Makarion's page

Sanityfaerie wrote:

Perhaps they lean into the "parent or" meaning of guardian? We get a feat that gives us a minion small child?

Brilliant insight! I think you've cracked the code. The guardian is the reverse Summoner class we've been pining for. Instead of a caster with a powerful combat pet, it's a warrior with a vulnerable ally that it has to use its superior defensive abilities to protect. The minion is the source of its nigh-supernatural protective leaps, and otherwise buffs the guardian and their allies' morale. The guardian's Ward doesn't have to be a literal child but may be any endearingly cute and harmless creature.

Can we get a reverse Guardian dedication in that case, where anyone who is already Small can train to become Smol?

I am contemplating a champion of Irori, and I am feeling that Soulforger would be a pretty nice implementation of the "divine ki" idea that monks have, within this context. But could it even be applied to fists?

Hilarity re: throwing fists with Bounding Weapon aside, it seems you cannot apply soulforging to handwraps. Do people see solutions?

Makarion wrote:

Captain Morgan wrote:

There's got to be a good which grants Elemental Form, which means oracles and clerics are on the menu.

The main problem with Elemental Form is that it will only arrive when the campaign is likely already half over, if not worse. I do not like aiming for end game only, and instead prefer having my theme online much, much earlier, if in reduced form.

Yeah, but as you already pointed out Tempest Oracle still captures that to a less extent since they have an uncontrollable storm raging around them most of the day. It's not the full fantasy, but I don't think anyone will come closer than what's already been suggested because the full fantasy is simply not compatible with low levels.

That said, you won't want divine casting as well you might as well go elemental barbarian or air kinecist. Air kinecist actually has a way to turn into lightning at level 4, but only briefly.

"For an instant, you transform yourself into a being of pure lightning and fly forward, shocking anyone in your way. You propel yourself forward in a 30-foot line. You can move through creatures during this movement, and this movement doesn't trigger reactions that are triggered by movement. Each creature you move through takes 2d12 electricity damage with a basic Reflex save against your class DC. You return to your normal form in the final square of the line. If you're in the air, you fall unless you have a fly Speed."

Oh, I would be fine with divine magic, in all likelyhood. I might have a minor preference for primal, but if the list has enough options to add spells to it, one way or another, conceptually I tend to be happy with divine.

I'll give oracle another look. :)

There's got to be a good which grants Elemental Form, which means oracles and clerics are on the menu.

The main problem with Elemental Form is that it will only arrive when the campaign is likely already half over, if not worse. I do not like aiming for end game only, and instead prefer having my theme online much, much earlier, if in reduced form.

Makarion wrote:

Druid only gets elemental wildshape at level 10, and air elemental really doesn't do enough. I am fine with them accepting intermediate natural shapes to an extend, but I have a strong dislike of forms that disrupt my immersion - such as dinosaurs. So it's probably from mundane animals and a select few monsters such as unicorns or owlbears into a barely functional elemental shape. That doesn't sound promising.

You can try a different approach. Get a Sylph heritage to explain that you affinity to the storm comes from it. Start with a Storm Order and focus on usage of air, water and electricity spells and heritage feats representing how your control over magic related to storm is growing over time. When you get access to Elemental Form spell (level 9) you are now able to even become the one with the storm but only sometimes in a day, get Order Explorer to get Wild Shape but only use it after you take Elemental Shape representing that now you are one with the storm!

You can make this concept with Elemental Sorcerer too but the Form effectiveness is limited to your spell slots so I don't recommend.

The main problem of this build is that it only works up to level 14. If you will play to higher levels it will become weaker more and more after this and you will forced to abandon the form and focus only in your spells and heritage feats.

Makarion wrote:

Flavour-wise, Oracle is awesome, and right up my alley. I loved them in PF1, and the new curse mechanic looks the be a continuation of what they used to be. I did give a glance at the Tempest, but I see nothing that that really works with the transformation element, even if they carry the storm in their soul.

Sorcerer seems to mostly be an Oracle with less theme

...

I have been mulling over an aasimar with the blood of Gwynharwyf (https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Gwynharwyf) in their veins, and lean into the whirlwind/storm approach that way. That might sync well with the divine angle, although the sylph works better with primal or arcane.

I think you are absolutely going to need to do some heavy re-flavoring of existing mechanics to do what you want. Which means working with your GM a significant amount.

Honestly, my recommendation is to use (start with) the Animal Form spell, and ask your GM if you can swap out the damage type, with no other mechanical differences, only cosmetic flavor. Let the actual Elemental Form that will unlock much later be a real milestone apotheosis your PC is working toward, not a free handout you start with.

Trying to get too fancy with your homebrew can lead to a lot of headaches, so IMO the rather raw Druid with slightly custom Form spells is what I recommend.

As you get access to more Form spells, you can re-flavor them to taste, but you are honestly going to have a hard time otherwise satisfying that hyper specific taste.

I am starting to think that, in a situation like that, it may be easier to just go elemental instinct barbarian, rather than trying to reflavour druid or the like. But I am still eager to learn of options.

Hello!

I group I am in is going to start a new campaign soon, and I'd love to play a character build on some visuals I have in mind, but can't seem to turn into actually functional mechanics. Please see whether it's salvageable!

* Wiry, rugged and nature-centered. Preferably no heavy or metal armour.
* Strong affinity with storms.
* I want them to be able to take on a storm/whirlwind shape and fight in that shape.

A summoner with *Meld into Eidolon* has the thematics baked in, but I don't think it actually works very well, even if it has the benefit that you can ditch both dex and strength.

Druid only gets elemental wildshape at level 10, and air elemental really doesn't do enough. I am fine with them accepting intermediate natural shapes to an extend, but I have a strong dislike of forms that disrupt my immersion - such as dinosaurs. So it's probably from mundane animals and a select few monsters such as unicorns or owlbears into a barely functional elemental shape. That doesn't sound promising.

Is there much that can be done with Soul Forger at lower levels? I would need to layer that on top of a ranger, barbarian or a similar class, but that might have potential.

Flavour-wise, Oracle is awesome, and right up my alley. I loved them in PF1, and the new curse mechanic looks the be a continuation of what they used to be. I did give a glance at the Tempest, but I see nothing that that really works with the transformation element, even if they carry the storm in their soul.

Sorcerer seems to mostly be an Oracle with less theme for the purposes of this character concept. They are also more fragile, which would complicate matters for someone who at least now and then wants to mix it up.

Would you have any suggestions, please?

Beastbrood is an Ancestry feat you can take at level 1, and leads to more Ancestry feat options later. It's in the Ancestry Guide, or just check the Archives of Nethys.

Thank you. I was using the browser version of Pathbuilder, and it did not show there.

Hello!

I am in the process of converting a PF1 character over to PF2, but with the change to remastered rules, I am in a bit of a quandary. How does one make a Rashasha-spawn (beastbrood) these days? Nephilim seems obvious, but that is where it stops, since my character had no natural weapons worth mentioning (although she had some fur, a tail and minor horns). There was a Beastbrood option before the remaster, but it's gone now, and I'm at a bit of a loss.

Hello!

After some time away from PF, I am getting back in the swing of things, and PF2 looks lovely so far; I am quite happy with what I see. Having said that, I'd like to find a local game if possible, but it's hard to guess at where to start. Is there a database with active venture captains and where they run their games, online or (preferably) in person? I am located in Mansfield OH, in the USA, in case that helps. That's over basically the biggest little city between Cleveland and Columbus, over an hour to either. Local would be nice. :)

Thank you,

Pat

PS. I am running two current campaigns (with a third ran by one of my players), and I'm slowly convincing my group that we may want to migrate to PF2 once each current campaign runs its course. But that is probably not relevant to PFS!

If you are going life shaman, then you should add the protector archetype to your familiar, since life spirit familiar has fast healing 1.

Not a bad idea, although that is a little odd, since it's an osprey!

I ended up going shaman (witch doctor). The archery will be for show only, but I am ok with that. Nature Fang druid did look good, but in the end, I felt that a prepared spellcaster healer needed channeling, since there is zero PC item crafting and I expect wands to be not automatically available.

You mentioned Boon Companion. Why? A druid's animal companion is fully leveled without it. Are you planning to multiclass?

If I go with the Eagle or Feather domain, I gain domain spells - and a bird companion at druid level -3.

Both Hunter and Inquisitor wouldn't have the spellcasting I want as the only caster in the group. The paladin's too restricted to really compensate for having an inquisitor instead of a 9-level caster.

Mind, I love Inquisitors (having played two of them for a good while), but they cannot carry the spellcasting burden, especially where it comes to things like Dispel Magic.

Having said that: the Totem Guide archetype looks pretty good; I had not been aware of it. Thank you!

I have a character that is an Elf. He already exists in-story, but never had been given a character sheet, and I'll be playing him soon!

So, here's the given elements.

* Must be an Elf with a falcon or hawk (or possibly eagle) companion
* Must be proficient in longbow and light armour at least
* Fairly decent knowledge skills for his low level
* Must know (at least basic) healing spells
* 25 point build, so suboptimal race choices are no great concern. We don't really min/max.
* One archetype per class only.

Any Elf obviously can be proficient with a bow, although Eglariel's a bit of a voluntary outcast of Elven society. He also thinks of his avian companion as an intermediary with the spiritual forces that grant him his magic. It'll be tempting to give it some sort of celestial template later, or even have it become a sun falcon.

My first though was druid, with the Feathers subdomain. The Eagle domain gets a familiar instead of a companion - saves a feat for Boon Companion - but that makes it a lot harder for it to become a battle option, I think. Granted, I've never tried to have a familiar fight. Archetype-wise, I like Season Sage (I don't see wild shape as being in-character). I'd love Feyspeaker - except that it's fey! Eglariel's a spiritual type, not someone to lean on fickle and mostly unknowable aliens. Feyspeaker makes the bow also a mostly pointless thing beyond the very low levels, but I can live with that. I love archery, but he's primarily a caster.

Oracle has a lot of good flair, although the more Elrond-leaning thematics might not gel so well with a high charisma. Cleric is too organised - he believes in finding your own spiritual path, even if you may well end up with the same patron as someone who does that through a church.

What is there in shaman that might work? I've never really looked into them. Wizard has issues with the healing side of things, and since it looks like Eglathiel will be the only real caster of the group (otherwise paladin, monk and vigilante), I want access to condition-removal without UMD required. Paladin mercies can help, I am sure, but I'd rather make sure I can cover the "support" role - which I enjoy, truth be told.

Any opinions and/or suggestions for me to look at? Thank you all in advance.

The only animal that does qualify as both is a Corgi. It's explicitly allowed as a familiar, and as a size small canine it qualifies for an animal companion as well. Yeah but you are well into GM special creation area....

Apologies for the thread necromancy. I just was working through the same question for a question.

It's worth noting that druids with the Eagle domain can get a Hawk familiar, whereas druids with the Feather subdomain can get a Hawk (or any other bird) animal companion.

It looks like the guide was deleted, or at least that the link in the original post is no longer valid.

Have the unicorn count as a "bond -2 levels" or the like? Sure, you may need to use a horse for level 5-6, but at level 7, the unicorn is then available, and it scales from there on out.

My alternative would be to find a really big boost to Acrobatics. I'm looking to make use of the *Up Close and Personal* Vigilante talent, but the character has a better charisma than dex - and is going to take a lot of ranks in perform (dance), anyway.

It occurs to me that we may be asking the wrong question. What we *should* be asking is how to make the Blue Raja. One of these days, that Fork specialisation is going to pay off, I tell you!

Illusionist? As long as everyone else believes it... A heavens oracle with Awesome Display can go a long way, I think.

If you're looking at wildshape, anyway, there's always the Flame Blade Dervish Combat feat. The heal/fire theme also lines up with Sarenrae, and a sun-soaked fox druid sounds pretty interesting!

VMC Bard will give you versatile performance and even allows you to retrain all the skill ranks in those two skills for free. VMC Bard is probably one of the best.

Good call! We don't use VMC, so it had not occurred to me to look at it, but it sure exists.

Edit: it would become available at level 11, which is very late for an important aspect of the character (tumbling). still, I am glad I looked it up to refresh myself on it, so thank you.

Makarion wrote:

Does anyone know of ways to gain versatile performance, other than through Bard, Deific Obedience (Shelyn) and the Warrior Poet archetype of Samurai?

Skald, of course.

Any Samurai or Cavalier can take the Order of the Songbird, not just the Warrior Poet.

Also two prestige classes give versatile performance with limited choices.
Sphere Singer and Ashavic Dancer.

Thank you! Dance is definitely on the agenda, but spellcasting is not, so those prestige classes aren't viable in this case, alas. I'll have to think about other samurai and cavaliers, and whether the dip is worth it versus, say, Skill Focus to boost acrobatics.

Amazing, how 6 ranks per level (vigilante) can feel restrictive.

Does anyone know of ways to gain versatile performance, other than through Bard, Deific Obedience (Shelyn) and the Warrior Poet archetype of Samurai?

Have you considered Inquisitor, if you want to go combat-focused? They can even get a domain, if you are so inclined. If channeling is not a big deal to you, and you want to do physical damage, it seems a little odd to insist upon a 9 level caster at the cost of all the rest you struggle to accomplish as stated goals.

Sadly, it's a baby wyvern. So it's size small while I am size medium. I don't think I can ride it.

Luckily, it can ride you. I hope you like saddles!

There's a Magus archetype, called the Kapenia Dancer that can use the Bladed Scarf as a one-handed weapon, and can also use Arcana to add reach. The aforementioned archetype also stacks with Bladebound, in case you want a sentient Bladed Scarf.

I did look at that! But they would likely struggle with the stats even more, since they need both dex and int and get neither from being (this) tiefling. On the other hand, Int to AC would sure help a lot.

My husband has, to my surprise and delight, decided to run a campaign using PF1, and is adopting the Golarion pantheon but otherwise a small homebrew setting (planning to expand it over time).

I have decided that I want a female kython-born tiefling who is ashamed of her Zon-Kuthon links. Not that she is actually part of the faith, but she feels that she embodies too much of his essence to be comfortable. She expresses herself through dance, and I plan for her to be proficient with bladed scarfs. Yes, the echoes of chains > scarfs is entirely on purpose, but that is something she'll have to work out over time.

Currently, I am thinking Vigilante, using the whole disguise theme as a vehicle for her coming to grasp with "inner nature" versus heritage and what you show to others. The bladed scarves being very feat-intensive also works here, since vigilante is pretty forgiving when it comes to picking up abilities.

So, questions...

* A non-dex race is going to hurt, and AC is going to be a real problem. She could easily have ties with a monastery, but Wis isn't likely to be her strong suit, and Scaled Fist is a terrible fit, backstory-wise. Just start with Dex 15 anyway and do what I can (even though the front line's going to be a scary place), or is there a way to weaponize Cha a little better? At least we're using a 25-point build, and Lethal Grace makes a finesse build doable.
As an aside, Con-to-AC would be awesome for (former) ZK ties, but the closest I can find is the racial option to swap some resistances for 1 point of natural armour. And I am not sure I want to saddle her with that, since she already has enough problems accepting who she is.

* Are there ways to get reach on the scarves? I think I would like to dip in trip maneuvers. Probably less easy to implement than feint, but feint hurts on a 3/4 BAB build. I'd much rather work with AoOs.

* A Shelyn affiliation is kind of obvious, but I kind of like the Irori self-improvement angle, too, especially *mental*. She's got a lot of repair work to do and won't be preachy enough to try and use performing as a way of prositelyzing, which seems more or less inherent to the faith of Shelyn (bless their soul).

* Is there a non-terrible way to mix unarmed martial arts with dancing / bladed scarfs? Most trained dancers have very good muscle tone and I can totally see kickboxing mixing well, but the rules angle worries me.

For #1, I would suggest installing Baldur's Gate again and inviting Boo into your party. He comes with an endearingly stupid ranger, although we know, of course, who really is in charge.

Ranger or Slayer taking the Weapon & Shield style is very viable. Improved Shield Bash at level 2, Shield Master at 6, both skipping prerequisites. Medium armour and shield is solid enough, and shield bash, combined with bull rush if you want, is totally viable close quarters battlefield control. Add in Enlarge Person for reach, if you are so inclined, from UMD / a wand or from a party member, and it's not bad at all. You might even be able to swing Combat Patrol, although it gets feat intensive at that point.

Obviously, aim for a mithril breastplate and darkwood or mithril shields, to get that ACP down.

Alternatively, a Lore Warden fighter with a polearm and combat reflexes can be a solid frontliner, too. Add trip to taste and go to town.

Calistria. Most of them are problably of a NPC class (adepts, commoners, experts, possibly aristocrats for the more luxurious ones). From the PC classes, the most fitting are cleric, bard and rogue. There is also a prestige class Enchanting Courtesan.

Worth pointing out that, according to the lore, it's specifically the Chaotic Good branch of the church of Calistria that supports the temple prostitutes (or is supported by them, of course).

I really don't like rolling something like 1d8+40 for damage in PF1, it makes the roll pointless. So, I guess I'm in favor of rolling more dice as a better alternative. I can see how it may become tedious, though. In that case, I'd just roll over some app, or roll20.

That's interesting. To me, the fact that the roll is pointless (which I agree on, by and large), is an *advantage*. The narrative of the action should lean more heavily on the understanding between player and storyteller, rather than the luck of the dice. As a result, I love having options on how to affect a tactical / social situation, but also reliability in *how* to affect them, once I make a decision. Which, in turn, makes the current chances of succeeding at skills, landing attacks or pierce saving throws in PF2 fairly disappointing.

So... Survey question; Attack of Opportunity, question 8, Option 1:

Quote:

I would like it better if tank-type characters got Attack of Opportunity automatically (such as paladins and barbarians)

Barbarians are tank like? Are you kidding?

Bad enough that this concept (tank) is in your design thinking at all, but that a class so squishy, with limited armor and even AC penalties is at all tank-like is patently absurd.

And no, the 9th level DR doesn't matter. It isn't even a blip compared to enemy damage numbers at that level (let alone higher).

Haven't you heard? There's only three allowed party roles: bruiser, mage and healer. Anything else is dangerously subversive and not enough akin to the computer games our target audience supposedly love over actual roleplay.

Love it or loathe it, but PF2 has set out it's stall to see whether they can do D&D 4th edition better than WotC.

True - but I confess that I am much less concerned about what's easy for game developers and rather more interested in a game that's actually fun to play and lets me build the character concepts I want.

I'm with you. By and large, that's why I prefer systems that are class- and level-less. Balance becomes a discussion between player and storyteller, so it's mostly unsuitable for the typical players attracted to D&D style adventures, especially in organised play, but it's far more engaging for people who want to represent the mental image they have of their characters, especially (in most level-less systems) with regard to non-combat focused PCs.

Since Paizo's traditional customer base seem to appreciate character build flexibility, PF has always had an open door policy towards muticlassing, so this particular itch could be scratched. Since PF2 is, in many ways, going back to basics by necessity, it will feel rigid for a good long while: players have become used to "flexibility creep" from all the splat books that PF1 has published, and those won't be here for a while. But for PF2 to be a success, it needs to force us to wait for the new splat to arrive, so for the time being, we'll do with a more rigid, less flexible system. C'est la vie.

My gosh. That rules survey took forever. Great questions though.

Not sure I agree. Many of the questions came down to asking me whether I preferred cats to be green or purple, frankly. That is, when they weren't leading, of course. I'm not sure who composed the survey, but they need remedial training.

This comes mostly from having run a lot of Exalted, but I've always used "Circle" for spells. As in, fireball is a third-circle spell; wish is a ninth-circle spell.

Sounds nicely mystical.

Now I need to dig up my Earthdawn books.

Makarion wrote:

How about this one for a radical idea? Have using consumables cost xp! Not to craft them, mind you, but to consume. I bet that solves the problem right away, especially if you scale the cost with character level.

Granted, that may unduly punish frontliners, so perhaps some finagling needs to take place, but moving the cost away from gold, I feel, is the crux here..

Why do we have a zillion different ideas for punishing players and their characters for using the items the GM makes available? Why are the players bad if they intelligently optimize their resources?

I GM'd through the making-items-costs-xp days of D&D3.X, and that was one of the first rules we houseruled away, because of the incredibly detrimental effect it had on player morale and party harmony. I can only imagine that charging xp to use magic items would be significantly worse in terms of fueling inter-party resentment and meta-gaming.

There are a bunch of folks posting detailed breakdowns of the badly balanced incentives. But no, let's keep suggesting ever more inventive ways to slap players' hands when they reach for the cookie jar that we parked directly on top of their character sheets.

The problem is never the items that the GM provides, but the fact that many, and likely most, players expect a magic mart around the corner. If wands of CLW and potions aren't in easy supply, and especially if you take away magic item crafting as a practical player option, it really is no issue at all.

Granted, this necessitates the group to have a dedicated support player, but I don't see that personally as a problem. The fact that only the cleric currently suffices in that role, however, is a bit awkward, especially since there seems to be a relatively common dislike among the younger gaming generation to play religious characters.

AndIMustMask wrote:

the end result being that if someone at the table wants to play merlin by the endgame, he should totally be able to--and the guy next to him should be just as able to play beowulf, or cu'chulainn, or diarmuid, or siegfried, or fergus mac roich, or finn mac cumhaill (i'm not even touching japanese/greek/roman or even other european history and mythology, which gets even crazier!), as he likes around the same level.

Well, part of the problem here is that Merlin falls well short in terms of the spells he casts of what a high-level PF caster manages (Polymorph Other, Flesh to Stone, some illusions that aren't higher than 3rd level, and possibly Teleport are the top end of his repertoire except for one particular feat). If he's a model for the caster, he's either a mid-level one or the nerf to magic is quite extreme. And if the top end martials are supposed to be equal to Merlin, and the top end casters exceed his power by as much as they currently do, then you've not really solved anything.

Actually, I'd be all in favour of a setting where only the most legendary of spellcasters can cast a 5th level spell, and where martials are on par with that. Maybe want to eliminate levels as such a hard power-up experience a bit, or create half-levels somehow, but as a general power gage, I'd be cool with it.

Granted, that is not what most PF and D&D players are likely to enjoy, but I bet I'm not alone in longing for some good old Fafhrd & the Grey Mouser, and similar, fantasy.

Leedwashere wrote:

You don't have to make it relevant across all player levels. You only have to make it relevant for its own (item) level, as a function of the others.

In the other thread I posted what those numbers would have to be to make that happen. It's not a hard calculation. It can be tweaked to be more or less generous (I decided to go with nice, round numbers past level 1), but as soon as the higher-level items become worse than the lower-level items in value, your incentive to buy them becomes an incentive not to buy them. (You don't want to die, so you still have an incentive you use them if you find them, but you're literally throwing your money away if you buy it.)

Except that when you lower the price of the higher level items to the price of the lower level items you haven't stopped the problem you've just packaged it in a higher level purchase.

The problem not be addressed is that if healing is going to remain remotely expensive (e.g. Making healing between fights a decision & not just a "Obviously we use all the consumables") you need to be able to set a price on healing which is actually relevant to the players. Health and gold scale at very different rates. Any price you can put on healing for a level 1 character will either be pocket-change to a level 10 character or completely unaffordable for the level 1 unless there's some other cost outside gold. Lowering the price of high level consumables to the same cost per HP or even lower just makes the price of healing even more inconsequential at high levels.

The idea of using resonance as a buff on the heal really doesn't seem to work to me, as if we maintain the current rough economic pricing the second highest potion (lvl 12) charges 4.8g per HP on average. Which is to say the designers while writing felt that was a fair price to keep healing a relevant expense at that level. To lower that to the non-resonance d4 option it has to be lowered to 1.2g per HP which is 1/4 the price... or 1/8th...

How about this one for a radical idea? Have using consumables cost xp! Not to craft them, mind you, but to consume. I bet that solves the problem right away, especially if you scale the cost with character level.

Granted, that may unduly punish frontliners, so perhaps some finagling needs to take place, but moving the cost away from gold, I feel, is the crux here.

gustavo iglesias wrote:

PossibleCabbage wrote:

thflame wrote:

I disagree. ANYTHING should be an appropriate option for a PC. (Maybe with level adjustment.)

I'm of the opinion that any ancestry which can literally only be a single alignment is inappropriate. Like Pathfinder canonically has more non-CE Succubi than non-CE Drow.

even if we assume that, a few things stand out

1) some people don't play in Golarion. It is easy to change drows background in your home world, but it is harder to build a race mechanically if you are not a game designer. Certainly I easier to pick up Paizo 's vision
.

2) being always evil is not a problem for evil campaigns. Which some people play.

Drow is an inmensily popular race, because of certain guy with 2 scimitar. It is wise to give people popular things

I mean it is.

BUT aren't you losing something when copying the guy with 2 scimitars that's a horrible outcast of his race that's fighting the good fight to help put things to right when and where he can going against the sins of his people....

And then said race is just as good to evil as humans?

I suppose you can swap race to "OH My Town/city/house/family is SO evil so I fight against that temptation!" but I feel the 2 scimitar man wouldn't have been so popular. Who knows.

To a lesser degree, you had the same thing happening with Minotaurs in the *Dragonlance* setting. Makes me wonder whether that is why that option was available under the future ancestries query.

magnuskn wrote:

The class survey resets to the first page after a few classes. You can go through the class pages again and your options have been noted, but when you get to the last page you already filled out, all your stuff is gone and it is a dice roll if the second time around it will take or you will get booted back again to the first page. I suffered through this from the Monk to the Ranger, but now I'm getting tired of going through dozens of pages only to get thrown back to the first one. Could this please get fixed ASAP?

That is very odd. We will look into the survey logic to see if there is a problem floating in there... otherwise we will have to kick this up to surveymonkey to fix. Can you tell us specifically where this happened and what occurred?

I had the same thing happen, as soon as I completed Paladin. Waiting did nothing, so after several minutes I gambled and hit refresh on my browser (Chrome), which progressed me with all data preserved to Ranger.

Went through some of the class surveys and I'm a bit disappointed. There were no options to say things like "All of the feats on this tier are boring"

There also wasn't an opportunity to comment on the Paladin's new role as a babysitter.

Personally, I love playing Guardian types, but it would have been so nice, had they actually been equipped with competent tools for the job. The Retributive Strike is *not* the answer (and if it is, I wonder what the question actually was). PF1 mercies were closer to doing an appropriate job than the PF2 ones, as well. I *do* enjoy the spell point approach, which feels flexible and encouraging in emphasizing choice in the class builds.

So... you spend a chunk of GP to heal small amounts of health if you can succeed at what is likely to be a fairly stiff DC on everyone's behalf?

I mean, it's gorgeously thematic, but the way 2E is being set up, you might as well just stop and rest for the day.

Why would the storyteller allow you to? It's not like it's remotely realistic to quit an endeavour after you've not even reached lunch. I'm not sure about you, but the people I play with would refuse such a ploy as being an immersion-killer, and so would GMs, much of the time.

The OP's post is irrelevant, frankly. It has nothing at all to do with the playtest (which they havenot participated in, by their own words!), but it's a genre discussion, and one with faulty premises at that. I suggest you take it to another forum, where it may have more merit.

We definitely want feedback on whether people think there's not enough setting info, or too much, or just enough. Setting aside a chapter (like we did in the Starfinder Core Rulebook) is possible, but adding a LOT more would be difficult, as we can't let this become a 600-page book.

Personally, I *love* detailed cultural info for my characters - but much of that can wait until there's books for the appropriate regions, ethnicities and/or political entities. In the meantime, it would be good to have 4 lines or so for each ethnicity - and please add ethnicities for non-human races, too, where they are widely-enough represented in the world. For instance, the Snow Elves are not common enough to warrant a section, but at least mentioning Kyonin and the Five Kings Mountains would be good.

Having said that, I would personally remove the Tian from the core book entirely. Reducing a third of the world to a oneliner about generic fantasy Asians is a massive disservice, and also opens the door uncomfortably for (accidental) racism. For the Vudrani, a mention that a kaleidoscope of subcultures exists elsewhere in the world will suffice, I suspect, since they *do* form a presence in the Inner Sea region to a much greater extend than the Tian.

MerlinCross wrote:

Crayon wrote:

Based upon the contents of the pdfs and certain comments by Bulhman and company, I believe the primary goal seems to be making a system that's easy to publish canned adventured for.

This isn't a bad target to be sure and may prove a lucrative model for Paizo, but isn't really what I'm looking for as a player or GM...

This is a worry I have. It looks great to publish stuff for or at least okay. It also seems pretty easy to maybe run PFS games in.

At home? ....eeeeeeeeehhhhhhh....*Waves hand a bit*.

I actually think this is a good selling point.

"Pathfinder 2 is kinda meh, isn't it?"
"Ya, but its good enough and there is tons of content for it!"

That seems like a reasonable outcome. I mean, every game system has snarls.

The problem is that they truly need to drastically out-content D&D 5th edition, which has a huge headstart, both for fanbase and content. I don't see a way for the PF1 content to be compatible with PF2 (at least not more than PF1 is with, say, 5th edition), so they'd start on the backfoot for sure.

A party of four sorcerers, two divine, two arcane is pretty powerful right now. Aside from being able to cover both arcane and divine casting, with 2nd level Fighter Dedication, 4th level Magical Striker and 8th level Fighter's Resiliency they can pretty much cover the important bases of an adventure party, with two divine sorcerers and two arcane sorcerers.

With the Divine Sorcerers wielding a shortbow, having a free hand except when attacking, they can cast two-action heal (heightened to any spell level needed) to heal an ally at range, and empower their single bow strike. If there's no one to heal, they can throw down banes and blesses, deepening crit ranges and padding ACs with -1 attack penalties. There's very little need for any other divine spells, since this is effectively a martial build that can heal, so they have, in effect, 4 heals at each spell level, per day, times two sorcerers of this build.

With the Arcane Sorcerers wielding a d12 weapon, casting True Strike (which is Verbal only, single action) then attacking with advantage. Either they have a high crit chance on one attack, or they're rolling an average between 13 and 14 on 2d20High, with an extra +1 bonus, practically overtaking the -5 Multi-attack penalty. In addition to True Strike, at second level spells they get Mirror Image, third level Haste and fourth level Weapon Storm.

That really only works if you like 5 minute working days. Good luck maintaining anything like that on your 5th encounter of the day - where the true warrior keeps on trucking. Well, once you add enough clerics, otherwise everyone's long dead by then, of course, but that's a whole different discussion.

Frozen Yakman wrote:

By modern standards, AD&D is poorly designed.

Yeah, but AD&D has character...character goes a long way...*said like Jules/Samuel Jackson in Pulp Fiction*

At least we get to make our character with cheese in the metric system, like they do in Paris!

Makarion wrote:

DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

I would like to see options for self-healing or recovery, something like the short rest mechanic would be great. Especially when Battle Medic takes such a high check to be effective, and only functions once a day.

Goodness, I hope this will never happen! As one of seemingly many healer fans (both in RPGs and MMOs), we do *not* want more self-healing, as it will convince people healers are pointless. Instead, can't we please get more pro-active abilities? Temp hits points (and significant amounts per action, please - at least as much as current heals of the same level), reaction-based AC or DR buffs, more support for Shield Other type playstyles, and so forth. Please?

Some different offensive-support tactics would be good, too. Maybe some ranged debuffs that target TAC, rather than saving throws?

I fully support self-healing/recovery if it's non-combat. It's not really fun to be blowing your limited resources out of combat. If they introduce such a thing, healers will still be super necessary for fighting the bbeg, or for any fight where people are rolling poorly/the GM is rolling well. And if they do actually gave them some reasonable buffs, then they definitely won't want to be forced to decide between using their resources on those (fun) vs saving them to use out of combat (not really fun but necessary when there are no alternatives).

Thing is, for many of us, those things *are* fun! As a dedicated healer, it feels awesome to know you carried the day. In fact, I wish more fights were attritional, rather than rocket tag.