Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber. Pathfinder Society GM. Starfinder Society GM. 31 posts. 1 review. No lists. No wishlists. 52 Organized Play characters.
Is the Core Deities list from Starfinder at all relevant to this? While I suppose anything is on the table, it does seem like it would be odd to kill a deity who is alive somewhere in this setting's future...
From LO Character Guide,
the Arcane & Ornate Tattoo Human Feats both depend on spell schools. Arcane Tattoo seems like it would be functional but is borderline.
From LO Pathfinder Society Guide,
the Dweomercat Cub familiar has a similar dependency on being targeted by spells of specific schools.
I'm not sure where else to post this, but I've noticed a few things that seem to have been missed in being retired.
I checked the Pathfinder FAQ and Character Options and couldn't find them in either place, but it's possible I missed something..
From LO Character Guide, the Arcane & Ornate Tattoo Human Feats both depend on spell schools. Arcane Tattoo seems like it would be functional but is borderline.
From LO Pathfinder Society Guide, the Dweomercat Cub familiar has a similar dependency on being targeted by spells of specific schools.
I have a character with the Discarded Fleshwarp heritage. What effect does that have now?
Discarded Heritage wrote:
The biomancers and mutagenists who warped your form labeled you a “discard on discovery”—a euphemism for destroying you on sight. An anomaly among anomalies, your body stubbornly repudiates the efforts of fleshcrafters seeking to mold you to their grandiose visions, and your immune responses blunt the worst effects of unwanted fleshwarping attempts. If you roll a success on a saving throw against a transmutation effect, you get a critical success instead.
My suggestion is that it should work against effects with the Morph or Polymorph traits.
(For reference, the Dwarf heritage that did the same thing against necromancy effects, Death Warden Dwarf, now works against things with the Void trait, or created by the undead.)
That's probably what we need, though I imagine the guide will have to say something like "Any time you see 'transmutation', use traits X Y Z', etc... or people will lose their minds.
Options in the Core Rulebook, the Pathfinder Bestiary (Second Edition), and Lost Omens: World Guide are considered always available resources regardless of ownership.
Always available is not same as ownership.
Having the rest of the paragraph would probably help, but he's right regardless when taking the final sentence as an override to the first. Seems silly to be arguing about this - of course they'll be the same ownership-optional as the Core Rulebook.
Quote:
Players may use any Paizo published books or supplements they own during character creation, provided the options are valid per the Character Options document, Players residing in the same household may share owned resources. Options in the Core Rulebook, the Pathfinder Bestiary (Second Edition), and Lost Omens: World Guide are considered always available resources regardless of ownership.
From the Character Options page under "Lost Omens: Pathfinder Society Guide:
Quote:
As stated in the section introduction, all characters have access to the magic items in the Magic Items section on page 117, as well as the items, familiars and spells on pages 120-121.
So no boon is required, but owning the book (in physical or PDF form) is.
Agree. There's this weird split where we have access to all of the Stones in the PFS Guide but none of the stones in the Core Rulebook. I'm not sure why that is, but there's a boon for the CRB ones so it's not that big of a deal.
The OP and I have different ideas of what us "super powerful."
Anyhow, if a subset of scenarios become known for requiring purchases (i.e., you're instructed to buy the must-have-to-even-play thing in the briefing), a subset of the population is going to actively avoid it. That's different than warning people they'll face a white dragon and giving them time to buy energy resistance.
Am I just an outlier here then? Half my characters have scrolls of those things - Resist Energy, Faerie Fire/See Invisibility, Dispel Magic, etc. By the time you really /need/ them, those costs are negligible to your budget but when you need them, you need them, and you don't have time to go back to the commissary.
There's a big difference between 'teaching' situations with consumables in 1-4's and that sort of thing in a 5-8 for example. You want new players to learn that things exist and consumables can/should be considered in budgeting.
By level 6 tho, you're 15-20 scenarios in and should have learned what to do and what not to do and shouldn't be expecting convenient consumables.
Just read the Multilingual feat - what it says on page 65 is explanation, but not the feat's actual function:
Multilingual wrote:
You easily pick up new languages. You learn two new languages, chosen from common languages, uncommon languages, and any others you have access to. You learn an additional language if you are or become a master in Society and again if you are or become legendary.
The feat itself just says "uncommon languages". no books specified, no tables referenced. This is the same common-isn't-common-unless-its-in-the-listed-books problem that isn't actually a problem.
All of that said, Azlanti, specifically is a (Rare) language. If you check AoN, you can see that the monsters referencing the language are listed as being from Bestiary 3, which has Azlanti listed as (rare), along with a few others, on the table on page 311. So you can't choose it with Multilingual. The only other references are a monster and an npc in two volumes of Age of Ashes, neither of which mention rarity. Unfortunately, I think AoN is just wrong in this case.
Good grief... we're creating problems where we don't have or need problems.
The Witch and the Magus don't need clarification because they say
Witch wrote:
You choose these spells from the common spells of the tradition determined by your patron or from other spells of that tradition you gain access to.
Each time you gain a level, your patron teaches your familiar two new spells of any level you can cast, chosen from common spells of your tradition or others you gain access to. Feats can also grant your familiar additional spells.
Magus wrote:
You choose these from the common spells on the arcane spell list or from other arcane spells you gain access to.
The whole problem was that Cleric, Druid, and Wizard had 'in this book' in their respective spells section and people got all bent out of shape trying to define what the 'access' definition meant.
The reason I didn't include it as a quoted text was because it's not directly searchable or selectable as it is part of their image on the page.. why a table is an image instead of, well, a table I don't know.
Also, if Common rarity means not needing to gain access would that not also mean Learn a Spell is moot as it simply gives you access. If you don't NEED to gain access then gaining access is unnecessary by definition. But that, I think, is moot as my link points directly to the image in which it states verbatim: Your character has access to this option.
The magus just says: You choose these from the common spells on the arcane spell list or from other arcane spells you gain access to.
The summoner says the same thing: You choose these from the common spells from the tradition corresponding to your eidolon, or from other spells from that tradition to which you have access.
Oracle and Witch in the APG are similar. The restriction is Common Spells.
That text combined with the transitive chain of access/commonality regarding Cleric/Druid STRONGLY suggests that the interpretation we have now regarding paying to Learn A Spell for Common Divine spells with Divine Casters is the wrong interpretation. We now have a second non-CRB sourcebook with Common classes that have access to Common spells across all books. For CRB classes to be treated differently is nonsense.
This order is also seeing transaction declined for two cards that I know work elsewhere with the same information, one of which worked earlier today on Paizo for a non-subscription purchase.
Do I need to do anything? I've seen a number of other orders with similar problems today and want to make sure it's being taken care of.
I know that they're at Gencon and Gencon is Hybrid this year. Will that mean that we should expect that there will be some online tables of those events or will they only be held at Indianapolis?
I wouldn't advocate for any book to automatically be sanctioned; but I would like Bestiary 2 to be reviewed for sanctioning. It would be nice to see some of the summon lists have more options; or any options. For example summon fey at spell level 3 can summon fey up to level 2, but there are no level 2 fey in Bestiary 1. If Bestiary 2 was sanctioned then there would be two level 2 fey that could be summoned at that spell level.
Agree. I don't mean that we should necessarily take every Bestiary as 'everything is allowed', but I haven't seen any mention of Bestiary 2 being under review at all and there's quite a few Summon spells that are questionably functional right now because of lack of options when we're constrained to Bestiary 1.
My 9 year old daughter would like to put in a personal plea to have Bestiary 2 sanctioned. She keeps trying to conjure Giant Bugs, only to discover they are all B2. She is currently consoling herself with Vomit Swarm.
Seconding a request for a look at Bestiary 2.
Things like Summon Elemental has dead levels (Heightened 3rd), for example where every new option is Bestiary 2, and other spells are missing obvious staples like Hound Archon from Summon Celestial, just because of which book they fall into. Given that these spells are much better tuned than PF1, it seems like a pretty rough oversight to not be considering additional Bestiaries as available for Summons.
Which forum is the appropriate one? Since it seems like other than Jared's defense (as a down-level volunteer) we've essentially been met with radio silence from OPM and anyone else actually employed by Paizo who could provide even the smallest bit of clarity to this conversation.
That's the irritating part for me. Not that the ruling came in an otherwise unrelated blog post when it should've been in the Character Options blog (though that's still irritating).
That someone came in and dropped a bomb in everyone's lap, then when called out on it, said 'I guess I can look into it.' and then disappeared for a month while this thing festered and got out of hand.
This strikes me as an offhanded comment by someone who didn't understand the context of the question.
And it /still/ doesn't answer the disparity between CRB classes and APG (and presumably future classes in other books). The Witch and Oracle have no such limitations on having to buy access to Common spells in the APG. It makes no sense that CRB classes would have that limitation on Common spells. They're common for a reason.
Wait, so to learn a non-Core common spell you still need to pay gold? I feel like I’m missing some of the nuance of that whole thing, but isn’t the common trait supposed to mean that it’s available to anyone? So a 1st level Occult witch could get summon instrument for free (because 10 free cantrips at level 1), but a cleric would have to pay 2 gp AND make a check to be able to prepare it?
It's a subtle few words added to Clerics and Druids in the Core Rulebook. I missed it myself when I first started playing 2nd edition.
Divine Spellcasting wrote:
At 1st level, you can prepare two 1st-level spells and five cantrips each morning from the common spells on the divine spell list in this book (page 309) or from other divine spells to which you gain access.
Emphasis mine. Since Wizards and Witches have to pay gold to learn spells beyond what they start with, this still leaves Clerics and Druids better-off, since they automatically know all common spells from the CRB, but to get access to the ones in other books, they're now a bit closer to the rest of the prepared casters in the game, financially.
I take a slightly different view. Bolded for emphasis. You'd have access to the spells in the APG because their rarity is Common. Nothing changes in this regard, though the sentence can certainly be read in a more restrictive way.
That's what I've been doing for Online play where I'm on my desktop and it works pretty well, but managing two PDFs works less well in person when you're using an iPad or something like that where changing PDFs will lose your place in the old one.
Is there going to be a cutoff for GM's working towards their 5th Star in Pathfinder 1E? I know of more than a few people who are pretty close but might not make it by the time Pathfinder Society 2E launches, and it'd be nice to know that either the requirements would change or that some attention would still be given to the 1E GMs getting their Specials and 150 games in even after 2E goes full steam.
Why not? I live in Delaware and was planning to drive in. I don't drive to Philly regularly, so is there something I don't know that would make this a bad idea, like no available parking? I was prepared to give myself time for traffic, but is it worse than I'm imagining?
I'm a PA/NJ resident and work around and in the city from time to time. Parking in center city is either exceptionally expensive or a hassle to find depending on the time of day. Don't be surprised with a $30-$40/day fee there in certain areas.
I second the PATCO to 8th & Market, or Broad Street Line to Race/Vine from somewhere north or south of city hall. There's a little bit of a walk, but it's pretty short. One thing to remember is PATCO stops going eastbound after a little before midnight, so you might get stuck if you use that if you're there too late.
A scroll of Inspiring Recovery (Healers Handbook) is 1650gp and basically the replacement for a scroll of Breath of Life.
It's a 6th level spell so should heal 5d8 - you don't get the +9 from caster levels that you get with Breath of Life, but it's CL 11 to start and has a Medium range.
Why is it caster level 11?
It comes from the cleric list, and clerics get 6th level spells at level 11, yes?
A scroll of Inspiring Recovery (Healers Handbook) is 1650gp and basically the replacement for a scroll of Breath of Life.
It's a 6th level spell so should heal 5d8 - you don't get the +9 from caster levels that you get with Breath of Life, but it's CL 11 to start and has a Medium range.
There is exactly one ability (at level 11) that requires Charisma for the DC. Only the Zealot even has CHA as a casting stat.
My same Avenger example from level 1 above is going to be hard pressed to consider investing more than a 14, and even that is iffy, in Charisma for PFS.
I'd look for more reasons to encourage all four archetypes to seriously consider Charisma other than for Skills.
*) Use Charisma for the Warlock somehow - maybe not as the primary casting stat, but for the variable in a number of Talents perhaps. Maybe add some Talents that function like Arcanist exploits.
*) Consider having a General pool of Talents that all archetypes can select from. Things that let you use Charisma for alternative skill sets. Maybe one Talent to apply CHA to Sleight of Hand, Stealth, and Sense Motive. One for some Knowledge skills. Hell I'd even be stoked to see one to use CHA for your bonus HP instead of CON. Would be something unique but not completely broken.
*) For the Martial Classes, Talents that utilize CHA and aren't necessarily just Bonus Feats plus something. Maybe CHA to Damage with certain types of attacks. Maybe CHA to CMB checks of varying types.
Most of the above is just brainstorming, I'm looking for ways to make this stat interesting to the Vigilante both in Social and Vigilante 'roles'.
I didn't get a chance to join these guys in this playtest but I ran into similar concerns when trying to build an Avenger to join.
All of the archetypes feel like strictly worse versions of their base classes at level one. I'm assuming it gets better as you level up, but that first level is going to be PAINFUL. And god forbid your whole party is this class, which seems to be at least partially the intent.
Some specifics: I went to make an Avenger and one of the things that jumped out at me from reading the Talents was a Grapple/Maneuver master. As a Human Avenger, you have two Feats at level one. You don't want to take Improved Unarmed - you can get it as a Talent at 2. There's quite a few Talents in here that are the starting point of Feat Trees that you've got to wait until 2 to even start, and that's frustrating for people.
I think this class in the mid tier is solid - levels 6-15 or so look like they're going to be reasonable, but it needs serious help at the early levels and I think the obvious solution is that Vigilante Talent get moved either to a 1/3/5/7... progression, or be like Fighter bonus feats and be 1/2/4/6/... I don't think you have to worry about people multiclassing as most of these Talents aren't front-loaded. A number of them take until 6 to power up into the "better than a feat" option, but a lot of them are necessary at 1 to really get a reasonable theme going.
As it stands, if I were to play an Avenger in PFS, I'd be hard pressed not to just retrain my level 1 feat(s) as soon as I got at least one Vigilante Talent to start the Feat Trees with. Anything that involves a recommendation of "Just choose whatever at 1 and Retrain it after you get a Vigilante Talent" is really bad for that class. One more talent at level 1 isn't going to break this class, but it will make quality of life better for all four archetypes.
Race
AC 19 [T 15 FF 14] | CMB +9 | CMD 24 | HP 59/59 | Fort +7 | Ref +11 | Will +3 | Init +5 | Percep +10, Darkvision 90 ft
Gender
Female Half-Orc Slayer 7
Size
5 ft. 10 inches; 175 pounds
Age
16
Alignment
Chaotic Neutral
Languages
Common; Orcish
Strength
14
Dexterity
20
Constitution
12
Intelligence
10
Wisdom
10
Charisma
14
About Alessandra
Introduction:
“If I've got a flaw,” Alessandra said to herself while running full-tilt through the crowd “- apart from scrimshawing people's bones (which frankly I see as more of a character quirk) – it's that I tend to over-complicate things...”
The half-orc girl had been offered a tidy sum of gold by one of the local gangs to take out their rivals, and afterward had then had the idea of turning her erstwhile “employers” in to the City Watch for their bounty. Needless to say, it hadn't gone well – the Watch had blundered in and now Alessandra was being pursued by both the gang and the Watch sergeant, who was convinced that he had been tricked somehow.
“Hm.” Alessandra realised she was running toward a part of the city she rarely visited – the docks; she had grown up there and had few fond memories of the place. “On the other hand, perhaps this is a sign that I need to leave this dump behind me and move on.” The girl gave a wry, lop-sided smile at the sight of the nearest inn – the Formidably Maid.
“ok, ok, I'll take that as a sign; rub it in, why don't you,” she addressed whatever patron was Up There. Pushing her way through the crowd, she satisfied herself that she had indeed lost her pursuers before entering the tavern. She glanced ruefully at her purse – so much lost – but she had long ago learned that money may come and go, but mayhem lasts forever.
Sizing up the rest of the bar, she headed for one of the less repellent males and flashed her lop-sided grin: “Care to buy a girl a drink?”
In hindsight, Alessandra's first mistake that evening was to lose track of how many drinks the nice man with the apparently bottomless purse had bought her. Her second mistake was to put this down to the adrenalin rush from escaping both the Town Watch and the gang in the same day. Her third mistake was to talk too much:
"'S funny to be near the docks again - grew up here; they told me m'dad was a pirate - huge orc with a beard, they said. Famous, they said. I never met 'im. Can't remember 'is name. Oh 'nother drink, thanks - 's good stuff! Anyway, was saying ... "
The detached part of Alessandra's mind - the part that keeps an eye on and comments about what's going on; the part that Tor taught her to develop - tried desperately to get through to her; but the combination of the spiked drinks and the memories brought back by the smell of the nearby docks was just too overpowering.
"Y' don't say much, do you? 'S fine, 's a good trick - Tor taught me that, said if you keep quiet th'other person does th' talking - will tell you stuff you want to know. Who's Tor? No-one, he's dead. Just an ol' friend. Don't be sorry, wasn't your fault - if it was I'd've gutted you like ... like ... what's those things you gut? Like one of 'em anyway. Oh, 'nother drink. Cheers! No, don't know 'nyone here; mos' people I know're dead, the rest of 'em seem t' want me dead. Thass, thass, thass life though, isnit? Hey? Hey? Ever'thing breaks, evr'yone dies - 's easier to go with the flow than try and, and, stop it, y'know. More fun too. Just, y'know, en- enjoy life. Oh, 'nother drink, thass the spirit! ... Anyway, nice to, to, meet you, should probably get go - hey! ... Why's the ... room spinning - you put sumshing in my drinksh? I'll fixsh you, you little-"
The half-orc teenager slurred curses in a mixture of Orc and Common as she reached for her twin blades. Sadly, she seemed to have misplaced her hands; by the time she sorted out her co-ordination and grasped the sword-hilts, she had been hit several times on the back of the head. The last thing she remembers is a pair of strong arms lifting her - not unkindly - and carrying her out the tavern...
Background:
Alessandra is what is euphemistically known as a 'child of the streets': her mother was one of the many women who sell themselves at the docks for sailors' favours. Alessandra's mother always insisted that Alessandra's father was a famous orc pirate, but the name changed on each telling and Alessandra finally settled on "Orcbeard" as apparently (unusually for an orc) he had a great deal of facial hair.
When Alessandra was 11, her mother was beaten to death by a "client" - the girl brought herself visibly to the attention of her peers by tracking the man down and savagely cutting him apart (she still has a few bones of his in her collection). After this, some of the dockside gangs employed her as an enforcer (and occasional murderer) - she would doubtless have lived a short and violent life had they not one day sent her to collect a gambling debt from Torquin "Tor" Strathpride, one of the younger sons of the (minor) nobility.
Impressed by her direct approach, Tor instead offered to hire her on the spot as his assistant; while keeping him safe, he taught her some of the more subtle arts that she would never have learned in the docklands: forgery, fencing, card-sharping and (most importantly of all) how to dress so as not to look like a street urchin.
Alessandra has since that time stayed away from the docks, uncomfortable with the reminders of her former life - she has acquired a taste for nice things and comfort, but always with the knowledge that everything breaks, and everyone dies. Since Jored's death from a broken neck (he fell from a roof while making a getaway) 18 months ago, Alessandra has drifted through the city from one scheme to the next, until her final escapade resulted in pursuit from both a powerful gang and the City Watch (unfairly in her view). She still doesn't know whether her retreat back to the docks was deliberate choice on her part or just a memory, or just chance. The name of the tavern - the Formidably Maid - was just too enticing...
Not knowing either of her parents' last names, Alessandra tends to adopt a surname as required, but has defaulted to using Tor's last name as a way of remembering him - they were never lovers: this is a rare instance of sentimentality on her part. Whether his family would approve, she neither knows nor cares.
Appearance & Personality:
At 16 years old, Alessandra has the confidence of youth and the assurance that she knows it all. Her acquaintance with a younger son of the nobility has taught her a better way of speaking than the street lingo she grew up with, and she occasionally entertains herself by offering a detached, amused comment on her predicament, replete with subordinate clauses (and parenthetical statements).
In keeping with this detachment, she has a light-hearted contempt for most people but occasionally finds someone she respects. In her view, everything breaks, everyone dies, so you might as well go with the flow. Fundamentally chaotic, she enjoys creating mayhem and complexity for their own sake, but is prone to over-complicating things and thereby landing in further trouble. So far, she has been able to talk, threaten, or fight her way out of anything.
Not religious, but slightly superstitious, Alessandra follows no deity but occasionally thanks (or swears at) her "patron" while being unsure whether they exist or what their name might be. If she finds out about Besmara, she might be tempted to become a follower in due course.
At 5 ft. 10 inches tall, Alessandra looms over most of the women she knows (and some of the men), but is careful not to do so obviously; she often converses while kneeling down or squatting, in order not to appear out of the ordinary - unless of course she's trying to intimidate.
Her crooked smile is the result of many hours' practice in front of a mirror, training herself not to show her teeth and thereby give away her half-orc ancestry too obviously.
Her appearance changes depending on her whims: her coarse, black hair is frequently dyed with streaks of colour, or even bleached completely; and her long-sleeved garments and leggings tend to be dark hues of crimson, purple, or midnight blue, with the occasional pink scarf or belt sash thrown in for contrast.
The one colour she avoids wearing is green.
Alessandra carries a variety of items in her cloak and at her belt: in addition to the usual assortment of weapons and thieves' tools, she carries a small box of carving implements and spends her free time scrimshawing decorative patterns into bones (usually fingers, knuckles, toes) of assorted people she has collected over the years (where there has been time to 'harvest' them after the kill, of course - sometimes the need to run is more pressing).
Advancement choices:
Lvl 1: Slayer +1 hp
Lvl 2: Slayer +1 skill point
Lvl 3: Slayer +1 hp
Lvl 4: Slayer +1 hp
Lvl 5: Slayer +1 hp
Lvl 6: Slayer +1 hp
Lvl 7: Slayer +1 hp
Crunch:
Female Half-orc Slayer 7 CN Medium Humanoid (human, orc)
Age 16; Height 5 ft. 10 in. Weight 175 lbs.
Languages Common, Orc
Deity None
Init+5; Senses Perception +10, Darkvision 90 ft.
_________________
DEFENCE
_________________
AC 19, touch 15, flat-footed 14 (Dex +5, Armour +4)
hp 59
Fort +7, Ref +11, Will +3
_________________
OFFENCE
_________________
Speed 30 ft.
Melee +1 Cutlass +9/+4 (d6+4, 18-20 x2) OR +1 Cutlass +7/+2 (d6+3, 18-20 x2) AND +1 Shortsword +6 (d6+2, 19-20 x2)
Ranged +2 Composite (+2 Str) Longbow +12/+7 (d8+9) OR Longbow +10/+10/+5(d8+9)
PLUS Sneak Attack 2d6
_________________
STATISTICS
_________________
Str 14, Dex 20, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 14
BAB +7; CMB +9; CMD 24
_________________
SPECIAL ABILITIES
_________________
Acute Darkvision: Some half-orcs have exceptionally sharp darkvision, gaining darkvision 90 feet. This racial trait replaces orc ferocity.
City-Raised: Half-orcs with this trait know little of their orc ancestry and were raised among humans and other half-orcs in a large city. City-raised half-orcs are proficient with whips and longswords, and receive a +2 racial bonus on Knowledge (local) checks. This racial trait replaces weapon familiarity.
Intimidating: Half-orcs receive a +2 racial bonus on Intimidate checks due to their fearsome nature.
Studied Target: A slayer can study an opponent he can see as a move action. The slayer then gains a +1 bonus on Bluff, Knowledge, Perception, Sense Motive, and Survival checks attempted against that opponent, and a +1 bonus on weapon attack and damage rolls against it. The DCs of slayer class abilities against that opponent increase by 1. A slayer can only maintain these bonuses against one opponent at a time; these bonuses remain in effect until either the opponent is dead or the slayer studies a new target. At 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th levels, the bonuses on weapon attack, damage rolls, and skill checks and to slayer DCs against a studied target increase by 1. In addition, at each such interval, the slayer is able to maintain these bonuses against an additional studied target at the same time. The slayer may discard this connection to a studied target as a free action, allowing him to study another target in its place.
Track: A slayer adds 1/2 her level (minimum 1) to Survival skill checks made to follow tracks.
Pathfinder Society GM. Starfinder Society GM. 31 posts. 1 review. No lists. No wishlists. 52 Organized Play characters. 
