whats the strongest?


Advice


Good evening everyone just out of curiosity as the dm has forced our campaign to pathfinder 2 (which i am fine to give it a try, but a bit uspet with lack of choice we have, but no matter)

What is the strongest character you can build the, sort of character that can take on anything and walk out of it?

i am open to all ideas, have fun.


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Well, I’d start with 18 strength, since that’s as strong as you can get in character creation.


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Forced your game?
By lack of choice do you mean in character options or not being able to choose to stay with 1E.

Because if it is the latter then you kind of have to go with what the GM wants to run unless someone else steps up

As to "take on anything and walk out of it" - that is not how the game work in either edition. You are supposed to work as a party to get through challenges

What level are you playing at?

If you want survival ability then a Dwarf Barbarian at level 9 with the dwarf ancestry feat for bonus HP with Toughness and Die Hard will probably have the most HP, die only at dying 5 and have an easier time stabilizing

I think they will have 136 HP before CON per level is factored in and any bonus temp HP from Rage. So minimum will be 145 + 10 temp and that is with just 12 Con

They will also have damage resistance whilst raging

Living Monolith could make this crazier but will mean not taking Barbarian class feats an might not be allowed (uncommon and rare options)


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I don't get if you want a tanky character which can survive most of the situations or a destroyer.


I have gone the HP route for "tanky". And you should still be able to get 18 strength which is highest possible

There is also the AC route which would be shield based Champion or Fighter.

But the guidelines are not clear...


I am sorry Lanathar, I was questioning the TS ( I forget to add the quote and we both post in the same moment ).

I'd also suggest a shield based fighter or champion.

Probably i will be more champion oriented because as a tank I will feel more comfortable with better WILL/FORT than reflex.


Looking at rogue, I don't know that I want to play anything else.


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Strongest at what?

Best offense?

Best defense?

Best spell caster?

I'll assume it's either martial offense or defense.

The fighter using a shield is going to be one of the better offensive and defensive options. Offensively due to his higher weapon proficiency.


Pahmet Dwarf Monk, spend your first 8 feats on the 3 mountain style feats and 5 feats from the Living Monolith archetype, take toughness and mountain's toughness. You can end up with a Str of 22, a Wis/Con of 20, you'll have DR Physical, you match the champion for "highest AC in the game" and you absolutely refuse to die (your DC for dying checks is reduced by 4, and you only increase your dying condition on a critical failure.)

Grand Lodge

So if you're coming from 1e and you are starting in 2e, throw pretty much every mechanic from 1e out the window. 2e overhauled pretty much every mechanical aspect of the game.

Probably at the moment the highest damage output possible is through a greatpick-wielding fighter, a d12 weapon wielding titan barbarian, or a TWF+flurry edge ranger with agile weapons. all with 18 str at level 1.

Sorcerers and druids can output a fair bit of damage through their spells as well, but are limited (as all spellcasters are) by their spells/day.

Clerics are... well you're not playing a cleric if you're minmaxing for damage output.

Bards and rogues have a lot of utility and buffs/debuffs and can deal good damage. Rogues are really strong classes overall but the above mentioned martials will outpace their damage output.

Wizards are probably the best spellcasters as usual. They have incredible feats that allow them to potentially cast more spells/day than even a (19th level or lower) sorcerer. But damage output isn't your game if you're comparing most spellcasting with the above mentioned martial classes.

Champions and Monks have their strengths- You'll get a lot of utility from champs if your party works as a solid unit, and monks are unique and fun.

You want the most powerful build? That's a really loaded question, it even was one in PF1e too. Play what you want, each class has their strengths and weaknesses, and all can be powerful.


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Honestly thanks for the advice and I understand it was a loaded question I wrote it late last night after a very bad day I just wanted general information about what people had played in the system so thank you for the information


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Jokey the Unfunny Comedian wrote:
Well, I’d start with 18 strength, since that’s as strong as you can get in character creation.

Muscle wizard = best wizard.


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Artofregicide wrote:
Jokey the Unfunny Comedian wrote:
Well, I’d start with 18 strength, since that’s as strong as you can get in character creation.
Muscle wizard = best wizard.

I was thinking about a Muscle wizard with monk dedication, just to have the whirling throw to deal with enemies.

"I got close to their Wizard!"
"Bad choice, boy"


K1 wrote:
Artofregicide wrote:
Jokey the Unfunny Comedian wrote:
Well, I’d start with 18 strength, since that’s as strong as you can get in character creation.
Muscle wizard = best wizard.

I was thinking about a Muscle wizard with monk dedication, just to have the whirling throw to deal with enemies.

"I got close to their Wizard!"
"Bad choice, boy"

And I've just realized how I'm hoping to build Astrid Mountainer-Puncher, Dwarf Badass and owner of multiple PhD's...


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In Pathfinder 2, wizard grapples you.


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Not the alchemists.

Maybe once they release the first errata, but not at the moment.


Wizards are quite bad at the moment, unless you want to go for a blaster - although I'd recommend Sorcerer even there.

Arcane spelllist is at best not any better than any other spellist (I'd argue clear worse than Primal but whatever). You get a spell more than other casters, but you don't have any non-spell abilities and proficiencies worth mentioning, and you get maybe a spell extra.

If you want a caster, I'd go with Druid. If you want non-caster, all are great.


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Wizard bad? Arcane list is the best one with the only thing missing is healing and the thesis gives them versatility or power that others can't have.

Then the feats can make them the best counterspellers, have more spells per day than any other caster and even ignore some magical resistance.

They are not perfect but they are far from bad.


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Kyrone wrote:
Wizard bad?

And sorcerer the best? * scratches head* Even setting aside relative strengths, sorcerers have enough fiddly parts [Signature Spells, melee bloodline powers, ect] I'm not sure I'd suggest it as the first class to take out of the gate. A wizard with Spell Substitution is a lot more forgiving if you make some questionable spells picks.


Kyrone wrote:
Wizard bad? Arcane list is the best one with the only thing missing is healing and the thesis gives them versatility or power that others can't have.

Arcane list is hardly the best. Primal is better by far, including versatile.

Kyrone wrote:
Then the feats can make them the best counterspellers, have more spells per day than any other caster and even ignore some magical resistance.

They have a bit more spells per day, if you ignore all the special powers other classes get. There's only a few Focus powers that are really useful.

As for counterspelling, that's a very late benefit that costs the Wizards slots. Compare to Bards which are absolute beasts at defending against mental magics. Also, check out Arcane Countermeasures.

graystone wrote:
Kyrone wrote:
Wizard bad?
And sorcerer the best? * scratches head* Even setting aside relative strengths, sorcerers have enough fiddly parts [Signature Spells, melee bloodline powers, ect] I'm not sure I'd suggest it as the first class to take out of the gate. A wizard with Spell Substitution is a lot more forgiving if you make some questionable spells picks.

Sorcerers are fiddly, but they can avoid a lot of that by taking Arcane Evolution feat. Spell Substitution is only really useful if you a) have time, b) knowledge of what is coming, and c) have the spell in your spellbook. That last one is especially problematic.

Anyway, Imperial bloodline is quite great; the initial power is weak but the other two bloodline powers are great. Blood Magic is a bit meh, but can still come in handy.


NemoNoName wrote:
Sorcerers are fiddly, but they can avoid a lot of that by taking Arcane Evolution feat.

IMO, that feat makes them MORE fiddly: you have a book and you can pick a spell in it and it might give you new spell you can cast or another signature spell. That's more to keep track of and figure out for the day: ie fiddly.

NemoNoName wrote:
Spell Substitution is only really useful if you a) have time, b) knowledge of what is coming, and c) have the spell in your spellbook. That last one is especially problematic.

A: changes based on your table, but with repair and treat wounds on the same time table, it seems likely to happen in most.

B: Not really a factor in what I'm talking about. It's not knowing what's next but knowing what's not working. If spell x sounded awesome and you took it a few times and it turns out not to works like you thought, you can try a new spell. Or you have all mental spells prepared and it turns into an undead area.

C: this fixes itself in most games I've played. Enemy spellbooks and/or other players books [sorcerer, bard and wizards [and multiclass] might have them]. With arcana being a trained skill automatically and int based, borrow/learn spell isn't an issue most times.

Overall if the player isn't sure what spell to take for the day, IMO Spell Substitution lets you pick what spells you like and even off the wall niche spells are fine with a 10 min break where a sorcerer only has that option during prep and with an extra feat. For instance, water breathing might be something you didn't expect to need in an adventure but when you come to a flooded passage, with a small break, it's now castable.


A good choice for a strong character is a guisarme using fighter


citricking wrote:
A good choice for a strong character is a guisarme using fighter

Trade that guisarme for a flickmace and shield. ;)


graystone wrote:
citricking wrote:
A good choice for a strong character is a guisarme using fighter
Trade that guisarme for a flickmace and shield. ;)

I figure the reason you're using an guisarme is that you want to use your 3rd action to assurance trip.


PossibleCabbage wrote:
graystone wrote:
citricking wrote:
A good choice for a strong character is a guisarme using fighter
Trade that guisarme for a flickmace and shield. ;)
I figure the reason you're using an guisarme is that you want to use your 3rd action to assurance trip.

Since the OP never clarified what they wanted to be 'strongest' at, I think a reach d8 that allows for a raise shield/shield block is a viable alternative to 3 actions for attacking [you're spending extra feats either way].

My post was as an alternative option, not a critique on the option given by citricking. ;)


Sorry to interrupt, but ive been following this for about a day and I just looked at the arcane evolution feat. From what i gather, it essentially turns your sorcerer (or sorcerer dedicated other class) into a wizard - spellbook, prepared spells, and so on.

But if you want to do that, why would you not just be a wizard (or wizard dedicated other class)? Is it because you value Cha > Int for a specific character reason, or is there more to it?


Ikorus wrote:

Sorry to interrupt, but ive been following this for about a day and I just looked at the arcane evolution feat. From what i gather, it essentially turns your sorcerer (or sorcerer dedicated other class) into a wizard - spellbook, prepared spells, and so on.

But if you want to do that, why would you not just be a wizard (or wizard dedicated other class)? Is it because you value Cha > Int for a specific character reason, or is there more to it?

It only lets you change out one spell per day. So you still have all the rest of your spells known determined by your class (as well as your signature spells chosen). But it's a good way to have a bunch of situationally useful spells which don't need to be heightened available on a daily basis.

But generally "the reason to be one class instead of another" comes down to the class feats, even if the proficiencies are similar.


PossibleCabbage wrote:
Ikorus wrote:

Sorry to interrupt, but ive been following this for about a day and I just looked at the arcane evolution feat. From what i gather, it essentially turns your sorcerer (or sorcerer dedicated other class) into a wizard - spellbook, prepared spells, and so on.

But if you want to do that, why would you not just be a wizard (or wizard dedicated other class)? Is it because you value Cha > Int for a specific character reason, or is there more to it?

It only lets you change out one spell per day. So you still have all the rest of your spells known determined by your class (as well as your signature spells chosen). But it's a good way to have a bunch of situationally useful spells which don't need to be heightened available on a daily basis.

But generally "the reason to be one class instead of another" comes down to the class feats, even if the proficiencies are similar.

Personally, I'd say that has less to do with feats and more to do with which casting style you prefer. Spontaneous is much simpler once it is built, even with arcane evolution and signature spells. That vancian thing isn't intuitive to everyone.


A possible contender for most powerful build would be a greatsword fighter with power attack.

If allies can help with your accuracy (heroism, flanking, ect...), switch to a greatpick and become the crit-a-kill machine.

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