As a refreshment pause, my Group has exit Jzadirune to buy some cure potions to Jenya. They had inform what had find so far, and came back to the Vanishing city (as I like to call it).
Anyway, now I'm planning to send Alek Tercival to arrest Keygan Ghelve for his involvement in the kidnaping affair. But I don't know how to handle it. My point is that I don't want to confront Alek with the PC, on the contrary, I do it to introduce him to them, and as a RP opportunity. Any of you has a some insight on this? Thanks.
PS: Sorry for my bad english.
I would have Alex make some mention of the fact that he's a Paladin, just so the PCs know that he's one of the good guys.
Maybe something like "As a Knight of St Cuthbert, I hereby arrest you Keygan Ghelve in the name of the City of Cauldon."
Then if they question what's going on, he can tell them that Ghelve is being charged with "Aiding and abetting numerous counts of kidnapping."
Could work. Maybe.
sorry for my nosyness (and also my bad english:), but where are you from Mobuttu?
In my campaign the party has and is still clearing out Jhaz whilst they have Ghelve housed at their friendly Inn, under watched of a paid guard. They intend on handing him into the Town guard but only once they have secured the recovery of his pet. At that stage they will meet Alex.
However they do feel rather sorry for him as he was put under the situation with a certain amount of duress and as such will support his legal costs and push for some lenancy in the court.
In game terms if they Roleplay it well enough Ghelve will get house arrest and as further punishment be forced to make new locks for the locations in town that have been broken into. They will most likely have many opportunities to interact with Alex at the trial (should they continue along their current path and attend etc).
It's funny, my party never even seemed to consider turning Ghelve in to the authorities. They got his familiar back, called it duress, and went on with the SCAP.
Currently Ghelve's Locks is being remodelled and renamed "Gateway to Jzadirune and Gift Shop."
My party is 1/3 of the way through test of the smoking eye, but they to felt sympathy for Keygan and sought leniancy for him. He spent several months on probation, and replacing locks for Cauldron. When the party rogue decided to go into the security business he contracted Keygan for all of his locksmithing needs. He also hired Jill as a guard. Of course he doesnt know her full back story yet. Oh what fun that will be.
Anyway, now I'm planning to send Alek Tercival to arrest Keygan Ghelve for his involvement in the kidnaping affair. But I don't know how to handle it. My point is that I don't want to confront Alek with the PC, on the contrary, I do it to introduce him to them, and as a RP opportunity. Any of you has a some insight on this? Thanks.
PS: Sorry for my bad english.
Why not use Skylar Krewis? He's a sergent in the town guard, making the arest legitimate. You can set him up as a good guy by making him compasionate, and have him promis to see that Keygan gets a fair trail.
If you want to introduce Alek, it's probably best to do so when he's in the company of Jenya. You allready established her as a good guy, lending legitimacy to Alek. And Alek could speak on Keygan's behalf at the trial.
Some of the characters have rooms in inns but they are staying at Ghelve's lock since 2 days to watch the exit, they wanted to help Keygan escape the authorities, Skylar went with a patrol to see what was going on (Jenya told him about the problem) and spoke with them.
Keygan was fearful of the authorities but also of the gang and he told them that he would ask a friend of him, Maavu, to help going out of town.
Unfortunatly, I had Skylar arrest him after making a rapport to the captain, Keygan is jailed for 6 month now and they know this by Jenya.
With this story I introduced Skylar, Maavu and the fact that there is a strong law in Cauldron, they already heard about Alek Tercival, he is outside town.
My party turned him over to the authorities (Skylar) but have mentioned that they are not sure how much he should be punished. I intend to have Vhlantru insist on a harsh punishment - hanging or some such.
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In one campaign it was a very heart rending event... as Keygans alignment is Lawful, he gave himself up to the Church of St. Cuthbert, after Starbrow was ruturned to him. The group tied to persuade him, to forget about it and to turn a blind eye to it, but he did not move from his point of view.
Jenya was very understanding, but Rufus very insistent about his wrongdoings. (I play them like that in both groups I am running through the SCAP, though one is one hiatus at the moment, because I am not the sole DM of the group and we are playing in another setting). He has been transferred to the jail of the town guard and the trial will be th first thing, when our group will return to Cauldron.
The other group mentioned Keygans involvement to Rufus and the locksmith was immediately arrested and sentenced to labor in the quarries around Cauldron (our half-orc barbarian runs one of those).
With my group, things came to a surprising end, as the party leader - a neutral evil wizard - came down very harshly on Keygan for his part in the kidnappings. The wizard went out of his way to speak during Keygan's trial, and gave an empassioned account of how the gnome's actions had resulted in the loss of a dozen fine citizens of Cauldron to Underdark slavers (these being the people that were never found in the Malachite Fortress).
The speech was so eloquent, that I gave him a +4 bonus to his diplomacy roll, which turned out to be a natural 19. Add in all his modifiers, and the total diplomacy check was in the mid-thirties. The jury was in love with the wizard, and just about ready to do anything he asked.
Imagine my surprise when the wizard then called for a very special punishment for Keygan Ghelve, one that he as a wizard knew would teach him a lesson worse than any other - the public execution, via beheading, of his familiar, Starbrow! The jury was swayed and the execution set for the following day at high noon. Keygan (also sentenced to a year's jail time) fainted from utter shock...
Quite the fun and memorable turn of events, I must say.
Incidentally, you can read up on this and the rest of my group's adventures at http://shackledoutsiders.blogspot.com
Markus, I just have to say that, after reading a majority of "The Outsiders" adventures, you really have a great group of role-players.
Wow. Very good ideas.
I'll use both Skyllar and Alek. This let me introduce both characters at once. I plan to roleplay them comprehensive but inflexible as Keygan has clearly bronken the law. I expect (I hope so actually) PC to help him lessen his punishment.
Range of punishments (depending on the arguments used and the Diplomacy check):
DC 0-5 - Pain of Death for him.
DC 5-10 - Pain of death for Starbrow.
DC 10-15 - 1 year in jail.
DC 15-20 - 1 year in Redgorge quarry.
DC 20-25 - Replace town locks.
DC >25 - Not guilty.
Diplomacy bonus:
+4 Good speech.
+2 Evidence on starbrow kiddnapings.
+2 For not opposing to arrest.
+2 For any-not-foreseen-good-evidence-PC-can-bring.
sorry for my nosyness (and also my bad english:), but where are you from Mobuttu?
I'm from Catalonia (Spain) :P
I'm going through this situation right now. Keygan was turned over to the Church of St. Cuthburt and the PCs were informed that the worst case scenario would be that he would be found guilty of treason and executed. But is that right? What would be the charges put against him?
Keygan is the uncle of the rogue among my players. They have not turned him in per se, but have disclosed his involvement to Jenya when reporting back to her during the course of their exploration of Jzadirune and the Malachite Fortress. They seem to be on the verge of probably saving those that can be saved from the slavers. I'm thinking that Jenya will tell the player characters that Keygan must turn himself in, and that they can speak on his behalf regarding mitigating circumstances, but that he must stand trial for his misdeeds even though coerced. Who do you think would judge the case? I'm thinking of having a panel of three judge the case: Terseon Skellerang as Captain of the Guard, Jenya on behalf of Sarcem, since St. Cuthbert is the god of Law, and a third person. I have not decided if the third person should be the Lord Mayor himself (especially given the high profile of the crime), or someone on the Lord Mayor's behalf (perhaps even Valantru?). Any suggestions as to this, or ideas for making the trial interesting and memorable? Also, I'm thinking that Keygan will be arrested quickly, but that it might be some time before the trial takes place. I'm thinking of having the trial take place after Flood Season during the rainy winter months.
Keygan has become an ally of the party, so perhaps they will find him a barrister for the trial. Maybe it can be the gnome barrister who lost a law clerk to the kidnappings, but they must convince him to forgive Keygan his role in the law clerk's fate. There seems to be some nice potential for role playing along these lines with the trial.
Yes, the third person should be a representative of the church of Wee Jas, since Wee Jas and St. Cuthburt share purpose in supporting the law.
If a point of contention comes up in the trial, clerics from either church would be willing to cast certain divinations, such as zone of truth, speak with dead and divination to discern fact in the trial. I still haven't decided if this is a service they provide for the city for free (since it's part of their purpose), or only for plaintif or defendants that can afford them.
Good idea on Wee Jaas. At this early stage Embril Aloustani is still around, or Ike Iverson can attend in her stead. It introduces the characters to one or both of these NPCs and the rival Church.
Well, I used your idea combined with mine and set up a judging triad that included Terseron, Jenya, and Ike Iverson. Ike started with an argument for execution (and rolled well on his diplomacy score). Jenya proposed that he should be punished, but he was redemable. The PCs testified on Keygan's defense (but their assisted diplomacy check didn't beat Ike's.) The triad adjorned for two hours, came back and delivered the punishment of Keygan paying each victim or their family 50 gp and an apology, changing all of his locks in town for no charge, and a year of indentured servitude to the city. Harsh but better than what it could have been. Keygan accepted the punishment with grace and thanked the PCs for their support.
I decided to use a Tribunal system to handle trials for any "felony" level crime in Cauldron, and that the members of the tribunal would consist of: The high priest/ess of a major church (chosen randomly by lottery), the head of a noble household (also chosen by lottery), and the Lord Mayor or his designated representative (commonly the Captain of the City Guard, though he can choose anyone he wishes for this purpose). The Lord Mayor only sits the tribunal on the most high-profile cases, of course. I haven't gone through it yet, and am considering lending gravity to the trial's profile by having the Lord Mayor sit the trial. The other members will be Lord Vhalantru (for the nobility) and Embril Aloustinai (Church of Wee-Jas). I plan on Embril being cold and unforgiving, recommending the extreme (execution for treason), but Vhalantru pushing for leniency (the nice-guy charade, and to keep the city authorities from looking into the situation any more deeply). With the lord mayor in his "pocket," and Embril a quiet ally, Vhalantru won't have much trouble swaying the decision in his direction, thus coming out looking like someone the PCs can trust. Keygan will probably come away IMC much as he has in some others mentioned - house arrest, and required to replace all of his locks in town with new ones, possibly along with a heavy fine. Anyone have any suggestions or see any holes in the way I've got this set up?
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I decided to use a Tribunal system to handle trials for any "felony" level crime in Cauldron, and that the members of the tribunal would consist of: The high priest/ess of a major church (chosen randomly by lottery), the head of a noble household (also chosen by lottery), and the Lord Mayor or his designated representative (commonly the Captain of the City Guard, though he can choose anyone he wishes for this purpose). The Lord Mayor only sits the tribunal on the most high-profile cases, of course. I haven't gone through it yet, and am considering lending gravity to the trial's profile by having the Lord Mayor sit the trial. The other members will be Lord Vhalantru (for the nobility) and Embril Aloustinai (Church of Wee-Jas). I plan on Embril being cold and unforgiving, recommending the extreme (execution for treason), but Vhalantru pushing for leniency (the nice-guy charade, and to keep the city authorities from looking into the situation any more deeply). With the lord mayor in his "pocket," and Embril a quiet ally, Vhalantru won't have much trouble swaying the decision in his direction, thus coming out looking like someone the PCs can trust. Keygan will probably come away IMC much as he has in some others mentioned - house arrest, and required to replace all of his locks in town with new ones, possibly along with a heavy fine. Anyone have any suggestions or see any holes in the way I've got this set up?
The only problem i see with this is that many if not most people would suspect that such a system could be rigged and Ghelve might get lynched regardless of the outcome or how much restitution he made to the families of the victims. Another thing wouldn't Ghelve protest the fact that the tribunal has no gnomes, only humans?
My tribunal consisted of Jenya for the clergy, Skellerang for the town guard, and Vhalantru for the nobility.
As for Ghelve protesting that there aren't any gnomes on the tribunal council, well... "What's racial equality?" Basically, in a quasi-medieval society the concepts of racial equality and democracy haven't been realized yet.
I'm now working in an adaptition of Duel of Wits (from Burning wheel RPG) to D&D in order to roleplay the trial appropiately...I don't know if it's going to work, but I'll give it a try...
I'm now working in an adaptition of Duel of Wits (from Burning wheel RPG) to D&D in order to roleplay the trial appropiately...I don't know if it's going to work, but I'll give it a try...
OK. I finally have played this scene. I forgot about playing it with the BW Duel of Wits rules (too much rules introduction), and went to the "advanced roleplaying" aproaching. That is, I passed to the players some roleplaying tips for Terseon Skellerak (Guard captain playing as D.A.), Keyghan Ghelve and Alek Tercival (as defense attorney). While me, playing Jenya Urikas (judge) wrote down guilty/not guilty arguments. Then, we played a trial (I told them that the winner will get more XP than the looser >).Using the following table I (Jenya Urikas) could stablish the appropiate punishment:
Punishment table (count not guilty vs guilty arguments):
-2; Guilty. Death Sentence. Ghelve house will be demolished and entrace to Jzadirune blocked forever.
-1; Guilty. 1 year in jail. 50 gp fee to every family of the victims. During this year Ghleve's house will the sealed.
0; Guilty. 1 year in Redgorge quarry. He must replace all his locks in the city. During this year Ghleve's house will the sealed.
+1; Not Guilty. He must replace all his locks in the city.
+2; Not Guilty. Set him free.
I had Keygen found guilty and executed (chained and then thrown in the lake). The Mayor gave a speech and mentioned evil afoot in the city and that harsh actions were going to be necessary (foreshadow of the tax increases). Vhalantru introduced the PCs to the town as a force for good. Vhlantru is setting up the PCs so that he can use them later. The may be tasked with arresting Maavu at the tax riot or some such.
Some of the players were not in agreement with the harsh punishment. So that gives me a nice bit of conflict I can work on as well.
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My game ended up taking quite a different turn in this regard, but what brought it there requires a bit of explaination.
One of my groups players had a great desire to make a true necromancer character and after a great deal of rationalizing(and outright begging) I allowed him to focus his character in this way even if having a less 'good' character could be difficult in such a campaign. The bigger problem came from the fact that when I was giving a description of the town he instantly latched on to WeeJas as a patron deity. Once the pounding behind my eyes stopped I decided that this could lead to some good RP opportunities further down the road as he started to see some of the corruption in the church. I rationalized him joining a party that also contains a Paladin of St. Cuthbert by giving him a vision that he feels was sent by Wee Jas herself, telling him to go someplace at a specific time. This resulted in him finding the rest of the party saving Rufus Laro and enough other events to make a long story even longer.
Anyway, fastforward through half a chapter of story and you have an uneasy alliance of a ragtag group of adventurers who have yet to really decide themselves a party in any organizational sense(they had yet to define a leader, so still used voting to solve any major decisions that had to be made for the whole). This included just what should be done with Ghelve. The main options seemed to involve sending him to one of the churches until all of this could be sorted out, and after the cleric pointed out the fact that Cuthbert might just have him executed(he is the god of retribution after all) the party came to an uneasy agreement to turn him into the church of Wee Jas for safekeeping.
Since then Ghelve has managed to disapear(he may know too much after all), and the Paladins resulting investigation into the matter has left the Cleric in the uncomfortable posistion of proving his loyalties to both sides.
I used the trial to strengthen the idea that Vhalantru is good and trustworthy and enforce more hatefullness towards the Stormblades.
The party were due to register for their adventurer badges on the Monday and attend the trial on the Wednesday.
It was Saturday morning that Vhalantru contacted them to say that Lord Taskerhill had moved the trial to Saturday, mid-day.
He arranged for their registration to be moved to Saturday morning as they would not be able to give evidence without admitting infront of the court to having been adventuring unregistered.
I let them all give evidence and make their cases for guilty or not guilty. Presiding as judges were Lord Vhalntru, Lord Taskerhill and Lord Vanderboren.
Taskerhill made it known he didn't agree with anything the party said. The party suspect that daddy's little girl had something to do with it.
Vhalantru came down on the party's side as he's in the process of buttering them up.
I allowed Vanderboren to be swayed by the party's RPing and subsequent diplomacy checks.
Well all the party but one considered Keygan guilty and tried to sway the court in that direction. Only one pleaded for leniancy.
Keygan was found guilty, but due to the one excellent plea of leniancy his sentance was reduced from death to banishment.
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I am planning on doing this on Sunday. I will be using a tribunal system as well, with Vhalantru, Lt. Krews (for Skellereng), and one of my PCs sitting for the Church of Saenrae (using Pathfinder)she is a NG Clr/Wiz. Keygan is going to request the party leader, a paladin of Iomedae, represent him. Jenya is going to explain to him that the church desires mercy for Keygan, but perhaps a stiff fine and community service. Vhalantru, sitting for the mayors office, also wants leniency, so I'm going to use this time to introduce him to the PC sitting on the tribunal, as a potential benefactor. Pretty much everyone will want leniency, except Krews, so the PC representing Keygan, I hope, will be able to present a good case, and sway his decidion, if not it will be up to the PC on the tribunal. If they both fail, then the penalty may be tougher than anyone hopes for.
Thanks for a few good ideas folks!!
I ran the trial for my group just this week, and it was a lot of fun, though my group of players didn't disagree as intensely as yours seem to have, Roth. They converged pretty quickly on the view that Ghelve was complicit enough that he should pay a serious penalty, but not die. They seemed to want him to do hard labor. I had the trial decided by a group of five judges with Mayor Navalant presiding; the other judges were Ike Iverson, who I decided would be arrogant, bored, and totally committed to the execution of Ghelve and/or his familiar; Alek Tercival, who I depicted as sympathetic to Ghelve but worried about setting a precedent of tolerating weakness; Ankhin Taskerhill, who took his role as judge seriously but was open to persuasion; and Maavu Arlintal, who was clearly sympathetic to Ghelve and came out strongly for a lenient penalty. (This is a great opportunity to introduce new characters! My players *really* didn't like Iverson.) The trial was over when any three judges agreed on a penalty. I didn't allow lawyers in the legal system; the judges asked the questions and were allowed to make speeches to persuade their peers, as were witnesses. I had a long list of witnesses: Skellerang, to lay out the main details (I also had him announce Ghelve had tried to commit suicide in prison), the headmistress of the Orphanage, the son of one of the kidnapping victims who was still missing, a couple of the recovered victims including a dwarven woman whose husband was still missing and Coryston Pike, and the PC's, who were each allowed to add whatever they want to the record and make a speech suggesting how they think the case should be decided. I had Iverson, Tercival, and Arlintal challenge them from different directions and with different degrees of sympathy. Ultimately I gave those three NPC's Diplomacy rolls (watch out for Arlintal, he has a very high modifier as listed!), also gave checks to any PC's who made a speech with modifiers added on for the quality of the speech, and then made a judgment about how Navalant and Taskerhill would be swayed to vote. I had a list of six possible penalties: (1) Execution of Ghelve, (2) Execution of the familiar, banishment of Ghelve, and seizure of his property, (3) Banishment of Ghelve and seizure of his property, (4) Hard labor in a Redgorge quarry, stiff fines to be paid to survivors and the next of kin of people still missing, and replacement of all his locks at his expense, (5) stiff fines to be paid to survivors and the next of kin of people still missing, and replacement of all his locks at his expense, and finally (6) just replacement of all his locks at his expense. The players pushed for 4, Tercival for 3, Iverson for 1 or 2, and Arlintal for 6. Iverson and Tercival had strong performances on their Diplomacy checks, but our PC bard and Arlintal both had sky-high checks (they each pulled a 38, with Arlintal getting a natural 20), so I had Arlintal pull Taskerhill and Navalant just a bit more to the lenient side than the PC's wanted. They seemed ok with the result, and also seemed to really enjoy the whole process!
In the campaign I GMed, he got off with forfeiting all his goods (I emphasized to my players that rich people can get away with much more than poor people and monsters); Ike Iverson was the prosecutor and Jenya was the advocate for the defense, with the mayor as head magistrate. After that, he moved to Sasserine to live with relatives.
I worked up the following when I ran this event:
Keygan Ghelve’s Trial
Dramatis Personae:
Presiding judge: Severen Navalant, Mayor. Affable, unhappy to have to preside over such a distateful affair. Can be swayed either way by diplomacy.
Other judges: Ike Iverson, priest of Wee Jas. Aloof and bored, set against whatever the party wants.
Lord Ankhin Taskerhill, aristocrat. Takes his role seriously, undecided. Can be swayed by diplomacy.
Maavu Arlintal, businessman. Attentive, sympathetic. Impatient with Iverson. Inclined to be merciful.
Sir Alek Tercival, paladin of St. Cuthbert. Very focused on upholding the law. Sympathetic to Ghelve, but worried about the precedent leniency would set, so resistant to leniency unless persuaded.
Witnesses: Captain Terseon Skellerang, leader of the Town Guard – lays out essentials of the case, suggests there is some question whether the familiar’s peril justified Ghelve’s complicity. Announces that Ghelve tried to commit suicide in prison and has had to be watched closely since.
Gretchynn Tashykk, headmistress of the Lantern Street Orphanage – expresses how terrifying the incident was and how betrayed she feels by Ghelve, but also says she does not want Ghelve to come to harm
Leagan Callagher, 18-yr old human mason, bereaved son of Szordra Callagher – consumed by feelings of anger which are directed at Ghelve for lack of a better target. Has to be constrained at the end of his testimony.
Coryston Pike, retired adventurer – Though she wishes Ghelve had acted differently, she does not blame him for her ordeal, and asks the court to show him mercy.
Sondor Ironfold, bereaved dwarven wife of Lorthan Ironfold – Angry at Ghelve, but above all bereft for her lost husband. She doesn’t see how punishing Ghelve harshly will help her get her husband back, which is all she really cares about.
Party members -- Allowed to add anything they like to the testimony already supplied, and asked their opinions concerning what should happen to Ghelve; if they push for leniency, they are pressured by Iverson (annoyingly) and Tercival (more sympathetically). If they push for harsh penalty, they are pressured by Arlintal.
Keygan Ghelve – Sits quietly with his hands in his lap staring at the ground while the other witnesses speak, on occasion seems to be fighting back tears. When he speaks, he shows deep remorse, sincerely feels awful about his complicity in the crimes the slavery ring committed. Does not himself know whether he deserves mercy, but swears that if he is spared he will work for the rest of his life to make amends.
Results: Any PC who wants to try to sway the judges can make a speech and a Diplomacy check; a good speech can give as much as a +5 to the check. The highest party roll on either side counts. Once all testimony is in, Iverson makes a short speech urging whatever the players don’t want, and gets a Diplomacy check. Arlintal makes a short, passionate speech urging leniency. If no one else pushes for a harsh penalty, Tercival does and gets a Diplomacy check. For every point by which each Diplomacy check beats a DC 15, it sways the judges that far towards a harsher or weaker penalty. When all the results are tallied, determine the outcome on this scale:
Harsh 15+ Ghelve is executed.
Harsh 7-14 Ghelve’s familiar is executed, and he is stripped of property and banished.
Harsh 1-7 Ghelve is stripped of property and banished.
Lenient 0-7 Ghelve is sentenced to one year hard labor in a Redgorge quarry, pays 50 gp to lost citizens’ next of kin and 10 gp to survivors, and replaces all his locks for free.
Lenient 7-14 Ghelve pays 50 gp to lost citizens’ next of kin and 10 gp to survivors, and replaces all his locks for free.
Lenient 15+ Ghelve replaces all his locks for free.
There you go! I haven't written out speeches, but I've given you enough of a direction that you can flesh it out with a bit of imagination. Or, you can just narrate that part to give the gist of how each participant spole and behave. I mostly took it as an opportunity to introduce lots of NPC's the party hadn't met yet.