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To me, a GM should approve other mounts equivalent to a horse or camel - creatures that are commonly ridden in a culture to which the paladin has a connection. For example, a dwarf clan might have a tradition of riding dire boars (there's no need for this dwarf clan actually and officially to exist, just for the GM to agree that it's plausible there is such a clan) or a paladin of Korvosa might get access to a griffon, at suitable level to be trusted with one and with appropriate mechanical adjustments. A GM might even consider that her campaign is particularly high-magical and sees many kinds of unusual mounts in the street every day - has this been established by NPCs that the players have met? It shouldn't become quasi-druidic access to crazy unheard-of beasts of the wild.
At character level 4, the PC has 4 levels of paladin. At the next 2 level ups, take 2 levels of another class... let's say fighter for the bonus feats... and then at character level 7, take another level of paladin. This gives us a Paladin 5/Fighter 2 who's character level is 7. Since the paladin class level is 5, she can select Divine Bond (mount). If she also takes the Boon Companion feat from Seekers of Secrets, her effective level for calculating the mount's level is 4 levels higher. This bonus is based off of and cannot exceed her CHARACTER level, not CLASS level... this is the key... is this correct?
This is official RAW so far.
If this is the case, it would seem that since her character level is 7, the Boon Companion feat would increase her effective level for selecting her mount to 7, and since large cat animal companions at level 7 are large size category, a Lion would be an appropriate at this level?
You can take this sort of analogy too far. I'd look at the abilities of a 7th-level paladin horse first, compared to a 7th-level large cat. It seems well-accepted that a Medium creature can ride a Large mount. I wouldn't say the precedent goes further than that.
What if the paladin was small sized? It would seem that if the above works for a medium creature, that a small paladin could simply take a small cat, which would be medium sized at level 4, and thus be an appropriate mount for a level 5 small paladin without needing Boon Companion at all.
If you think that granting access to cat-type companions is appropriate to balance and the flavour of paladins in the campaign, then a Small paladin riding a Medium small cat shouldn't raise issues. There are more and better reasons to take Boon Companion.
Technically there is no rule that says your mount must be larger than yourself. A human can ride on the back of a donkey or pony, or on the shoulders of another human (albeit at a -5 penalty). You might also need an exotic saddle (in the case of humans riding humans) to avoid another -5 penalty.
Size, interestingly, is not noted as a factor to riding anything, from what I can tell. The biggest limitation is in fact carrying capacity. Animals and other Int<3 creatures generally must be trained to "work" to willingly accept more than a light load; which rules out combat mounts if their carrying capacity isn't big enough to comfortably hold you (good luck riding around on a riding dog, as you're almost assuredly going to push into its medium to heavy load). Even if they're smart enough to ignore that you need to eat more celery, most creatures of your size or smaller (especially smaller) won't be able to effectively carry you.
There's technically nothing preventing you from trying to ride on top of a house cat (there's a bizarre mental image), beyond the fact your weight would crush said housecat. A house cat magically buffed beyond reason (say wearing a collar of +6 strength, and granted a +5 inherent bonus to Strength) might be able to lift your average person and carry them around (thanks to being quadrupedal); but then you just gotta wonder "Why would you ride a house cat, when there are clearly superior options?".
My friend just suggested the most bizarre thing I've heard in a long time. After reading my post concerning housecats as mounts, he suggested giving them collars of +Strength and ant haul, increasing their Int to 3+, and strapping them to the bottom of your shoes; to make cat-skates. O.o
EDIT: He added that he'd like to hook up house cats to his wagon to pull it, just to see NPC reactions. A group of about 4 buffed housecats being driven by medium-size PCs on a wagon.
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Wasn't there a thread about chicken sleds a ways back?
In 3E, you could easily get all sorts of exotic mounts as a paladin. PF "streamlined" that out of existence, sadly. You'll need DM houserule.
I agree with Stefan....
The entry in the Paladin description seems to be intentionally limited to the non-combat focused animal options.
If your paladin wants to suffer the gay jokes associated with riding Battlecat around, the way to do so while preserving the statistical limitations in the class feature text would be, give whatever animal he wants to ride the stats of a horse or a camel and let it appear to be whatever creature he wants it to look like.
If, on the other hand, your players just wants to ride the pouncing stat block that is the large cat, i would say "no"
There are several classes that get access to animal companions, several of them specifically limit the choices to mundane mounts, a few of them specifically do not limit the choices. I would consider that an intentional limitation designed to grant better features to certain classes as a balance issue and not allow it to the paladin.
The Empyreal Knight archetype suggests that your Paladin mount may already be able to fly - which in turn suggests more exotic mounts are possible.
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If you take the eldritch heritage feat, and choose sylvan, you can have just about any mount you want.You need to take TWO eldritch heritage feats because the sylvan feature replaces more than just the standard 1st level fey bloodline power.
No, this is a bit cheesy, but RAW. You only need one eldritch heritage feat, which, has it's own prerequisites.
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My friend just suggested the most bizarre thing I've heard in a long time. After reading my post concerning housecats as mounts, he suggested giving them collars of +Strength and ant haul, increasing their Int to 3+, and strapping them to the bottom of your shoes; to make cat-skates. O.o
EDIT: He added that he'd like to hook up house cats to his wagon to pull it, just to see NPC reactions. A group of about 4 buffed housecats being driven by medium-size PCs on a wagon.
That sounds like it'd be about as difficult as herding cats.
I agree with Stefan....
The entry in the Paladin description seems to be intentionally limited to the non-combat focused animal options.
If your paladin wants to suffer the gay jokes associated with riding Battlecat around, the way to do so while preserving the statistical limitations in the class feature text would be, give whatever animal he wants to ride the stats of a horse or a camel and let it appear to be whatever creature he wants it to look like.
If, on the other hand, your players just wants to ride the pouncing stat block that is the large cat, i would say "no"
There are several classes that get access to animal companions, several of them specifically limit the choices to mundane mounts, a few of them specifically do not limit the choices. I would consider that an intentional limitation designed to grant better features to certain classes as a balance issue and not allow it to the paladin.
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...BRB, statting He-Man.
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The Empyreal Knight archetype suggests that your Paladin mount may already be able to fly - which in turn suggests more exotic mounts are possible.
No, not really. The archetype essentially transforms your horse into a creature that's equivalent to a celestial pegasus. Otherwise it does not open any new choices.
The limitations are deliberate. The Paladin is much more of a melee monster than a Druid. He does not have the need for an animal companion with the same munchkin melee stats. The purpose of a Paladin's mount is to essentially survive carrying him into increasingly dangerous charges. Or to keep him mobile if he's the archery bent archetype.
Why not just duck the whole question by taking a level of druid at character level 5th? Then you gain the added benefit of being able to release your companion/steed from service and get another in 24 hours. So, you could ride a warhorse (or whatever) for a couple of levels, and then upgrade to a riding lion at level 7 (druid 1 / paladin 6).
Cheesy? Maybe. Practical? Yes.
Why not just duck the whole question by taking a level of druid at character level 5th? Then you gain the added benefit of being able to release your companion/steed from service and get another in 24 hours. So, you could ride a warhorse (or whatever) for a couple of levels, and then upgrade to a riding lion at level 7 (druid 1 / paladin 6).
Cheesy? Maybe. Practical? Yes.
Because every young squire dreams to one day become someone's knight in [i]wooden[\i] armor?
Oh yeah, that. Clearly not thinking well today. :p
Oh yeah, that. Clearly not thinking well today. :p
The metal armor wouldn't be a problem. The problem arrives from "any neutral" and "lawful good".
"This mount is usually a heavy horse (for a Medium paladin) or a pony (for a Small paladin), although more exotic mounts, such as a boar, camel, or dog are also suitable."
That quote is straight out of the core rulebook under divine bond. There also already exists an entry under Druid Animal companions for Big Cat. As long as the DM in your campaign in ok with it, it should not be a problem. Paizo went through the liberty of relatively balancing all the various animal companions.
The problem is that despite all a big cat's power, they are *not* built for supporting weight on their backs. If you even put a pair of saddlebags on a cat, they can't run. If you sit on a tiger's back, it will just lie down. Even if you could, take a look at a video of a cat running. Look at that spine. Now imagine sitting just behind the shoulders. Hope you enjoy whiplash :)
That being said, this is a fantasy game, so...
See if you can convince your GM to let you have a dog as your bonded mount, like you were a small character. Shouldn't be much of a stretch. Now you've got a pretty buff flanking buddy, and less of a problem bringing your companion in dungeons.
Pay for a horse. Ride that for a few levels.
Max out your ranks in Handle Animal (a trait for making it a class skill is handy)
See if you can buy or capture a lion cub. Raise it. Make it a character thing. Have it be friends with your dog. Site real-life stories of these kinds of things happening to ease your GMs trepidation.
At 6th level take Leadership. Sell your horse. Make your Lion your cohort. Ride it. As you go up in level, start giving it Barbarian levels. Win.
At 6th level take Leadership. Sell your horse. Make your Lion your cohort. Ride it. As you go up in level, start giving it Barbarian levels. Win.
If you're not down with PC levels, some GMs (like myself) are willing to use CR in place of character level. In which case the NPC levels like Warrior are great for this sort of thing. A normal tiger (6 HD, CR 4) gets +1 CR for every 2 warrior HD you add. So at CR 17, the tiger would have 26 warrior HD, and 6 animal HD, making it a 32 HD animal who makes for a fine brute enemy (BAB +30, -8 to hit with Power Attack).
EDIT: Incidentally, the 26 warrior HD equate to 6 points of ability score adjustments, about 13 feats, and 221 Hp, +15 Fort, +8 Ref, +8 Will, +26 skill points (after Int penalty), and gives the tiger a CMD of 49 (53 vs trip). All in all, not a bad minion for a 20th level character. The warrior HD make tracking it a lot simpler than dealing with class levels and features.
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No, this is a bit cheesy, but RAW. You only need one eldritch heritage feat, which, has it's own prerequisites.If you take the eldritch heritage feat, and choose sylvan, you can have just about any mount you want.You need to take TWO eldritch heritage feats because the sylvan feature replaces more than just the standard 1st level fey bloodline power.
Check again what the base feat does. Eldritch Heritage repalces the 1st level bloodline power. The Sylan animal companion bloodline replaces TWO powers, instead of one of the fey bloodline, so you'd have to have two feats to cover BOTH of the fey bloodline powers to get the swap. No doubt this is a deliberate move by paizo as this power is that much more powerful than any mere 1st level bloodline power.
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Why not just duck the whole question by taking a level of druid at character level 5th? Then you gain the added benefit of being able to release your companion/steed from service and get another in 24 hours. So, you could ride a warhorse (or whatever) for a couple of levels, and then upgrade to a riding lion at level 7 (druid 1 / paladin 6).
Cheesy? Maybe. Practical? Yes.
Because then you're limited to the animal companions a first level Druid can get if the choice isn't one that's eligible for the Paladin. You're also limited to Druid restrictions...INCLUDING ALIGNMENT. Which makes that neutral component a bit of a problem for mr. Lawful Good.
I don't see what the big deal about the orc bloodline is anyway. It's nice for blasting but seems more gishy (but only marginally so). The biggest reason to take it is for Power of Giants, which is a 15th level power that just saves you some cash as opposed to getting a 1/day giant form II item (48,000 gp).
Strength of the Beast is why I hear most people claim this bloodline as overpowered, and yet that usually is the fastest way to see that they either aren't playing the game as written or they have no idea what PCs are actually capable of post 11th level. The only thing someone with Strength of the Beast will have over a normal PC without is is +1 more point of Strength.
If anything, it just seems convenient. Those interested in real power would do better choosing a core bloodline like Abyssal (up to three top level summons when combined with superior summoning) which comes with some natural attacks, resistances, and immunities (and you even get the +6 strength if you're really desperate for that +1); or the Arcane Bloodline which nets you a familiar of your very own which can be upgraded with Improved Familiar to get your own little buff-buddy who applies oils to you during your turn, provides aid-another benefits, or uses cute SLAs (or donates poison for you in the case of pseudodragons); or Draconic Bloodline which is one of the best IMHO.
The draconic bloodline is epic for non-casters who really want to dive into bloodlines. The 3rd level power eventually scales to give you a +4 natural AC bonus which stacks with amulets; increasing your tanking capabilities noticeably so. Such AC is only bested by lizardfolk and troglodytes, and is something that is difficult or impossible to attain merely with magic trinkets.
So the only way by RAW to get a Griffon or Hippogryph (or other) mount is to take leadership and buff him that way. Relegating your Divine Bond to a moot point (unless you attach it to a weapon)?
So the only way by RAW to get a Griffon or Hippogryph (or other) mount is to take leadership and buff him that way. Relegating your Divine Bond to a moot point (unless you attach it to a weapon)?
It's only made worse by the fact phantom steed is cooler than your mount will ever be. ^-^"