Kitty Catoblepas's page

I'm wondering how many people who think the wand sharing trick is okay, would feel the same if the GM used the same loophole against the players.

As a GM, the difference in giving 50 NPCs one 50-charge wand and giving 50 NPCs fifty 1-charge wands is formation, action economy, Attacks of Opportunity, initiative, and a feeling of justification.

Kitty Catoblepas wrote:

I'm glad you could take the time to come back and completely miss the point. Or maybe miss 49 points.

But not 50 points. That would be a silly number of points to miss.

your point in itself was absurd. Of course the point between normal and absurd is not defined, but is a distinction made by the individual. I didn't think such really needed to be pointed out, but there you go.

I think it might be a good time to point out that we're on the rules section of a website that is devoted to a written ruleset of a game and you're accusing me of being absurd because I suggested that basing ad-hoc rulings on NO! may go over poorly to players when your values of NO! are based on whimsey.

Quote:

If it's fine for time to stop for 48 people while one person fits 6 seconds worth of actions in, but not fine for time to stop for 49 people, then that's an arbitrary distinction. If it's absurd for time to stop for a number of people depending on how the GM feels about the situation, then that's unplayable. That makes every player's action begin with, "Can I...?"

so you want a hard number? Fine, 3. No more than three people in a single turn can perform the kind of group action we're talking about. Or, maybe we can admit that not every situation is the same and that is the exact reason the GM is there, to decide what is best for the game, the story, the narrative, etc...?

I mean if you can't see a difference between one character picking up another character's item and using it in the same turn and 50 people playing the wand shuffle game, I just don't know what to tell you. I'll just take my catchy late 70's theme song and go...

Yeah, you're either missing the point or being willfully obtuse.

Set to 3? Good. Great, even. The point is that this is a house rule and surprising players with ad-hoc house isn't a fair thing to do. If you're GMing Pathfinder and are suddenly struck by an insatiable urge for realistic dropping rules that will fly in the face of other Pathfinder rules, then good for you. Put your dropping rules out on the table before you start your dropping-based campaign.

Besides that, when attempting something that is not clearly defined in the rules in which you might have a question, it's generally a good idea to start with "Can I..." if not, I imagine that kind of player is the kind that everyone else at the table actually really hates.

That's fine. But we're not talking about players attempting something that is not clearly defined in the rules. We're talking about players attempting something that is clearly defined in the rules, being told NO! and trying to infer the actual ruleset.

I have to admit, all this talk of politics is confusing me. I don't understand how cultural appropriation is political at all. I'm not talking about governmental policy or legislation. I'm talking about courtesy, human rights and open, honest communication.
I mean. Is it that things like cultural appropriation tend to be divided by political party lines, like global warming in the U.S.? I guess I could sort of understand but... "global warming" is not a political topic. It's a scientific/environmental one. Gun control and gay rights are political topics, but the morality of gun ownership or homosexuality are not.

I've seen "politics" used as a shorthand way of saying, "Touchy subjects that people may feel strongly about and are likely to make others uncomfortable or argumentative if you bring them up and have a high likelihood of completely derailing the task at hand, especially if you say something that someone feels is inaccurate."

So how is the concern that I may be taking some of the authenticity and accuracy away from a people's culture political?

I was thinking about this thread and accuracy depicting a culture, and it reminded me of this article about an anthropologist studying the Tiv people (and the Tiv people studying the anthropologist's culture through her). They ask her to tell a story, and she tries to tell Hamlet to them.

The article is from the 1960's, which I feel illustrates my point that things don't age well (she seems openly condescending to her audience in a way that feels uncomfortable through 2020's lens). I also feel that it illustrates the difficulty in portraying a different culture accurately, as other cultures are always seen through the lens of your own and it's hard to understand concepts that don't exist in your own culture. That is to say, we may get the "what" accurate, but will struggle with the "why" unless we've lived in the culture (or unless we were born into the culture).

So, if we're destined to get things wrong despite our best efforts (most probably offensively so, if we have a wide enough audience), what's our solution?

I mean, really? What is our solution if we're trying to create an inclusive gaming experience that isn't jarringly offensive?

The class lacks unique abilities. It doesn't match up to any other classes, and it's just not that interesting yet. It needs more.

I agree with this.

The class has 13 "dead levels" out of 20 and is really only marginally more powerful than the Warrior NPC class (if at all). You should have at least 13 more powers throughout the class so that players have incentive to take the next level in Adventurer.

Honestly, Trap Sense is a weak enough ability that you could add abilities on those levels, too.

If you're looking for ability suggestions, something to supplement torch use/fighting would be nice. Maybe improved Keros Oil firebreathing (improved damage, range, and/or area), improved attacks with simple and/or improvised weapons (or maybe just with the torch), more torch bonus feats, trap use as per Trapper Ranger (or maybe even access to some traps at level 1), weird (i.e. Su) detection abilities using your torch light, ability to impose Dazzle as part of an attack, inspire others with your torch-bearing moxy, etc.

In general, for any class to meaningfully contribute in the game, you're going to want to consider the following and how your class would accomplish these and react to these being imposed:

- A way to restrict the movement of enemies (wall)
- A way to inflict damage on enemies (fight)
- A way to circumvent obstacles and have mobility (move)
- A way to cover vast distances (travel)
- A way benefit your allies (buff)
- A way to disadvantage your enemies (debuff)
- A way to percieve dangers, enemies, and/or your surroundings (sense)

Remember to keep scale in mind, where high-level challenges require much different obstacles and much more damage to hamper them due to the number of resources they'll possess and where low-level challenges can be trivialized by certain abilities (like flight).

Another fun formula I like for culture-specific swears is (deity name)'s (body part) - it doesn't even have to be anything particularly inappropriate to work well. Desna's thumbs!

Yeah, blasphemy works really well when you have so many gods.

Pharasma's (Un)Holy Daggers! -- And if you mix in a little bit of Gadzooks or 'zounds, you can get something like Rasdag (also spelled Razdag), an abbreviation/bastardization of Pharasma's Daggers. You would use Holy Razdag for a pleasant surprise and Unholy Razdag to refer to something that is unpleasant. "Holy Razdag, am I glad to see you guys!" or "What the unholy Rasdag are you doing here? You're supposed to be keeping watch in the tower!" Also, "Razdag it!" as a suggestion that Pharasma stab something or someone with her (presumably unholy) dagger.

Three-eyed -- A reference to Lamashtu's holy symbol, most often referring to some rundown or foreboding place (a place where you would most likely see the symbol flying) or to the type of person who would lurk in such a place. Also three-looker to describe such a person. "I'm not going in that alley alone. I'm sure some three-looker's in there just waiting to put a knife in my back."

Zon hook 'em/you/me -- A reference to the god of pain and... well... his hooks. Often shortened to Hook 'em/you/me. "I'm gonna throw a fireball into the mix next round. If the guards can't get out of the fray by then, hook 'em."

Cal-slapped -- Suffering a beatdown or some misfortune, presumably as a result of one's own actions or misdeeds (as if suffering retribution at the hands of CalIstria). "After getting Cal-slapped so hard last time you charged in here, I didn't think I'd see you come back."

Sacred Suds -- Or simply suds. Having the guts or chutzpah to do something outlandish or risky. A reference to Cayden Cailean and his mythology's propensity to portray him drunk. "I didn't think you'd have the suds to face me alone, but here you are!"

The way we see things represented to us in media arts, including movies, tv, books, and roleplaying games, informs and shapes our views on ourselves and others, sometimes in very subconscious ways. Creative outlets like story-based, narrative games can contain all sorts of symbolism that acts as a mirror of how we see ourselves, the world around us, and all of the people who exist in it with us.

That's kind of the problem, though, even when we're trying to be "good" about potrayal of cultures that are not our own. The world has changed a lot, and consequently our fantasy RPGs are a reflection of the modern world, most often with a thin veneer of Western culture streched out over a 5000 year period, broken into pieces, and assembled into a fun, accessible mosaic. And adding other cultures seems only natural if you want to be more inclusionary and expand your RPG world.

But this turns into "defaultism" and "exoticism" where the improperly portrayed cultures in the base game come across as familiar, inviting, and fun and the faithfully portrayed cultures come across as rigid, alien, unfriendly or even wrong. Or worse, it turns cultures into designated enemies when the values of 500 or 1000 years ago clash with modern sensibilities, even when we're trying to be sensitive and avoid this very outcome.

My opinion which nobody asked for is that erring on the side of fun, accessible and modern is generally better than erring on the side of accurate-but-jarring, and that modern movies produced by the culture you're including are probably a better source to emulate than straight historical fact.

And I do agree that you should research at least enough to be able to identify a sensitive subject in a modern environment (and, indeed, your group of gamers).

Just to be clear: We've decided it's okay that Paizo uses printers based in China despite their human rights record because the guy with the bag icon shops at Wal-Mart?

Speaking of necromancied threads, over in Website Feedback there's one that's over fourteen years old.

That's a product review. Does that count?

What are you working with? Is the problem that you have a lack of magic that cures HP or is the problem a complete lack of a way to cope with statuses like Blindness, Petrification, Poison, Death, Fatigue, Intestinal Hedgehogs, etc? Are you mostly running from published adventures, or homebrewing the encounters? What classes do you have now, and what levels?

The proper choice is to postpone adventuring and devote your lives to rearing the goblin children. You will need to establish a homestead away from Sandpoint and other settlements in case the goblins aren't able to overcome their early learnings and resort again to violence. You must raise them as your own, hoping that that they take any and all of your teachings to heart, bucking the norms of their society and becoming their own people. Perhaps learning individuality will help them understand that what their forefathers did was wrong and allow them to become members of civilized society. Once they're adults, you can perform summary execution on the lot of them; they reach adulthood at 13.

But seriously, you should ask the GM what the tone of the game is. Any GM who uses morality traps is just asking the campaign to get derailed, especially if the campaign expects the players to partake in genocide without batting an eye.

By the rules of fiction, he's done for. The protagonists have defeated him. His threat is over. Now, if he's back as the henchman for a greater evil, that's another story...

If you want him to come back, he should be part of a bigger evil. Maybe he's stitched together, vomiting blood and warnings about his master (Juju Zombie template). Maybe he's been reanimated by fungus invading his corpse to benefit the colony (Fungal template). Maybe he made a deathbed deal with a greater power (Devilbound template).

The point is, if you want your old villain to server some sort of role in your new story, he's going to need to put over the new villain.

Have a target

If a fighter needs to survive past level 15, he needs to plan his feats a lot more carefully than he does if the campaign only goes to 8. Let your players know how far they need to go. If the fighter or rogue doesn't have to be competitive with high-level summons, they might not feel like they have to go full-tilt from the beginning to keep up with the curve.

Have a goal

Feats, skills, traits, and class features are all limited resources. If your players know which direction they need to focus, they will be able to move away from the "safe" choice of being better in combat.

Be skeptical
Some builds have an embarrassment of options. The Human wizard loves the finer things in life and keeps his Craft(Jewelry) and Appraise maxed out with a supporting trait, feat, and backstory? He can afford to do that much more than the Elven Archer can and may leverage those investments into breaking the game later on.

Be realistic

Not all classes are made equal. Some classes trivialize an encounter if they have the right spell prepared. Some classes are damn near useless in most situations until level 5. Wanting the Paladin to spend this level's skill point on Profession(Haberdasher) is a lot to ask for. Wanting your demihumans to buy their 8s into 10s will get you a lot of humans. Weak point buy creates more pets and fewer Magi or Monks. Etc.

* * *

In short, consider doing something to help the feat-hungry, skill-starved classes who inherently have fewer options. Maybe something like the Background Skills option from the Unchained book.

Note that using the Cook People hex is an evil act, but using the Swallow Whole ability of the Gingerbread Witch is not.

Maybe evil lies in the chewing. Or maybe the seasoning.

Maybe just make a ranged weapon version of throat slicer? That said, what should it be called?

Head Banger

To put this into a bit of perspective, a barbarian can rip your still beating heart from your chest and it will grow back in 1-4 days.

References:

Bloody Fist rage power ( https://aonprd.com/BarbarianRagePowers.aspx?Type=Offensive#ctl00_MainConten t_DataList3_ctl07_LabelName )
Ability Damage definition ( http://legacy.aonprd.com/coreRulebook/glossary.html#ability-score-damage-pe nalty-and-drain )

For anyone interested, I put together an ability cost estimation (since a "How do I into Lich" method was something I'd been meaning to work out for a while). Thought I'd toss the draft here

Let's look at mechanics...

The cost of becoming a lich is 2 levels (if you're counting its CR as level equivalents) and 120,000 gp. At level 15, this amounts to exactly half of your WBL. Remember that this is one hell of a sacrifice for your player to be making for his goal. He probably won't be able to attain his goal until he is a 13th level caster (Character level 15), so unless you're starting out at this level, he's going to feel the weakness of this process.

If you're set on 9 steps, then I'd suggest giving out the powers for each step. The powers are:

● DR 15/Bludgeoning and Magic
● Immunity to Cold
● Immunity to Electricity
● Touch attack dealing 1d8 negative damage and paralysis
● Fear aura
● Natural Armor
● Bonus to Perception, Sense Motive, and Stealth
● Undead creature type
● Darkvision 60'
● Immunity to mind-affecting effects
● Immunity to bleed, death effects, disease, paralysis, poison, sleep effects, and stunning
● Not subject to nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Constitution, Dexterity, and Strength), as well as to exhaustion and fatigue effects.
● Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).
● Rejuvenation (the big one)

If we divide these into chunks, we should be able to get small bonuses that our process can grant every step of the way.

● Darkvision 60'
● +2 racial bonus to Perception, Sense Motive, and Stealth (to +4, +8)
● +2 racial bonus to resist death effects, disease, paralysis, poison, sleep effects (to +4, +8, Immunity)
● +2 racial bonus to resist mind-effecting effects (to +4, +8, Immunity)
● 5 Cold and Electricity Resist (to 10, 20, Immunity)
● DR 2/Bludgeoning (to 5, 10, 15)
● Touch attack 1d8 + 1/2lvl (to add paralysis for 1d4+1 rounds 3/day)
● Light Fortification (to Moderate, Heavy)
● 2 Constitution drain that may not be overcome, cured, or prevented by any means (to 4 Con drain).
● Require less sleep per night (to requiring no sleep)

● Gain Undead Type
● True Lich -> Fear Aura, Full Paralyzing Touch, DR adds Magic (becomes 15/Bludgeoning and Magic)

The costs at each step can be divided (as a cumulative total):

1. 15k
2. 30k
3. 45k
4. 60k
5. 75k
6. 90k
7. 1lvl Become Undead
8. 120k
9. 2lvl Become proper Lich

... where steps 7 and 8 are particularly dangerous because you're Undead but do not yet have the Rejuvenation power.

Witch has a few culinary based hexes and archetypes.

Agree. I would like to point out the Gingerbread Witch archetype, especially.

Pastry summons, confectionary familiars, eating your enemies... I like it.

You could have a gummi tardigrade familiar

Giving the wizard PC WBL only increases CR by 1.

And as far as action economy, that is definitely where the party should lose. The wizard should be on his timeless demiplane, where he has summons. Summons which duration never ends. Imagine how many summons you can have when they never disappear. Imagine how many spells you can have active on you when they never end. Imagien how many trap spells you can have when they never end.

Not to...

That's kind of the problem, isn't it?

If you're going to use CheezeMagik, then there's no way that the PCs can actually do anything. It's actually pointless to try. As the DM, you don't even need a Wizard to accomplish this, actually; you can just design a dungeon with infinite traps, effects, and monsters. The Wizard is just the justification for doing so and feeling clever about it.

If you're going to encounter the Wizard's spells and traps without SpellCheese everywhere, then it is indistinguishable from a normal dungeon. There will be monsters, traps, and treasure. The Wizard has no reason to stick around.

If you're going to have them physically encounter the Wizard, then you're going to have to make him dumb. There's no reason that a Wizard of that level should ever involve himself in a fight with anything (especially not anything that has a chance of killing him).

I can only assume that the question refers to paragraph #3, since #1 is pointless and #2 is Business As Normal.

The most abusive form I've seen it take is repeated castings of Augury to bolean search things and figure out the best path forward. Of course how the wizard got augury is a question, but it's possible.

To be fair, the Cleric can do this as well. On top of this, the 14th level Cleric's WBL is actually higher than the 20th level Wizard NPC's suggested wealth (185,000 gp vs 159,000 gp; Multiply that by 7, and you're on the wrong end of that arms race as the Wizard).

Seems like these would be your limiting factors as the Wizard:

* 159,000 gp wealth limit (if this is ignored, it's a fight against GM fiat instead of a fight against a lvl20 NPC). Ring of Freedom of Movement costs 40,000gp. Gating in an Olethrodaemon costs 12,000gp. A Symbol of <X> costs up to 5000gp. That Orange Prism Ioun stone costs 30,000gp. It adds up quick

* Action economy. You may have around 9 creatures trying to attack you between your actions. Every action could be your last. Your summons, barriers, debuffs, etc. have to last through 9 creatures each round.

* Spell slots and order. You'll probably have 6 slots for levels 7, 8, and 9. Desirable spells compete for each other in these slots, especially if you know every action must count. Time Stop, Gate, Summon Monster IX, Disjunction, Quickened Dominate Person, Quickened Wall of Force all compete for the 9th level slots. Mind Blank, Quickened Black Tentacles, Quickened Dimension Door, Summon Monster VIII, Discern Location all compete for 8th level slots.

If they don't have true seeing, you can rain on their parade of blows by using Mirror Image or Displacement. You could make the Monk nearly useless with retaliatory effects like Fire Shield. You could be able to draw out the combat by making multiple weaker enemies who do not group together (since his style strike which allows him to move and make a full attack is one per round).

But the real solution starts with a question: How is the rest of the party contributing?

I'd often thought of taking the "Guns Everywhere" rules and turning them into "Crossbows Everywhere", with the Bolt Ace being the default Gunslinger build, "Crossbow Training" being granted at level 1, and the "Amateur Gunslinger" feat becoming "Amateur Bolt Ace"

What this would end up accomplishing is giving Dex-to-damage with a 1 level dip and having a feat that would grant a Grit pool, allowing the user to spend 1 point to target touch AC for the crossbow's first range increment.

You could always have your villain monologue with Perform(Oratory) in conjunction with Bardic Performance: Fascinate

My villain's monologue actually provided bonuses to his minions, he just stood behind a decent number of mooks and let them do the fighting.

...Or Inspire Competence

1, "IT WAS ALL A DREAM!" I don't really like this option, I think it cheapens death and makes failing meaningless.

I've promised myself that one day I will have a TPK and take the "IT WAS ALL A DREAM!" out. This will eventually fade into an "I don't think we survived that fight..." moment followed by an official, "Welcome to Hell. You're dead." speech. The major conflict/goals will shift to escaping the plane where they don't belong, finding a way to keep from losing themselves to the plane as Petitioners, finishing that last thing that they needed to do in life, and eventually retiring themselves to their proper places in the afterlife.

Maybe one day.

You could use existing items and describe them all creepy.

Examples:

A Varisian Tattoo (31,000gp) -- A piece of flesh carved off of a Varisian caster. May be attached to a spellcaster to give a +1 to caster level (as an Orange Prism Ioun stone) and allows the caster to use the Mage Hand cantrip at will

A complete set of Minor Shadow Piercings (19750gp) -- Tastelessly carved into shapes of demons dangling from the wearer's skin by various methods. These are sold as a set and include the following: Vrock (Suspension Piercing) -- Constant Feather Fall; Succubus and Incubus (Chest Piercing) -- +2 profane bonus on saves against effects that cause the dazed, nauseated, and sickened conditions; Many Larvae with their bodies twisted into spikes (Body Piercing) -- +2 competence bonus to CMD against grappling attempts; A septum piercing which is a tiny Glabrezu head connected by a pincer claw (Head Piercing) -- The wearer gains a +5 competence bonus on Intimidate checks; A whispy Shadow Demon eyebrow piercing (Eye Piercing) -- The wearer gains low-light vision. If the wearer already has low-light vision, the ability’s range is doubled

Also, there are some neat Fetishes (https://aonprd.com/MagicJujuFetishes.aspx) and Demonic Implants (https://aonprd.com/MagicDemonicImplants.aspx) to browse.

I made an excel at one point. I can stick this on my google drive when I get home if you'd like or if I'm not clear here. It looks accurate to me, but I haven't checked it in-depth.

You'll notice that some number of successes will be statistically impossible to be able to achieve, depending on your target number or the number of rolls. I started to make a crit-20/confirm section at one point, but I'm not going to include that.

I've rarely seen people actually enjoy puzzled when they were played straight (most end with "but you didn't say..." arguments). That being said, if you have your heart set on a puzzle you might be able to play it for comedy or subvert it, depending on your group...

Examples:

• *Puzzle solves for literally any solution --

  DM: "The inscription reads: 'This will only open when plunged to the depths of the waterless sea.' There is an inscription of a star and a moon on opposite sides and the sun on the top."

  Fighter: "I hit it with my Warhammer."

  DM: "A flag pops up to indicate a proper solution and the box springs open"

  Players: "???"

• *Puzzle solves for any technicality solving the problem --

  DM: "The inscription reads that in order for the box to open, it must be thrown into the sun"

  Player: "I throw it into the temple of the Sun God"
  Player: "I throw it outside into the sunlight"
  Player: "I draw a picture of the sun in the dirt and throw it into that"
  Player: "I throw it at the Dwarf. He's someone's son"

  DM: "The box opens"

• *Puzzle has a nonsense solution which is given after the incorrect answer --

  DM: "The sphinx refuses to let you pass until you have answered a riddle. 'What has four legs in the morning, two legs at midday and three legs in the evening?'

  Players (in unison): "Man!"

  DM (as sphinx): "'Wrong. A donkey'"

  Players: "A donkey?"

  Sphinx: "Yes, a donkey. You may not pass. Good day."

  Player: "Well, technically, we just had to answer the riddle to pass, not get it right..."

  Sphinx: "Oh, you cheeky @$#%!"
  

A dip into Master of Many Styles will net you a Style feat and the ability to have two Style feats active at once. Use this to have Ascetic Style and Panther Style active. Be a Cleric or Warpriest or Paladin of a Hammergod and take Crusader's Flurry. Provoke AOOs. Retaliate with AOOs.

ALT: Become large. Gain Longarm spell effect (or go Abyssal Bloodrager level 4).

ALT: Get a buddy to use Broken Wing Gambit, Improved Trip, or Improved Overrun.

I had a concept for a Varisian Pilgrim that did something similar to what you want. The archetype lets you use your domain powers on party members you have a morning group-prayer with as if they were you (at a range of 30'). The following deities seem like they would work the best:

Shelyn (Love and Luck)
Calistria (Trickery and Luck)
Arshea (Love and Liberation/Freedom)

Note that an Arshea group prayer may get awkward

Love lets you intervene when a party member is about to get hit, casting Sanctuary as an immediate action.

Luck (std action from you) lets the target roll d20 twice and take the most favorable result for the next round (but range improved to 30').

Liberation is Freedom of Movement against magical effects as an automatic action.

Freedom gives target another save against an ongoing effect as a standard action (but range improved to 30')

Trickery lets you give a target a single Mirror Image as a Move Action.

*****

The feat, War Blessing allows you to get two Warpriest Blessings (Charm and Luck, we'll say) and Channeled Blessing allows you to cast your Bessings at a distance at the cost of a Channel Energy usage. The Charm Blessing is like Santuary, but only breaks on the subject of the target's attack (not to anyone she doesn't attack).

*****

I only played this character once or twice. It seemed like it would get annoying for the DM (so I rebuilt) and had some range/LOS issues, but otherwise seemed to work okay. I picked Liberation, which trivialized one encounter (but didn't come up other than that). I probably would have gotten more mileage out of Luck.

*****

Maybe this is a good starting point for what you have in mind, to participate in combat (without fighting) and give a vibe of "peace"?

This part of that same entry could be used to justify that it's a move action if not readily accessible:

If your weapon or weapon-like object is stored in a pack or otherwise out of easy reach, treat this action as retrieving a stored item.

I'm not saying that you can't make up rules that do reasonable things like you've suggested.

I'm saying that RAW is silly.

Being evil does not imply committing evil acts. People may have genuinely evil thoughts towards others, and yet do not put those thoughts into practice because of legal or social consequences. An evil person not hurting those who he hates is not non-evil, just well adjusted into society (so, at most, non-chaotic). Other people are truly evil, and yet manifest it in more subtle ways that do not necessarily involve crimes or physical violence, but hate and psychological oppression.

This is pretty much the point of The Purge: the one day you lift obligations towards law and society, evil people are free to act according to their true alignment, this however doesn't mean that the rest of the year they are not evil anymore.

So yeah, someone could detect as super-evil: most probably if you put him on a desert island with a person he hates and give him legal immunity, he will probably torture the guy in any possible imaginable way, but until then he's an innocent and upstanding citizen.

And this is really where the arguments come from. If someone can't be Good when they're not willing to perform good actions, how can someone be Evil if they're not willing to perform evil actions?

If someone isn't willing to perform evil deeds even when there's no chance he'll be caught, how can he be considered Evil? He's just a Neutral person, going along with the least-resistance flow of society. Alternately, he's Lawful Neutral, rationalizing the need for and binding himself by a strongly enforced set of laws that prevent people from doing things that he would want to do.

People who are neutral with respect to good and evil have compunctions against killing the innocent, but may lack the commitment to make sacrifices to protect or help others.

Presumably, this also applies to evil.

After all, a person who has good thoughts and recreationally kills orphans can't be Good. Also, a person who doesn't feel devoted to the concepts of Good and Evil, but likes the praise he gets from helping people (and does so at every chance he gets) can't stay Neutral.

I read this quandary and had been thinking about it. It occurs to me that if you have a group of mooks that hit only on a 20, you can aggregate their hit chances together into a single d20 roll, determining how many hit their mark by figuring probability.

For example:

If you have 8 Hobgoblin longbowmen firing at a PC with and AC of 23 or higher, they would each individually have to roll a 20 to hit. A few computations show us that roughly 65% of the time all will miss, 30% one will hit, 5% two will hit, and 0.5% of the time three will hit.

On the dice that translates to:

1-13: miss
14-19: 1d8 damage (1 hit)
20: 2d8 damage (2 hits)
20, 19-20 confirm: 3d8 damage (3 hits)

They're weak enough to consider one hit a kill (great cleave would be very effective and a fireball would wipe the lot). The downside is that you would have to keep track of a chart to figure out hit/damage probability as their numbers dwindle. Also, you'd have to keep track of each individual die as a separate attack for damage reduction or deflect arrows or the like.

For example:

4 longbowmen
1-16: miss
17-20: 1d8 damage (1 hit)
20, 15-20 confirm: 2d8 damage (2 hits)

24 longbowmen
1-6: miss
7-13: 1d8 damage (1 hit)
14-17: 2d8 damage (2 hits)
18-19: 3d8 damage (3 hits)
20: 4d8 damage (4 hits)
20, 18-20 confirm: 5d8 damage (5 hits)

Anyway, it's a thought.

Well, ok. Say you have some big elaborate dungeon. What keeps the pcs from just teleporting right to where the big bad is and skipping the whole dungeon?

One of the following might keep the PCs from just teleporting in:

1. Who and where are unknown qualities (and consequently finding those are major goals of the adventure).

2. The Big Bad hides behind a powerful henchman.

3. Killing the Big Bad doesn't resolve the goal of the adventure.

4. The Big Bad's hideout is somewhere fundamentally dangerous to the party in a way that isn't immediately evident upon viewing (no breathable air, negative energy floes, electrified floor, poisonous environment, etc.)

5. Confronting the Big Bad will set off a "bomb" that will cause some sort of disaster to occur. The PCs must diffuse this first.

6. The Big Bad has warded his area against teleportation.

7. The Big Bad has an active Contingency that teleports him away when someone teleports near him.

8. The Big Bad resides on his own demiplane.

9. The Big Bad requires some item or action to be performed in order to defeat him permanantly

10. The Big Bad has planned for this to occur (surely everyone has heard of this tactic by now) and all hell breaks loose once the PCs teleport in.

If you wish for more wishes, you deserve what you get.

The best case scenario is that you'll get a Noble Djinn teleported to you who says, "I'm willing and able to grant 3 wishes to you! Now, what I need from you first..."

For the normal/expected case scenario, you should probably have a backup character ready before you make that wish.

Both it and the planet would take 20d6 points of damage?

No need to murder catgirls to resolve this one.

As a small, dense object dropped from more than 150 feet up, it would do 4d6 points of damage (save for half).

Yqatuba wrote:

Would you expect evil guys to worship good deities then?

Yes! Yes I would.

All the evil deities out there, their parishioners are damned to the lower planes upon death. If you've no foresight whatsoever, or are desperate for some reason or other (If I knew that their was an afterlife I don't think that much of anything could faze me. Heck, I'd probably just run off and martyr myself at the Worldwound. No point sticking around on the Prime Material when by all counts Heaven is a nicer place.) than I can see someone damning themself for fleeting power while on the mortal coil.

But all the non-casters? What motive do they have for worshiping an evil god? They get nothing out of it! Much better to follow one of the goodly gods and hope that you get around to redeeming yourself before you bite it.

Let's say you're a goblin.

You can play nice-nice, live a peaceful life of helping and sharing, go to Heaven when you die, and live peaceful eternity of helping and sharing. Alternately, you can stay Neutral Evil, eventually turn into a Daemon (if you survive long enough in Abaddon as one of the Hunted), and devour souls. One of these options is more attractive to a goblin (and to evil people in general).

Worshiping an evil god, then, fills the same purpose as worshiping a good god: You hope to find some favor with your god by advancing his/her/its goals, making your afterlife somewhat easier/better.

I agree that Lamashtu is the go-to for those who have lost their mind and want to become full-fledged monsters, but there is another class of people who would worship Lamashtu: Parents.

Lamashtu's Mark gives your children the "fiendish" template. If you live in a cruel, uncaring world where your children's only chance of survival is to be strong and feared, then Lamashtu provides something valuable (and probably a useful philosophy also).

While that certainly qualifies as "off your rocker" in the real world, it's closer to "slightly unhinged" in Golarion.

Remove prone with a mouse...
Remove pinned with a crowbar...
Remove stable with an icepick...

Fun can be had by all (with the possible exception of the patient).

Animate dead + the bloody template.

I came here to suggest this.

Also, here are some other options:

• - Disguise a horse as a dragon (it's easy if you pick a dragon that doesn't have ranks in Knowledge: Arcana or Knowledge: Nature, such as a Copper Dragon, who wouldn't be able to tell a Horse from a Dragon without the disguise). Play romantic music. Rear offspring. Repeat for each energy type you need your mount to have immunity to and pick the appropriate mount for the situation.

• - As above, but with a Giant Skunk, Buffalo, Elephant and/or Wooly Rhino. While all of these choices may not result in a stronger mount, they will keep you amused.

• - As above, but with a Dretch and the Half-Fiend template.

• - As above, but with a Celestial (I suggest an Agathion).

Better Adventuring Through Husbandry

Falling onto spikes specifically requires an attack roll, so is an attack, and deals damage as daggers in addition to the falling damage. The kinetic blast is a corner case, where we really do need an answer, it would probably be good to have an updated definition of damage reduction, perhaps that it affects piercing, slashing, or bludgeoning damage. The issue is that Energy Resistance tells you what it protects against, Damage Reduction tells you what it doesn't protect against.

On the PRD at least ( http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/coreRulebook/glossary.html#energy-resist ance ), Energy Resistance protects against energy damage suffered from an attack. So, you might be immune to being injured from a fireball, but not from a candle.

I don't know how optimal the Swan is, and I know the Chicken is sub-optimal, but dammit, have you seen either of them get mad? I can hardly think of more fitting war beasts for a barbarian.

You've obviously never run afoul of a peacock

Is there any 4 level or less dip that would be worth it, as long as it was combined with Boon Companion to keep the Swan up to speed?

Level 4 in Mad Dog Barbarian will allow your Swan to rage.

Primal Companion Hunter will add Evolutions for 1min/lvl. 3 levels of Divine Hunter will add the Celestial/Fiendish template.

2 levels of Eldritch Guardian Fighter will let your Chicken use your combat feats.

Would be better with a dozen rubber snakes and 1 real.

...And the real snake is a non-venomous colubrid while the others are venomous rubber snake golems.

I'm saying that when Hide From Undead affects the undead in question, it prevents them from seeing you, hearing you, smelling you, feeling the vibrations of your movement through the ground, feeling the vibrations of your movement in the air, or perceiving your displacement in some fluid (in most cases, air) according to spell text.

Hide From Undead prevents you from being perceived (but does not make you Invisible).

Glitterdust outlines Invisible creatures (which you are not under Hide From Undead) and makes them visible. It also covers you in dust. It does not specifically do the following:

1. Prevent you from being "you"
2. Cause imperceptible things to suddenly become perceptible.

If you want to rule that Glitterdust defeats Hide From Undead because "it's basically Invisibility" then that's a fine houserule. If you want to rule that anything the warded creature carries remains to be warded even after the creature drops it (horses should be able to carry about 100 gal of holy water, right?), then by all means do so. But that's not what the spells say that they do. You'll want to be upfront with your players about what these spells do in order to stop mid-adventure arguments.

I always keep in mind a fairly overlooked part of the detect spells: "Creatures with actively evil intents count as evil creatures for the purpose of this spell." Same for the other alignment detectors.

...

That evil vizier they just killed? He was lawful good and trying to counter the influence of the power hungry prince who's secretly pledged himself to Asmodeus. Mislead spell.

...

Finally, PCs scanning the tavern/townsquare/street with detect evil note a man who registers as evil. The man stares at another man some distance away. The first man is a grieving father fantasizing about revenge, the other a deceitful and murderous pimp with enough connections to avoid reprisal.

Keep in mind that this is actively evil intent and not evil thoughts as per spell description.

Man fantasizes about revenge killing? Does not detect evil.
Man is about to stab someone in kidney out of revenge? Detects evil.
Vizier wants to stop evil king? Does not detect evil.
Vizier is about to poison king? Detects evil.

The above examples assume that the targets are 5HD or greater

Also, remember the HD limit for Faint, Moderate, and Strong auras (especially for normals like those mentioned above, who must be 5 HD to register "faint", 11 HD to register "moderate", and 26 HD to register "strong". If some schmoe is registering Moderately Evil, then something is likely awry.

lemeres wrote:

wraithstrike wrote:

They run forever since they are immune to exhaustion and fatigue.

Well, realistically, they couldn't run 'forever'. But I'd likely just look at the rules for wagons and see if I could adapt them.

are there rules for wagons?

If I have a wagon being drawn by skeletal horses, is there something that says it can't just move forever?

It's an honest question, I don't remember seeing rules for vehicles and there being limits on how long they can travel. Just distances per day which I assumed were based purely on the vehicle's speed ratings.

Strangely, the Overland Movement Rules say that a skeletal horse can hustle/move forever unless it is being used as a mount, in which case it dies just like a normal mount (but doesn't become fatigued doing so).

Mounted Movement: A mount bearing a rider can move at a hustle. The damage it takes when doing so, however, is lethal damage, not nonlethal damage. The creature can also be ridden in a forced march, but its Constitution checks automatically fail, and the damage it takes is lethal damage. Mounts also become fatigued when they take any damage from hustling or forced marches.

Since the damage is lethal, undead mounts have no immunity or resistance to it.

If we assume a caster needs to generate the energy themselves, it takes about 10^21 J or 10^17 food calories to cast Wall of Iron at CL 11. We probably shouldn't be making this assumption.

After reading this, the sheer destructive potential of a Goodberry frightens me.

Zarius,

I'm glad that you've been enjoying the hobby for a while. I, and many other posters, have been enjoying the hobby since 1st Edition AD&D (and some even before that). In that time, I've seen a lot of DMs try to screw over players, either through technicalities or "hands are tied" literal rulings. I want to get across the point that technicalities swing both ways, and that rulings don't occur in a vacuum (consider a Kitsune Paladin sing Dominate Person to cause a king's chef to poison him because he isn't technically murdering or poisoning anyone).

I also understand that I am basing my opinion on this from the one line stating that a Paladin must "willingly" perform an evil act. But you should understand that you're basing your opinion on exactly zero lines that say that a Paladin should fall from unwillingly performing an evil act.

In short, surprise rules that run contrary of written rules that completely trash your character aren't fun and tend to cause havoc in a game.

If he didn't know about it and fell it was because:

1. He used poison
2. The DM houseruled or misruled him to fall.

Dominate Person/Monster for the easiest example. Suggestion can also be fenagled as can Charm spells with a passed Cha check (maybe).

Violating your code is an obviously self-destructive action and "obviously self-destructive actions are not carried out"as per Dominate Person.

Charm Person cannot make a person do something he/she would not ordinarily do.

Edit: Noting that Suggestion has similar verbage to Dominate person as to self-destructive actions.

What I want to know is why people expect Lawful Evil folk to twist the meaning of everything that anyone every tells them while at the same time expecting a Paladin to try to interpret his enemies' demands as favorably as possible. Paladins should act like a Lawful Good version of a Cleric of Asmodeus, considering what's at stake.

Wizard: Suggestion!: Your Lord is a traitor and you should attack him.
Paladin (to Lord): Your stance on poverty leaves much to be desired.
Wizard: No, I mean with your sword.
Paladin: You didn't say that, now did you?