Yes it is true, rogues are killers.
But it is assumed that at 20th level the rogue is trying to hurt Bob the evil gnome who has an incredible AC => like 30, 35 or higher which gives him a good (mediocre?) chance to live through the ordeal of 6 sneak attacks.
make bob the gnome a vampire and there is no problem ;>
Ok not that i dont beleave you but can i get something saying that they can add Sneak attack to each attack,.
Page 50 of the Player's Handbook says:
"Basically, the rogue's attack deals extra damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not) or when the rogue flanks her target."
Since this would hold true for all of the rogue's attacks, it is implied that the sneak attack damage applies to each attack that hits. It's already been pointed out that at 20th level, the +5 BAB of the 3rd attack is unlikely to hit anything.
I dunno if it's "official," but the rogue in my group actually opted out of having his sneak attack apply to every hit in a round, when I would have let him take it.
But, we came up with a "house" rule (I guess, unless it turns out to be "official") that the first hit on an opponent can have sneak attack applied to it, and if another opponent is attacked in that same round, then sneak attack can be applied to the other opponent as well.
So, basically, you can sneak attack an opponent once per round, but you can sneak attack more than one opponent per round.
You are flat-footed until you have acted in combat, regardless of how many times you have been hit. This is true even if the fighter has already attacked the same target earlier in the round, as long has the target has not yet acted.
Skip Williams did a four part series of articles on wizards.com called "All About Sneak Attacks." Those articles will likely answer any and all questions you may have about them.
Skip Williams did a four part series of articles on wizards.com called "All About Sneak Attacks." Those articles will likely answer any and all questions you may have about them.
Right from Mr. Williams' third article dated 3/2/2004:
"Anything that allows you to make extra attacks during the full attack action gets you extra sneak attacks as well: fighting with two weapons, the haste spell, and the monk's flurry of blows are the most common ways of getting extra attacks."
So there you have it... straight from the mouth of Skip.
That does add up to a sick amount of damage, though. Damn.
I dunno if it's "official," but the rogue in my group actually opted out of having his sneak attack apply to every hit in a round, when I would have let him take it.
But, we came up with a "house" rule (I guess, unless it turns out to be "official") that the first hit on an opponent can have sneak attack applied to it, and if another opponent is attacked in that same round, then sneak attack can be applied to the other opponent as well.
So, basically, you can sneak attack an opponent once per round, but you can sneak attack more than one opponent per round.
Then your DM is ruling it wrong. The Rogue already has the worst BAB progression in the game, sneak attack is the Rogue's main damage dealer against the bad guys. If the DM takes that away, he is basically stripping the Rogue of the one thing that makes him so deadly.
This ruling on Sneak Attack is "Official". It is published in the PHB and again on the WoTC SRD. If your DM continues to rule the sneak attack damage this way, he is cheating you out. Your DM should really double check his interpretation on these things if he is unsure on how to adjudicate these things.
Yes TWF and Sneak Attack can be nasty (especially at higher levels), but in truth the odds are that a TWF Rogue will rarley hit while TWF at higher levels.
The Rogue already has the worst BAB progression in the game, sneak attack is the Rogue's main damage dealer against the bad guys.
FYI, rogues have "Average" BAB progression, worse than a fighter's but better than a wizard's.
Then your DM is ruling it wrong. If your DM continues to rule the sneak attack damage this way, he is cheating you out. Your DM should really double check his interpretation on these things if he is unsure on how to adjudicate these things.
Dude. I AM the DM. I gave the rogue the sneak attacks, he didn't want them. That's when the house rule came into play.
Seriously, and the rules are more like guidelines anyways.
Your rogue didn't want his sneak attacks???
What was his motivation again?
No he wanted his sneak attacks... just one per round. It's not that crazy, ya know. Think about it. If I sucker punch you, would you stand there for six seconds and let me sucker punch you four more times? Or, maybe if I use BOTH hands! OH! Then I could sucker punch you over and over again! ALL IN SIX SECONDS!
*ahem* Excuse the sarcasm.
Really, the six second round and initiative order was something he thought made little sense. You should be able to understand that. Why would someone take a sneak attack and not expect another? That's why he only wanted one in a round.
Look... my group of players don't really care what's official... if we don't like it, we don't use it. That only makes sense.
No he wanted his sneak attacks... just one per round. It's not that crazy, ya know. Think about it. If I sucker punch you, would you stand there for six seconds and let me sucker punch you four more times? Or, maybe if I use BOTH hands! OH! Then I could sucker punch you over and over again! ALL IN SIX SECONDS!
aha, the old realism vs game problem. If your player doesn't want it that's cool with me, really it is, really.
But for the sake of realism, if I was sucker punched it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that the sucker punch would "stun" me enough to get a few extra attacks in.
But as I said before, if your player wanted it, well by all means let him have it.
I hear ya, man. No offense meant, or taken. And the reality vs. game mechanics thing is always present. It all really hinges on suspension of disbelief.
Actually I have a similier question and would be interested how other DMs are ruling this.
I have a player who has taken a ninja (my homebrew has an oriental and a western style land physically side by side so Ninja's and Samurai are common).
Anyway The player wants to know if he could make an hide and move silently check after combat has begun. Presuming these work can he use the ninja sneak attack again?
So far I haev ruled that if he can manage to actually hide and move silently after a combat has begun then I figure he could sneak attack again - though there is no indication that the enemy would actually be technically without his Dex bonus anymore (its the middle of combat after all). What are other DMs doing?
Anyway The player wants to know if he could make an hide and move silently check after combat has begun. Presuming these work can he use the ninja sneak attack again?So far I haev ruled that if he can manage to actually hide and move silently after a combat has begun then I figure he could sneak attack again - though there is no indication that the enemy would actually be technically without his Dex bonus anymore (its the middle of combat after all). What are other DMs doing?
hmmm, if you follow the rules I think I would rule that:
if your are hidden and your target doesn't know that you are there (being in combat is irrelevant), you deny your target his dex bonus against you and thus you could sneak attack.This assumes that the ninja was not yet involved in the combat.
the hide skill says:
If people are observing you, even casually, you can’t hide. You can run around a corner or behind cover so that you’re out of sight and then hide, but the others then know at least where you went.
If your observers are momentarily distracted (such as by a Bluff check; see below), though, you can attempt to hide. While the others turn their attention from you, you can attempt a Hide check if you can get to a hiding place of some kind. (As a general guideline, the hiding place has to be within 1 foot per rank you have in Hide.) This check, however, is made at a -10 penalty because you have to move fast.
so after taking another look at your post:
if combat has begun and your ninja somehow managed with the -10 hide penalty to hide yet again from his target I would allow him to sneak attack his target again.
Bob now Takes 6 Attacks for like 60D6 sneak attack Dmg Plus 6 attacks (thats if they all somehow hit) We are talking like 360dmg plus six Weapon hits.
Yes, but at that level Bob can have heavy fortification armor, which denies all sneak attacks. And he could also have the two-weapon chain and two weapons of speed, so he could hit that rogue back for 9 attacks, likely with a higher strength bonus and extra damage from specialization.
Each class has its pros and cons. *shrugs*
I thought there was something about shuriken that since you throw three as one attack, that only the first one to hit got the sneak attack damage. Is this because the three are one attack, but if you threw two sets then you would get sneak attack damage on the first one to hit from each set?
I remember that from 3.0, but none of my characters have ever really used them so it hasn't come up in 3.5. I didn't see anything on it in the SRD.
Does that still apply?
I don't have my books around currently.
ASEO out
Shurikens, like The extra arrows provided by the Manyshot/Greater Manyshot feat are special exceptions to the rule, which is why the exception is printed with thier descriptions. Generally if you have multiple sources of damage that result from a single attack roll, precision based damage (Sneak Attack, Critical Hits...etc) only applies to the first source of damage (The first shuriken, or arrow...etc). However because making multiple attacks via the TWF feat or a high BAB (or flurry of blows or haste) require seperate attack rolls and are seperate attacks they each can apply the precision based damage.
Another way to look at it if the above wasn't clear is that on any single attack roll only the first source of damage can apply precision based damage.
Hope that came across as clear as it was in my head.
Anyway The player wants to know if he could make an hide and move silently check after combat has begun. Presuming these work can he use the ninja sneak attack again?So far I haev ruled that if he can manage to actually hide and move silently after a combat has begun then I figure he could sneak attack again - though there is no indication that the enemy would actually be technically without his Dex bonus anymore (its the middle of combat after all). What are other DMs doing?
Okay, are you using 3.0 rules or the ninja from the Dragon article which got reprinted in Complete Adventurer? Because I might be able to answer if you are using the one from the Complete book.
The Ninja doesn't get a sneak attack he gets a sudden attack. Different rules in that the ninja can't do extra damage to foes he's flanking unless they would technically be denied their Dex bonus.
Anyway, I'd say that he'd probably could make a hide check IF he did something really ninja-like like using a smoke bomb or somesuch. He would seriously have to take a full round to do all the stuff he'd need to to try and gain the advantage needed to do his sudden attack.
Of course this is moot if he just invests in a bunch of tanglefoot bags and tossed one during the surprise / first round of combat. If they can't move, they are denied their Dex bonus and therefore are subject to sneak and sudden attacks until the effect wears off... same with blinding powder to the face.
I thought there was something about shuriken that since you throw three as one attack, that only the first one to hit got the sneak attack damage. Is this because the three are one attack, but if you threw two sets then you would get sneak attack damage on the first one to hit from each set?
I remember that from 3.0, but none of my characters have ever really used them so it hasn't come up in 3.5. I didn't see anything on it in the SRD.
Does that still apply?
I don't have my books around currently.
ASEO out
Okay, I must have missed this rule about throwing three shuriken as a single attack... is this using feats, or am I just blind as a bat and not seeing the text on the page?
Any pointers as to where I can find this rule?
- Ashavan
The 3-in-1 shuriken toss thingy was from 3.0. It was removed from 3.5. In exchange for this, shuriken now enchant magically as ammunition - meaning you can, for example, make 50 of them +1 for only 2000 GP.
The 3-in-1 shuriken toss thingy was from 3.0. It was removed from 3.5. In exchange for this, shuriken now enchant magically as ammunition - meaning you can, for example, make 50 of them +1 for only 2000 GP.
A-ha, that explains why I wasn't familiar with it. Thanks!
- Ashavan
The greatest thing ever is a high level rogue with a Ring of Blinking! Most opponents you go up against will lose their Dex bonus. Hello sneak attack :)