Rule you never see used though it is RAW


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Rycaut wrote:

Only if the attacker hits and deals damage (so a caster protected by mirror images, blur/blink/displacement, DR etc might still attempt such a foolhardy activity.

But more broadly I rarely see PCs using readied actions to disrupt spellcasting (In part because GMs rarely use it in reverse)

Really? Most of my characters capable of using magic devices keep a wand of counterspell magic missile or other disruptive ranged shenanigans handy. When the BBEG caster is likely higher level than I am, often my best action is making sure theirs is wasted/suboptimal.


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Athaleon wrote:
A cast time of 1 Round (e.g. Summon Monster, Enlarge Person) is not a full round action, it takes until the start of your next turn.

My dm refused to acknowledge this and I have no idea why.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I like to use readied fireballs and the like to disrupt spellcasting, unless the enemy has proven resistant or evasive. No attack roll, just save to reduce your concentration DC.

Silver Crusade

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Rycaut wrote:

one rule I use at my tables (which I think is actually RAW) is that dead bodies on the battlefield create difficult terrain (I generally do this for anything that is larger than the PCs - though technically I believe any dead body sized medium or larger by RAW does create difficult terrain)

(of course this is only monsters that leave bodies behind - so no summoned or incorporeal etc)

In play this is generally fairly easy to adjudicate - either leaving miniatures on the playmat or using a flat token to indicate the squares that have bodies - it does slow down combat slightly and creates some tactical options - and it gives some further incentives for flight or abilities to bypass difficult terrain - and it doesn't strain credibility - a dead dragon or ogre should leave a big obstacle that has to be gotten around (or which can be used for cover)

PRD wrote:
Opponent: You can't move through a square occupied by an opponent unless the opponent is helpless. You can move through a square occupied by a helpless opponent without penalty. Some creatures, particularly very large ones, may present an obstacle even when helpless. In such cases, each square you move through counts as 2 squares.

PRD link


Claxon wrote:
Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan wrote:
Matthew Downie wrote:
BenS wrote:

Can someone tell me if both of these scenarios are correct or just the 2nd example:

Battle A: Enemy archer [higher initiative] strikes my spell caster w/ an arrow before I complete my Magic Missile spell [standard action]; I need to make a Concentration check so as not to lose the spell, right?

Battle B: Enemy archer [higher initiative] strikes my spell caster w/ an arrow before I complete my Sleep spell [1 round casting]; I need to make a Concentration check so as not to lose the spell, right?

The difference is, with the Magic Missile they can only interrupt you if they use a readied action to shoot you during spell casting.

With the Sleep spell, they could make an ordinary full-round archery attack during their turn, after you start casting the spell, and still interrupt your concentration.

Although a melee combatant could take 2 swings to stop you. One with their readied action, and one with an AOO.

And if it had a one round casting time instead they could get an AoO, a readied action, and a full attack action.

For example, they go just before the caster ready an action to interrupt spell casting. Caster begins casting, triggers readied action, triggers AoO, turn continues back around to melee which then takes a full attack action on the caster. The chances of successfully making all those checks is real real low. Like it should be.

Thanks for all the clarifications; I was actually doing it wrong as far as standard action spells go...the rest I think I've got down now, including AoO (and casting defensively), readied actions, etc. I definitely need to start paying better attention to which spells take a round to cast, though.


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Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan wrote:
Matthew Downie wrote:
BenS wrote:

Can someone tell me if both of these scenarios are correct or just the 2nd example:

Battle A: Enemy archer [higher initiative] strikes my spell caster w/ an arrow before I complete my Magic Missile spell [standard action]; I need to make a Concentration check so as not to lose the spell, right?

Battle B: Enemy archer [higher initiative] strikes my spell caster w/ an arrow before I complete my Sleep spell [1 round casting]; I need to make a Concentration check so as not to lose the spell, right?

The difference is, with the Magic Missile they can only interrupt you if they use a readied action to shoot you during spell casting.

With the Sleep spell, they could make an ordinary full-round archery attack during their turn, after you start casting the spell, and still interrupt your concentration.

Although a melee combatant could take 2 swings to stop you. One with their readied action, and one with an AOO.

1) I thought you couldn't make an aoo and a readied action against the same action.

2) casting doesn't promote if you fail the concentration check. Casting defensively prevented the aoo period, you have to concentrate to see if you lose the spell or not.

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

SorrySleeping wrote:
Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan wrote:
Matthew Downie wrote:
BenS wrote:

Can someone tell me if both of these scenarios are correct or just the 2nd example:

Battle A: Enemy archer [higher initiative] strikes my spell caster w/ an arrow before I complete my Magic Missile spell [standard action]; I need to make a Concentration check so as not to lose the spell, right?

Battle B: Enemy archer [higher initiative] strikes my spell caster w/ an arrow before I complete my Sleep spell [1 round casting]; I need to make a Concentration check so as not to lose the spell, right?

The difference is, with the Magic Missile they can only interrupt you if they use a readied action to shoot you during spell casting.

With the Sleep spell, they could make an ordinary full-round archery attack during their turn, after you start casting the spell, and still interrupt your concentration.

Although a melee combatant could take 2 swings to stop you. One with their readied action, and one with an AOO.

1) I thought you couldn't make an aoo and a readied action against the same action.

2) casting doesn't promote if you fail the concentration check. Casting defensively prevented the aoo period, you have to concentrate to see if you lose the spell or not.

1) Why couldn’t you?

2) Yes, but if you don’t cast defensively it does.


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DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
Bag of Holding wrote:
If a bag of holding is overloaded, or if sharp objects pierce it (from inside or outside), the bag immediately ruptures and is ruined, and all contents are lost forever.
Hands up how many people have thrown a bunch of swords, daggers, knives into a bag of Holding for later re-sale without consequence?

I always wrap them in cloth or something first.


graystone wrote:
Slim Jim wrote:
* The Ioun stones in that Oort Cloud orbiting your head have AC24, 10 hitpoints and 5 hardness. Any reasonably competent mid-level opponent could theoretically destroy most or all of them in a single full-attack.
That's why you give them to your ioun wyrd tattoo'd familiar to hold. ;)

I always have a western star to turn them invisible and some form of anti-detection magic. Mind blank bring ideal, but non-detection is a low level version


I may be using too much of yu-gi-oh's timing, but once you ready an action and do it (the trigger being someone running past you), the time available to make an AoO is gone. Your character is hard focused on the action.

That's my logic, and logic doesn't translate well into pathfinder.

Also, what speellcaster doesn't attempt to cast defensively? The dc is a lot easier than getting damaged.


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I see both players and GMs overlook (and sometimes argue against) the full-attack rules, which state: "You can see how the earlier attacks turn out before assigning the later ones."

This result in wasted opportunities as players useless sink additional damage into a target that was a corpse after the first hit, and "killer GMs" trying to do the same thing to drive an unconscious character below neg Con when their flanked monster would (unless specifically inclined) normally shift its remaining attacks to other PCs threatening it.


Core Rulebook, p. 186 wrote:
The “start full-round action” standard action lets you start undertaking a full-round action, which you can complete in the following round by using another standard action. You can’t use this action to start or complete a full attack, charge, run, or withdraw.

I've never seen this tactic being used.


I often forget that a character can do a partial charge if they are unable to do full round actions: (from d20pfsrd) "If you are able to take only a standard action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed) and you cannot draw a weapon unless you possess the Quick Draw feat. You can’t use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action on your turn."

I guess if the character has pounce or equivalent it'd let them do a full attack on a surprise round for example. Also nice with zombies, I guess.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

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Slim Jim wrote:
I see both players and GMs overlook (and sometimes argue against) the full-attack rules, which state: "You can see how the earlier attacks turn out before assigning the later ones."

That applies at my table unless you roll all the dice at once. I don't want players to roll first and then decide whether to continue attacking.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Pretty much. If you’ve rolled the attack, you’ve committed to it. If you want to have the option of changing your tactics, roll individually. (That's not to say you have to direct the follow on attacks to the same target, just that you can't cancel out of a full attack into a move after rolling all of them.)


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Chris Mortika wrote:
Slim Jim wrote:
I see both players and GMs overlook (and sometimes argue against) the full-attack rules, which state: "You can see how the earlier attacks turn out before assigning the later ones."
That applies at my table unless you roll all the dice at once. I don't want players to roll first and then decide whether to continue attacking.

An honor-system works fairly well on that; The play assigns an order to their attacks, red dice is the first attack, orange is the second and so forth. Then if they can just assign that roll to the next enemy when one goes down.

The only oddball situation is when the first hit kills the enemy and they have the option of using a move action instead of continuing to attack, with the power difference between the rest of the full round attack and a move action it is often so large that the obvious choice is to full attack as long as enemies are in range, and if they are not in range the obvious option is to move. If they decide the move instead of attack easy targets after rolling four ones, that is time for an out of game conversation about the type of game everyone at the table wants to play.

My point is if the first attack of a full attack kills the only enemy in range (or the only strong enemy in range), why not let them use a move action? Players that are rolling all their attacks together are just trying to speed up the game.

I've been at tables where players are pre-rolling their 6 attacks and damages during the initiative before them and are writing them down so that the whole table isn't waiting on them.

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

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Adjoint wrote:
Core Rulebook, p. 186 wrote:
The “start full-round action” standard action lets you start undertaking a full-round action, which you can complete in the following round by using another standard action. You can’t use this action to start or complete a full attack, charge, run, or withdraw.
I've never seen this tactic being used.

Right, because it uses your Standards for two consecutive rounds! Better to get it all done in 1 round.


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Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan wrote:
Adjoint wrote:
Core Rulebook, p. 186 wrote:
The “start full-round action” standard action lets you start undertaking a full-round action, which you can complete in the following round by using another standard action. You can’t use this action to start or complete a full attack, charge, run, or withdraw.
I've never seen this tactic being used.
Right, because it uses your Standards for two consecutive rounds! Better to get it all done in 1 round.

Depends, you do swap a standard action for a move action, but you can use a move in the middle, and sometimes the move action next turn can be worth more than the standard action this turn. Double move also swaps standard for move, and is used a lot more. And I've seen situations where it would be good to use this tactic, but the player didn't know it is possible.


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DM Livgin wrote:
Players that are rolling all their attacks together are just trying to speed up the game.

There's nothing wrong with rolling in advance so long as you've let your GM know the priority of your d20s and you're honest/consistent. E.g., your special big one is always first, the red one is always 2nd, etc, and that you intend to shift targets or move if the first attack drops the target.

The overkill problem is primarily a lower-level/inexperienced player/GM phenomena.


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Inner Sea Gods's Abadar Entry wrote:
Church law forbids clergy from attacking each other, regardless of political, national, or financial motivations, as warfare creates instability and chips away at the foundations of civilization.

Has anyone ever had a LG PC Cleric of Abadar fight a LE enemy cleric and use this? Even in the form of "the clerics can attack every opponent but their opposite"?

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Chris Mortika wrote:
Slim Jim wrote:
I see both players and GMs overlook (and sometimes argue against) the full-attack rules, which state: "You can see how the earlier attacks turn out before assigning the later ones."
That applies at my table unless you roll all the dice at once. I don't want players to roll first and then decide whether to continue attacking.

I don't care if they roll the attacks all at once, if the first attack knocks out or kills the foe they can have the next attack go to another valid target or they can change to a move action if they already made one attack in a round. It means that they have to decide to "turn on" things like Two-Weapon Fighting and Rapid-Shot at the start of their turn, but I prefer the time saving to semantics. Especially at high levels when I have gunslingers with rapid-shot, two-weapon fighting telling us that it's "Exactly Midday".


If the player is rolling all the dice at once, he should be designating attack order with different colored dice ("First attack is red, second attack is blue ..."). Then you resolve them one by one, so he can still fairly and easily switch targets after someone's down.


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A lot of people forget that you can take a 5 foot step between attacks. This can really help with some mobility issues if a melee character has reach.


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Speaking of color coded dice.

Anecdote: I had a player (for only a few games and you will know why for just a few games shortly) who used to roll 2 d20's 2 different colors at the same time and he would call one color in the air and ignore the other. Now that is some pretty strong superstitious stuff right their but whatever. It was when I caught him calling it after it hit the table that we had problems. Hmm I guess their isn't really a point to this story other then watch them old players they are a squirrely bunch.


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http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/coreRulebook/combat.html wrote:

Initiative

At the start of a battle, each combatant makes an initiative check. An initiative check is a Dexterity check. Each character applies his or her Dexterity modifier to the roll, as well as other modifiers from feats, spells, and other effects. Characters act in order, counting down from the highest result to the lowest. In every round that follows, the characters act in the same order (unless a character takes an action that results in his or her initiative changing; see Special Initiative Actions).

If two or more combatants have the same initiative check result, the combatants who are tied act in order of total initiative modifier (highest first). If there is still a tie, the tied characters should roll to determine which one of them goes before the other.

Flat-Footed: At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat-footed. You can't use your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) while flat-footed. Barbarians and rogues of high enough level have the uncanny dodge extraordinary ability, which means that they cannot be caught flat-footed. Characters with uncanny dodge retain their Dexterity bonus to their AC and can make attacks of opportunity before they have acted in the first round of combat. A flat-footed character can't make attacks of opportunity, unless he has the Combat Reflexes feat.

Inaction: Even if you can't take actions, you retain your initiative score for the duration of the encounter.

Our group is pretty good with initiative rules, including the RAW way to break tied initiative scores above, but we almost never use the RAW trigger for being flat-footed for not having acted yet as stated above.

I think this is just down to the way we play. Most of our combats takes place either in a generally hostile location where the party is already on-guard, and we don't have many monsters spring out of closets or trap doors in the ceiling that would surprise them, or when discussions with NPCs break down and everyone knows a fight's about to start, so they're ready (on both sides). I think the intent of the rule is "If you do not expecting a fight, then find yourself in one, you are flat-footed until you manage to react (take a turn)", but we rarely have that occur. When we do, we usually use the surprise round rules, which provide their own stipulation for being flat-footed as below, so the details given in the initiative section almost never arise to the point we forget they exist.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/coreRulebook/combat.html wrote:

Surprise

When a combat starts, if you are not aware of your opponents and they are aware of you, you're surprised.

Sometimes all the combatants on a side are aware of their opponents, sometimes none are, and sometimes only some of them are. Sometimes a few combatants on each side are aware and the other combatants on each side are unaware.

Determining awareness may call for Perception checks or other checks.

The Surprise Round: If some but not all of the combatants are aware of their opponents, a surprise round happens before regular rounds begin. In initiative order (highest to lowest), combatants who started the battle aware of their opponents each take a standard or move action during the surprise round. You can also take free actions during the surprise round. If no one or everyone is surprised, no surprise round occurs.

Unaware Combatants: Combatants who are unaware at the start of battle don't get to act in the surprise round. Unaware combatants are flat-footed because they have not acted yet, so they lose any Dexterity bonus to AC.


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Artificial 20 wrote:

Our group is pretty good with initiative rules, including the RAW way to break tied initiative scores above, but we almost never use the RAW trigger for being flat-footed due to not having acted yet as RAW above.

I think this is just down to the way we play. Most of our combats takes place either in a generally hostile location where the party is already on-guard, and we don't have many...

It can be quite important if you have rogues with good initiative, because then they can an easy sneak attack.


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Artificial 20 wrote:
I think the intent of the rule is "If you do not expecting a fight, then find yourself in one, you are flat-footed until you manage to react (take a turn)"

Pretty sure the intent is that if you're unaware of an opponent and your opponent is aware of you, your opponent gets a surprise round.

Otherwise you can just choose to say you're expecting a fight all the time and Stealth and Perception become irrelevant.


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Kelenius wrote:
Artificial 20 wrote:

Our group is pretty good with initiative rules, including the RAW way to break tied initiative scores above, but we almost never use the RAW trigger for being flat-footed due to not having acted yet as RAW above.

I think this is just down to the way we play. Most of our combats takes place either in a generally hostile location where the party is already on-guard, and we don't have many...

It can be quite important if you have rogues with good initiative, because then they can an easy sneak attack.

You're right :). We have a ninja and I play them, that's happened a few times so far. I edited my post to elaborate, what I meant to say was we typically have a surprise round when it comes up, and the line "Unaware combatants are flat-footed because they have not acted yet" guides what we do. By RAW its seems to apply to every encounter where you roll your initiative anew, but we hardly if ever use that (I could also violently break the initiative system while - by RAW - addressing this situation).


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Matthew Downie wrote:
Artificial 20 wrote:
I think the intent of the rule is "If you do not expecting a fight, then find yourself in one, you are flat-footed until you manage to react (take a turn)"

Pretty sure the intent is that if you're unaware of an opponent and your opponent is aware of you, your opponent gets a surprise round.

Otherwise you can just choose to say you're expecting a fight all the time and Stealth and Perception become irrelevant.

That's a fair point. I think it works best with agreement/adjudication in among the group. An example of us not using it is where the party is exploring a hostile environment (e.g. a dungeon). We came in expecting monsters, have already fought some monsters, and expect to fight more monsters. If we're moving along a hallway, and see a corner ahead, we are on-guard because there might be monsters around it. Suitably ready, we go around (or at least some of us do), and there's some skeletons or other monsters standing there, at least some of them staring our way.

In that instance, we weren't aware those exact opponents were standing in those exact locations, and they weren't aware we would come around the corner at that exact moment, but we run it that the party was alert and prepared, and most monsters exist in a state of perpetual hostility (unless it doesn't suit their nature/tactics/etc.), so both sides get treated as not flat-footed. If stealth/perception is used or one side does something ambush-like then a surprise round could kick things off.


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- Illegal targets/conditions makes the spell automatically fail.

Because everyone prefer to be reminded a pleasant "you can't do that, try another thing" instead of "MUAHAHAH that was ilegal YOU FAILEEEED"


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Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
William Werminster wrote:

- Illegal targets/conditions makes the spell automatically fail.

Because everyone prefer to be reminded a pleasant "you can't do that, try another thing" instead of "MUAHAHAH that was ilegal YOU FAILEEEED"

In play I usually resolve that via a knowledge check - if the PCs (I'm usually willing to let other players who have acted make the knowledge checks and assume they have communicated to the other players - unless the specifics of the encounter don't allow for that.

i.e. if the PCs are aware that plants can't be mind controlled then I allow them to not cast those spells - however if they aren't aware of that casting it and determining that the spell fails to effect the creature is part of the game I think - and usually how the players (in game) learn what works or that the strange creature is something other than they expected etc.

(i.e. a plant not a humanoid, or an undead etc)

---

re initiative - I think the flat-footed rule is pretty important - if you haven't yet acted in the initiative order that it reflects how well you have reacted to the looming combat (even if you were aware that combat was about to happen) - it makes some class features (uncanny dodge) valuable - and it gives everyone a special window of opportunity to act.

Rogues - get a chance for sneak attacks (potentially two if they act quickly and get a surprise round and then act before their target that didn't act in the surprise round can act in the first round)

Everyone - a chance to move around the battlefield without provoking AoO's (in most cases - though this is when an enemy with uncanny dodge etc comes into play), to try combat maneuvers without provoking (if they act first) or to cast even if adjacent without provoking etc.

(which at all levels can open up some key tactics that many players don't always use - i.e. combat maneuvers even if untrained with them - so disarm that enemy before they even get a chance to attack you with it - or grapple the caster etc)

I usually further impose that players can't make things like knowledge checks until it is their turn (and thus until they are no longer flatfooted) - makes surprise and the initiative order more important.

(and yes this then rewards PCs who focus on initiative with great options in combat situations much of the time)


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Aha, I have one - Ability Score Damage.

Ability Score Damage wrote:
For every 2 points of damage you take to a single ability, apply a –1 penalty to skills and statistics listed with the relevant ability.

Technically this means that, even when you have an even ability score (as many end up with), a single point of ability damage does nothing (there's no minimum penalty clause), 3 ability damage gives a -1 penalty and so on.

More technically, it applies a -1 penalty per 2 points of damage to your damage rolls affected by the ability score, regardless of what multiplier that ability score is operating with (e.g. the classic 1.5x strength mod).

Even more technically, try to map that "-1 penalty" to carrying capacity.

I generally see this all disregarded, and the character just treated as if their ability score as whatever the damage reduces to as a flat deduction.


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Artificial 20 wrote:

Aha, I have one - Ability Score Damage.

Ability Score Damage wrote:
For every 2 points of damage you take to a single ability, apply a –1 penalty to skills and statistics listed with the relevant ability.

Technically this means that, even when you have an even ability score (as many end up with), a single point of ability damage does nothing (there's no minimum penalty clause), 3 ability damage gives a -1 penalty and so on.

More technically, it applies a -1 penalty per 2 points of damage to your damage rolls affected by the ability score, regardless of what multiplier that ability score is operating with (e.g. the classic 1.5x strength mod).

Even more technically, try to map that "-1 penalty" to carrying capacity.

I generally see this all disregarded, and the character just treated as if their ability score as whatever the damage reduces to as a flat deduction.

The more technically is that it doesn't affect carrying capacity at all. Also you still qualify and can use all feats that use the stat since your actual value isn't changing.


Rycaut wrote:

re initiative - I think the flat-footed rule is pretty important - if you haven't yet acted in the initiative order that it reflects how well you have reacted to the looming combat (even if you were aware that combat was about to happen) - it makes some class features (uncanny dodge) valuable - and it gives everyone a special window of opportunity to act.

Rogues - get a chance for sneak attacks (potentially two if they act quickly and get a surprise round and then act before their target that didn't act in the surprise round can act in the first round)

Everyone - a chance to move around the battlefield without provoking AoO's (in most cases - though this is when an enemy with uncanny dodge etc comes into play), to try combat maneuvers without provoking (if they act first) or to cast even if adjacent without provoking etc.

(which at all levels can open up some key tactics that many players don't always use - i.e. combat maneuvers even if untrained with them - so disarm that enemy before they even get a chance to attack you with it - or grapple the caster etc)

I usually further impose that players can't make things like knowledge checks until it is their turn (and thus until they are no longer flatfooted) - makes surprise and the initiative order more important.

(and yes this then rewards PCs who focus on initiative with great options in combat situations much of the time)

I feel I clouded the nuance of what I was getting at originally with my replies. I'll try to explain it more openly.

There's a few broad categories of circumstances combat can begin under in our games:

  • Both sides are ready for a fight when combat starts: We bypass the standard rules because otherwise it can become silly, which I could go over if wanted (this typically happens when the party is exploring a hostile area, and confronts monsters we treat as existing in a state of perpetual hostility, e.g. mindless undead, or when discussion with NPCs break down, and both sides fully know things are about to turn violent).
  • Only one side is ready for a fight when combat begins: We go through the Surprise rules, which include their own stipulation for flat-footed.
  • Neither side is ready for combat when they encounter the other: This normally leads to discussion, as our parties aren't very trigger-happy, and either a fight doesn't occur at all, or by the time it does the 1st situation has arisen where discussion breaks down and everyone is ready.
  • Neither side is ready for combat when they encounter the other, with one side reacting with immediate hostility: Surprise rules as 2nd point.
  • Neither side is ready for combat when they encounter the other, yet, upon encountering each other, both react with immediate hostility: This is where the Flat-Footed rule specifically written under the Initiative section should kick in, but this is so uncommon we can forget it exists.

So we either don't have a fight, have one where each side is reasonably prepared and we don't feel a surprise round/flat-footed is appropriate, or we have something like an ambush and make use of the Surprise rules, including the "Unaware Combatants" part. What I was trying to say is we often have no reason to use - and forget about - the independent "Flat-Footed" part of the Initiative rules, mostly because of the way we play.

I don't wanna go on about why we waive it when we do unless people care.

Chess Pwn wrote:
Artificial 20 wrote:

Aha, I have one - Ability Score Damage.

Ability Score Damage wrote:
For every 2 points of damage you take to a single ability, apply a –1 penalty to skills and statistics listed with the relevant ability.

Technically this means that, even when you have an even ability score (as many end up with), a single point of ability damage does nothing (there's no minimum penalty clause), 3 ability damage gives a -1 penalty and so on.

More technically, it applies a -1 penalty per 2 points of damage to your damage rolls affected by the ability score, regardless of what multiplier that ability score is operating with (e.g. the classic 1.5x strength mod).

Even more technically, try to map that "-1 penalty" to carrying capacity.

I generally see this all disregarded, and the character just treated as if their ability score as whatever the damage reduces to as a flat deduction.

The more technically is that it doesn't affect carrying capacity at all. Also you still qualify and can use all feats that use the stat since your actual value isn't changing.

I hoped someone would joust with me on that technicality - you're right, since carrying capacity is not on the "skills and statistics listed" :D.

I know the part about feat qualification and play/see it played true to that. I more mean that rather than running a separate track for ability damage, I see scores just treated as temporarily lowered by that amount.

... I have no idea if it's a taboo here to combine my replies like this.


I don't prefer it because if I want to reply to the part about my comments it's harder because of all that stuff that's not applicable to my topic.


Chess Pwn wrote:
I don't prefer it because if I want to reply to the part about my comments it's harder because of all that stuff that's not applicable to my topic.

Aah, gotcha. I've seen places that are more "Don't do a bunch of posts in a row" and some more like this.

By the by, you caused me to notice another rule I'd overlooked.

Combat Maneuver Defense wrote:

Miscellaneous Modifiers

A creature can also add any circumstance, deflection, dodge, insight, luck, morale, profane, and sacred bonuses to AC to its CMD. Any penalties to a creature’s AC also apply to its CMD. A flat-footed creature does not add its Dexterity bonus to its CMD.

So our party just got a +1 to CMD. Thanks Pwn :D.


You're welcome, but yeah, that rule is important to have PCs with any hope of resisting a maneuver at higher levels


Did somebody mention the fact that if you provoke at trying a combat maneuver and take damage, that said damage is applied as a penalty to your maneuver check?


Kaouse wrote:
Did somebody mention the fact that if you provoke at trying a combat maneuver and take damage, that said damage is applied as a penalty to your maneuver check?

To go along with this, you only provoke from the target of the maneuver and not everyone around.


Anyone can identify the powers of a potion through taste with a Perception check of DC 15 + CL. Not overly safe but even a commoner can do it.

I can actually see this getting into some strange places per RAW. A potion only contains one "dose" by default; you can't share the effects of a Cure Light Wounds around on the spot (fair house rule though). Since "taste" is not a defined quantity, you can reasonably say that drinking less than the amount required to trigger an effect means you don't, and reduce the risk.

Still sucks if it's actually a poison though, so not completely foolproof.


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Quote:
Light Generation: Fully 30% of magic weapons shed light equivalent to a light spell. These glowing weapons are quite obviously magical. Such a weapon can’t be concealed when drawn, nor can its light be shut off. Some of the specific weapons detailed below always or never glow, as defined in their descriptions.

I've read a lot of modules, but I can't recall any instances of magic weapons found in any of them glowing.

(Why are magic weapons the only magic items that glow anyways? Other than "The Hobbit/LotR did it, so D&D had it and PF carried it over".)


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something i rarely seen even though it's very useful (especially vs enemies with greater reach) - when you ready an action, you can also add a 5 ft step along with it(as long as you didn't move as per 5 ft rules).

seen many ready to hit a charging large creature (ogres etc) only for them to stop 10 ft away and strike out of reach.

can also be ready to hit and then take 5 ft move away. so you get to hit a same reach charging enemy and then move diagonally back & sideways out of reach AND charge path.


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Underwater Combat wrote:
Attacks from Land: (...) A completely submerged creature has total cover against opponents on land unless those opponents have freedom of movement effects. Magical effects are unaffected except for those that require attack rolls (which are treated like any other effects) and fire effects.

So spearfishing is illegal.


WhiteMagus2000 wrote:

That coins are actually pretty damn heavy. 50 coins per pound, so 2000gp to enchant your sword weighs 40 lbs! IRL 40lbs of gold = $816,640. I did have one GM that would occasionally audit weights on all that characters, chart days of food remaining, and make us find water every day or two.

By the way, IRL its 291.667 penny weights (one copper) per pound, so pathfinder coins are HUGE, like 1/3 of an once.

I have a few old silver coins.

They are huge compared to most u.S. coins.


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Which is why it was common to file the edges of coins and pocket the shaved metal. It stopped when Isaac Newton added the now standard ridge to coins. That and him personally tracking down counterfeiters is the real reason he was knighted, the whole "revolutionizing physics" just got him appointed to the mint so he was in a position to do it (no seriously, that is historical fact).


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Here's one that I've never seen come up, and I didn't know existed until I read through the PRD:

Core Rulebook p424 wrote:


A character with at least 5 ranks in Knowledge (geography) or Knowledge (local) pertaining to the area being traveled through gains a +2 bonus on this check. [Survival check to avoid getting lost].


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Which seems to forget there is only one Knowledge (Local) because WotC condensed it down to a single skill in the 3.0>3.5 transition but didn't rename it. Unless it means Geography in wilderness, local in urban but that's a got its own issues (the wording is non-standard and it means you use survival to avoid getting lost in a city even though all "urban" archtypes ditch that skill.).


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Rycaut wrote:
My nomination is a rule that until earlier today I didn’t know was rules as written---

Maneuvering in the air.


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The one I didn't know of was that for most of the beneficial touch spells, the upper limit is 6 targets affected.

"Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets. You can touch up to 6 willing targets as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell."


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You can use a flat DC 20 Sense Motive check to "get a hunch" if someone is "trustworthy".

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