,
ACE
P.S.
Playing D&D in german is not that hard if you are accustomed to the original: the rules translation is 100% literal, just some expressions sound a bit weird in german:
Sorcerer = Hexenmeister
Feat = TalentIf you should visit Cologne again: you are welcome to join. :-)
If you want to think of a really odd language situation look at this:
I am a French-speaking Belgian, but live in Berlin. I used to DM and my players were two Germans and a Welsh guy. Since the only language spoken by all is German, I DMed in my funny German with my French accent and using the rules in English. So it is a really funny soup of languages when I announced that "Der Gobelin Hexenmeister wirft drei Magic Missiles in deine Richtung". I really wonder how the two Germans put up with me... ;-)
On top of that, all their characters, familiars and animal companions had Welsh names because they found them pretty and fitting for a fantasy setting...
Fortunately I am now a player and one of the two Germans took up the DM role.
Bocklin
Now I have another favour to ask. As I am writing up my proposal for this club, I was wondering if you would be okay using your quotes from this message board. If not, that is okay too, and for others I will use your actual name and some will be known as "anonymous".
Sure, if they can be useful, I'd certainly like my posts to be of some help.
Thank you all for the great words of encouragement and ideas. So far the I have had some pretty keen interest in it as a club. As for having to use oriental adventures....hmmm....I am not sure if that would be needed. But I am sure it wouldn't hurt.
later
Off to teach!
Hook Line and Sinker! They went for it. Come the beginning of the next semester I will be offering a D&D weekend Gaming session for the students at the school. The Principal is all for it and the board has backed him up.
A Special thanks to Theacemu for helping with the bugs in the proposal and to everyone else for lending your voice to the cause.
Later!
Aint Life Sweet!
Hook Line and Sinker! They went for it. Come the beginning of the next semester I will be offering a D&D weekend Gaming session for the students at the school. The Principal is all for it and the board has backed him up.
A Special thanks to Theacemu for helping with the bugs in the proposal and to everyone else for lending your voice to the cause.Later!
Aint Life Sweet!
That's awesome!! Congratulations....I hope your students have a great and educational time....
I will use your actual name and some will be known as "anonymous". Sorry Sexi Golem but I don't think that that particular name really belongs on an academic document trying to show how D&D can improve the students. No offense meant. Just I think it lacks a certain professionalism.
IF you don't want to be used as a quote I can completely understand.
Don't worry I know where you're comming from if you'd rather use this Micah B. (my name) please do.
I'm a high school student currently and if anything I said might be used to put D&D in schools I would consider it an honor.
Alasani, Godspeed
Hook Line and Sinker! They went for it. Come the beginning of the next semester I will be offering a D&D weekend Gaming session for the students at the school. The Principal is all for it and the board has backed him up.
A Special thanks to Theacemu for helping with the bugs in the proposal and to everyone else for lending your voice to the cause.Later!
Aint Life Sweet!
Whoops guess I should have read all the posts first.
Good job! Now come to my school.
Just like Ultradan, I live in Québec, and even if my english writing and speaking skills aren't top-notch, I'm able to read anything in english, just like if it was in french, thanks to all the RPGs I've played in the last 10 years.
I also have the same problem than Guennar: we have french D&D books here, but they're much more expensive than the english ones. I try to get the french ones when I can, but usually I go for the originals, since a lot of them aren't traducted. But, then again, I have to traduct everything to my english-illiterated friends!
Just my 2 cents!
Et un gros salut à mes concitoyens!
-CéPé
Just like Ultradan, I live in Québec... Et un gros salut à mes concitoyens!
-CéPé
What part of Québec do you live? I'm in Montréal.
Ultradan
Hook Line and Sinker! They went for it. Come the beginning of the next semester I will be offering a D&D weekend Gaming session for the students at the school. The Principal is all for it and the board has backed him up.
A Special thanks to Theacemu for helping with the bugs in the proposal and to everyone else for lending your voice to the cause.Later!
Aint Life Sweet!
EXCELLENT! Fantastic!