|
Well, I've gotten my issue of #129, and I've glanced through it. My initial impression isn't as good as usual. First of all, the reprint of the cover is fairly evocative, but the front cover version is less substantial. The loss of the dragon's wings make a big difference. And I'm guessing that I haven't seen Black Dragon's using their breath weapon before because it looks like he's been up to late drinking on a Friday night.
I mean, really. If that isn't an accurate depiction of projectile vomiting, I don't know what is. Maybe that is what a black dragon's breath weapon is.
I'm particularly understruck by the title of the adventure "Murder in Oakbridge". I can't think of a weaker title. I don't mind Eberron adventures, but there are certainly more evocative names it could have. Aren't there?
I didn't enjoy myself in the Whispering Cairn the first time through, so I'm not terribly interested in going back. And while I haven't read the adventure, it would have been better the first time through if we would have had access to these "secret places" that I'm assuming we discover. Perhaps I'm overlooking something.
In any case, I'll read it and form a more informed opinion, but what does everyone else think?
I didn't enjoy myself in the Whispering Cairn the first time through, so I'm not terribly interested in going back. And while I haven't read the adventure, it would have been better the first time through if we would have had access to these "secret places" that I'm assuming we discover. Perhaps I'm overlooking something.
In any case, I'll read it and form a more informed opinion, but what does everyone else think?
There's a mirror gate right near the entrance of the Whispering Cairn (area 3 or 4 in #124, I can't remember off hand). It was buried under a bunch of rubble, but the adventure said that it would come into play in part 6, this issue.
I haven't seen the issue yet myself, but I guess that's the secret area in question. Plus, there's a vomiting dragon on top of it now. . . :)
I have always pictured and described black dragons breath weapons as projectile vomiting, heh.
I'm particularly understruck by the title of the adventure "Murder in Oakbridge". I can't think of a weaker title. I don't mind Eberron adventures, but there are certainly more evocative names it could have. Aren't there?
It's a homage to the first (and if you ask me, the best) murder mystery ever - "The Murders in the Rue Morgue" by Edgar Allan Poe.
In any case, I'll read it and form a more informed opinion, but what does everyone else think?That it probably makes sense to read something before reviewing it, that's what I think.
--Erik
Took the words right out of my mouth. I think. Let me reread them.... Yes. Yes, you did. Perhaps the thread's should have been a little more judgement neutral?
I actually got a chance to sit down and read some of the Campaign workbook articles in the back, and though I am not sure whether or not the Feirundil will be showing up in my campaign anytime soon the Temporal Hunter might (but hey, I like the yak folk for God's sake). Black sheep likewise was cool to read and actually got me think of hook I had forgotten to exploit. I flipped back to Monte Cook's Dungeoncraft (which I will admit I do not always read) and on reading it (and in particular the side bar attached to it) I realized a theme had been formed. I don't know if it was intentional (and editors like wizards never reveal their secrets), but I had the feeling the articles were there to get you to look at the game (and in Monte's sidebar's case) life with new eyes. Very nice.
I will reserve judgement on the rest of the magazine, though Wolfgang Baur, who so routinely steals the proposal ideas I have (but like six months before I have them) that I named the phenomenon "being Baured", rarely himself bores.
My God, what a run on sentence, all those clauses....
GGG
PS Kyle, Downer was great this month. How do you find the space for all these kewl characters and classes; Dread River Pirate? I guess you don't have to stat them. So, never get off whatever boat it is you are on (even for mangos).
PPS Paizo, This does not get you off the hook for whatever deadline/printing snafu that came up in regards to the Best of Dragon (that I pre-ordered and was looking forward to having in a week or two) but that's another thread.
New word for today: "captious"
As in: Dr. Civility used to be amusing, but now he is simply captious.
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)
Captious \Cap"tious\, a. [F. captieux, L. captiosus. See Caption.]
1. Apt to catch at faults; disposed to find fault or to
cavil; eager to object; difficult to please.
A captious and suspicious age. --Stillingfleet.
I am sensible I have not disposed my materials to
abide the test of a captious controversy. --Bwike.
2. Fitted to harass, perplex, or insnare; insidious; troublesome.
Captious restraints on navigation. --Bancroft.
Syn: Caviling, carping, fault-finding; censorious;
hypercritical; peevish, fretful; perverse; troublesome.
|
|
Usually when I get my Dungeon magazine, I tear into it immediately. I usually finish it in the course of a couple hours. I literally devour them.
So, perhaps I should have made that clear with my initial post. When I get my Dungeon, I should want to tear right into it. What's different this month? Is it me, or is it the magazine?
But, the evisceral reaction that we have to the magazine is likely to be as important as our informed opinion. If I had picked this up on a newstand, I wouldn't have bought it. It's lacking the pizazz or grab that I'd like.
But one suggestion from looking at it briefly regarding the reprint of the cover art. Issue #103 (October 2003) had a reprinted cover opposite the adventure that it was for. I think that is a stronger presentation artistically. The art for A Gathering of Winds (page 38) is much darker, and I don't think it grabs the reader as effectively as the cover art would.
|
|
I’m certain that a number of the posters on these boards dread my posts. While I always try to be polite, I admit I have an agenda. I’d like to see the magazine improve. Always. Incessantly. I’m not saying that the staff isn’t doing a good job, but every issue is an opportunity to evaluate the job they’re doing. And while they generally do well, emphasis on the specifics is the only way that improvement might occur. Because of that, I try to avoid the generalities. It might seem I’m nitpicking, and I’m okay with that. I’m comfortable with the person that I am, and I’m not worried about the opinions of those I haven’t met. While I don’t care about the opinions of others about me, I do care about my qualities as a person. So, if anyone here thinks I need improvement, I’d welcome your input. You can e-mail me at deaddmwalking@dndarchive.com
What I do for Paizo is a function of my personality. I’m not so hypocritical as to think that there would be something wrong were I to receive the same treatment. So, bring it on.
From the Editor) I usually enjoy Erik’s editorials. I think this one was weak. When he began talking about the players actions in the campaign (starting a graveyard) he had my interest. I don’t know why, but when he was talking about the metagame issues, he didn’t. Usually I’m interested to hear what he has to say. His take on killing a PC would have been interesting. As a part of just about every campaign (PC death), I’d love to hear his take on that. Even if it was just a eulogy of Vyth (explaining how the stories of failure are as entertaining years down the road as are the stories of success), I’d have enjoyed it much better. This was one of the columns I read before I began this thread, so that might be part of why I was unimpressed.
Letters) We have a total of four letters. The first one shows off something used in the game. I’d consider that a human interest story. I wouldn’t consider that a strong lead, but none of the letters this month are really strong. The second letter asks for a map, but the answer is no. The third letter asks for reprints of classic modules. The answer is no, but we have something similar we’re hoping you’ll buy. The last letter is a simple complaint about the number of dungeon crawls recently, but it tries to tie that into a perceived lack of female players. I think the threads on these boards are a better place to discuss such issues, and his reasoning regarding correlation is weak to say the least. So, two of my favorite sections don’t seem to offer much this month.
Murder in Oakbridge) I still consider this a weak title. Since I recently used James Jacob’s “Thunder Under Needlespire” (Dungeon #24) and I’m planning on using “Glacial Inferno” (Dungeon 103) I’ll offer those as examples of evocative titles. The titles aren’t necessarily descriptive, instead they have a mystery. Murder in Oakbridge explains what the adventure is. It sounds like it answers the question about what the adventure covers. I don’t feel drawn in the way I like to.
I’m not fond of the art for this adventure. The use of so much pastel (particularly pink and purple) doesn’t suit my taste. I hope there are people out there who prefer this style. I’m not one of them. I’m not sure whether to consider the map as part of the art for the magazine, but I really wish it were more complete. Eberron suffers from having terrible maps. I own the Eberron Campaign Setting, and I consider the maps the worst in any supplement I own. Still, figuring out how to describe the relationships between places (how to get from here to there) is hard, and the map included in the adventure doesn’t help answer those questions. It generally provides a feel for the “neighborhood”, but it feels like it’s isolated from the rest of Sharn. While the adventure isn’t a dungeon crawl (so less detail is perhaps acceptable), I’d prefer more.
The descriptive text in the adventure is sparse. I feel like I’m reading Hemmingway and “tip of the iceberg” short stories. While not everything needs a full description, I felt they could have been fuller and (here’s that word again) more evocative. There were some good touches. The description of Sigvar’s Smithy provides a great hint in playing Sigvar’s personality. There are also some that I think are sorely lacking. The description for area 4 – Chickor’s Arcanary claims to be “decorated in an exotic and outlandish style uncharacteristic to the rather plain buildings elsewhere in Oakbridge”. That isn’t very descriptive. Does it evoke images of the jungles of Xen’drik? How is it different from the other buildings? We know about the church in Oakbridge, and that doesn’t sound plain with stained glass windows and engraved walls.
There could be more explanation for aspects of the personalities presented in the adventure. Using the example of Chikor again, does he only cast his spells from the office? Spells with a duration of 1 min/level should provide ample time for a quick party to cover the area, but I can imagine a party hoping to receive one or more spells immediately before undertaking a particular task. Does he travel? Does it cost more? Does he charge based on the rates provided in the core rules for NPC spell casting?
A murder mystery is hard to write for D&D, and probably even harder to run. The “false leads” are pretty convincing, but my experience as both a player and a DM is that it will usually lead to frustrated players. Particularly in a situation in which they learn that the “abusive husband/father” isn’t the murderer, thus denying them the justification to kill him. While I don’t mind such moral conundrums, that certainly isn’t for everyone.
Nit picks – There is a typo on page 26, 1st column, under Cruzgar “cheep wine and gossip” should read “cheap wine and gossip. On page 33-34 Lucian Cruzgar’s stat block does not include his favored enemy from his first level in ranger. Depending on the races of the PCs, that may or may not be important.
A Gathering of Winds)
I think this adventure was generally good. Other than the art at the beginning, I don’t have any major complaints. One of the reasons I’m impressed is because the adventure is given the amount of length it requires. Still, I haven’t finished reading it. It is getting quite late, so I’ll pick this up another time.
Nitpicks – On page 40 in the first paragraph under “Adventure Background” there is a typo. “Air and lightning powered the their magic”. “the” should be removed. At the top of the third column, it says “potential deathtraps or an encounters with unusual”. “An” is singular while “encounters” is plural – it must either be “encounters with” or “an encounter with”.
So far, I believe my initial impressions were correct. I’ll keeping reading, and keep forming a more informed opinion, but so far it stands. The Age of Worms adventure is the good part of the magazine, and the only adventure in here worth owning. Though, I’ll cover more of that when I get to finishing my review of A Gathering of Winds and the final adventure.
I had just the opposite reaction - I thought 129 was actually better than average. For one thing, it actually arrived in my mailbox sooner than I was expecting, so that was a nice surprise!
Wolfgang Bauer's contribution to the AoW AP is excellent (IMO). We finally get to see Ilthane in action (sorry if that's a spoiler for anyone, but I think the issue's cover kind of gives that away!) the maps look really cool (big improvement over last issue). I love the side view of the waterfall cavern - awesome!
On the down side, there are lots of tough traps. It's not quiet "tomb of horrors" deadly, but it's a close second. Looking at how many groups have lost PCs to part one (Whispering Cairn) - from other posts on these boards - I bet there won't be many that will get through here in one piece.
I thought the Eberron murder-mystery was well done. I don't think I would use it exactly as written, but if you're playing an Eberron campaign and use Sharn for your main base of operations, I can see adapting this adventure - using NPCs the players already know, etc. I think getting the PCs involved on a personal level (knowing one or more of the victims) would make it more effective. I also think this would work well as a short "in-between" adventure for use between major quests / campaign arcs.
I have not read the FR adventure yet (sorry!)
As for the cover art - overall, I think it's good. But everyone is picking on the "pea soup" dragon breath. This brings up a good point: what exactly should acid breath look like? The only other example I can think of is the cover for the first DragonLance module (DL1). Either way, it's hard to compete with fire. Red dragons get all the attention! Maybe that's why the black dragon in the D&D movie had fire breath instead of acid - it's what people expect to see. Anything else is just... wierd.
;-)
...So, bring it on...
Theater!
Thanks for the spoiler warnings letting me know that this MAJOR spoiler was coming.
If you're a player in the Dungeon forum you need to be careful to begin with...
|
|
Thanks for the spoiler warnings letting me know that this MAJOR spoiler was coming.
I'm sorry to have revealed a plot element. I (apparently foolishly) believed that in a discussion of the strengths and weaknesses of this particular issue (129) it would go without saying that discussion of the content (including plot) would occur. I'm sorry I didn't make that clear originally.
|
Thanks for the spoiler warnings letting me know that this MAJOR spoiler was coming.DM
Honestly man, Dungeon is a DM's reasource and we are discussing it. If you are a player in games run by a Dungeon-using DM then you should not be here, and if you are a DM who reads Dungeon there really are not spoilers since most modules reveal the badguy in the adventure synopsis or even the adventure background.
I'm still waiting for my copy, Paizo...
;)
WaterdhavianFlapjack
I like the pea soup looking breath, mostly cuz that's about what spewing out a stream of acid looks like when I visualize it in my mind. One thing though, I thought he was vomiting up bunches of Kyuss worms, so when I found out it was only acid I was a little dissapointed.
I thought Murder in Oakbridge is one of the better adventures I've seen in Dungeon. I don't hate dungeon crawl or more typical combat heavy adventures, but it is good to see that a low combat mystery adventure will be purchased by Piazo. It's not perfect, the name is a little basic (even if it's a tip of the hat to a classic) and the personalities could have been fleshed out more, but I'd say it needs no more work than any other adventure I've read in Dungeon.
I haven't read the other two adventures yet, mostly because the AOW adventures will see heavy modifications before I run them (largely due to converting to Eberron, and changing things to fit my own vision), and I don't run FR so any adventure based there will likewise be heavily modified if I decide to run it at all.
Dungeoncraft was awsome, winging it is easily my biggest weakness, so any advise on how to improve there is welcomed.
Blacksheep is definetly going to see use in my campaign, even for players who don't have problems writing character backgrounds.
Haven't gotten to read the other Campaign Workbook article yet.
I'm still waiting for my copy, Paizo...
Me too...
...
Oh, wait -- I need to subsribe first :P
First of all, congratulations:
First to Chris Wissel, for his first publication in Dungeon, one of the Campaign Workbooks - I like the idea of strangely different monsters who happen to have the identical game statistics of current creatures... it's a neat idea and I wish I had thought to submit such a listing first.
Second to Mike McArtor, for his Critical Threat article with Wes and James (Sutter) - I like the movie tie in, it made me want to read the critical threat, but also I know that Mike has been trying to break into Dungeon for a while, and thought I'd give him some encouragement.
I also normally love Eric's editorial, but this month's fell flat for me. I'm really not sure why... perhaps it was that I already knew so much about Vyth and his legendary dice rolls from the many posts about the game on these messageboards. I'm not sure. It didn't engage me this month though, and that's unusual.
That said, I like the content this month, I just wish there was more content that I could read. I do run games, but I also play. The Eberron murder mystery is an adventure I may end up going through, so I've conveniently forgotten the hint DeadDMWalking let slip earlier. I also intend, eventually, to go through the Age of Worms adventure path, so I won't be reading that one either.
I am not as demanding, I guess, as DeadDMWalking and others. I have found useful material in the Campaign Workbooks - I submit to this feature, so I'm make sure I read the Campaign Workbooks in each issue carefully for clues as to the sort of thing the editors are looking for.
What I will say is that I am missing the fourth adventure/backdrop/city of adventure that was part of the mix for the relaunch. I realize the Adventure Path is underway, and space in the magazine is chronicly low. I also appreciate that the editors are giving the adventures the space they need. But I can't help but look forward to having three adventures, a backdrop/city of adventure, and three-five campaign workbooks again.
- Ashavan
Who's looking at the dragon breath when the priestess of Wee Jas as her butt hanging out?
Who's looking at the dragon breath when the priestess of Wee Jas as her butt hanging out?
The crytozoological dental students perhaps?
Personally though, I didn't even know there was a dragon on the cover until you pointed it out. ;)
GGG
Creative Director
|
What I will say is that I am missing the fourth adventure/backdrop/city of adventure that was part of the mix for the relaunch. I realize the Adventure Path is underway, and space in the magazine is chronicly low. I also appreciate that the editors are giving the adventures the space they need. But I can't help but look forward to having three adventures, a backdrop/city of adventure, and three-five campaign workbooks again.
Don't hold your breath too much for that fourth adventure/backdrop. Fitting in a fourth article into the magazine is not only tough to do from a space requirement, but it also tends to make us shoot over our budget; a 4th article means more art than normal, usually. There was never any plan to do a backdrop in every issue.
You can probalby expect a 4th article once every 3-4 issues though. We're doing a backdrop in issue #131, I believe.
Dungeon 129 is pretty good, it's certainly not in the top 10, but underwhelming is a bit strong.
I particularly enjoyed Monte Cook's column on winging it and look forward to his next installment on winging the stat blocks, which are kicking my a** in game prep terms right now, timewise...
I actually liked 129 better than some of the others i have read in a while. The Age of Worms has gotten better and better, and I never mind a Baur adventure, his are usually pretty cool.
Murder in Oakbridge was cool because of it's fairly open ended and easy to work with plot structure.
My only beef was that I don't really like to have the cover art reprinted on the last page. It seems to me ANYTHING else would go better there, either a map of mystery, a guest editorial, a one-page article on an NPC to use in a game, a new monster, something. I think the cover reprint is a collosal waste.
I must say, I think Ilthane's snout should have been a touch longer, and the bases of the horns stopped at the back of the eyes. Just my personal feelings there. I liked the picture, otherwise. It seems to capture a very classic aspect of D&D. In fact, it features both the entrance to a Dungeon, and a Dragon. Can't get more representative than that. :)
I particularly enjoyed Monte Cook's column on winging it and look forward to his next installment on winging the stat blocks, which are kicking my a** in game prep terms right now, timewise...
You need to use Chris' article. ;)
Plug, plug
GGG
|
Creative Director
|
My only beef was that I don't really like to have the cover art reprinted on the last page. It seems to me ANYTHING else would go better there, either a map of mystery, a guest editorial, a one-page article on an NPC to use in a game, a new monster, something. I think the cover reprint is a collosal waste.
We generally reprint the cover on that last page when what we normally had planned for that last page falls through and leaves us with nothing. I'm assuming that a blank page would be categorized as an even more colossal waste by you, but in any case, I think that reprinting the art is a nice way to close out an issue in the event of a map of mystery or something else not coming in on time.
My only beef was that I don't really like to have the cover art reprinted on the last page. It seems to me ANYTHING else would go better there, either a map of mystery, a guest editorial, a one-page article on an NPC to use in a game, a new monster, something. I think the cover reprint is a collosal waste.We generally reprint the cover on that last page when what we normally had planned for that last page falls through and leaves us with nothing. I'm assuming that a blank page would be categorized as an even more colossal waste by you, but in any case, I think that reprinting the art is a nice way to close out an issue in the event of a map of mystery or something else not coming in on time.
I'm willing to provide you with any material you might need to fill that page. :D
I particularly enjoyed Monte Cook's column on winging it and look forward to his next installment on winging the stat blocks, which are kicking my a** in game prep terms right now, timewise...You need to use Chris' article. ;)
Plug, plug
GGG
Yes, that article was a pretty good one too. Unusual creatures that throw the players a curve ball without requiring any extra work from the DM are always appreciated.
Keep those ideas coming, Chris.
As far as filling that one page in Dungeon, wasn't there a thread about that already?
My idea would be for Dungeon to print an adventure query that didn't make the cut for a full-blown adventure but is cool enough that someone might use it as a base for an adventure that the DM can flesh out himself. Paying someone a nickel a word for a 1000 word query to fill one page would only cost $50, right?
Call it the "Adventure Digest"....an abbreviated adventure, bare-bones, that fits on one page...no stat blocks, just a starting point of ideas. I'm sure Paizo gets plenty of queries that are "almost" cool enough to publish as a full-blown adventure, but didn't quite make the cut.
My idea would be for Dungeon to print an adventure query that didn't make the cut for a full-blown adventure but is cool enough that someone might use it as a base for an adventure that the DM can flesh out himself. Paying someone a nickel a word for a 1000 word query to fill one page would only cost $50, right?
Call it the "Adventure Digest"....an abbreviated adventure, bare-bones, that fits on one page...no stat blocks, just a starting point of ideas. I'm sure Paizo gets plenty of queries that are "almost" cool enough to publish as a full-blown adventure, but didn't quite make the cut.
Yeah, I just so happen to have a couple dozen of those too. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing.
GGG
|
I liked the picture, otherwise. It seems to capture a very classic aspect of D&D. In fact, it features both the entrance to a Dungeon, and a Dragon. Can't get more representative than that. :)
I liked the cover, but it does beg the question... Why does the dragon always use its breath weapon against the party member with the shield?
/I know, just poking fun at the artistic contrivance.
I liked the cover, but it does beg the question... Why does the dragon always use its breath weapon against the party member with the shield?
Good point!
Then again, I'd rather see that over the results of a successful acid attack (or fire) -- ewwww.
Later :)
Jack
Personally though, I didn't even know there was a dragon on the cover until you pointed it out. ;)
It's what is known as an optical illusion... you won't even notice the dragon until you stare at it for a while and relax the eyes.
Sean Mahoney
Maybe I'm in the minority here (but minorities have feelings too...); I like the reprint of the cover art. In fact, I like it a lot. The cover art is arguably the best art in the magazine on a consistent basis, why not print it in such a way that taglines and bold print aren't spoiling the effect?
And hey, not to beat a dead horse, but I'd much rather see the reprint then say ... Wil Save. At least I can use the art in my campaign.
I'm assuming that a blank page would be categorized as an even more colossal waste by you, but in any case, I think that reprinting the art is a nice way to close out an issue in the event of a map of mystery or something else not coming in on time.
Yes, it would. But I have the luxury of not actually having any idea what is going on, making my uninformed commentary look rather foolish when brought up in that light.
I agree that it would be more of a waste. I assume that since you made a reference to "falling through" you guys do have somethign else planned.