Eric Nielsen wrote:
It is missing the vast majority of the 1e FAQs - it is as if they only copied over a few of them but didn't get all - it has the Organized Play specific FAQs but I don't see where all the other FAQs for 1e have gone (not PFS specific Campaign Clarifications but the actual FAQs that Paizo published over the years for 1e - can't find a working link to them.
Thanks - but where are the 1e FAQs? The FAQ links don't have most of the old 1e FAQs just a few for the PFS specific FAQs but seem to be missing all of the other 1e FAQs? (and it is annoying that the links to the campaign clarifications from the additional resources page are broken)
(and that I didn't see any reference to that website from the links on Paizo.com - since I'm not actively playing 2e I wasn't as familiar with that website, I kinda recall hearing about it a while back but didn't remember to check it)
I don't run 2e, where did the 1e additional resources and campaign clarifications and other PFS specific house rules documents go? Every link I see here goes to the home page now and not to the documents. I found the file from 2016 for the campaign clarifications but I don't see where all the regular FAQs, additional resources documents and other 1e legacy files have gone. The "Legacy" link on the Organized Play tab only shows the general PFS FAQs but not the additional resources documents and all the other FAQs for 1e play.
Since I like to use PFS as the starting point for my home games, as well as 1e PFS games that I run (of course) I'd love to know where / how to access the legacy files and information. I'm not going to go to 2e any time soon.
Will this be for people playing PFS 1e or just 2e? (I still haven’t made the transition to 2e not sure when or if I will - still have a lot of games and scenarios in 1e I want to play and run). But having a Kobold would be really fun.... (I have the chronicle that would allow it once but a full PC would be really fun)
Boaty McBoatface wrote:
For those of you that have run this, how long did it take? Do you think I could fit it in a one off day game 11am to 11pm ?
It would be tight. Doable but I would suggest allowing more time - there is a LOT of stuff in the Harrowing - largely because nearly every monster is just a standard monster stat block so there is a lot of room for encounters - and there are a bunch of encounters which are really fun to have enough time to roleplay them and/or to set them up as taking place in a large area (Rabbit Prince encounter for example really works well with lots of variations in heights and lots of space. I've run this in a single day but we started earlier than 11 and ended closer to midnight or a bit after.
The Harrowing may be one of my favorite Paizo modules - both as a player and as a GM. Tons of creative encounters, lots of roleplaing opportunities, lots and lots of flavor, exploration elements, puzzle solving and more. If you aren't running for PFS it will also likely include the party leveling up at least once - and keep in mind as well that it is likely to stretch over many game days (some areas could easily take a week or longer depending on the party - a week in "game" time that is. The in game timing however is almost entirely up to the GM - and I generally had it be an element of the whole realm - that some areas took longer to search through to get to a specific area than to get out of when they were done.
For the right party many of the encounters aren't all that challenging mechanically - but their flavor tends to make up for that - and it can lull the party - later on there are some really challenging encounters potentially. Especially if you allow the final BBEG to cast some buffs - which given everything else going on in the module is very likely indeed - it can make for a really challenging encounter.
Overall if you can take longer I would suggest you do so - there is a lot of fun to be had the The Harrowing.
Not sure that this works - Collar of Sacrifice has language that says "This item does not work if worn by familiars who do not have a physical life force, such as undead or construct familiars."
and Figment familiars have this language "If a figment ever strays more than 100 feet from its master or enters an antimagic field, or if a figment’s master is unconscious or asleep, the figment disappears until the next time its master prepares spells or regains her spells per day. Because it is a being of its master’s mind, a figment can never serve as a witch’s familiar, a shaman’s spirit animal, or any other spell-granting familiar, and it can’t use any divination spells or spell-like abilities the base creature has."
So I think it might be argued that figment familiars don't have a usual physical life force but equally that there is a timing issue here - the figment may cease to exist at the same time as the familiar's master dies - so may not "exist" for the collar of sacrifice to trigger as it has to wait until after the master is "slain".
Or to put another way - the figment doesn't appear to have a separate "life force" from that of the master of the figment.
Certainly as a GM in a home game I wouldn't allow this particular combo (and in PFS the collar of sacrifice isn't legal so not an issue in PFS).
that seems to have done the trick. I have never seen that "refresh downloads" button before but whatever it does it seems to have fixed my issue (or clicking the "having trouble with this download" link or some combo of these actions seems to have cleaned up my issue. Was annoying as I tried to download the guide while at Gencon to check a few things when I realized I didn't have an easily available copy with me on any of my devices.
(separate issue - I need to get my Paizo digital downloads renamed so I can tell what each file is without open every PDF...)
So no discussion of this yet?
I guess I will start.
what my table on Sun at Gencon did:
We let both Torch and his assassin aide go free. Broadly we concluded we agreed mostly with his goals. It was a fun scenario but we ran out of time so didn’t get to have the full graveknight battles. Which was disappointing. I’ll probably replay this and run it in the future.
it would have been helpful to mention this in a blog post or in the event descriptions for Genccon I was trying to update all of my PCs in advance of the special because I wasn't sure what I would need to refer to about each aid character in terms of character sheet, chronicles etc - also have a few where I think they just leveled and I hadn't finished leveling them/buying gear etc - knowing that level is all that matters is really helpful to know.
(have enough to get ready with my main character whom I haven't played in almost a year)
Kenneth Fisher wrote:
Where are the PCs supposed to start from for area C? A/B have explicit start areas, so I'm not sure where to line up characters for the encounter.
When I've run it (twice now) I've lined them up on the lower right hand of the map which felt like the logical place (since it seems like the map leads upward from there to a high point where the final ceremony is taking place - and starting the PCs very close to the human cultists etc seems odd. But it is a failing of this last map to not definitely answer this.
Also as a GM I did allow the players to use the start of the round effect if they succeeded to do things that literally reshaped the battlefield - and more to the point at this level you can probably assume that the players have a lot of mobility options and for the movement of the enemies the map is relatively small already.
another minor stat block error - the level 15 worm that walks stats have too many regular feats and too few wizard bonus feats. I suspect that someone thought that either eschew materials or spell focus or augment summoning would be valid wizard bonus feats.
(this also makes the high tier functionally a bit different from the low tier in a way that will be a bit challenging for GMs - i.e. remembering to apply spell focuses and augment summoning. Eschew materials likely won't make a big difference and given the mage armor at the low tier the armor related feats for the default worm that walks also won't have much of an impact.
Also some minor errors in the spells (too few level ones, too many for a few others)
I’m prepping this and one minor item I noted (I use Hero labs when gming especially at cons). The Worm that walks stats in the scenario differ from the base example - which has a +4 leather armor (and spell failure chance as well as arcane armor training). The scenario clearly expects the worm to only be using mage armor (See the section for the stats without current spells)
What spells have people used? Given the projected image it is likely the worm will get off more than a few spells while the party also deals with the beetle. Given the staff it seems reasonable to use insect plague.
What would make for the best shadow focused character (PFS legal - so no gloomblade flighters at the moment however awesome they are).
Assume that I own most PFS sanctioned materials.
I was considering a gnome or wayang Oracle with the Shadow mystery (there are a few ways to gain wizard spells of the shadow subschool as such an oracle as divine spells onto the oracle spell list (and as bonus spells known) - however the revelation that grants this seems best taken at a fairly high level (since it adds a max of 1/2 oracle class level number of spells up to your CHA modifier - so the highest CHA possible and taken at the highest level gives the best benefit)
There is also another revelation that allows such an oracle to apply the shadow template to any creatures summoned that would usually get the celestial or fiendish template - so summoning shadow creatures would be a viable tactic for such an oracle.
However balancing the feats needed - to boost illusion spells as well as conjuration summoning as well as any feats specific to shadow related spells might make for a very difficult build.
(the basic idea was that there are lot of ways to make illusions (and specifically shadow subschool spells) function at higher DCs and at higher CL levels (and deal higher amounts of damage to people who save vs the illusion) - and the massive flexibility it could offer might fit a spontaneous caster very very well.
But the challenge is how do to so while being fun to play at all levels of PFS play (1-11) and having options against any foes if illusion spells don't work well.
(and I'm open to prestige classes or to multiclassing if the benefits are strong enough and fit the theme - i.e. would a level of wizard (shadow school) which includes a free spell focus (in place of scribe scroll) be useful for this build? (which might open up mystic theurge as an option) or would a level as a sorcerer (perhaps tattooed sorcerer) offer benefits? Sorcerer of course being CHA based being an easier to fit in multiclass option)
I'm just going to ask the sane question: why is our non-transformed sorcerer going to walk up to melee combat and scratch somebody twice? I can see someone doing this at first level but after that? I can see a bloodrager doing that sure, but its a huge difference.
Dragon Disciples don't play like regular casters - they have partial BAB, D12 hit dice, inherent boosts to STR, CON (and later INT), a bite on top of the draconic bloodline claws, natural AC boosts and more - they can be played like nearly full casters who happen to be very very strong and physical - or they can be nearly full martial characters who just happen to have a fair amount of casting (exactly what type depends on what arcane spontaneous caster class they chose) or they can be played as something in-between. Which can indeed mean a caster that happens to get very very physical (focusing on Transmutation spells/buffs can help this type of build)
But the short answer is - they are not typically statted out like a typical sorcerer - if you are going Dragon Disciple it is likely that your STR will be close to your CHA (may even be equal or higher), you likely have a higher CON than typical casters as well - and you may also have taken some levels in a martial class. I've built Dragon Disciples that wear heavy armor (a Paladin/Bard/Dragon Disciple who is careful to select only spells without somatic components to avoid arcane armor failure - unless it doesn't really matter like cantrips such as detect magic). My gnome sorcerer/ dragon disciple originally also had 2 levels of fighter (lore warden) but I retrained one of those. He was primarily a caster - but could also handle himself in the midst of combat quite quite well.
For both the claws and bite are used only as needed (for the paladin largely to get a secondary natural attack (bite) that will benefit from smite evil)
Draconic Bloodline claws are not permanent - they are only for so many rounds per day (Dragon Disciple adds a bite attack when you use your bloodline claws ability - some GMs rule that it also applies when you use other claws but that is a house rule.
However you can still build a viable DD that uses natural attacks - you just need to focus on having other sources of natural attacks on top of your bloodline abilities - as well as having other things to do in combat.
- bloodrager might be a viable option to consider (less casting than a sorcerer dragon disciple however - but more martial ability)
- pick a race with natural attacks (but not a bite) - lots of options to get two natural claw attacks from your choice of races (if you can find a race that offers a natural attack that isn't a claw or a bite you can focus on that attack then for some number of rounds per day stack on the draconic bloodline claws & bite for even more attacks.
Natural attack builds suffer from getting thru DR at higher levels (due to the expense of enchanting an amulet of mighty fists) BUT if you can get many different natural attacks the expense can be worth it due to how many attacks you gain as your full BAB and STR bonus (which as a DD should be very high) - stacking on power attack as well as ideally other sources of bonus damage per attack is very effective. Paladin builds can offer limited way to handle DR (smite) but there may be better options for a natural attacking build (since you probably want minimal armor for greater mobility / easier spellcasting).
well thankfully the herbs section etc are all now up on Archives of Nethys and the PRD so you can look them over without committing to the whole book. I think the shifter is more interesting than the reviews (and there is a new archetype of it from of all things a splatbook Distant Realms which seems exceptionally good.
You clearly haven't read the new herbs sections from Ultimate WIlderness - they are mostly very expensive - not stuff that gets subsumed into components pouches - the cheapest herbs in the book are a few gold - but others are 1000+ gp. I've skimmed them but haven't decided yet if any are worth using regularly (a few seem worth having much as you keep around a few key potions or scrolls for emergancies). And yes I'll hand out some alchemical items - but in PFS play you do have to be careful about what you spend resources on (though alchemists do get to do some limited crafting one of the few ways you can do any in PFS play).
And to be clear they are NOT spell components - they are a new form of item (not exactly magical items - closer to alchemical items but not made with craft alchemy). For PFS play you ignore some of their usual rules (about how long they last unused and the rules subsystem for foraging) but the items themselves are legal. There are bunch in Ultimate Wilderness and I think more in one or two other spltbooks.
(and there are a bunch of other new things for alchemists - concoctions from Adventure's Armory 2 offer a small bonus but also a small penalty and there are various food items that would also be thematic for an herbalist to look into use - spices etc)
In terms of the rules for PFS play I haven't seen any documentation about what is the official PFS rules re Skills Focus vs Extra Bombs for this archetype - it is reasonable to conclude either options since the Extra Bombs feat isn't a wasted feat (and typically you go with the PFS rules unless there is a specific exception - I'm posing this question because for some reason Hero Labs coded it as skill focus - but I haven't see anything on the Paizo site to support that (but I easily could have missed it - since the new version of the website it is increasingly easy to miss a key blog post or update)
I will point out that the utility of using cures against undead depends greatly on the monsters you face in your campaign - in a game without little undead enemies it isn't as useful - in a game where undead are common foes at many levels it would indeed be excellent (though some other spells might give greater damage for a given spell level - i.e. an intensified shocking grasp with a trait to keep it as a 1st level spell would be 10d6 electrical damage at level 10 while a first level cure light wounds would be 1d8+5.
Yes. I know what most alchemists get. However other archetypes of alchemist that remove bombs have typically gotten Skill Focus instead of Extra Bombs (If they don’t replace brew potion). Herbalist does not replace brew potion but hero labs was showing it as getting skill focus (when configured to make a PFS character). However I haven’t found anything specific on Paizo’s organized play pages that confirm that this is the intention. (It may be an error in hero labs or I may have missed a note about it). In this case while the Herbalist does not have bombs it does get seedpods which specifically say extra bombs will work with them (however it doesn’t have similar language to allow spells or discoveries or any other bomb related feats or traits to work with seedpods).
In a home game I would offer a player their choice of brew potion, extra bombs or skill focus but for PFS play I need to confirm if the archetype gets extra bombs or skill focus.
And no herbalism / herb use isn’t moot in the least. In fact the herbs from Ultimate Wilderness are PFS legal (and do not spoil or expire). And the rules cover how to resolve it (and PFS has specific rules - basically no foraging PCs meeting specific criteria can purchase herbs at a discount. The question is are any of the of specific interest? (As this character is going to have ranks in profession herbalism since it replaces craft alchemy for herbalists.
“The herbalism subsystem is not legal for play; instead a PC with at least one rank in Craft (alchemy) and 1 rank in either Knowledge (nature) or Profession (herbalist) can purchase the herbs in this book at a 10% discount that does not stack with other discounts; if a PC's ranks in these skills are 5 or higher, the discount increases to 15%, and if a PC's ranks in these skills are 10 or higher, the discount increases to 20%”
Since this PC would have a likely rank in profession Herbalist for every level it seems worth seeing if any of the herbs offer useful value (and at which levels). Likewise as an alchemist crafting alchemical items is a rare PFS exception to the general rule against crafting (though PFS simplifies the mechanics a bit) it is worrrh being well aware of the alchemical item options (and useful magical items) and exploring what fits the character theme and offers mechanical benefits.
Yes I think this is right. The tradeoff of no somatic components is in higher DC for concentration checks (with the option of a move action to reduce it but that’s not something a magus will typically want to do) as well as various effects that will shit down many psychic spells (emotion spells or fear effects like being frightened or shaken)
Seedpods are a ranged touch attack - so they don't deliver splash damage (so less useful against swarms etc) but they will hit reliably so do deliver damage + debuffs. And entangled or sickened or blinded are pretty useful (and at 2nd level vision limited to 10 feet while not full blindness is still a pretty solid debuff against any opponent that needs to target the party (spell casters or ranged attackers). So I woudln't call it worthless but the inability to get fast bombs or to vary their effect via discoveries is limiting. (and they don't get WIS to damage like a traditional alchemist's bombs so damage will already be lower).
(and it isn't clear but I think bomb admixtures won't work with them either)
Yeah, the mithral buckler is somewhat cheesy - I think it is clear that a vestigal arm could use it - less clear that a tentacle could. In any caee I think I would probably go the natural weapon route primarily (especially tempting given some dips that would get natural claws all the time).
(less clear is if the vine leshy qualifies for Aspect of the Beast since they have a natural shape change)
Vine strike and Visualization of the Body are not PFS legal alas (and Vine Strike is already on the Alchemist list). The Leshy already gets an inherent ability to turn into a vine (with "results similar to Tree Shape" which as a GM I would interpret as using Tree Shape's specifics if necessary) so not sure that either Tree Shape or Meld into Stone add much. Speak with Animals is potentially useful from time to time - but the vine leshy already gets at will speak with vines which in many cases will be as useful it not more useful (though certainly more situational than speak with animals so that's certainly a good option)
Bristle is definitely a potential option. Vine Leshy's even get an alternative favored class bonus for Alchemists to increase their natural AC from their mutagen by 1/4 per level (though 4 HP or 4 skill ranks may be more generally useful)
Longstrider for the long duration seemed like a good choice. Feather Step is certainly a good choice as wel - and probably what I'll go with (I tend to prefer long duration buffs to save actions in combat)
Not sure that Bone Fists is a legal option (or at least for an Alchemist you don't get to give it to other characters so it is weaker than for other classes - similar to an Alchemist's Haste which only effects the alchemist - which makes Channel Vigor nearly always a better choice for alchemists as a 3rd level spell)
I generally don't like casters with stronger other stats but that's personal preference (though arguably since few alchemist abilities care about DC it is less vital for alchemists to have a high DC) though for the Vine Leshy the DCs for their seedpods (and their number of seedpods) will depend on WIS. But yes a STR build is an option.
For third level I looked at Greater Magic Fang which is another very long duration buff that works well with feral mutagen or with using other transformations (Fey Form I offers a lot of great options though one of the best Muse has natural ranged sonic attacks so unclear if magic fang effects those)
Alchemists don't get shield proficiency nor do they have many two-handed weapon options (only simple weapon proficiency and Vine Leshy's don't get any racial weapon proficiencies) so without multiclassing getting an additional appendage to hold a shield isn't very helpful (and
The change in multi-classing means that classes that are not good choices for an INT based Alchemist might be options - Cleric, Warpriest, Inquisitor, Druid, Monk etc (anything that is WIS based) - they may still not offer enough to justify a dip but it becomes worth exploring especially if you are focused on melee as it may help with filling out feats and/or weapon proficiencies (or AC in the case of a Monk dip)
So for PFS I have a boon to let me play a Vine Leshy and the Herbalist archetype of Alchemists from Ultimate Wilderness is PFS legal (if you have a Vine Leshy character) so I want to give it a shot.
However a few things are giving me pause.
1) Does the Herbalist get Extra Bombs (in place of Brew Potions) or Skill Focus? The archetype trades out the Bomb class feature (which in other cases in PFS play have meant that those archetypes got Skill Focus in place of Brew Potions) however the Herbalist's replacement specifically allows Extra Bombs to work with it (Seedpods). Hero Labs seems to think it gets Skill Focus but I haven't see any note to that effect in the PFS pages.
2) What Druid spells qualify for Natural Spells? (the Herbalist gets to ADD two Druid Spells to their Alchemist spell list every time they gain a new level of extracts). Do spells like Produce Flame qualify? Finding spells that would be good additions is surprisingly difficult as there is already a lot of overlap between the Alchemist and Druid spells lists. Note the Herbalist uses WIS not INT for all class abilities and spellcasting (and uses Profession Herbalist in place of Craft Alchemy including getting a 1/2 level competence bonus)
3) Without the Bombs class feature it leaves the Herbalist with mutagen related discoveries and general discoveries. What discoveries do you think would be good choices for the Herbalist? I'm trying to decide what approach the Herbalist is best suited for - seems like ranged attacking with seedpods + some other weapons might be doable (however no Throw Anything is an important downside of this approach), Mutagen and melee focus could be doable though small size doesn't help (suggests weapon finesse as the approach and go dex - so some degree of switch hitting) and with the addition of druid spells some focus on extracts seems doable - albeit limited by the alchemist spell list - which is best for self-buffing.
4) are there any herbs that the herbalist should be foraging for along with any fun alchemical items it should be focused on making/using? (without throw anything it doesn't get the usual alchemist advantages with throwing splash weapons)
With a likely WIS > Dex > Con > STR > INT > CHA ability array is there any multiclassing options that might be a good choice? With WIS being high it may open up some options that typically aren't great for an alchemist. Are there any that would be worth the delay in extracts?
side note - it appears that Hero Labs has some errors in their implementation of Herbalist - they give Natural Spells at 5th level which I think should have been 7th level when the alchemist gains 3rd level extracts. (and they show some other archetypes as being legal when they actually replace the same class feature - poison immunity)
Overall the Herbalist looks like it could be a really fun class - Vine Leshy's get a lot of nifty racial abilities (plantspeech, pass without trace etc) and are a small race without a STR penalty and the herbalist gives them a lot of nice debuffing attacks with their seedpods (eventually entangling, blinding, sickening as options)
Link shows up as "does not exist"
I was also going to note that the Animal Companion is missing from Poog which I think is a lost opportunity especially for a module intended to be played by players new to Pathfinder - they are likely going to miss that he has an animal companion let alone know how to make one up (and with a pregenerated character part of the fun is not having to do character generation to try something new). Too late now but this is also a rather large source of table variation for PFS play...
As well given that this is intended for PFS play is there a reason why 6 goblins aren't just stated out from the start? It would be great if the new Free RPG Day modules were designed to accommodate 6 player tables with ease (yes i know you just end up with multiples of a given character).
(I'm running this tomorrow...)
So in the process of rebuilding a PFS character (who qualified for a full rebuild - at level 11 so it has been complex) I am looking at Alchemist as an option for him and had the following thought.
If he takes tumor familiar as a discovery and the infusion discovery and casts touch injection (but shares it with his familiar) how can he take advantage of the action economy this could offer.
Not via quesrionable abuses like having the familiar touch an enemy and deliver poly purpose paneca or skinsend but via the far simpliar route of delivering an infusion to the alchemist.
- channel vigor (so have better saves or haste up without spending an action buffing)
Seems like for rounds per level buffs this could offer great action economy. And even for minute per level buffs that you might not always be able to cast ahead of combat (though at level 11 11 minutes is often enough time for multiple encounters)
Are there other options I should consider (either extracts or useful potions or other touch injection possible options like potions etc). But generally potions I would probably prefer to drink via alchemical allocation (and enhance potion discovery) for long lasting buffs at the cost of acquiring the potion once.
And are there any games to play via various methods to combine alchemical items (via magic items probably won’t take the discovery)
So I have tried a bunch of builds and am currently most intrigued by two similar builds.
One - a pure hexcrafter magus build - gets a decent amount of spells, of course can do the whole shocking grasp trick for some nova damage (10d6 electrical isn't shabby) and is decent at landing the initial dirty trick thanks to arcane accuracy and/or spell combat with a true strike. Would play like a bit of an unusual magus thanks to the hexes (which become great if you run out of spells to spell combat with) - and evil eye + cackle is going to make you friends with the rest of the party much of the time. Not as good of a hexer as a full witch (and no major hexes) but still quite strong. Decent at the skills but not outsanding.
Or Two - my current direction I'm leaning - an investigator (Psychic Detective) 1 / Unchained Rogue (Sylvan Trickster) 10.
This build gets LOTS of options all pretty solid - sylvan trickster means at level 10 you get major hexes (and extra rogue talent means additional feats = additional hexes) - so level 10 rogue talent is for Stalker Talent (a vigilante feat) to get a dirty trick specific - and then level 11 feat is for extra rogue talent / fey tricks for major hex (Ice Tomb most likely - but Agony is tempting as well). One way to make this build that I really like is to focus on natural attacks - claws from alternative tiefling ability, prehensile hair from a hex and a bite from a ring of rat fangs means four natural attacks two of which get dex to damage (claws), one gets INT to damage (hair) and while the bite gets little regular damage - it still gets sneak attack if it lands.... and one amulet of mighty fists enhances them all.
Only +16 to hit which at level 11 might be a problem at times - but most of the time foes will have a bunch of penalties to their AC pretty quickly (either via Evil Eye or via dirty trick (blind) followed by debilitating strike (bewildered) with each additional sneak attack that lands adding further rounds to the penalties - and oh yeah, adding 5d6 damage with each hit.
And when it adds blinded via dirty trick it can't be removed for one round - and to land that initial dirty trick he can use inspiration in combat (only 3x a day but still very useful) - and arguably the amulet of mighty fists should add a bonus to CMB for dirty tricks performed with natural attacks or unarmed strikes... but Hero Labs doesn't seem to handle that so not sure about it entirely. That would be +25 for dirty tricks (which is solid if at high levels not certain of landing)
Between 10 rounds of air walk (via gale armor) + flight hex (10 mins of fly in 1 min increments) he should always be flying. When needed he can even use telekenetic projectile to land a sneak attack at range. His saves are a bit low (but inspiration could help here as well) and I suspect his AC is also a bit low (but evasion + a small amount of DR should help him)
Full Rogue Build:
Kiet - recreation #3 - rogue investigator
Male tiefling investigator (psychic detective) 1/unchained rogue 10 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 30, Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 264, Pathfinder RPG Occult Adventures 119, Pathfinder Unchained 20, Ultimate Wilderness 77)
LG Medium outsider (native)
Init +7; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +14
AC 24, touch 18, flat-footed 17 (+4 armor, +7 Dex, +1 insight, +2 shield)
hp 101 (11d8+43)
Fort +8, Ref +19, Will +8; +4 vs. fey and plant-targeted effects
Defensive Abilities danger sense +3, evasion; DR 2/cold iron; Resist cold 5, electricity 5, fire 5
Speed 30 ft.
Melee bite +16 (1d4 plus 5d6 sneak attack), 2 claws +16 (1d4+9 plus 5d6 sneak attack), hair +16 (1d3+8 plus 5d6 sneak attack)
Special Attacks sneak attack (unchained) +5d6
Rogue (Unchained) Spell-Like Abilities (CL 10th; concentration +8)
At will—feather fall (self only)
Investigator (Psychic Detective) Spells Known (CL 1st; concentration +7)
1st (3/day)—heightened awareness[ACG], ill omen[APG]
0 (at will)—detect magic, mage hand, prestidigitation, telekinetic projectile[OA]
Str 7, Dex 24, Con 14, Int 22, Wis 10, Cha 7
Base Atk +7; CMB +15 (+23 dirty trick); CMD 23 (27 vs. dirty trick)
Feats Agile Maneuvers, Extra Rogue Talent[APG], Extra Rogue Talent[APG], Extra Rogue Talent[APG], Fey Obedience, Greater Dirty Trick[APG], Improved Dirty Trick[APG], Toughness, Weapon Finesse
Traits fey hex (irrisen), shadow stabber
Skills Acrobatics +15, Appraise +14, Craft (weapons) +12, Disable Device +22, Escape Artist +21, Fly +16, Knowledge (arcana) +20, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +20, Knowledge (engineering) +15, Knowledge (geography) +15, Knowledge (history) +15, Knowledge (local) +20, Knowledge (nature) +20, Knowledge (nobility) +15, Knowledge (planes) +20, Knowledge (religion) +20, Linguistics +15, Perception +14, Sense Motive +14, Sleight of Hand +23, Spellcraft +24, Stealth +21, Survival +0 (+2 to avoid becoming lost), Swim +2, Use Magic Device +12; Racial Modifiers +4 Fly
Languages Abyssal, Common, Infernal, Sylvan
SQ debilitating injury: bewildered, debilitating injury: disoriented, debilitating injury: hampered, fey tricks (cackle[APG], evil eye[APG], flight[APG], ice tomb[UM], prehensile hair[UM], slumber[APG]), inspiration (6/day), prehensile tail[ARG], rogue talents (stalker talent[UI], underhanded trick), trapfinding +1, wild empathy +10
Other Gear gale armor[UC], burglar's buckler[UE], +2 amulet of mighty fists, belt of incredible dexterity +4, cloak of resistance +3, dusty rose prism ioun stone, gauntlet of the skilled maneuver (dirty trick)[UE], headband of vast intelligence +4, ring of rat fangs[ARG], wayfinder[ISWG], investigator starting formula book, 1,577 gp
+4 to Intelligence skill checks (Su) Gain a +4 bonus on Intelligence-based skill checks.
Agile Maneuvers Use DEX instead of STR for CMB
Cackle (Su) As a move action, extend the duration of other hexes by 1 rd.
Damage Reduction (2/cold iron) You have Damage Reduction against all except Cold Iron attacks.
Danger Sense +3 (Ex) +3 bonus on reflex saves and AC against traps.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Debilitating Injury: Bewildered -2/-6 (Ex) Foe who takes sneak attack damage takes AC pen (more vs. striker) for 1 rd.
Debilitating Injury: Disoriented -2/-6 (Ex) Foe who takes sneak attack damage takes attack pen (more vs. striker) for 1 rd.
Debilitating Injury: Hampered (Ex) Foe who takes sneak attack damage has speed halved (and can't 5 ft step) for 1 rd.
Deceitful Trick (Ex) Perform dirty trick in place of first attack of a full attack, inflict two conditions.
Energy Resistance, Cold (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Cold attacks.
Energy Resistance, Electricity (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Electricity attacks.
Energy Resistance, Fire (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Fire attacks.
Evasion (Ex) If succeed on Reflex save for half dam, take none instead.
Evil Eye -4 (9 rounds, DC 21) (Su) Foe in 30 ft takes penalty to your choice of AC, attacks, saves, ability or skill checks (Will part).
Fey Obedience Daily obediences to prove devotion to an Eldest and gain benefits.
Greater Dirty Trick Dirty Trick penalty lasts 1d4 rds, +1 per 5 over CMD and takes a standard action to remove.
Ice Tomb (DC 21) (Su) A storm of ice and freezing wind envelops the creature, which takes 3d8 points of cold damage (Fortitude half). If the target fails its save, it is paralyzed and unconscious but does not need to eat or breathe while the ice lasts. The ice has 20 hit
Improved Dirty Trick You don't provoke attacks of opportunity when performing a dirty trick.
Inspiration (+1d6, 6/day) (Ex) Use 1 point, +1d6 to trained skill or ability check. Use 2 points, to add to attack or save.
Prehensile Hair (10/day) (Su) The witch can instantly cause her hair (or even her eyebrows) to grow up to 10 feet long or to shrink to its normal length, and can manipulate her hair as if it were a limb with a Strength score equal to her Intelligence score. Her hair has reach 10
Prehensile Tail Your tail can retrieve small objects on your person as a swift action.
Slumber (10 rounds, DC 21) (Su) Foe in 30 ft falls asleep for duration, or until damaged or roused by ally (Will neg).
Sneak Attack (Unchained) +5d6 Attacks deal extra dam if flank foe or if foe is flat-footed.
Trapfinding +1 Gain a bonus to find or disable traps, including magical ones.
Underhanded Trick Dirty Trick blinding can't be removed for 1 rd. Can ignore pre-reqs of Greater Dirty Trick.
Wild Empathy +10 (Ex) Improve the attitude of an animal, as if using Diplomacy.
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Tieflings of the default variety do but there are many heritages that get different bonus stats for tieflings so there is some flexibility there (and as a player I don't typically like using Darkness so am leaning to another variety of Tiefling in any case (or at least trading out Darkness for something else)
Why make the character Dex based? It was previously but the rebuild doesn't have to be - feels like there is a lot of finicky bits to making that work curious why it seems to be the focus of many of the suggestions? (full rebuild means I can change his stats - going STR will make it a bit easier to make him a CMB focused character)
Studied Combat is good - but the Investigator is only a partial BAB class - so net at level 11 it is only about +2 boost to effective CMB (or basic to hit) but only has two attacks (if not going to the feat heavy route of two-weapon attacking) - so unless I take some natural weapons (and use them as secondary attacks) he will have trouble both landing a dirty trick and doing much else in a given round
the original build uses maneuver master monk for flurry of maneuvers plus the actual two weapon fighting chain of feats to offer a lot of options to land many sneak attacks when attacking
that said once the dirty trick is applied blinded helps a non-full BAB class land more hits (and combine with flanking or other boosts...)
Investigator certainly is tempting from a skills perspective.
Magus is definitely a potential options - bladebound could indeed save some funds for other items.
I second the recommendation for swashigator. Once you get studied target at 5th, your GM will cry.
Again this is a level 11 rebuild for PFS. So what matters is the effectiveness at that level (and most of the time I’m the GM so when I play I want something really fun for me to play. Not sure swashtigator really is it as I already have a mostly swashbuckler character (who is fun admittedly but also takes a very specific approach to make work well). Parry and riposte builds take stuff like an answering weapon and provoking attacks. While the original of this character focused on locking down enemies via stuff like blinding to prevent AoOs (and then at higher levels focused on leveraging a blinded opponent to take many attacks each with sneak attack damage).
While technically a full rebuild in PFS can change everything about a character (other than some gold and prestige purchases) this is an 11th level character with an extensive history. I don’t want to change him dramatically.
Aspects that I won’t change:
- Skill focused with a high INT (at least very high knowledge skills and spellcraft)
- tiefling (though may change his variety)
- lawful good (so not a barbarian) - he was tempted by the whole Lissalian arc but atoned
- focused on debuffing (likely via dirty tricks) followed by a means to take enemies down (sneak attack or the like to benefit from applied debuffs. However I’m open to various means to do this)
So barbarian is an unlikely chassis for this build - he’s also the type of character to use lots of magic not be superstitious about it (and the character was always intended to have some degree of arcane ability)
As I noted he was DEX and INT focused - I’m open to switching that to STR and INT which could make some builds easier (hurts AC but simplifies boosting CMB and avoids the need for a finesse build. However he probably still needs decent DEX for some feat chains.
The original character had a glaring weakness in his will saves and poor wisdom and charisma that hurt his usefulness out of combat beyond making knowledge checks.
I like the Swashtigator but a few questions:
- what does swashbuckler add to the overall build? (it makes it harder for example to use the great burgler's buckler that fits the concept so well) - I looked at build that would be a straight Investigator (and another that would be an Investigator Questioner that I really like - gives up extracts/alchemy for spells from the Bard list - which means actual 0 level spells) - instead of trying to make it a Dex build I just made it a STR build.
- not sure that single weapon trick (light blades) is worth it - have to ponder that (other options would be quick dirty trick and/or dirty trick related style feats)
- sickening offensive is a solid option (also looked at the whole combat focused chain of investigator talents) + an inspired blade could add a decent amount of potential in combat
I think it is doable but does suffer from not being a full BAB class and being relatively feat starved compared to some other build options (and if you lose your rapier the build is far less productive in combat)
Questioner + the right Fey Obedience however does result in very very high Knowledge skills (+20 or higher easily without max skill ranks + 1d8 inspiration die = you make your knowledge checks and can even if needed take 20 on knowledge checks even in combat. So that does fit the character thematically (and overall results in a high skilled character - if also MAD to do anything very well.
Ryze Kuja wrote:
This is for PFS play - so I can never assume that anyone will have any given teamwork feat unless my character either has a companion (i.e. familiar or animal companion that gets teamwork feats) or if the character has a class feature to grant teamwork feats to members of the party - but even then in any given party it is never certain that there will be another character who wants to be a front liner.
other options I am considering:
Brawler - gets maneuver training, martial flexibility could help swap in some of the advanced ditry trick feats as needed (or swap in grapple or another chain of feats when that's better). The Wild Child archetype trades out most of the bonus feats for a full level animal companion (who will get to make all the same combat maneuvers) but that may be giving up too much. Not sure if brawler would be best as a straight class or in combination with another class that might add some further precision damage options (to take full advantage of blinded enemies). Martial flexibility however well it plays up a "smart" fighter some other Brawler class features would encourage dumping INT (since Brawlers qualify as having INT of 13 for the purposes of feats - though there are a handful of feats where having a very high INT might be really beneficial.
Fighter - Unarmed Fighter archetype to pick up style feats in particular but with some builds might be a bit redundant and makes the "smart" part of the character harder.
Rogue - Fey Prankster (some nifty features but unsure if they are worthwhile in the end) - however the flavor may fit other thoughts I have re worshipping an Eldest (there is an Eldest who has an obedience that grants a huge bonus to ALL Int skills that would fit well for this character concept)
Investigator (Questioner) - kinda out there but could it work? Easily fits the skill monkey goal (one build gets to nearly +20s across the board with all knowledge skills while still having a lot of other skills at a high level. Damage would be the challenge though not impossible (inspired weapon would help to a degree)
Instead of monk I would probably just take level(s) in Fighter with the Unarmed Fighter archetype which also helps get a style feat, gives improved unarmed strike and is full BAB (though doesn't help saves or offer other occasionally useful features as a monk level would)
I recently ran The Moonscar for the second time at a local convention (Kublacon) which means that at least a dozen local players (in the Bay Area) have very high level characters (16-18th level). The run went well - took an entire convention day (9am to midnight) skipping only a few encounters. So overall a good experience if exhausting.
I offered to run Witchwar Legacy for some of the players in the future (probably not at a convention but over multiple long game sessions so time and sheer exhaustion is less of a factor - and probably only for a 4-5 person table not a full 6 person table).
But I had the thought that would it be even more thematic to run the last book of Reign of Winter (which is also 15-17 tier) first before running Witchwar Legacy? Has anyone done this (run it for a group of characters that haven't been playing the whole AP previously)?
How did it go?
Has anyone run other last books of sanctioned APs as standalone adventures for high level PFS characters? If so how did that go?
Many of the best chronicle sheet boons for the adventure assume that the character has played one or more of the earlier books - so that is a factor - and the culminating book of an AP also has a lot of AP specific components and assumptions which might not work as well for a table of PFS characters. But the options for high level sanctioned play are limited.
No way he is going to be a half-orc - he's an old character and was a tiefling which aren't currently allowed so probably my only Tiefling in PFS.
I don't believe that in PFS you can take non-Unchained monk archetypes with the new Unchained Monk - at least not Monk of the Seven Forms (which replaces a class feature that unchained monk's don't get - maneuver training). And that same problem applies to Maneuver Master Monks that replace a bunch of class features that don't exist in the non-Unchained monk. And the two archetypes can't be taken together even with a regular Monk as they both replace the same class feature (quivering palm). Finally a regular monk would need to take Exotic Weapon Proficiency to use the Waveblade. So while it is a nice sounding combo of archetypes it isn't PFS legal (or technically legal by RAW though many GMs might house rule it as being ok)
(the fact that the two archetypes both modify Bonus Feats is also arguably another reason they can't be combined - especially since they modify the bonus feats in an opposing manner - with one archetype removing bonus feats that the other archetype ADDS as being available at an earlier level)
For high level play a 1 level animal companion is worse than useless - not worth getting and won't land them in any case (or survive to get into position to give a flank)
Untamed rager can't be combined with manuever master monk (monks and barbarians can't be multiclassed except for a few very unique archetypes that swap out alignment requirements - or very specific race and racial trait combos that open up alternative alignments). Perhaps an option to consider but this character is also ALL about being the smartest, most knowledgable character in the room - which means raging unless perhaps it was a controlled rage that allowed for the continued use of Int based skills is very much antithetical to his character (which is very much knowing something about almost everything and leveraging that knowledge to attack weaknesses - which it isn't mechanically needed I always played his Dirty Tricks as being taking advantage of weaknesses that he knew about via making his knowledge checks against a given foe)
Cad Fighter is potentially an option I will consider - doesn't help much with the skills in the same way that Lore Warden (old version) did but does offer some nice aspects. Though flavorwise it isn't a perfect fit (this character is Lawful Good - uses dirty tricks because applied well they can end combats quickly and occasionally with less bloodshed on both sides.
The nerf is many fold - huge changes to Lore Warden but not least because relative to other archetypes it was actually rather too strong (bonus to ALL combat maneuvers plus all INT skills as class skills + additional skill ranks etc made it a very strong choice as a dip into fighter for a lot of builds - most other archetypes or classes only offer at most a boost to a couple of specific combat maneuvers (i.e. see Cad Fighter). They also nerfed a bunch of the items and other options the character had chosen but a full rebuild is a very generous option (and there are a ton of very nice martial classes now available that weren't when I first made this character back in 2012 so the rebuild offers me a chance to explore many options.
He was a monk for really only a handful of things - fast movement, flurry of maneuvers to get attacks + combat maneuver (which is quite strong when you open with a blinding attack and follow up with a bunch of attacks that all deliver sneak attacks), boosts to his saves (as the old version of monk helped saves considerably even with just one level dip), improved unarmed strike and a bonus feat. Which if I multiclass with the new character is definitely still tempting (less so with the unchained monk as it no longer helps will saves).
The challenge he always faced was multiclassing hurt his BAB (and thus CMB) and to a lesser degree his HP and overall survivability as a result - the rebuild likely allows me to address that.
I am finally rebuilding one of my all time favorite PFS characters who needs to be fully rebuilt as it was based on the old now banned Lore Warden. He was a skill monkey dirty trick focused lore warden/mmaneuver master monk of the four winds/rogue (and may have had one fourth class that was arcane but I don’t recall exactly). He had +15 or higher on a dozen skills including spellcraft and all knowledges (and used a cloak of the hedge wizard -divination to cast detect magic and identify items). He was a daemon blooded tiefling with a prehensile tail. However his precise build (now broken by all kinds of errata and rule changes) doesn’t matter.
I need to do a level 11 PFS legal full rebuild of him which means everything about him can change.
The basics however I want to keep are:
- race - a tiefling
Due to multiclassing he had every skill except Heal as a class skill. However in the rebuild I don’t need to hit that somewhat dubious achievement but I would like to have all knowledge skillls as class skills.
Notable boons: - bonus feat (but use for one that isn’t part of a chain and the feat was acquired late in his leveling so best as a capstone feat not a core part of a build)
He could via rebuild be a build that wouldn’t have been great at lower levels. Previously he was Dex and Int (high and equal), con, STR, then low and dumped CHA and wis but via the rebuild that can be very different.
Builds I have considered:
Slayer (bounty hunter) - either full or multiclassed probably after level 10
Investigator - full of multiclassed (hits the skills but may not the combat maneuvers)
Unchained rogue ?
What else? I feel like I’m missing some great potential builds. I’m fine with multiclass builds as long as the synergy is there and as long as the flavor of being a very smart skill focused front liner is still there. His role in the past was to close quickly with individual enemies especially casters and shut them down via dirty tricks like blinding.
still looking for players - anyone in the San Jose/South Bay area interested in joining in a run of Reign of Winter? I would prefer to run in person a few times a month for 3-5 players. Either at a local game store or other establishment or possibly at someone's home (has to be a pet-free environment however and I can't currently host the game as my nearly 5 year old would probably not sleep... )
I'm trying to run a Reign of Winter campaign in San Jose CA (or nearby) probably meeting every other Sundays (though time / place could be adjusted to accommodate new players - but we're a group of working parents so time isn't entirely flexible - in the past we've played Sunday evenings at a game store in Santa Clara with all of the players chipping in to cover the cost of the private gaming space there.
I'm a long time gamer (and 4 star PFS GM) - been playing since 1st edition (but didn't play much during 3rd ed days) - these days I prefer GMing to playing most of the time. The other player in thie campaign is also an experienced role player, though this is his first time playing Pathfinder. Looking to add 2-4 new players as we had one player leave due to a change in his job and a father & son leave to run another campaign. We are just finishing book 1 so still early in the AP and can easily add new players. For the first session or two we would have you run existing NPCs to see if you like the campaign and group - and then you can choose whether to continue running those characters or make new ones as we begin book 2.
(running the game not as PFS but if you are a PFS player I can give you chronicle sheets as we complete future sanctioned sections to apply to a society character)
not specifically what you are looking for but the first power of the Spirit Totem line of rage powers adds an attack - but note that this attack isn't by the barbarian but by the spirits that rage around the barbarian (so especially at low levels it is really nice and even at higher levels a force attack can be handy - especially one that happens as an extra attack even if you aren't taking a full attack - i.e. you can rage, move, attack normally and have your spirits attack). One of my favorite rage powers both for the mechanical fun and for the usefulness especially at lower levels (and the flavor is very very strong). Works exceptionally well if you are either multiclassing into some Occult classes or playing in a party with occult classes and in a game with a spirits/ghosts theme.
other rage powers exist that give you a natural attack (like a bite) which can effective add an attack (as a secondary attack if using weapons)
A small little doll with a child's body but an old woman's face - mechanically a guardian doll from Irrisen - but then layer on witch levels if you want to just ruin your player's day - a little, tiny, animated doll that hexes the party, curses them, turns invisible or teleports and chases them thru the dungeon... add in hints that the doll is powered by the soul of an actual innocent (who may or may not also have the class levels that the doll has if the party manages to defeat the doll and save the soul...
Or do this but then tell the players how not every mirror is showing the same things (and why have any physical entrance - just have a teleport trap deposit the players in a room with mirrors on all of the surfaces and it appears that they are standing in an infinite plane. But then as they get their heads around this idea mention that some reflections aren’t the same... note perhaps as well the odd lack of shadows (perhaps caused by light sources reflecting so many ways.... or was that a shadow in some of the reflections but not in others...
(And then use the level appropriate shadows/incorporeal/extraplanar threats of your choice. And either have curses triggered when mirrors are destroyed or other effects. Personally I would probably look at Linnorm Death curses for inspiration (via both the creature and the Barbarian rage powers). Perhaps one or more of mirrors are living creatures. Or intelligent magic items or a planar gate...
(And of course look at the spell Irriseni Mirror Sight if you want the bad guy to talk to the players thru the mirror - technically it doesn’t allow for speech but I would probably allow it for effect)
indeed running this module is one big reason I'm running Reign of Winter currently - looking forward to it - even having given the players a small minor forshadowing I think the full impact will be pretty interesting - and there is a LOT of fun to be had. And we will see how easy or hard it ends up being - but I'm pretty sure the end moments will be extremely epic.
William Werminster wrote:
In play I usually resolve that via a knowledge check - if the PCs (I'm usually willing to let other players who have acted make the knowledge checks and assume they have communicated to the other players - unless the specifics of the encounter don't allow for that.
i.e. if the PCs are aware that plants can't be mind controlled then I allow them to not cast those spells - however if they aren't aware of that casting it and determining that the spell fails to effect the creature is part of the game I think - and usually how the players (in game) learn what works or that the strange creature is something other than they expected etc.
(i.e. a plant not a humanoid, or an undead etc)
re initiative - I think the flat-footed rule is pretty important - if you haven't yet acted in the initiative order that it reflects how well you have reacted to the looming combat (even if you were aware that combat was about to happen) - it makes some class features (uncanny dodge) valuable - and it gives everyone a special window of opportunity to act.
Rogues - get a chance for sneak attacks (potentially two if they act quickly and get a surprise round and then act before their target that didn't act in the surprise round can act in the first round)
Everyone - a chance to move around the battlefield without provoking AoO's (in most cases - though this is when an enemy with uncanny dodge etc comes into play), to try combat maneuvers without provoking (if they act first) or to cast even if adjacent without provoking etc.
(which at all levels can open up some key tactics that many players don't always use - i.e. combat maneuvers even if untrained with them - so disarm that enemy before they even get a chance to attack you with it - or grapple the caster etc)
I usually further impose that players can't make things like knowledge checks until it is their turn (and thus until they are no longer flatfooted) - makes surprise and the initiative order more important.
(and yes this then rewards PCs who focus on initiative with great options in combat situations much of the time)