I was reading the summary of Dragon 339 again, and I noticed that not only are we getting some updated monsters from old campaign settings, but that there are 16 of them. IN ONE ARTICLE. This compiled with the rest of the magazine is probably going to make it one of my favorites.
So, just in inquery, what does everyone think is going to be in this article. It says that it has 16 updated monsters from Greyhawk, Mystara, and Ravenloft. It also mentions that the Animus and Yvart will be there. What else do you think will be there?
yeah, 16 critters is pretty awesome. that article must be at least 10 pages long! :)
as for guessing what's going to be in it, there are *so many* that coule be, it is almost impossible!
More importantly, returns to old campaign settings.
*stares at mailbox*
More importantly, returns to old campaign settings.
*stares at mailbox*
Well, first and foremost was that. That's why I brought this up so late.
I'm hoping to see, in addition to the xvart, the return of the norker, ogrillon, and pech. Greyhawk heavy, but that's me. Maybe they'll do four of each setting. Hmmm.
well, there are only 3 settings involved, so maybe it is split 5/5/6 :)
animus is WoG by the way.
well, there are only 3 settings involved
So far.
The article ran REALLY long, and there are some monsters left over, and I'm hoping we'll continue to convert some of these babies.
i've seen Erik hinting at "Creature Catalog V" if they don't make it into #339. :) i've got a few leftover conversions from "Monsters of the Mind" that i was hoping to see there too (we shall see next year, eh?).
i've seen Erik hinting at "Creature Catalog V" if they don't make it into #339. :) i've got a few leftover conversions from "Monsters of the Mind" that i was hoping to see there too (we shall see next year, eh?).
Well Monsters of the Mind was one of my favorite monster articles so far, so I hope you write more.
What I'm currently looking around for is what Ravenloft monsters seem to be prime for conversion. I'm running a horror game currently, so the more horrific monsters, the better.
Well Monsters of the Mind was one of my favorite monster articles so far, so I hope you write more.
thanks! :) Shade and i have submitted four more articles for review, and we have sent several queries in the last few months, so you (and we) may get your wish. ;)
Well Monsters of the Mind was one of my favorite monster articles so far, so I hope you write more.thanks! :) Shade and i have submitted four more articles for review, and we have sent several queries in the last few months, so you (and we) may get your wish. ;)
Goody!
I think then that you will be happy with what you find. :)What I'm currently looking around for is what Ravenloft monsters seem to be prime for conversion. I'm running a horror game currently, so the more horrific monsters, the better.
Double goody!
(And double post...sorry.)
slightly less than 16 after all... definitely looking forward to the Dusanu, Blindheim, Death's Head Tree, and Xvart among others. :)
For those who don't have it yet, the article includes: Animus, Blindheim, Carrionette, Death's Head Tree, Greyhawk Dragon, Dusanu, Goblyn, Maggot Golem, Suel Lich, Nagpa, Phanaton, and Xvart. 12 monsters in all. Still pretty impressive if I do say so myself. SKR has outdone himself this time. It's the best article I've seen in Dragon since Pazuzu.
I too was impressed. Not sure what I'd do with half of them, but they're cool nontheless.
Nagpa stands out as being one of my favorites. Not just because I recognised him from Shadows Over Mystara, either. No, he's an ANNOYANCE MONSTER! And the very worst kind, the sort that can always find you! AHHHH!
Ahem. Seriously, I think they did a good job of selecting monsters with cross-setting appeal. None of these creatures would be espically hard to shoehorn into an existing campaign world, but they're all distinct. If I have one complaint, it's that the Suel Lich might be a little TOO nasty. For something that's CR 17 minimum... But I nontheless LIKED the Suel Lich, so it hardly matters. :)
I also think that the Maggot Golem was pretty disgusting. I mean, "My players will hate me forever" disgusting. I'll bet Ravenloft had a monster made out of animated dead babies too...
Oh, and I'm happy that the Goblyn no longer does ability damage.
So yes. GREAT article. Made the issue on its own.
(I may bring this up in another topic, but in the future? Spelljammer articles are of limited use overall. I mean, seriously, SJ is only barely D&D. I know it holds a special place in the hearts of many, but... Hippo-men? Bug-faced elves? Sdrawkcab Scro? ... Ahhh, I should probably just say "I didn't like the Spelljammer bit" and leave it alone...)
As one of the SJ fans who felt a bit slighted at the Polyhedron fiasco I must say this is a better treatment of the setting than it has gotten. As far as I can tell the Giff were very accurate in their portrayal and this was one of the races I was concerned about as this was the one race that kept me interested in the setting as a whole. While I play lupin and similar races mostly, I still wanted the option of having them around to meet and interact with. Heck the one story I am writing features a Giff paladin and the pic used is about how I pictured the character to look like in my own story. Insectare are nothing I paid much attention to. Scro are dead on. Excellant article and the new monsters are a bonus section of new toys to play with.
As one of the SJ fans who felt a bit slighted at the Polyhedron fiasco I must say this is a better treatment of the setting than it has gotten. As far as I can tell the Giff were very accurate in their portrayal and this was one of the races I was concerned about as this was the one race that kept me interested in the setting as a whole. While I play lupin and similar races mostly, I still wanted the option of having them around to meet and interact with. Heck the one story I am writing features a Giff paladin and the pic used is about how I pictured the character to look like in my own story. Insectare are nothing I paid much attention to. Scro are dead on. Excellant article and the new monsters are a bonus section of new toys to play with.
Well... To be fair, I DID like the Scro. I just noticed the joke early, and it annoyed me somewhat. And I never liked Giff... But part of me wants to use them ANYWAY, because they're damn funny. I'm just something of a gaming snob (I'll admit it...), and so, extremely silly elements like this leave the corners of my mouth twitching oddly.
On the other hand, I'm glad to hear that SJ has its fans. See, I was a Dark Sun fan, back in the day, and kind of understand how you people must feel, to be left adrift in wildspace without a Spelljamming engine. Of course, I can't reach wildspace from Athas, so I'm simply stuck in one of the last jungles of the Tyr area, beset by savage halflings who only want me for my nutrients...
... Ahem. I mean to say that I'm sorry if my words came across as espically unkind. I meant no real disrespect, and I'm sorry if I said anything espically cross.
Carrionette was absolutely delightfully evil. Can't wait to spring that one on my players next time they're in an urban setting.
The nagpa and phanaton were old favorites. Glad to see them get the update. Maybe revisiting the Isle of the Dread will be a good way to pass the time on a cold winter's night ...
(I may bring this up in another topic, but in the future? Spelljammer articles are of limited use overall. I mean, seriously, SJ is only barely D&D. I know it holds a special place in the hearts of many, but... Hippo-men? Bug-faced elves? Sdrawkcab Scro? ... Ahhh, I should probably just say "I didn't like the Spelljammer bit" and leave it alone...)
Dude. Hippo-men are my idols.
#339 was a great issue...all that updated classic content.
Giff are only silly if you play up their uniforms, names and odd British accents. In my old AD&D campaign one of the high level wizards had four giff bodyguards. I ran them the same way bodyguards for rappers and rock stars tend to act--aloof, pushy, arrogant and all so willing to pummel somebody.
from what i hear, they are. back in the 2E days they were separate creatures.
|
As a fan of Spelljammer, as well as an admirer of the Giff, all I have to say to the people who think Giff are "funny" is...Have you ever seen an angry hippo in real life? Those things can get vicious. There are some areas of Africa where more people are killed by Hippos then any other wild animal.
I just wish that WotC would do an 3.5 update for the Rock of Bral.
Long Live Spelljammer!
The creature alternately called the "Greyhawk dragon" and "steel dragon" originally was called the "Greyhawk dragon" and appeared in a Greyhawk product. When they collected monsters from all over for the 2E Monstrous Manual, they changed the name to "steel dragon" so it wouldn't have a world-specific name. Since its time as a Core-D&D monster, it has been used in the Forgotten Realms, so you'll see the "steel dragon" name used in Core D&D and in FR, but when in a Greyhawk product or article you'll (properly) see it called by its right name.
|
The creature alternately called the "Greyhawk dragon" and "steel dragon" originally was called the "Greyhawk dragon" and appeared in a Greyhawk product. When they collected monsters from all over for the 2E Monstrous Manual, they changed the name to "steel dragon" so it wouldn't have a world-specific name. Since its time as a Core-D&D monster, it has been used in the Forgotten Realms, so you'll see the "steel dragon" name used in Core D&D and in FR, but when in a Greyhawk product or article you'll (properly) see it called by its right name.
Thank you.
I had to satisfy my own curiosity. ;)
In the 1990 Forgotten Realms product FR1 Draconomicon, there is a steel dragon on page 69.
Also in 1990, the Greyhawk Monstrous Compendium MC5 featured the Greyhawk Dragon.
If I had to guess, it seems like two different designers heard the same idea at the same time, and went to develop them independently. They are ridiculously similar in a whole lot of ways, but they are also different.
They are both found in temperate cities (Greyhawk dragon is rarely found in temperate hills, plains, and forest; steel is found rarely found in temperate hills, barrens, and forested hills).
They had the same level of Intelligence, alignment, damage per attack from physical attacks, and size.
The other stats were slightly different: Greyhawk (calling it GH for simplicity) was AC 0 at base and steel was AC -2; GH's movement was 9, Fl 30 (D), Sw 6 while steel was 12, Fl 30 (C); GH was 11-HD at base while steel was 12-HD; and the GH was a far superior spellcaster in terms of spells per day.
They have very similar temperaments and attitudes as far as living in cities and interacting with humans. In the steel dragon entry, we even see this line: "There is almost certainly a close relationship between the steel dragon and the Greyhawk dragon of Oerth."
The breath weapons are notably different. The GH breathes toxic gas that kills on a failed save. The steel's breath weapon however only puts victims in a comatose state, ala feign death. Both dragons have the ability to polymorph self 5 times per day and are immune to 4th-level or lower wizard spells, but their other spell like abilities are very different: GH gets cantrip 2/day at young, friends 1/day at juvenile, charm person 3/day at adult, suggestion 1/day at mature adult, enthrall 1/day at old; steel gets detect lie 3/day at young, charm person 3/day at juvenile, suggestion 3/day at adult, antipathy/sympathy 2/day at mature adult, and imbue with spell ability 1/day at old.
My conclusion is that they were originally intended (possibly mutually by all designers involved) to be close relatives of each other. However, it really isn't killing anything to have only one such dragon, since they were indeed very similar. :)
As one of the SJ fans who felt a bit slighted at the Polyhedron fiasco I must say this is a better treatment of the setting than it has gotten. As far as I can tell the Giff were very accurate in their portrayal and this was one of the races I was concerned about as this was the one race that kept me interested in the setting as a whole. While I play lupin and similar races mostly, I still wanted the option of having them around to meet and interact with. Heck the one story I am writing features a Giff paladin and the pic used is about how I pictured the character to look like in my own story. Insectare are nothing I paid much attention to. Scro are dead on. Excellant article and the new monsters are a bonus section of new toys to play with.
I agree! Well said!
Yes, I am VERY pleased with this issue and find that it was well worth the wait. Thanks to the editors and contributors of Dragon Magazine, you guys made me proud today. A little is never enough, but the taste is still great! Already looking forward to next year!
BTW, I've had Giff utterly devastate armies with their destructive fire power! Granted, it was one of their own in an accidental armament stockpile ignition, but still far more effective than anything my players could do at the time.
Argh! I have to wait until Tuesday to find out exactly how cool all these "new" critters are. I love seeing all that old stuff updated and converted. Heck, its why I got the Dragon Compendium too.
As far as the SpellJammer races go...
If anyone wants mine I will gladly hack them outta my magazine and mail them to you! ;-P
And of course the last line of the Greyhawk dragon entry says that Greyhawk dragons that have travelled to and settled in other worlds are known as Steel dragons, so I would say that officially in 3.5 they are the same, especially since SKR has some experience with both Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms . . .
For those who don't have it yet, the article includes: Animus, Blindheim, Carrionette, Death's Head Tree, Greyhawk Dragon, Dusanu, Goblyn, Maggot Golem, Suel Lich, Nagpa, Phanaton, and Xvart.
Hey Boz, great job, as usual :)
I'm a Ravenloft fan and am eager to get this issue. We can't get enough of this dread setting.
However, I have to admit this list surprises me, since the Carrionette and Death's Head Tree were already covered in official Ravenloft 3rd edition books? Why choose these?
Joël
i enjoyed the section on the spelljamming creatures a lot
i still have all of the SJ stuff i bought yrs ago
i love the scro, and im glad that there is an official update to them now
However, I have to admit this list surprises me, since the Carrionette and Death's Head Tree were already covered in official Ravenloft 3rd edition books? Why choose these?
Joël
Because their previous 3rd edition update wasn't in an official WotC or Paizo product. The Flumph was in Tome of Horrors, but Dungeon magazine still updated it.
Yes, I am wondering, if the rerelease of the Ravenloft novels is a success, and more are written if the whole White Wolf era won't be seen as a "Dallas Moment" for the setting. After all, with WOTC putting out books, they can actually mention characters like Lord Soth again. But all of that would be a ways off, if the republished books do well, and I'm not too sure that WOTC will ever relauch the actual game line.
For those who don't have it yet, the article includes: Animus, Blindheim, Carrionette, Death's Head Tree, Greyhawk Dragon, Dusanu, Goblyn, Maggot Golem, Suel Lich, Nagpa, Phanaton, and Xvart.Hey Boz, great job, as usual :)
can't claim to have had anything to do with that article - in fact, i haven't even seen it yet!
Because their previous 3rd edition update wasn't in an official WotC or Paizo product. The Flumph was in Tome of Horrors, but Dungeon magazine still updated it.However, I have to admit this list surprises me, since the Carrionette and Death's Head Tree were already covered in official Ravenloft 3rd edition books? Why choose these?
Joël
numerous creatures from the first ToH (which i *did* have something to do with) have been reconverted by WotC as well as Paizo. this bothered some people a whole lot (ever wonder why ToH II & III have no conversions?), but i never minded. i mean, WotC owns the content and was just licensing it to NG; they always retained the right to do with it as they pleased.
|
I had to satisfy my own curiosity. ;)
The Greyhawk Dragon and steel dragon are both found in temperate cities.
***SPOILER FOR PLAYERS***
I've read somewhere (I can't remember where) that Cobb Darg, Lord-mayor of Irongate is a Greyhawk dragon.
The article described him as "highly intelligent, wise and charismatic", "very old but without a physical change (he has been running that city for more 80 years)" and Greyhawk dragon have a high potential of shapechanging, and "nobody really knows what class or level he is". "However, he seems to be able to cast spells...".
Don't forget he is the only one who guessed rightaway the true intentions of those "nice men wearing puples robes and offering gold, advice and treasure". When the true identity of the Scarlet emissaries was revealed, he had them all arrested and sent away (maybe some of them were put in jail or killed).
Do you think he really is a Greyhawk dragon ?
It's my impression that the vast majority of Greyhawk fans consider Cobb Darg to be a Greyhawk dragon, although numerous other theories have been offered up, ranging from aasimar to pit fiend.
On the other hand, I'm glad to hear that SJ has its fans. See, I was a Dark Sun fan, back in the day, and kind of understand how you people must feel, to be left adrift in wildspace without a Spelljamming engine.
Then, of course, there are those of us who were (are) Al Qadim fans, and are now truly lost in the Pit of Ghuls. Ah, well, we have no fate but the fate we are given.
Sorry. Just give me Forgotten Realms and I'll be happy. Couldn't get into anything else, though I tried.
I love The Realms, too, but there is no reason to NOT put the vast majority (if not all) the various creatures and races on Toril in your game.
I always loved the Creature Catalogues and am glad to see them back!
I am also looking forward to the new monsters coming up in 5 issues or so.
Sorry. Just give me Forgotten Realms and I'll be happy. Couldn't get into anything else, though I tried.I love The Realms, too, but there is no reason to NOT put the vast majority (if not all) the various creatures and races on Toril in your game.
I always loved the Creature Catalogues and am glad to see them back!
I am also looking forward to the new monsters coming up in 5 issues or so.
Odd I have to quote myself, but I forgot to add that I was a little dissapointed with the Xvart.
What makes them all that different from other monsters like it? I would have rather a different monster of the same or about the same CR that had a bit more "spice" to it.
Didn't the Xvart from Fiend Folio have some sort of electrical attack or power?
And while the Goblyn is also sort of ho-hum, and I need another dragon like I need a hole in my favorite shirt, I was glad to see all the other monsters in this issue.
(Write ups for the races/monsters from the Planescape article would have been much-appreciated, but I'm done complaining.)
Didn't the Xvart from Fiend Folio have some sort of electrical attack or power?
no, Xvarts have always been basically nothing more then blue goblins
volt? umpleby? maybe you're thinking of a different creature.
volt? umpleby? maybe you're thinking of a different creature.
Umpleby. That must be the one.
My old books are in storage since I only play 3.5 now, but I can't bear to let them go. About three times a year I get them, page through them, and re-live some great gaming memories when I read certain passages or look at certain pictures.
Ah...
Didn't the Xvart from Fiend Folio have some sort of electrical attack or power?
There was no xvart in the Fiend Folio, at least not the 3e one. I gave away my 1e Fiend Folio awhile ago so...
Xvarts have always had a weird role in D&D. They didn't appear in a hardback book until the 1e Fiend Folio, yet Raxivort (their god) is fully detailed in the 1e World of Greyhawk box set, so there's a bit of delay for the general public knowing what the heck Rax is god _of_.
Personally, I think of xvarts as unique humanoids for three reasons.
One, they're entirely unrelated to the whole orc/orog/half-ogre/ogre/losel grouping (they don't have the orc subtype).
Two, they're entirely outside the goblinoid hierarchy (they don't have the gob subtype).
Three, they're not at all reptilian and thus don't have the kobold association (they don't have the reptilian subtype).
Also, because of their connection to rats, wererats, bats, and werebats, we end up with the following humanoid/animal groupings.
Orc/boars
Goblins/wolves, dire wolves, wargs
Kobolds/reptiles and dragons
Xvarts/rats, bats, dire rats and bats, wererats and bats
A creature's choice of pets help define the variety of encounters you may get with them. With xvarts, the rat/bat connection means they're a shoe-in to live in sewers, especially with their lycanthrope leaders.
Xvarts have always had a weird role in D&D. They didn't appear in a hardback book until the 1e Fiend Folio, yet Raxivort (their god) is fully detailed in the 1e World of Greyhawk box set, so there's a bit of delay for the general public knowing what the heck Rax is god _of_.
hmmm... Feind Folio Hardback came out in 1981, world of greyhawk Boxed set in 1983... however if Raxivort is detailed in the 1980 world of greyhawk folio then SKR is correct about there being a delay :-P
Heh, you're right. I got those dates mixed up. I don't have a copy of the WOG Folio handy, so I can't check to see if the Raxivort entry is in there. :P