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Claxon wrote:
There is an item, Cord of Stubborn Resolve....

15k for the cord, and it eats the belt slot? Ouch.... (I may have to resort to my old multiclass trick of folding in a level of Community-domain cleric if I want self-induced fatigue-aleviation at low-level.)


Scarlet and Green Cabochon
Flawed: This stone grants the wearer the Endurance feat. Anything that would make the wearer fatigued instead makes him sickened. Anything that would make the wearer exhausted instead makes him nauseated. Price: 8,000 gp.

Good for What Ails You (Ex)
Benefit: While raging, the barbarian who takes a drink of alcohol may attempt a new saving throw against one of the following conditions that may be affecting her: blinded, confused, dazzled, deafened, exhausted, fatigued, frightened, nauseated, panicked, shaken, or sickened. If she succeeds at the save, the effect is suppressed for the duration of the rage. She also may attempt a new saving throw if poisoned; a successful save counts against those required for a cure, but a failed save has no ill effect.

~ ~ ~

The key passage is "if she succeeds at the save". --So, what is the save? Is there one? (The fatigued/sickened or exhausted/nauseated conditions in question are the result of ending rage, not hostile magic.)


ckdragons wrote:

Starting to prep for my next campaign, I'm looking at changing (limiting) the max score for starting characters.

20 point buy....

I'll be the first in the thread to congratulate you on not doing rolled stats.
Quote:
ability scores must be 10 to 16 before racial adjustment. How would this look for new characters?
They won't be minmaxed, and that's about it. It will weed out problem players who absolutely demand hyperoptimized characters out of the chute.
Quote:
Would players be more likely to create MAD characters since they can't get a 20 stat?

They'll be more likely to play races with +2/+2/-2 array adjustments, and less likely to play one-trick-pony blasters.

I once ran a multiclass human in PFS whose starting stats were 14,14,13,13,12,12 (20pt) and whose first three classes were BAB0. And it was a martial build that didn't rage. --There are probably half a dozen ways to do almost anything baller in this game. If you can learn a gimmick to reliably dish out -2s to the enemy, that's like having a relative +4 in your attack stat (and you're sharing it with the party half the time), meaning you could save a lot in point-buy with detuned stats, and enjoy a wider bonuses footprint in the bargain.

In a home game as opposed to a module system, the GM also tends to adjust to the level of his PCs to keep the game taut, meaning that the party being overall stronger washes out, as it means their opponents are relatively stronger too.

I find that the key to enjoying myself in home games is to not be grossly disproportionate to the other PCs. I neither want to gimp nor cakewalk.


avr wrote:
I think the strap is simple flavour, an explanation of why you can throw this slight variation on the warhammer when you can't throw an actual warhammer.

Well, you can throw a regular warhammer; you just eat a penalty (which might not matter much if you're a fighter with attack-bonus to burn, especially if you had nothing better to do anyway with no enemies close).

(The ram hammer, then, appears to cashier its Exotic proficiency requirement into waiving the penalty when thrown, get x3 thrown crits, and bestow an additional fighter weapon group. Interest would be mainly as a in-a-pinch one-handed ranged weapon for low-level S&B dwarves with Quick Draw.)

<wistfully sigh and shred martial-who-had-a-nice-thing concept>


Quote:

Ram Hammer, Dwarven

Cost 25 gp Weight 5 lbs.
Damage 1d6 (small), 1d8 (medium) Critical x3 Type bludgeoning
Range Increment 10 ft. (thrown)
Category one-handed Proficiency exotic
Weapon Groups hammers, thrown

The dwarven ram hammer is designed to be thrown or used in melee, with a long leather strap that is wrapped around the wrist when used to deliver blows in close combat but unfurled to aid in swinging the weapon when the hammer is thrown.

Pathfinder Player Companion: Heroes from the Fringe

--How exactly does this legal-for-Society-play face-pulper work?

Q1. How long is the strap? (The weapon doesn't list a maximum range, i.e., as if a whip)

Q2. If range is limited by the strap, that would imply that it doubles under the effects of Enlarge (up to maximum possible ranged increment)...Y/N?

Q3. The "aid in swinging" flavor text implies that it can be whooshed around at the end of the strap, i.e., granting the pseudo-reach of a polearm (or more; depending upon answer to Q1) but using dex to hit...Y/N?

Q4. How do melee and thrown attacks interleave during a full-attack? (Or don't they?)

Q5. What are the strap's hardness and HP, and are they improved when the weapon is enhanced?


Derklord wrote:
Slim Jim wrote:
Successful melee crit-fishing (...)
And talking about crits, what we see here is a critical fumble at reading what the thread is about.
What we see here is a critical fumble at reading both the OP, who stated in the first clause of the first sentence of the first post of the thread :
Spyboy wrote:
"I am looking at building a dex based front line combat character of some sort. Initially looking at the two bladed Katar but that is not set in stone."
Which quite naturally led you to completely overlook the incongruity of Ryze Kuja immediately suggesting an uber strength build in the thread's second post, as well as Name Violation, who recommended the same in their post immediately above mine whose second paragraph which you never got to read:
Quote:
"The following is not an android, but the OP can still raid the exploratory build for ideas."

Because making it an android would knock like a half-dozen off the total from not having Risky Striker. Horrible.

<eyeroll>

"ZOMG it don't have a x4 weapon either! Totally not what he wanted! Boo!"

Do you really suppose Spyboy doesn't know how to mentally convert "cestus" into "katar" all on his own without you being around to hold his hand? --My goodness; then he would have a DEX BUILD with a x4 weapon, that being exactly what he asked for in the OP.

Amazing. Astounding. Astonishing.

<Bronx cheer>


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#6: Friday night Harrow-draft has been canceled until further notice.


Successful melee crit-fishing is a four-legged stool: Leg 1 is numeric damage applied to extended-threat weaponry. Leg 2 is number of attacks per round. Leg 3 is ability to secure full-attacks. Leg 4 is defense, i.e., can you survive while adjacent to cheesed-off monsters unloading their multi-attacks?

(The following is not an android, but the OP can still raid the exploratory build for ideas.)

STR- 8 (halfling, 15,15,12,12,12,10 20pt-array)
DEX+ 17 (bump 4th, 12th+Manual?)
CON: 12
INT: 12
WIS: 15 (bump 8th)
CHA+ 14
racial traits: Low Blow, Outrider, Fey Thoughts(Fly,UMD), Shadow Hunter, Small Quarter Ally
character traits: Anatomist, Fate's Favored

01 Bloodrager1 [Urban/Id:Hatred:Weapon Finesse], Extra Rage
02 Cavalier1 [Emissary:Mounted Combat][mount][challenge]
03 Monk1 [Qinggong/Sohei:feat:Mounted Skirmisher], Boon Companion
04 Monk2 [evasion][feat:Ride-by Attack], DEX>18
05 Monk3, Indomitable Mount*
06 Monk4 [Ki strike][Monastic Mount]
07 Cavalier2 [Order of the Paw][Danger Ward], Chain Challenge
08 Cavalier3 WIS>16
09 Cavalier4 [Expert Trainer:retrain BoonC > Horse Master], Risky Striker
10 Monk5
11 Monk6 [Weapon Training:Monk group][bonus FEAT*], Piranha Strike
12 Monk7 DEX>20(?)
13 Monk8 [~ITWF Flurry iterative]
(*retrain Indomitable Mount into the monk 6th slot at 11th if nothing else on the monk/mount list is enticing; this frees up a general feat slot)

Level break-down:
1: ...Enjoy +4 dex and Weapon Finesse for Con+10 rounds per day. (Tip: don't rage save the moment you're deploying a full-attack versus a worthy target. And eat some barbarian chew.)
2: ...gain a mount, gain a relevant feat, gain Challenge (albeit tepid until mid-level). Wolf (choose this mount because it's the fastest medium-sized cavalier option whose upgrade attributes aren't nerfed, take a pony only if you're stuck in a campaign where it's impossible to buy or have crafted a Horseshoes of Speed variant for canids): give it the Narrow Frame feat. --While you'll have some fun tripping things at low-level before the rider side of things is fully gelled, the real job of this animal is to carry you safely into and out of melee via Ride-by Attack while eventually quadrupling your speed.
3: ...gain pseudo-Pounce that's better than actual Pounce because it's not a charge action, meaning you can fish-tail your way in to the opponent without worrying about open lanes or straight lines.
4: ...now pseudo-pounce while also avoiding AoOs. Also avoid AoE.
5: ...Indomitable Mount can be taken in a Sohei feat-slot a little earlier if mount saving-throws are a greater low-level problem for you than AoOs.
6: ...up to three attacks/round while Ki lasts; auto-share monk bennies w/mount
7: ...Order of the Paw's Danger Ward is one of the best defensive party-buffs in the game, and very few know about it due to the highly-specific race/class/mount package requirement. Free rerolls are godsends.
8: ...a dull level, but we pick up +1 Ki/day, +1 will, and +1 AC.
9: ...finally we can retrain Boon Companion into Horse Master, and it'll be all monk hereafter. Risky Striker delivers +6 numeric damage at cost to AC; take Piranha Striker here instead if you'd rather sack attack-bonus before AC. Soon enough you'll have both.

Gear bucket-list: +1/Agile/Furious/Keen cestus (a weapon that is not subject to either Disarm or the Steal maneuver), Belt of Incredible Dexterity, Headband of Inspired Wisdom, Gloves of Dueling, Vambraces of the Tactician, Champion's Banner, Boots of Speed, "Winged Dog Booties of Speed", War Saddle.

~ ~ ~

Let's revisit the four legs of the stool:

1st leg: Numeric contributions at 13th:

8 (maybe 9, maybe 10) dex+rage+belt
10 challenge (4 cavalier levels + vambraces + champion's banner)
3 gloves of dueling
3 Furious enhancement bonus
8 risky striker
8 piranha strike
= d3+40 (17-20 threat, +2 to confirm). This is all without spellcasting, consumable consumption, or external buff reception. Since all full-attack damage is via Flurry, only a single weapon is needed.

2nd leg: Number of attacks:

Level: 3rd:2, 6th:3(Ki), 7th:4, 8th:5(BoS, if not earlier), 11th:6, 13th:7

3rd leg: Ride-by Attack + Mounted Skirmisher lets us zigzag right up to the reach-monster and unload all of those attacks without eating any AoOs. Mount's move capacity: 50 (base), +30 (mount's footwear), +10 (Racer archetype), +10 spurred, if necessary (Ride-check)

4th leg: we're a decently-skilled monk with not necessarily redonkulous but still excellent AC (including Qinggong Barkskin), enjoy fast-track in all saves including a couple save rerolls per day for everyone in the party, we almost never take AoE damage, we negate most mount-bound damage and skull effery with mount feats and Sohei shared monk buffs, will always act in surprise rounds, and gain a scaling bonus to INIT. Lastly, if we're ever chewed to pieces and in a bad way, we can pop an Immediate action to gain cover from our mount.


LordKailas wrote:
[b]** spoiler omitted **...

Are you carrying the Tower Shield and Banner of the Scarlet Rose in two separate hands? (If so, you're without a weapon.)


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The proprietary iWand charger costs five times as much.


Given exceptionally sneaky and PC-level intelligent adversaries with all the time in the world to scope you out....

Round 1:
* ...No consumables or spells will be running unless their duration is an hour or more, unless it's something you can deploy as an immediate action while flat-footed. (Anything shorter your adversaries will just wait out until duration ebbs.)

* ...You are flat-footed, unless possessing widgetry that says you're not.

* ...You are attacked in a surprise-round in which you are surprised (unless possessing widgetry that says you're not) by a Stealthing, Invisible, and Silent opponent who executes a Quick Dirty Trick versus your CMD. (If you fail, it all heads downhill very fast. Assume your adversaries know your weaknesses, and will exploit your worst.)

~ ~ ~

The easiest "solution" is anything that insta-warps you out of danger; assuming such solutions exist, then ideally we should all have them. But let's say we don't, for whatever reason, and we're stuck relying on our CMD, such as at is. --Who can post the highest number, either "all day CMD" or one-shot?

Use any gimmickry you like, but indicate if it's not PFS-legal.


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Wand Charger, 1000gp. This gnomish invention is a cylindrical metal tube a little longer than the length of two wands, with a "+" symbol at one end and a "–" at the other. A wand to be charged is inserted into one end, and another wand to donate charge in the other end. The operator twists a dial to indicate how many charges he wishes to transfer, and activates the device by pressing a button. It will then run unattended, humming softly for one or more minutes until it is finished. Aside from charging wands, a wand charger will accurately reveal the number of remaining charges of any wand placed within it.

A wand to be rejuvenated receives four spells for every five spells expended by the other, at a rate of one spell received per minute, with a minimum charge-loss of one spell from the donor wand. The device does not distinguish between arcane or divine wands, but only charges when two wands of identical spell-level and caster-level are placed within it. (Rumors of more complex chargers exist, but none are for sale in this shop.)

Wand chargers are more or less idiot-proof, and do not require a Use Magic Device check to operate, although inscriptions warn against tampering or other inappropriate usage.


Shorticus wrote:
Quote:
Getting a Blinkback Belt takes up your Belt slot, which takes up one of your Big 6 slots, so this is a little "..bleeeetch...." for me, because now you're missing a +2/+4/+6 Strength during the early/mid game, and eventually you'll be missing your Belt of Physical Perfection.

Just get a tattoo of it. A Blinkback Belt is only 5k, so it's not that hard to get.

Or convince your GM to let you enchant the Blinkback Belt as a belt of dexterity or w/e.

Blinkbacks are primarily of interest to Shooting Star builds, as they're minmaxed for Charisma. Such builds are liable to dump strength, and don't need dexterity for much either if they're having Cha or Wis do double-duty there as well.


Ryze Kuja wrote:

If you're going to TWF, it's the best time to go Quick Dirty Trick + Dirty Trick Master. It only eats up one of your attacks to make a Quick Dirty Trick and it's some of the nastiest debuffing in the game (Blind, Nauseate, Dazed, etc.) You're Half-Elf, so you can pick Human or Elf Slayer FCB, so pick the Human FCB 1/6 slayer talent.

This is a Dirty Tricks Slayer build I came up with a while back and I sent this guy and a 2handed Slayer to assassinate my party of 5 PC’s.At level 12, they caused 3 player deaths in 6 rounds,

Of curiosity, what builds died and which survived?
Quote:
so this build is not only a battlefield controller with Dirty Tricks, but also built for high damage.

<Nod> ...Dirty Tricks is Paizo's "Easy" button for getting-up-there martials. (To the OP: note that you likely start an arms-race with your GM in a mid-level home-game with DTs.)

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

And now that you've seen a Dirty Tricks assassin build, try and defend against it.


Over in another thread, a posted assassin build was quite the slicey-dicey versus blind, panicked, nauseated opponents....

Ryze Kuja wrote:
"...This is a Dirty Tricks Slayer build I came up with a while back and I sent this guy and a 2handed Slayer to assassinate my party of 5 PC’s. At level 12, they caused 3 player deaths in 6 rounds, so this build is not only a battlefield controller with Dirty Tricks, but also built for high damage...."

Your task is to not be that guy barfing his lunch up out though a severed-neck hole in a gruesome anime geyser. So, a 12th-level "DPR Olympics", in which the D stands for don't-die-dimwit.

Ryze didn't provide a CMB number to beat, but you may reasonably surmise that it is high enough altitude that supplemental oxygen is recommended.

Good luck.


Agree with Meirril, and I'm not enamored of channeling at all, save as emergency rations to stabilize the fallen when you can't reach them because you're busy at the moment.

~ ~ ~

With 25pts, you can make a great reach-cleric. Cast on your turn, and AoO stick 'em on theirs.


avr wrote:
'If your Strength score is less than 15, you take a –2 penalty on attack rolls with a broken-back seax, as you’re unable to put enough force into the blows to land them effectively.' This is not an ideal weapon to use with weapon finesse & dex-to-damage, Slim Jim.

It would rather depend upon how "expensive", in terms of point-buy and other factors, getting strength to 15 is as a secondary attribute with dexterity being primary. Certainly Sav-Techs wouldn't have any trouble, while halflings are not amused. Dual Talent humans needn't devote more than 3pts out of their point-buy.

In retrospect, though, my initially favorable impression fades, and I see the BBS as an odd-duck struggling to find a niche. --Unless you specifically need the light-blades group (or BBS proficiency is granted for free), why use a BBS over a bastardsword, or the finessable ECB with a higher threat-range? (The BBS, and the equally odd Split-blade Sword, a 2d6 one-hander with 20/x2 crit and a BBS-similar Dex 15 requirement, are both out of the same book.)

If one's build is strength-based (let alone two-handed), there does not appear to be any reason to use the BBS at all, aside from as-a-lark. There's no mechanical benefit to doing so.


(Errata: The BBS is in the light-blades group, but it's not "light". So, Effortless Lace when need be.)


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baggageboy wrote:

So I wanted to get people's thoughts on this build and some advice on other possible options. The idea behind the build is trying to make something that breakers the mold a bit. So without further adieu may I present, the thugbuckler.

Race:
Human
Military Tradition (Broken Back Seax, bolas)
Heart of the Fey

Traits:
Artist of Battle in All Forms (Dirty Trick)
Mock Gladiator
Avarice

Starting stats:
16, 12, 12, 12 ,12,15 (Middle aged age category)

Levels and Feats:
SW: Swashbuckler (Corsair, Noble Fencer)
SY: Slayer (Vanilla)

Quick initial impressions:

* Being a middle-aged guy with 12s in most of your stats and a Str under 18, you're not particularly thuggy. (Not that this couldn't be a lot of fun to RP as a boozing, over-the-hill, once-upon-a-time-I-was-a-weekend-warrior type of overconfident trash-talker. Kind of like the Kurt Russell character in "Big Trouble in Little China".)

* Your will save will be atrocious as a low-wisdom human multiclass martial without fast-will track from either class. A few extra points from Aristocratic Discipline won't cut it. (If you're giving up the human's free feet for an exotic prof, then consider a half-elf taking Ancestral Heritage for the Seax.)

* As a pure martial melee multiclass who doesn't appear to need to concentrate much, a bit of rage wouldn't hurt, either for power or will saves.

* Your armor-class is garbage with 12 dex, unless you intend to wear plate. (You can do that as a swashbuckler, at the cost of mobility and some deeds not working.)

Quote:
I know the choice of weapon is suboptimal, but...

* Broken Back Seax? Uhh... What da heck? A d10 *light* weapon with a decent threat-range? Where has this thing been all my life? Ah: a 2018 book. Well, then; waveblades have strong competition for the best up-close wetwork weapon in the game. ...as a light weapon, you could totally minmax your dex

Build (lotsa dex)
Race: anything with some mental protection
Levels: 1-7 = whatever, because it doesn't matter, since...

Upon leveling to 8th, the second-act of the film depicts our protagonist at the low-point of his "Hero's journey" saga, when all hope is lost. Until he meets the Wise Elder, who takes his bleeding body back to his Awesome Lair Slash Batcave, where he is healed with mystic Class A herbs, and there begins a cool 80's training-montage sequence in which the character transforms and upgrades into the kick-ass who will take the fight back to the bad guys in the final reel.

(Retraining rules used to rebuild into....)

01 Barbarian1 [fat load of hitpoints], Extra Rage, Ancestral Heritage(prof:BBS)
02-07 Sohei monk1-6 [Weapon Training, Light Blades group]
08 (Swash, or any class) (alignment shift away from lawful so rage kicks in again)

....you now have a guy who's making up to five 4+1 flurry/ki attacks per round with a single light +1/Agile/Furious d10 weapon while wearing light armor, and Gloves of Dueling / Piranha Striking the crap out of things. And has much better saves.


Swashbuckler? ...Oh.

I thought this was going to be about shield bucklers.

(Carry on.)


Those stats are awful. What is this? 10pt-buy?


If you have Quick Draw, you are a machinegun needing only a single weapon: "...the weapon teleports back to its strap or sheath immediately after the attack is resolved..." -- This also keeps that weapon as safe as it can possibly be, i.e., it can't be disarmed/sundered/rusted/corroded/greased/etc because it's always sheathed until the split-second you draw and throw your next iterative. Even if the enemy somehow catches it, the attack was "resolved", and it poofs out of their mitts back into your possession.

Quote:
The way its written seems to imply attacks out of your normal initiative. Its "Before the end of your next turn" not "Before the end of your turn. So are we talking about ranged attacks of opportunity on your enemies turn or is it just badly written?

It's not bad, it's advanced.

Anyway, if you hold the weapon too long without throwing it, then it won't blink back. So, make sure you don't lose that expensive star knife, m'kay? Dragons have been known to fly off with those stuck between their scales. Never draw from the blinkback unless you're throwing right then and there.)


Shorticus wrote:
Honestly, then, he won't be super effective. No armor; no magical items; no way to counter magic; poor will saves. This guy will have lots of HD and some cool mythic abilities, but I'm hardly getting an 'ultimate assassin' vibe from that.
The vibe I'm getting is chaotic-"neutral" Drizzit.
EldonGuyre wrote:
He hates magic, and he refuses to use it.

I can't speak from personal experience, but I suspect that "top assassins" are coldly rational, and use the very best tools available as ruthlessly and efficiently as possible, because if they didn't, they'd probably already be dead at the hands of someone else who did.

This...roleplaying limitation is just a self-gimp.

Even the muggles in the Harry Potter universe use magical gear when they can.

Shorticus wrote:
Honestly, then, he won't be super effective. No armor; no magical items; no way to counter magic; poor will saves.

Flailing against DR/magic, etc.


Melkiador wrote:
Having one creature that’s both your familiar and cohort is weaker than having both a familiar and a cohort. So, I don’t see a problem with letting you combine them into one. It’d be a house rule though.

It doesn't seem that it would be that difficult to adapt Monstrous Companion into also working with familiars.


Gray Warden wrote:
This is somehow even worse than Slim Jim's "Just do not play an archer Bard",
Those quotation-marks are lyin' liars tellin' lies.
Quote:
and his reply is literally the opposite of what the OP asked! How can you beat that?! We are reaching levels of spam and/or reading comprehension disability
The Original Poster Entitled His Thread Thusly wrote:
ARCHER BARD?
And then he wrote:
Any advice on this?
Continuing, the OP wrote:
Thoughts on this build?

Example of said reading comprehension disability: failing to see the question marks. --The OP did not specifically state that he wanted a bow-shooter bard; you merely assumed so because that was the build he submitted to our collective analysis. What he really said was, he was "interested".

Well, a player in these forums hypothetically "interested" in playing, say, a Str 20 human core chained rogue who dumps charisma, wisdom, and dexterity to pay for it in point-buy might be, ever so gently, dissuaded from doing so by yours truly, no? --You know damned well that you'd "literally the opposite" Empowered crapstorm all over it.

The OP wrote:

1: PBS

1h: Precise Shot
2b: Versatile Performance (String)
3: Rapid Shot
5: Lingering Performance
6b: Martial Performance (Longbow)
7: Weapon Focus (Longbow)
9: Weapon Specialization (Longbow)
11: Manyshot
Slim Jim wrote:
I'm not a fan of archer bards because archery takes too many feats. --You'll end up being a mediocre bard (because you spent most of your feats on archery) and a mediocre archer (because your point-buy is skewed toward charisma, which is a dump-stat for martial archers, and away from strength, a bard's usual dump stat but which is needed for arrows as opposed to, say, crossbows) with 3/4ths BAB who still doesn't have enough feats.
To wit: the original proposal devoted all save one of its feats toward longbow fighting. No room left for Improved Initiative, Expanded Arcana, Scion of War, Spell Penetration, etc.
MrCharisma wrote:
I disagree with Slim that bards aren't great archers. They lack bonus feats, but they get enough static bonuses to hit and damage to be great damage dealers without worrying too much about stats. You also maximise Inspire Courage by adding more attacks to the group.

"Great", Adj. ...of ability, quality, or eminence considerably above the normal or average.

So what's "average" when it comes to archery? What are we comparing it to? Robin Hood? A 1st-level commoner plinking his daddy's bow? Or a 6th-level fighter, slayer, cavalier, "bowbarian", or Abadar warpriest with a Keen repeater? ...a 6th-level bard with a bow and any number of archery feats will not be the equal of any of the latter, let alone "considerably" superior. I.e., they won't be "great", at least as far as their archery goes. They'll be average, or "mediocre" (my choice of word), at the expense of also being a mediocre bard due to showing that side little to no feat love.

~ ~ ~

How the "archery bard" can mostly have his cake, and mostly eat it too, mostly:

Starting CHA:19 (human, 17,14,12,12,12,7 20pt single-dump array)
traits: Dangerously Curious, Reactionary
01 Swashbuckler1 [Flying Blade], Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Shot
02 Monk1 [Far Strike:Quick Draw][archery feat:Precise Shot]
03 Bard1 [core], Weapon Focus:Starknife or Flagbearer
04 Bard2 [swap Versatile Performance for Desna's Shooting Star], CHA>20

gear: Blinkback Belt at 4th or 5th

* All-in charisma for spellcasting, melee attacks, ranged attacks, melee damage, ranged damage, and armor-class on-demand boost (panache point into Canny Defense).

* Feat investment in archery is already complete (aside from Clustered Shots at enemy-DR-becoming-a-problem levels), so everything else will be casting or performance-related.

* Unlike the bow archer, your ammunition expense are zero, Adaptive is an enhancement you don't need, and you're not spending twice the money for also upgrading a separate melee weapon.


Amarah wrote:
VITAL STRIKE (PRO, with 2d6 weapon i can deal a lot of damage

Well, you'll do + ~7 more damage on a move+standard. I like Vital Strike, especially in mobile enlarged barbarian skirmisher builds, but i would say it's only an average feat for a warpriest normally at the head of the line.

Remember that combat is about attrition. Dishing it out is nice, but you also need to attend to your capacity for taking it. Being a high-con/high-saves dwarf helps. Having swift-healing definitely helps. But you still can't be a pincushion....

Slim Jim wrote:
Lastly, since you are the point-man, your AC is more important than your weapon

If you're on point, not getting hit takes priority over maximizing damage. E.g., you take your one or two giant-sticker stabs, and then the GM rolls nine d20s for the three monsters claw-claw-biting you. So, yeah: "Boring" feats like Shield Focus (which you were "maybe" thinking about at 9th) and Unhindering Shield definitely pull their weight; with those two, and a +2 buckler (as opposed to no shield at all while two-handing), you'd be relatively +4 AC toward those nine d20s, and that AC differential keeps getting bigger the more gold you can throw at the shield.

In fact, it's often better idea to upgrade your shield first until you have a better idea of what your likely long-haul dexterity is going to be, as well as give you time to decide whether or not you'll be getting a special-materials suit, or will save up for Celestial Plate.


Gray Doge wrote:
So very Wow. Just, wow. This is somehow even more WOW!

ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ


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Wonderstell wrote:
Honestly it's just Bane being too good.

<eyebrow lift> Sacred Geometry came out of an Occult book.

_____________

Ping Pong: The Early Years (5th-level Emperor Cobra Challenge)

STR: 16 (human: 17,16,13,12,7,7 20pt array)
DEX+ 19
CON: 12 or 13
INT: 7
WIS: 13 or 12
CHA: 7

traits: Accelerated Drinker, Bestial Wrath
01 Wild Child1 [Companion][Flexibility][Cunning], Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes
02 Id Rager1 [rage][emotion:Anger:Power Attack]
03 Primal Companion Hunter1 [Evolution Pool:2], Paired Opportunists
04 Primal Companion Hunter2 [Outflank], DEX>20
05 Primal Companion Hunter3 [Hunter’s Tactics*][Pack Flanking], Broken Wing Gambit
*Auto-share: Outflank, Pack Flanking, Broken Wing Gambit, Paired Opportunists

Animal Companion (4th level): Axe Beak
Large stats: STR18+1+1*, DEX15+1, CON16, INT3, WIS11, CHA10
Huge stats with belt and activated dire collar: STR22, DEX16(+2-2)
Feats (2): Combat Reflexes, Power Attack
Primal Transformation evolution pool: 2
(*Bumped STR twice since neither companion feat requires INT3.)

Rider gear: Scabbard of Vigor (1800gp), MW fauchard(164gp), Opalescent White Pyramid (1500gp; cracked:fauchard), scroll Greensight (x2, 400gp), wand Lead Blades (caster level 2, 1500gp), potion Enlarge Person (50gp), whetstone (2cp)

Animal gear: Belt of Incredible Dexterity +2(4000gp), Dire Collar(1000gp), MW Tooth Caps* (200gp)

*What are “tooth caps”? Glad you asked. Because my GM is awesome, he agreed with me that it was ultra-lame that boars and rhinos can use tusk blades, but there’s nothing for other animal attack forms. So he said, “Sure! Make something sensible that works exactly the same for your critter at the same cost!” See? Martials can have nice things if they ask nicely. Aren’t home-games great?

Gold spent: 10464.02

~ ~ ~

Preliminary calculations....

Rider attack:
6 (Str 22 when enlarged and raging)
4 BAB
4 Pack Flanking
3 Scabbard of Vigor
-2 Power Attack
= +15
4 (Paired Opportunists AoA confirmation bonus)
2 (crit conformation bonus: Bestial Wrath)

Mount attack:
6 (Str 22 when enlarged)
3 BAB
4 Pack Flanking
1 MW
-2 Power Attack
= +12
4 (Paired Opportunists AoA confirmation bonus)

Pre-combat: sharpen tooth-caps with whetstone
Pre-combat buff 1: Greensight for both (30 min)
Pre-combat buff 2: Lead Blades (2 min)
Declared ready: activate Dire Collar upon site of enemies

With Greensight up, the large opponent 30’ away is seen in our sleep, and the readied action goes off. The PC is now an enlarged rider atop a huge mount. As a “long” huge creature, the bird has 20’ reach matching the reach of its large rider’s polearm. Sucks that we’re both losing one AoO/round gettin’ big, but whatevah. <Roll INIT; GM tells us we go first. Sweet.>

~ ~ ~

Round 1:
- Swift action: Primal Transformation evolution: Improved Damage (1 of 2)
- Move action: accelerated drink Enlarge Person potion
- (as part of a move): draw fauchard from harnessed Scabbard
- (as part of drawing a weapon): set Vigor bonus to +3 for 3 rounds
- Standard action: ready to attack opponent entering zone
- Free action: declare Broken Wing Gambit intentions
- Free action: rage
- Mount: similarly readies to attack / BWG.

Enemy turn:
...The snake is attacked by two readied-actions at 20’ distance, then eats a pile of AoOs generated by its continued movement, Broken Wing Gambit, Outflank-triggering crits, and twin Paired Opportunists reverberating off of everything.

Damage, rider: enlarged lead blades fauchard 3d8+18 (22str,2hPA,+3 enh) = 31.5
…with a +15, rider hits AC18 on 3s, hits AoOs on 2s, and confirms crits on 2s
…critical hit contribution is [.15][.95][31.5] = 4.48875 throughout encounter

Damage, mount: bite 3d6+14 = 24.5 + 19-20/x2 tooth-cap crit = 26.95 total base
…with a +12, mount hits AC18 on 6s, and hits AoOs (but not crits) on 2s;
…[.75][24.5] + [.1][.75][24.5] = 20.2125 = [.75][26.95] math check success!

Readied attack rider: [.9][31.5] + 4.48875 = 32.83875
Readied attack mount: [.75][26.95] = 20.2125

AoO chains will unspool in any of several ways; below is one example:

Raoo1 Rider’s enemy-movement AoO: [.95][31.5]+4.48875 = 34.41375
Maoo1 Mount’s Paired Opportunists AoO: [.95][26.95] = 25.6025
Raoo2 Rider’s Paired Opportunists AoO: 34.41375
Maoo2 Mount’s enemy-movement AoO: 25.6025
Raoo3 Rider’s 2nd Paired Opportunists AoO: 34.41375
Maoo3 Mount’s 2nd Paired Opportunists AoO: 25.6025
Raoo4 Rider’s Broken Wing Gambit AoO: 34.41375
Maoo4 Mount’s 3rd Paired Opportunists AoO: 25.6025
Raoo5 Rider’s 3rd Paired Opportunists AoO: 34.41375

(In nominal reality, this cobra would be obliterated pulp before getting close enough to attack and trigger Broken Wing Gambit, but DPR contests such as these operate inside a Schrödinger's box.)

32.83875 + 20.2125 + 172.06875 + 102.41 + 1(whetstone)

Round 1 Total: 328.53

Like Pearl the Fat Vampire, that snake shouldn’t have moved.

~ ~ ~

Round 2
…The rider atop his huge mount has a +1 higher ground bonus versus merely large opponents, and now hits on 2s. The positions of everyone in the Round 2 diagram are going to be different to accommodate the mount’s huge footprint, and there is the potential of a DPR "bust" depending on the layout. But let's give our boys the benefit of the doubt, because that yields bigger numbers! The huge bird just 5' to the lower-right, because it's huge, and can, because those logs and boulders don't bother it at all as they crunch under its pile-driver feet. Alternatively, the GM allows humongous creatures humongous steps because realism, and we'd simply 10ft-step "south". In any event, the snake in the top-center is now either out of range 20ft to the "north", or it is 15' away and can't 5' to its lower-right due to terrain which is too difficult for it -- so either way that particular snake will have to move through threatened zones on its turn to get within 10'.

Rider: attacks snake in upper-left; paints BWG buddy.
Mount: attacks snake on far-left; paints BWG buddy.
(Then the three snakes attack, each triggering various AoO sequences.)

Rider’s .9>.95 difference is 1.575; + 327.53 (Round 1 sans whetstone)

Round 2 Total: 329.105

~ ~ ~

Round 3
…I saw you trying to get away, you rotten snake, but there’s no escape in a swamp that shallow.

Swift action: Primal Transformation evolution: Swim (2 of 2)
Move action: Martial Flexibility >>> Aquatic Combatant

Mount: moves up to 20' from the snake, straddling the floundering ally in the water and providing them with AoO-denying soft-cover (they're basically under the belly of a huge wading creature). Rider yells at them to withdraw between its tree-trunk legs back to shore. The fight now play out similar to Round 1: the cobra is attacked twice, then eats a pile of fissioning AoOs when moves across threatened squares to its only reachable targets.

Round 3 Total: 329.105

Grand Total: 986.74

~ ~ ~

Ping: ”Dang it! Almost a thou. And no Savage Technologists were roided in the making of.”

Ally: ”I’m really feeling overshadowed here. I mean, over and beyond your giant monster side-kick shading out the sun.”

Ping: "Whatchoo talkin' 'bout, Rufus? I did more than the bird."

Rufus: "Oh is that was that thing the size of a house is? Its top half is above the clouds; I can't really tell."

Ping: "So anyway, what's a tasty halfling morsel like you doing in the water with a 200 lbs snake? You're essentially an hors d'oeuvre."

Rufus: "I'm going to retrain into a sorcerer."

Ping: "That's the spirit. Will you learn Haste?"


Kept selling the Goblin d20 T-shirts. Wear one, get a free re-roll once per session.

...ah, those were the salad days of PFS....


Quote:
"Legacy Weapon (Su): As a standard action, you can expend 1 point of mental focus and touch a weapon to grant it an enhancement bonus. The bonus is equal to 1 + 1 for every 6 occultist levels you possess (to a maximum of +4 at 18th level). Enhancement bonuses gained by this ability stack with those of the weapon, to a maximum of +5. You can also imbue the weapon with any one weapon special ability with an equivalent enhancement bonus less than or equal to your maximum bonus by reducing the granted enhancement bonus by the appropriate amount. The item must have an enhancement bonus of at least +1 (from the item itself or from legacy weapon) to gain a weapon special ability. In either case, these bonuses last for 1 minute."

Der...wut? Gobbledegook much?

Some time ago, somewhere else, I opined that prudent GMs ought strike off their otherwise "everything is allowed" player access list anything with the word "Occult" in its title, and I stand by it.

(But I digress... Continue the snake slaughter; I'll have my own up in a bit.)


<shrug>

Bard advice given.

"Another satisfied customer!"


Quote:
I have consistently and repeatedly stolen the spotlight by murderhoboing my way through rooms. And the truth is, I don't WANT to play another DPR machine

I'm not seeing how my build's carrying a banner while staying out of melee isn't catering perfectly to your wishes to not play a DPR machine. My suggestion gave you 0 DPR, doubled-up party-buffing at 1st, and Deific Obedience at 2nd without spending a feat. It let's you be the bookworm you want to be while still meaningfully contributing in a manner that will never outshine anyone else's melee character.


The Underwater Combat rules are dicy with the Round 3 cobra enjoying full concealment. --Even if you have aquatic movement and/or Freedom of Movement, you still can't *see* the thing from the shore. (Practically speaking, the location of the snake shouldn't even be depicted on Avr's chart; there'd just be a surface ripple marking where it went in last round.)

You could stick your head underwater to try and spot it (assuming the water is even clear rather than tannin murk), but for all you know, the snake is right there waiting to AoO your dumb noggin with six inch fangs to pump your brain full of poison.


Shorticus wrote:

Professor Gaddurn is a Halfling Archivist (Bard), the stereotypical bumbling scholar type. His stats are as follows:

9/16/12/14/10/17 - 20 pt. buy

I would only "bumble" (be clumsy) for show (i.e., when Bluffing). You kept your dexterity up, so all's good there. (Point-buy seems off a bit for a halfling <fixed below> and there's no need to spend a point raising the racially-dumped strength to a 9 in a small race whose gear is mostly half- or even quarter-weight, and that's before a haversack.)
Quote:
Traits are going to include Helpful (Halfling), boosting my Aid Another to a +4. I will probably try and grab something with an Initiative boost as well.

Reactionary for INIT is good, but Aid Another tactics I've never been a fan of (you're a caster and skills hound; you should almost always have something better to do in combat than putting yourself in the threatened zone of a multiattack monster in order to AA a tougher ally (because then the thing will 5' around the tank and rip you to pieces instead of flailing impotently at your thicker-skinned ally's better AC -- you are the squishiest member of the party; keep your head down). And watch out for gibbering mouthers (just generic advice from one halfling to another; I don't know if they're in this adventure-path).

(Ah, Mirror Image, so much fun you are, evilly tempting bards to their melee doom, making 'em think they're safe until suddenly they're not and eat seventy right in the face.)

Quote:
Yeah, boosting my CON is 100% on the table. Maybe I could drop STR and CHA by 1 each, netting me +2 CON?
Drop Str? Sure. Drop Cha? Nooooo. Better idea: Keep Cha and Dex both up (so you're a great bard who gets hit less), and stay safe so your hitpoints aren't thrashed. Bumping Con from 12 to 14 nets you a miserable 1hp per level, whereas not getting hit will usually save you ten to twenty times that per enemy whiff. You can also UMD wands, not to mention just cast Cure spells without checks. The main thing you can't do easily (at least not without roasting all of your feats) is dish out pure martial levels of damage in melee. Well, are you a bookworm or a barbarian? Choose one to be great at. Your party already has two high-damage melees from the look of things, and I'm guessing the cleric will be no slouch either.
Quote:
The above stats can be modified if they're suboptimal, but I MUST have good Intelligence and Charisma. I don't intend to do much walloping in melee, but I have ways to help that aren't whackity-whack.

I'll bite: Why do you need high INT? You're not a wizard, and you also have Versatile Training (even if you sack the first one for a Deific Obedience...more on that later), and Archivists pick up Lore Master at 2nd for a free take-20 on a Kn once/day to cashier into a Naturalist performance. So, you don't really need that eighth skillpoint/level with an INT of 14 costing three more build points than a 12. As others have noted, boosting bonuses to Knowledge skills is quite easy, and you can do it even while dumb as a box of rocks.

~ ~ ~

STR- 8
DEX+ 17 (raise 8th)
CON: 12
INT: 12 (halfling, 15,15,12,12,12,10 20pt array)
WIS: 12
CHA+ 17 (raise 4th, 12th+Tome)

* halfling racial alternative traits: Danger Detection, Fleet of Foot, Shadowhunter, Small Quarter Ally
* character traits: Fate's Favored, Reactionary

01 bard1 Flagbearer

...at 1st-level, merely by holding a flag and being a small quarter ally, you're sharing a +1 to attack and damage, a +1 morale bonus to all saves, +2 versus fear saves (and +3 to yourself), all without taking an action! (When you Inspire Courage, add 1 to all those numbers except the morale bonuses.) Tip: locked-gauntlet, flag, spring-loaded wrist-sheath, and a buckler all on the same arm leaves the other one free for somatics or Tanglefoot-chucking.

I'm also going to recommend being a core bard rather than an Archivist at 1st-level. You might not have been aware of it, but the Archivist's Inspire-forfeiting Naturalist bonuses only apply to a single enemy ("...a creature..."), whereas regular Inspire works versus the entire Zerg rush, including those that haven't charged out of the weeds yet. The Archivist can't use any of the game's umpitty Inspire-boosting wondrous items, feats, spells, etc. Having insight instead of morale bonuses is tempting, but it's nowhere near worth it, and especially not at low levels where you'll still be failing skill checks half the time. Archivist also forfeits Versatile Performance, and not just one of them, all of them, costing you a slot useful for tucking in the Deific Obedience that you wanted, and robbing you of free skill-ranks down the road as well (this being why you felt pressed toward higher INT). --Have you ever had that feeling that most archetypes are self-nerf traps? (Browsing archetype further... Geez, it even sacks Suggestion too ...ouch.)

02 bard2 [trade a Versatile Performance for Deific Obedience:Irori]
03 bard3 Lingering Song-
04 bard4
05 bard5 FEATg (maybe Weapon Finesse now...?)
...finesse would be the sole concession to weapon/combat feats, and taken to help out with the whips and an Agile rapier. Otherwise, don't take it. Feats should go toward making you an awesome, higher-tier magical face who eventually has everybody and everything eating out of his hand.

If you want to look fancy in the mid-levels, pick up a +1/Training(Weapon Finesse)/Agile rapier. --You won't be a real swashbuckler with Precise Strike, but you can sure fake looking like one when you poke things for ten damage, because, for some reason, you wanted to do that, and have well-heeled noble levels of money to squander on mere steel.


Shorticus wrote:
If you want to be a paladin and you get free proficiency with a heavy repeating crossbow, you honestly might consider core paladin. There's absolutely nothing bad about the core paladin, and as crazy as it sounds I prefer it over the ranged paladin archetype - Divine Hunter - simply because it keeps Aura of Justice, one of the most powerful abilities in the game.

Agreed, every word. Core pally is one of the strongest martial and buffing classes in the game, and to buff, all they have to do is stand there and bathe the party in their auras -- so archetypes that trade away auras are invariably nerf-traps.

~ ~ ~

STR: 10 (14-4moved)
DEX: 16 (14+2 racial)
CON: 12
INT: 12
WIS: 10
CHA: 22 (16+4moved+2 racial)

racial alternative traits: none
character traits: Bralani's Step, Dangerously Curious

01 Paladin1 EWP:Heavy Repeating Crossbow(GM boon), Fey Foundling
...how your heavenly parents lost you in the woods is your back-story.

02 Paladin2 [divine grace][Lay on Hands]
...squares your saves away, and unlocks hefty self-healing as swifts.

03 Far Strike Monk1 [Quick Draw][free archery or monk feat][Flurry], Desna's Shooting Star
...this archetype grants proficiency in and flurry with all throwing weapons, and now you're flurrying with a charisma-based weapon in melee and (soon) ranged combat without having to Smite, and have basically picked up four feats in one level. Five or six or seven, if you consider the +2 boost to all saves, and all the class skill unlocks that you might've otherwise taken Additional Traits to get. Sacrifice: kiss armor goodbye to flurry. But you're +8 to AC via UMD'ing Mage Armor and Shield (the first before combat, the latter as a readied-action at the outbreak of combat); i.e., standard wizard/monk AC deployments from now on.
...a Blinkback Belt is your first major item purchase, not a charisma headband.

04 paladin3 [divine health][aura of courage]
05 paladin4 [spells][smite 2/day][channel], Greater Mercy
06 paladin5 [bond:mount?]
07 paladin6 [Mercy], FEATg (Monstrous Companion?)


Are the Retraining rules available to you? --Then dip early to front-load goodies, then gradually retrain dip levels away later to unlock straight-class end-loaded stuff.


All d10 one-handed weapons are exotic.


Crossbows are OK if you're a strength-dumped build who generates really exorbitant numeric bonuses to damage (e.g., something that, say, a halfling paladin would be really good at, for example, with a heavy repeating crossbow, since crossbows threaten crits twice as often as arrows, and four times as often if you plan on taking Improved Critical or Keen, whereas as you probably wouldn't with a bow).

Quote:
I was looking eventually for the holy gun paladin archetype but I don't know if it's good.
I like the idea of paladins being flexible switch-hitters, since Smite works with any weapon, ranged or melee, and Lay on Hands grants them near best-in-game hitpoint soak for absorbing massive punishment (so, get in there and intercept the hits that would kill your teammates).
Quote:
My characteristics are 16 14 14 12 12 10 and I can move 4 points but not less than 10.
I am assuming that means that these are rolled stats, but the GM is letting you shift up to four pips, but you cannot dump the robbed number under 10...correct? Do you then apply racial bonuses?
Quote:
The other players are playing a musket master and a melee monk.

Your starting numbers and GM move-four gimmick mean you could start with a 20, so you've a nice start for just about anything. I agree with Lelomenia that "standard Smite" (i.e., core paladin) is better than Holy Gun, and using a gun also treads on the other player's staked-out turf speciality.

STR: 20 (14+4moved+2 racial)
DEX: 12
CON: 12
INT: 10
WIS: 10 (14-4moved)
CHA: 18 (16+2 racial)
(Or start with a 22 and a 16 for str and cha, and swap them as you prefer.)

Concept: heavy-armor melee bruiser who'll sometimes quickdraw a bow when smiting. He's full-BAB, so innate dexterity doesn't have to be stellar.


I'm not a fan of archer bards because archery takes too many feats. --You'll end up being a mediocre bard (because you spent most of your feats on archery) and a mediocre archer (because your point-buy is skewed toward charisma, which is a dump-stat for martial archers, and away from strength, a bard's usual dump stat but which is needed for arrows as opposed to, say, crossbows) with 3/4ths BAB who still doesn't have enough feats. With Desna's Shooting Star being a thing now, archer-bards can be safely left in the 3e dust. (Unless you're stuck in PFS.)

Slim Jim's Bard Feat Axiom: "Look through your bard's feat list and separate out any that have to do with weapons or increasing damage or attack-bonus. Throw those in the trash. -- You are a bard. Be awesome at it."

Shooting Star is the sole exception, for those minmaxing charisma.


Nosta1300 wrote:

So looking over the cavalier / Samurai order and came across the order of the eastern star and I love the fluff of it and the bonus are nice. Ideally I'd like to be DEX BASE and wield a katana or something similar

Multi classing is fine. And I need advice on feats Any one got advice?

Try this:

STR- 8
DEX+ 17* (raise 4th, 12th+Manual)
CON: 15 (raise 8th)
INT: 12
WIS: 12 (halfling, 15,15,12,12,12,10 20pt array)
CHA+ 14
(*Resist the temptation to minmax attributes further; they're all important. As a halfling, a 17 here is the equivalent of a 19 in a human in terms of attack-bonus.)

racial traits: Danger Detection, Outrider, Shadowhunter, Small Quarter Ally#
character traits: Adopted(Changling>Bitter Heart), Fate's Favored#
(# These two together grant a +2 Luck bonus to fear saves stacking with your halfling racial bonus, and share a +1 Luck bonus on fear saves to all allies within 60'.)

STR:7
DEX+ 19
CON: 14
INT: 12 (Human stat alternative: 17,14,12,12,12,7 20pt array)
WIS: 12
CHA: 12

Halfling is better if you're doing the defensive-fighting Eastern Star thing, and want better saves (humans have the worst core racial saves in the game). The halfling array is actually stronger and enjoys much lighter equipment with the same attack-bonus and AC despite lower dexterity. Dextrous halflings can also smuggle a medium-sized mount via mithral breastplate with the Hostling enhancement (or not need to, because their dog can go more places), but only heavy armor (that dex'ers won't wear) can Hostle a large-sized horse. The horse is better in combat, of course, albeit mainly low-level, and you'll occasionally enjoy +1 higher ground bonuses. IMO the trade-off isn't worth it.

Levels advancement (halfling):
01 Samurai1 [Mount], Additional Traits: Cautious Warrior, Hongal Bloodrider
02 uRogue1 [Weapon Finesse][SA1d6]
03 Fighter1 [Dragoon:Mounted Combat, Skill Focus:Ride], Boon Companion
04 uRogue2 [evasion][Combat trick:TWF], DEX>18
05 uRogue3 [Finesse:Wakizashi Dex>Dmg][SA2d6], Indomitable Mount
06 Samurai2 [Order of the Eastern Star]
07 Samurai3 [Expertise:Wakizashi], Piranha Strike or FEATg

Gear: wand Mage Armor (UMD'd pre-combat), nets, lassos, quilted cloth armor (not upgraded as we save up for Celestial Armor), Belt of Incredible Dexterity, studded leather barding, +2 light quickdraw shield, Champion's Banner, Opalescent White Pyramid ioun stone (cracked)(martial proficiency: Heavy Repeating Crossbow)

Build stack benefits:
* front-loaded skills and feats
* full-level animal companion
* +6 to Ride, not counting saddle or other gear, and a Ride check substitutes for one AC check and one saving throw check per round against the mount.
* Quickdraw wakizashis without needing a feat
* +4 to confirm crits with wakizashis, and +2 confirm with anything else
* TWF with Piranha Strike and DEX>damage (i.e., sneak attacks unimportant)
* AC+5 while defensive fighting before Eastern Star's contributions

Rage-monk variant:
01 samurai, Additional Traits: Cautious Warrior, Dangerously Curious
02 fighter [dragoon]
03 sohei1 [Mounted Skirmisher], boon companion
04 sohei2 [Crane Style], ...now optionally shift alignment to non-lawful
05 (any dex-rage class), Extra Rage or Indomitable Mount
06 samurai2 ...etc.

* Features better saves, better mounted mobile full-attacks, better defensive fighting, and a higher attack bonus from 5th. Downsides are a need to spend an extra trait for item casting, feats are delayed, is -1 Ride, and you have to pay money for Agile on multiple weapons. Damage is lower at 4th (no uRogue dex>dmg) unless already rich enough for Agile. Where this variant really shines: any campaign in which the GM permits cestus (among other "glove" weapons) and unarmed strikes to stack, because then you'll totally Flurry with those (instead of TWF'ing wakizashis) while wearing an Amulet of Mighty Fists (Agile), and holy smokes will the damage roll in once your M&M gloves are upgraded to Furious (and you only need one of them, instead of two, because that's how Flurry works). I had an early, pre-cestus-nerfed PFS human dex-rage samurai built similarly (he dipped Fighter[Unarmed] for Dragon Style, instead of the monk levels) who just demolished party-tiered melee encounters.

Cavalier variants: These trade away the Samurai's powerful Resolve ability and Expertise for some Teamwork feats and Cavalier's Charge. You are also eligible for Vambraces of the Tactician, which will add some damage to Challenged opponents. Personally, I thing long-haul samurai is better than cavalier (Resolve is just phenomenal at higher levels when the enemy begins dumping stacking penalties on you all day long, and you can make them go away without a check. Or you nauseated or staggered? Not anymore!)

Anyway, lots of idea to pick and choose from.


I wouldn't worry about it. He only looks overpowered at 5th when he's flurrying and dropping a Ki point for an extra attack. But in another level, the other martials will be BAB6 and pick up their iterative, good BAB6-required feats come on-line, and the casters are more likely to have a spare Haste for the party (meaning Joe Average schleb fighter goes from one attack to three a round). Everybody is also finally getting enough money for good gear, and attack-bonuses will correspondingly escalate.


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Quote:
We were in a dungeon large enough for 1 person and I was leading the group. A demon saw me and charged, I had my aoo bu then he closed me in a corner where I couldn't 5 feet step away and attack again and I had to switchc weapons to fight.

That's OK; because you did your job correctly.

The job of the high-AC/high-HP dwarf is to be a blockage in the choke-point, preventing the bad guys from swamping the party and splicking a squishy in one hit. If you do any damage while choke-pointing, that's just gravy. If you whiff for five straight rounds on choke while your archery allies rain fire over your head into the enemy, and nobody else gets hurt -- you are the star MVP. Fervor away your owies, and on to the next encounter.

If you're crowded while Enlarged, take out your dwarven waraxe and chop away. (I like Quick Draw.) Remember that you can Fervor-heal as a swift-action (your warpriest is one of the few classes in the game, aside from paladin, who can do that). If you're running low, drop the Enlarge and switch to defensive-fighting for an instant +3 to +4 to AC (depending upon your dexterity/armor coefficient).

Lastly, since you are the point-man, your AC is more important than your weapon, because you're going to eat a lot more in-bound than you'll get to dish out. (And your kinfolk won't think much of you unless you return from your surface adventuring having Craft Magic Arms and Armor, with all of your gear self-made. They catch you wearing elf-made mithral, you'll be shunned.)


FreezingWolf wrote:
@Slim Jim. That would be hilarious. XD

It's actually doable:

* You'll be Conjuration(Teleportation) School for the Shift ability.

* Always be carrying a scroll of Infernal Healing, with a ready-action declared to cast it upon the outbreak of combat. (Getting dropped below 0hp isn't your worst problem; it's dealing with the -2 stabilization checks!) You'll spend half of your starting gold having scribed a pile of these.

* Convince at least one party martial to take the feat Friendly Switch at 1st level. That dude is your wingman.

* Always hide behind the pack animals. (Convince the party to use yaks, as they have 42hp.)

* Never cast attack magic, because your save DCs just aren't that high to begin with. Instead, play yourself like a harmless bard who hangs in the back and buffs and knows all the Knowledge skill answers. Maybe a Grease here and there, but that's about it. Busy yourself scribing a billion utility scrolls. Don't give the enemy any reason to go after you primarily, or any reason for your allies not to consider you the mostest fabulist support guy ever imminently worth protecting to their utmost ability.

* Get an owl familiar, and for your starting traits, have one of them be Eyes and Ears of the City. Your Perception score at 1st-level will be....

1 (wisdom 13)
1 (skill rank)
3 (class skill)
1 (Eyes and Ears)
2 Alertness from familiar
3 hawk familiar bonus
2 Elven Keen Senses
= +13

...and the hawk itself has +14 Perception as a separate roll, and as you have Empathic Link, you'll be able to immediately tell if your familiar is distressed upon noticing enemies that your own roll has missed.

Yeah: you could take a familiar that buffs your pathetic hitpoints, but if it ever comes to needing them, it won't be enough. Better to always see things first, pop off that Infernal Healing, and never be without actions in the surprise round.

~ ~ ~

Basically, just make it to 3rd, then go "god wizard" mode who never drops out of Invisibility due to never making direct targeting attacks. Buff allies, battlefield control, summons, crafting, etc.


Quote:
the things his character does the most is to take some sort of stance whereby he rushes up adjacent to a foe, strikes him, then instantly prepares himself to automatically strike if the foe makes any sort of move. Then he adds another maneuver that allows him to punch an enemy so hard it lifts them up to 10 feet straight up off the ground.... EDIT: I should also add he's only 5th level but can deal more damage in a round than the Slayer and the Monk can do combined....

Only 5th? Hmm.... Sounds like he's stacking Opportune Parry and Riposte with Combat Reflexes and the Panther Parry feat chain in some sort of piercing unarmed-strike build. (This probable multiclass combo would need all of good dexterity, wisdom, and charisma bonuses for AoOs, parry uses, and panache, respectively. So, high-dex w/Agile AoMF? Pre-nerf Kata Master monk might work as a straight-class; they don't get OP&R now.)

In any event, AoO-exploiter builds can do crazy stupid damage due to sheer number of attacks, especially in comparison to others at 5th only receiving one attack -- and parry monks are just the tip of the iceberg (auto-sharing Teamworks feats with sidekicks is the real cheddarfield). --But it's only damage, and they only get it when you-the-GM toss them a pile of monsters to beat on.

If all of your encounters devolve to melee combat, expect bruiser builds.


Avr, is the snake challenge like the ape one in that the three rounds are not consecutive? Also, does the 20% concealment apply throughout, or only in the first one? Lastly, does the whole thing repeat later in the day? (I.e., two separate three-rounders.)


Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Slim Jim wrote:
The game is a lot easier when you consider the Tolkienesque core races "honorary humans", and then choose the one most suitable for the class you have in mind.
Maybe, but the OP started the thread with a Half Orc, and if they still want to play a Half Orc, I think that's just swell.

I never suggested that he not play a half-orc. (Half-orcs make decent if unexceptional rogues.)

What I suggested was that he not murder his point-buy to get a 20 at 1st-level. That 20 represent *only* a +5 to attack and damage. "Only!?", I hear you retort. Yes. Only. Sure: it's *everything* at 1st, when your average adversary has AC13 and 7hp. But as you level, the percentage of attack and damage obtained via the raw stat bonus rapidly dwindles, while the irritations of crippled saving-throws and butchered skills dog the minmax/pointbuy character every millipede step along the way. By 4th, a rogue will be getting +3 to hit from BAB, +1 from a belt, +1 from a feat, and +1 from a masterwork weapon -- meaning that those 17-crushed-out-of-20 build points are now contributing less than 50% of his total attack-bonus load after only three level bumps.

01 rogue1 BAB0, Weapon Finesse
-compared to-
01 barbarian1 BAB1, Raging Vitality

The half-orc dex-rogue is +5 to hit at a cost of 17 build-points for a racially-bumped 20 at 1st level. The barbarian, if built with Str 16 and Con 15 (point-buy of 17 for both stats), rages for +6 to hit at 1st-level, and has 15hp during battle versus the rogue's 10hp (assuming a 14 con). Half-orcs make decent rogues; they make excellent barbarians...who can then multiclass two to four levels of rogue and do really nicely after the beef is salted away at 1st.

Dexterity tricks require greater system-mastery to pull off, as they're typically associated with more fragile builds (e.g., rogues with poor saving throws deliberately seeking melee rather than sniping roles catering to their innate stealth, builds with penalized strength scores getting stuffed by grapple monsters, AC going from terrific to terrible while flat-footed, and so forth). It's all solvable, but it's a lot of work. Meanwhile, the dwarf in ō-yoroi with a tower shield wonders why everybody keeps dying all the time. "Never gettin' hit works for me!"

The Pathfinder iconic knife-chucker rogue (Merisiel, prudently built with an 18 rather than 20 Dex at 1st) works because she stays out of the full-attack range of her opponents. Rogues who deliberately seek out melee have to be very careful. Merisiel is also an elf, a race with built-in mental defenses, so she can get away with a garbage wisdom score to pay for those good physical attributes (not that she doesn't still blow saves routinely, which the comics have a lot of fun with).


Play an elf wizard.

6 Con, baby!

*Dare* the GM to just splat you instantly.

(If he doesn't, then you're permanently Invisible and False Life'd at 3rd.)


As far as I know, all gender pronouns in Pathfinder material match the associated iconic artwork, and this extends across every archetype in a class as well (e.g., all barbarian pronouns are female, all fighter pronouns are male, etc), since archetypes do not have unique iconics.)


Sparrows are your worst enemy.


Ryze Kuja wrote:

Wizard5/Fighter1/EldKnight10

...
Edit: Once you get access to Beast Shape III at level 5 spells (which should happen at level 9), you can turn yourself into a Huge Animal with +6 Str plus an...
Beast Shape III is a Transmutation(Polymorph) spell, and...
Subschool Polymorph wrote:
"...When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into your body....

BS3 is limited to animals, so no suddenly-huge fauchards.

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