A funny situation developed with my group in our last session, and I just wasn’t ready for it. Read the following and tell me how you would of handled it.
My group was in Karran-Kurral, slowly freezing to death, low on ressources and encountered Fetor, the high level spellcaster / loremaster. After a couple of gruelling rounds with the spellcaster (including a death of one party member), the sorceress in my group casts an Otto’s Resilient Sphere on Fetor, thus trapping him inside a bubble, and giving the group a chance to rethink their plan.
So my group takes the few healing potions that are left, restocks on arrows and everybody takes a ready action to attack as soon as the bubble bursts. But Fetor does the same, he gobbles up his cure serious wounds potion casts a few spell on himself and he too uses a ready action to cast a spell as soon as the bubble bursts.
So there was my problem: Five group members and an NPC standing within a few feet of each other ALL ready to take action (some with spells, some with swords, some with bows) as soon as Otto’s Resilient Sphere ends. Needless to say, the tension was pretty high.
With six people having readied and action, they all ended up with the same initiative count. Who goes first? And what about attacks of opportunity?
What I did:
I started with the person with the highest initiative modifier, and rerolled those who had the same modifier. I also dropped the attacks of opportunity for that round.
Would any of you done something different?
Ultradan
I would have allowed attacks of opportunity. As long as people are aware of each other and not flatfooted they can use attacks of opportunity.
Flat-Footed: At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat-footed. You can't use your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) while flat-footed. (This fact can be very bad for you if you're attacked by rogues.) Barbarians and rogues have the uncanny dodge extraordinary ability, which allows them to avoid losing their Dexterity bonus to AC due to being flat-footed. A flat-footed character can't make attacks of opportunity.
Had Fetor used his greater teleport or dimension door scroll? I would have teleported him away, and used a skirmish tactic against the party.
I would have allowed attacks of opportunity. As long as people are aware of each other and not flatfooted they can use attacks of opportunity.
Had Fetor used his greater teleport or dimension door scroll? I would have teleported him away, and used a skirmish tactic against the party.
Please, don't quote me the rules... Believe me, I've read them. Under any other circumstance, I would of left the attacks of opportunity. It's just that this situation was rather special. Everyone was to act almost at the same time, so I opted for the initiative modifier check to see who would actually act first, and making attacks of opportunity on that first action would make the initiative modifier check useless... You act first or you don't act first.
And I chose not to teleport him away because this situation was rather unique (and tension-filled).
Thanks for the input though.
Ultradan
It was a solution, I think that I would reroll initiative for all, as if it was the start of a new encounter.
i always make it so that the players and their enemies act at the same time if they are at the smae initiative nubmer. i would have let everyone do their attack of opportunities and also do whatever they wanted, and would have considered the damagae delt or effect placed so that everything happens at the same time. so if Fetor was casting then he would also have his effect as do the PCs.
it is a interesting coincidence that everyone had the same initiative value rolled. very rare, to say the least :)
it is a interesting coincidence that everyone had the same initiative value rolled. very rare, to say the least :)
Oh, no, everyone had different initiative rolls. But when they all took ready actions and waited for the magic sphere to vanish, all their initiatives became that of the caster from my group. And since they were all acting on readied attacks, that's why I dropped the attacks of opportunity.
Now that it's happened, I wonder why it never happened before.
Ultradan
I started with the person with the highest initiative modifier, and rerolled those who had the same modifier. I also dropped the attacks of opportunity for that round.
Would any of you done something different?
I would have handled initiative exactly the same way you did. Everyone is readying for the exact same thing to happen, so everyone's initiative is going to be reset to the same spot -- yet something has to differentiate them. I think the initiative modifier is the way to go.
I would not have excluded attacks of opportunity as I see no reason to exclude them -- squares are still threatened.
I would say that you handled it just fine. Initiative modifiers are definately the way to go. Though, I too probably would have allowed for the AoOs (though Fetor could see the fighters or whoever standing outside waiting to swing if he cast and could then cast on the defensive).
The thought that first came to my mind after reading the situation though and before reading your solution (which, once again, I think was appropriate) was a 'first come first serve' sort of thing. What ever player first readied an action would get the first move on the readied action. I like the Initiative modifiers better though...
Sean Mahoney
The rules state that if initiative is a tie, the highest DEX acts first. I would apply the rule, giving an edge to characters with Improved Initiative or any similar feat. For example a Fighter with Improved Initiative will get a +8 bonus to DEX (equivalent to the +4 given by the feat). No one is flat footed so AOO apply.
However, your solution seems fair too and you're the DM. It's your game !
Hope this helps
Bran.
I think I would have let them all let rip kind of simultaneously. Probly going by initiative modifiers the same as you did for ease of describing the event - quite a satisfyingly destructive moment to have the spellcaster inflicted with a serious wound from the fighters sword just as he lets off his readied spell ...... and so forth .... arrows flying swords swinging and spells exploding all at once AWESOME :)
So if someone with a sword stands next to a wizard and "readies an attack if the wizard casts", that person gets an attack of opportunity AND his readied attack. That's where it doesn't seem to make sense to me. When you ready an action, you shouldn't threaten anyone around you. Should you?
Ultradan
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I would say that a character with a readied action could take an attack of opportunity anytime *before* the readied action's triggering event, but doing so would negate the readied action. For example, if an archer has readied an action to shoot the Bad Guy as soon as the shield goes down, he could still take an attack of opportunity in the meantime, but doing so would interrupt his focus away from the action he had prepared, shifting the action from Readied to Delayed. Thus, he would not be able to preempt the Bad Guy's action, but would instead get to take his normal action on the following initiative count. Additionally: If he used his AoO to shoot something, he would need to use a move-equivalent action to reload before he could shoot again anyway...and for that matter he couldn't use his AoO for a melee attack because he wouldn't have a melee weapon ready.
The above doesn't seem to fit the sort of AoO you describe, though. If it were me, I would probably call for a new initiative roll for all participants following the lull in combat, and simply announce that under these circumstances there is no surprise round, no character is flat-footed to start the combat, and the first round's events happen almost simultaneously. I would disallow Attacks of Opportunity for the duration of the first round, simply because it is presumed that everyone who could take an AoO is busy taking their planned shot. I'd call for the participants' attack rolls, etc, in the order assigned by the new initiative, but rule that the effects of those actions would happen simultaneously after everyone has declared what they are doing.
Thus, each archer gets to take a shot, each caster gets to cast a spell, and so on...and the damage or other events created by these actions is rolled and applied at the end of what amounts to one simultaneous phase of combat. The caster's fireball (or whatever) goes boom at the same time the arrows (or whatever) strike him. Amusingly enough, this could theoretically result in every participant in the combat dying at once.
All subsequent rounds would take place normally, in separate phases as determined by the initiative roll, as long as someone survives on both sides to continue the fight.
I would say that a character with a readied action could take an attack of opportunity anytime *before* the readied action's triggering event, but doing so would negate the readied action. For example, if an archer has readied an action to shoot the Bad Guy as soon as the shield goes down, he could still take an attack of opportunity in the meantime, but doing so would interrupt his focus away from the action he had prepared, shifting the action from Readied to Delayed...
Mr. West, I really like that explenation.
So what I'll do, if the situation comes up again, is get everybody on the same initiative count, since they're waiting for the magic sphere to go away. Then make every one do their readied attack in order of their initiative bonus (and sort of re-roll for those who have the same bonus). And should a character decide to use his attack of opportunity on the casting enemy, he would loose his readied action. Brilliant.
Thanks everybody!!
Ultradan