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Shisumo's page

Goblin Squad Member. *** Pathfinder Society GM. Starfinder Society GM. 5,797 posts (15,084 including aliases). 1 review. 1 list. No wishlists. 28 Organized Play characters. 24 aliases.


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Liberty's Edge

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I played the psychic in this playtest. He was a human with emotional acceptance and distant mind. I archetyped him into Blessed One because I didn't have enough psychic feats I cared about and I wanted to see if I could make a healer solid enough to carry the party. Turns out, not really; didn't have the spell slots.

That's gonna be a theme here.

Tokageko wrote:

Moderate Threat: 2 Nemhaiths

Again, not much of a problem for the Rogue or the Summoner. The Thaumaturge had invested in a Ghost Touch weapon rune, so it was basically a normal fight for him and went fine. The Psychic managed to do a good amount of force damage with a spell that I can't remember the name of. Again though, dealing with damage resistance was a problem for the Psychic.

It was spirit song and my only 8th level slot. And the issues with damage resistance in this fight were kind of misleading, because I had several more things I could have done to them - if I'd been willing to spend more than one spell slot on an encounter that wasn't the boss fight. My problem with the reduction was just another symptom of the resources problem, of not having enough spell slots.

If I wasn't healing, I was casting an amped telekinetic rend, with only a couple of exceptions. I did knock a hamatula back forty feet with a crit on an amped telekinetic projectile that I was in fact using in hopes of getting the crit and clearing some space around me, but it's hard to get really excited about being effective against a level -4 bad guy.

During the fight against the final boss I did wind up spending two comparatively high-level spell slots, on a 7th level haste and a 6th level heroism, but it's also worth noting that, by the end of those four encounters, I had exactly one 4th and two 2nd level spell slots left. That was it. I was out of Focus Points, staff charges, the scrolls I had bought, the heal spell out of my prayer beads, everything. For a 15th level character to be that entirely drained after just four encounters is, frankly, absurd. My home group is 15th level in Age of Ashes right now, so I know what they're capable of.

My takeaway was this: amped telekinetic rend is solid. I never used Inertial Barrier or Strain Mind, the former because I needed the damage output more and the latter because it was completely obsoleted by Unleash Psyche - by the time I was out of Focus Points I could Unleash, so the only way I could have used it was if I somehow didn't have the action to spend Unleashing or if I needed to cast an amped arrest trajectory on the same turn I'd already cast an amped telekinetic rend, and I'm not even sure that the RAW would allow me to combine Strain Mind and an amp that triggers after casting anyway.

Oh, and speaking of arrest trajectory, it's awfully niche for a high-level, you-don't-get-to-pick-from-options "bloodline" spell. I'm not even sure I would take it if it were an ordinary cantrip unless I had way more cantrip slots than normal, but I definitely felt like I wasted the feat on that one.

Right. The feats. As Tokageko noted, I wasn't impressed. I had nine class feat slots (I took Natural Ambition) and used four of them on actual psychic class feats, and only one of those ever had any impact on the encounters. I got to use Counter Thought in one encounter, though again, it was against the hamatulas, so yay for beating up mooks better I guess? And with so freaking few spell slots, giving up one for the counter almost felt like a trap. It's worth noting that I had those four feats after going back and doing some revision to better playtest the actual class - my first draft, I had two.

In sum: probably the most frustrating play experience I've had in PF2 thus far. This class needs a straight upgrade. Give it more spell slots and don't make it trade out anything for them. Just put it on the same footing as the bard and call it done.

Liberty's Edge

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Soooooooo looking forward to restarting my subscriptions when management recognizes the union.

This is inarguably the strongest step the company could take to rebuild trust with their customers. This is an easy pitch right over the plate. Please don't just watch it go by.

(I think there was a strike pun in there somewhere but it was too subtle to track it down.)

Liberty's Edge

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And oh yeah, to the CS team: you're amazing and I hope there are nothing but good things in your future. You deserve it.

Liberty's Edge

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I started my subs at Paizo before Burnt Offerings even came out. I'm not doing this lightly. I just don't have any other way to make clear what I think about the company's management in light of these revelations.

Fix this. Make real change. Maybe I'll come back.

Liberty's Edge

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Spell lists and casting ability for any class you MCD into are kept separate from each other and from your base class (see the Spellcasting Archetypes rules found in the core book). Change wrought by a class archetype should have no impact on your multiclass spellcasting. Likewise, spellcasting from other sources, such as ancestry feats, is distinct from any casting you might or might not get from your class.

For example, Merisiel is a thief rogue, and therefore cannot prepare or cast spells. Nothing, however, prevents her from taking Otherworldly Magic and getting an arcane cantrip, even though her class does not allow her any casting capability.

Class archetypes affect your base class. That's it.

Liberty's Edge

Blave wrote:

Runelord: The archetype says

Quote:
you lose the ability to prepare or cast any spell from your school's prohibited schools. You remove all spells of those schools from your spell list
This needs some clarification on how it interacts with spellcasting archetypes. What does "your spell list" mean exactly?

Class archetypes affect your base class only. ("Class archetypes always alter or replace some of a class's static class features," PF core pg 219.) So they shouldn't affect other multiclass archetypes you may gain at all.

While I could see an argument that it might affect which innate spells you have access to - I think that's not the intention, but I can see the argument - focus spells are never on any spell list, so they aren't affected either.

Liberty's Edge

The addition of the thicket of knives spell to the book also seems designed to aid feinting magi.

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It seems to be aimed directly at Natural Medicine users.

Liberty's Edge

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As a reminder: None of us knows anything about what "most groups" do. We simply do not have the statistical perspective to make claims like that. Consider using "many groups" or "most groups I encounter" instead.

Liberty's Edge

Combination!

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I'm planning for the book to take basically two years total. There will be one academic semester (four months, as I have been planning for them to last) that covers Part One, then five more semesters for Part Two. Then, of course, Part Three is basically just a few days.

The trouble I've been running into is figuring out when the events that precede Part One happened - i.e., when did the flooding actually occur, and when was Salathiss actually doing his research at the Hababe Building.

So far, I think my plan is to break up the events that involve Goss and their friends in Part One - basically, the PCs go and interview them, learn about their strange sense of connection to the Magaambya, and have it stay there at first. Then they can go off and deal with the griffon hunt. Then, toward the end of the semester, the anadi will reach out to the PCs (since they are among the few at the school who have shown any interest in them) and ask them for help checking out some recent weirdness at the Hall. That gives Salathiss anywhere from two to five months, potentially, to have been testing the Vesicant Egg before the PCs interrupt that project permanently.

I don't think it's all that weird for doing some real, down-to-the-foundation repair work on a house to take well over a year - I've known people in real life who were dealing with contractor issues and supply problems and the like that meant their house renovations took more than a year. Two does seem long, but that's also the point: by that time, people are already asking what the heck is going on.

Liberty's Edge

SuperBidi wrote:
gesalt wrote:
AlastarOG wrote:
If you go at it with the mentality of "well they're gonna save anyway so what's the point..." You're kinda not getting the point...
You misunderstand me I think. I'm saying failure and crit failure is so rare that me and my group only aim to avoid crit success. In which case something like the occult list which mostly targets will is fine because will is rarely the strong save and it has good fallback options for when it is. Same for primal past the early levels. As such, arcane's ability to target every save feels lackluster because it provides no particular benefit.

Seems like a lazy solution: As will is rarely a high save (at low level, as a side note, it changes at high level), let's always target will so there's no need to guess what's the worst save of the enemies.

Every list can target Fortitude (and it's a bad save to target, especially at low level), but most traditions can either target Reflex or Will. Reflex spells are mostly AoE damaging spells, and Will save spells are rarely multitarget damaging spells (or quite bad ones when it comes to damage). So it's useful to be able to target each of them.

I agree - arcane has the best ability to flip between AoE and single target of any of the lists, and can usually decide which of Fort or Will they want to go after when they do go single. Now that SoM is here, arcane is also the only list with cantrips that target every defense (even if daze is not necessarily a great choice).

Liberty's Edge

I feel like we might need an update to the dueling subsystem from the GMG to cover, ah, ranged weaponry duels. If you see what I mean.

Liberty's Edge

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Kalaam wrote:

Well, you could choose to spellstrike less often and use it more to capitalize on windows of opportunity.

Creating them with feints or demoralize (for example if you can't reach the enemy this turn) which can benefit your entire team.

I feel like this is definitely going to be an option for an inexorable iron playstyle. A Strength-heavy, Athletics-heavy approach can easily combine with a guisarme or meteor hammer to do reliable, hard-hitting damage mixed with maneuvers and the occasional spellstrike nova across a decent-sized area. If you've got the map for it, throw an enlarge in as well.

Liberty's Edge

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None of that is in the rules though. The hp thing, sure, but what if your 17th level eidolon is in the area of a massacre spell and crit fails its Fort save? The death trait explicitly says that you can be killed without reducing your hp to 0. So what happens?

Liberty's Edge

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Here's a question I haven't seen an answer to yet: can an eidolon die?

Liberty's Edge

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graystone wrote:
Shisumo wrote:
That reading makes it impossible to use a 4th level spell from a staff if you have already used your 4th level spell slots, as you then are not "able to cast spells of the appropriate level."
No it doesn't. If you read it as "able to cast spells of the appropriate level", IE has slots of that level, it in no way matters if you have used that slot or not. Having the ability to use slots of an "appropriate level" is in no way impacted by casting spells out of them. You're still a spellcaster even if you currently have no spells you can cast.

Yes, you are. But "has slots of that level" and "can cast spells of that level" are not actually tied together in the rules. That's why you're still a spellcaster even if you have no spell slots available. Because having spell slots and the ability to cast spells are separate things, as described in the class feature itself. And nowhere does it say you lose the ability to cast spells just because you lose spell slots.

Liberty's Edge

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graystone wrote:
Shisumo wrote:


From what I can tell, not having an available slot at that level is not mechanically distinct from having had some at that level but having expended them all - losing spell slots does not take away the basic ability to cast spells of any level up to the highest spell slot you get.
That in no way answer the question though: To use a staff a requirement is "able to cast spells of the appropriate level". A 100% valid reading of that is 'has slots to cast spells from': IE A high level wave caster is unable to cast a spell using a lower level slot of an "appropriate level". It's something that really should be clarified.

That reading makes it impossible to use a 4th level spell from a staff if you have already used your 4th level spell slots, as you then are not "able to cast spells of the appropriate level."

Liberty's Edge

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cheezeofjustice wrote:

Another one:

As was recently brought up on reddit and during playtest, the current rules as written make it sound as if the bounded casters can't use all the spell levels in staves as to cast from a staff you need to be able to cast spells of the matching spell level and they eventually lose the ability to cast lower level spells.

Is this intended?

An extremely close read of the way the spell casting class feature works (in basically every class that has it, including the magus and the summoner) reveals that getting more spell slots and increasing the level of spell you can cast are actually separate features of the ability.

Magus's Arcane Spellcasting, SoM pg 36 wrote:
As you increase in level as a magus, your number of spell slots and the highest level of spells you can cast from spell slots increase, shown in table 2-2

Note that it says "increase" and not "increases." That means it's a verb with more than one subject. Getting more slots and getting higher spells are distinct things. And nowhere does it say that losing those slots takes away the ability you originally gained to cast spells at that level.

From what I can tell, not having an available slot at that level is not mechanically distinct from having had some at that level but having expended them all - losing spell slots does not take away the basic ability to cast spells of any level up to the highest spell slot you get.

Liberty's Edge

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I really like in-world card decks, and have always loved the Harrow deck. Now that we have the Old Mage decks described in Secrets of Magic, how's about getting one of those too? After all, it's probably the deck you play golem with, right?

Liberty's Edge

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AnimatedPaper wrote:
HumbleGamer wrote:
The only thing left is spontaneous spellcasters, who are unable to cast the proper spell of a specific level if they don't take it as a signature spell or at a specific level.
in the playtest, the summoner specifically noted that all their spells were signature spells. Is that still the case?

Yes.

Liberty's Edge

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"Appropriate" is not a defined game term, and "of exactly this level" and "or this level or higher" both seem to be perfectly valid candidates for how to interpret it.

I would argue that the way the rules in SoM are presented, particularly the staff magus and the personal staff rules, imply strongly that the book was written with the understanding that a magus can make reliable, regular use of staves throughout most of their career (excepting only the very early levels).

Liberty's Edge

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keftiu wrote:
Why would they be at a magic school?

This is the key question. Why is this character a student at the Magaambya? Why would they want to be, and why would the Magaambya allow it?

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Kyrone wrote:
Shisumo wrote:
Narxiso wrote:
Can you trigger an Arcane Cascade stance from the shield spell, or does the spell have to be offensive?
Probably going to be my go-to for getting into stance most of the time, in fact. Shield, stance, 35-foot Stride to get into flank.
Use the Jump spell, 30ft movement, cascade and Strike.

Great idea if you really need the alpha strike, but that's a spell slot, and those are expensive. Save for bosses.

Liberty's Edge

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Narxiso wrote:
Can you trigger an Arcane Cascade stance from the shield spell, or does the spell have to be offensive?

Probably going to be my go-to for getting into stance most of the time, in fact. Shield, stance, 35-foot Stride to get into flank.

Liberty's Edge

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keftiu wrote:
I forget; is Alkenstar in a dead magic zone? It’s very fun if we get a “no casters” AP so soon after Strength of Thousands.

It's more a randomly-no-magic zone. Like, for instance, in Alkenstar itself, one side of the river has magic and the other side doesn't.

Liberty's Edge

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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

(breath)

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAA

Liberty's Edge

Deriven Firelion wrote:
Kyrone wrote:
Deriven Firelion wrote:
Does the eidolon use your skill number for intimidation?
They use your skill proficiency (TEML) but their own stat modifier in the skill.
That won't make the double intimidation option ideal unless you want to invest charisma with ability bonuses in the eidolon. It might be ok as sort of a throwaway action that might work. I read their is a feat where you can get some skill feats, which maybe someone would spend on Intimidation skill feats. Maybe it would be an interesting build. We will see.

If you do take Skilled Partner, it's really likely your eidolon can eventually qualify for the fully-upgraded Intimidating Prowess, which might help offset some of the stat deficit.

Liberty's Edge

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Author or Developer Question:

Is it intentional that Paga not have Performance, especially since she has counter performance? I'm guessing not, so what should her modifier be?

Liberty's Edge

Armok: God of Blood wrote:
pp. 198, 200: Storm druids are listed as an elementalist druid but aren't allowed to take the elementalist druid focus spells.

I don't believe this to be an error. An elementalist archetype druid of the storm order can take the elementalist druid spells.

Pg 206 of Secrets of Magic wrote:
Druid Elementalist Adjustments: If you’re a druid of the storm order, you can choose to replace your starting order spell, tempest surge, with updraft (page 201).

They can then take Advanced Elemental Spell (pg 199) to gain powerful inhalation, which is true regardless of whether they take the archetype or not.

Liberty's Edge

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roquepo wrote:
Shisumo wrote:
roquepo wrote:
The attack trait is an eligible trait to craft a custom staff, right? It would help out Magus significantly.
It is not explicitly banned, but the trait is not supposed to be "overly broad." I wouldn't get my hopes up about GMs being excited about "attack" as a sufficiently-narrow trait.

Don't know how things have changed with SoM, but right now there are only 11 attack non-cantrip spells (a little bit more if you count some curses that probably will be errata-ed somewhere in the future). The fire trait has 18 and already has a staff.

I think spells that involve aiming are narrow enough.

The existence of already-extant staves should not be taken as making a trait a valid choice. Traits based on schools of magic are explicitly banned, and yet we have the staff of divination and its cousins. (Also, AoN has 14 non-cantrip, non-focus attack spells.)

Liberty's Edge

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roquepo wrote:
The attack trait is an eligible trait to craft a custom staff, right? It would help out Magus significantly.

It is not explicitly banned, but the trait is not supposed to be "overly broad." I wouldn't get my hopes up about GMs being excited about "attack" as a sufficiently-narrow trait.

Liberty's Edge

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keftiu wrote:
Do we know anything about how the Way of the Spellshot works? I’m struggling to imagine anything other than a Starlit Span Magus with a gun.

One of the obvious questions is whether it will be BYOS (Bring Your Own Spells) or if any casting - presumably cantrips - would be included. It might be set up to work something like Starlit Span but just give incredibly limited casting on its own, so that any additional spells have to come through archetypes and therefore eat up class feats. Maybe a structure kind of like eldritch trickster? "Here, have a caster archetype, it comes with two cantrips, if you want more that's on you?"

Liberty's Edge

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Kyrone wrote:
Unicore wrote:
I am looking forward to what a gunslinger sniper with the Magus MC and spell strike can do with true strike and a ridiculous chance of criting.
Don't work as you don't have access to Starlit Span as MC for ranged spellstrike.

Yeah, you'll have to go the other way with whatever gunslinger MC looks like.

Liberty's Edge

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vagrant-poet wrote:
Shisumo wrote:
I'm disappointed by how thoroughly the dormmate NPCs seem to disappear from this mod. They aren't utterly gone, but their inclusion is token at best and nothing in the adventure tells us much of anything about how they are doing, if any of them (Esi) are making progress at a similar rate as the PCs, or what misadventures they might be getting up to. Is any of that going to be addressed at all in future installments?

Generally that stuff is not followed up on, because they don't want future events to retro-actively change the NPCs paths in anyone's game. The dormmates are available, and completely free for the PCs and GMs to develop.

It's obviously fun when reading the product if beloved characters get updates, but from a game module perspective it makes sense to leave writing the rest of their stories to everyone's individual tables.

The specifics, yes, but I direct you to this quote from Kindled Magic:

Students of the Magaambya wrote:
This article presents nine fellow students of the Magaambya who learn and grow with the heroes. Although most of these students have roles in “Kindled Magic” and later adventures, feel free to develop attachments, rivalries, or even romances as matches your group’s interests and comfort.

(emphasis mine) I took that to mean we would be getting some kind of guidance about what was happening with them somewhere. Obviously, I can and will fill in those gaps myself - I'm actually thinking about making Chizire Gossip Girl, as a means to seed campus rumors into the game - I am still, as I said above, disappointed.

Paizo's fault for making such awesome NPCs. I want more!

Liberty's Edge

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I'm disappointed by how thoroughly the dormmate NPCs seem to disappear from this mod. They aren't utterly gone, but their inclusion is token at best and nothing in the adventure tells us much of anything about how they are doing, if any of them (Esi) are making progress at a similar rate as the PCs, or what misadventures they might be getting up to. Is any of that going to be addressed at all in future installments?

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Do eidolons need to eat, drink, or sleep? Can they do these things? (In general, it seems they probably can and should, but for some types - construct, phantom, plant, for instance - it seems less clear.)

Liberty's Edge

How come we didn't get any magus or summoner gear kits this time? I really find those useful for shopping shorthand. Is the assumption just that you can probably buy one of the others, like maybe the swashbuckler or sorcerer kits, and call it good?

Liberty's Edge

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Kendaan wrote:
Can Magis use Spell strike with Innate cantrips? If so, that opens a lot more options than just alternative cantrip.

The only restriction on Spellstrike is that you have to actually Cast a Spell. So magical actions that aren't actually spells don't count, but an innate cantrip absolutely would.

Liberty's Edge

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I just finished a 7th and 8th level game with a bomber alchemist who made heavy use of perpetual bottled lightnings to just make everything flat-footed. He wasn't trying to be the damage dealer, he was trying to enable the damage dealers, and he did a damned good job of it. That's a niche that electric arc can't fill.

Liberty's Edge

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Michael Sayre wrote:
Though it does bring up some interesting questions for the design team when the real meat of a thing that people want to see brought forward is a mechanical niche rather than a thematic one.

I do think there is a hunger for some kinds of mechanical niches that could be filled with a wide variety of thematic options. "I blast with magic every turn" is one, for example - it's not the only reason why people play 5E warlocks, but it's definitely a common one. Thematically, a 5E warlock looks a whole lot like a PF2 witch, but mechanically, "I blast with magic every turn" is still a missing concept in PF2. I'm less convinced that there's a strong desire for something as banal as "prepared occult caster" or "spontaneous primal caster," but in general, there are mechanics-first ideas that I think we are going to continue to see demand for until/unless they finally show up in PF2.

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Invictus Fatum wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Pages 69-70 Ostentatious Arrival blows up the summoner every time it is used since it appears as though eidolons can only be manifested next to their summoners. Surely that's unintended.
This is especially bad considering in a fight it would be a common place to just wake up from a dying condition, use your 3 actions to summon your Eidolon for protection, only to blow up the Summoner and put him in dying again. Which, of course, would de-manifest the Eidolon immediately.

Um, Ostentatious Arrival is entirely optional. I'm pretty sure this scenario isn't going to happen.

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I haven't played my magus yet, but in building her, it feels really tight. Every spell slot has to be squeezed for maximal value. I worry about it dragging me back to a 15 minute work day.

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Those were my FEELS, Michelle. I was USING those.

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So... I don't think my players are going to like Oba much. Exotic animal traders are, um, let's go with ethically problematic, and I'm not sure how enthusiastic the PCs are going to be to help her recover her animals, especially since the evidence suggests she's not even taking particularly good care of them. I predict they're going to want to confiscate her stock to set them free, and even though I doubt they would be able to succeed in convincing anyone that they should be allowed to do so, I'm guessing the players will resent being forced to help her.

I think I'm going to rewrite her as an animal rehabber, treating injured wild and dangerous animals for rerelease into the jungle, and her conflict with Froglegs was simply that Froglegs wanted to buy the griffons and Oba said no. Froglegs then sent some of her people to steal them, but that didn't go particularly well, resulting in the griffons escaping and several of Froglegs's minions getting injured. So now the crime boss is pissed and doesn't have any griffons, so she's sent her goons back to punish Oba for not just selling them in the first place.

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The occult list got a lot of love in this book.

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Pg 58 Eidolons don't seem to list their starting Perception proficiency. It's clearly meant to be Trained, but there's no actual statement to that effect in the text.

Pg 213 The Terrain Shield feat looks to be missing an action symbol (probably a Reaction).

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...am I just overlooking the eidolon's starting Perception proficiency?

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Alfa/Polaris wrote:
It's not a list, it's just the first-sentence-flavor-text.

That's my take as well, but I know that I have seen at least one poster on the forums claim that those are the only weapons II can be used with.

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Page 39 Inexorable Iron hybrid study is unclear as to what weapons are allowed for its use. The first paragraph specifically mentions greataxe, greatsword, and polearm, but the second paragraph and the thunderous strike conflux spell only require a melee weapon wielded in two hands. Is the list in the first paragraph intended to be exhaustive, or no?

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